How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

meeeeh · 31-08-2020 09:41AM

irishblessing wrote: »

While that is all true, schools are also the place where 1 million children will be mixing and going back to their homes, during what the government has described as a very concerning time, a tipping point. That the virus is currently silently spreading and if we have to go on another mass lockdown where will the economy and your exchequer be then?

There needs to be a balance. There is no need for the schools to close. The government could have approached this using the brains Mike Ryan of WHO says we have against the virus, to outsmart it. I'm not so sure we have people in charge with smart brains. There should have been a blended/hybrid remote learning plan to reduce class sizes. They could have focused on connecting the country's wifi grid which is hopelessly behind schedule and they could have found solutions with chrome books and hot spots for those who need it. Other countries have done this, but its impossible for a very small island country? Please.

How do you know they didn't approach Mike Ryan. I actually remember Martin saying he was talking to him. You are deluding yourself you are smarter than all experts working in the country and internationally (European centre for prevention... and WHO) just because something you don't agree with is going ahead. It's the height of pompous arrogance. Tell me how many times did you speak to Mike Ryan that you know government or other health advisors didn't speak to him?

meeeeh · 31-08-2020 09:45AM

Anyway mine went to school today. They were hopping of the wall with excitement and there was no scrum at the gate. Everything went smoothly. I'm delighted for them and not one bit worried for them.

Boggles · 31-08-2020 09:49AM

meeeeh wrote: »

You are deluding yourself you are smarter than all experts working in the country and internationally (European centre for prevention... and WHO) just because something you don't agree with is going ahead. It's the height of pompous arrogance.

You do realize the scenario that poster is outlining is probably the most plausible route going forward?

Or do you think if there is wide spread community transmission in the next few months, the schools will just remain open, business as usual?

Ranting and raving about experts, etc is one thing. But you need to climb a bit down from your narrative, take a step or 2 back and apply a small bit of commons sense to the situation.

No real expertise needed.

31-08-2020 09:54AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

There won't be another lockdown, we wouldn't have had a first one if we didn't have unchecked spread in health care settings. That's not going to happen again.

Ha ha, the indifference to this virus from you is astounding. The lockdown was essential, it should never have been lifted and by now we might have zero cases in the country (if coupled with closing airports and ports etc).

I would advice you to keep your money in your pocket too if you were thinking of betting on there being no more lockdown as it is a very real possibility if we see a surge in the coming weeks and rightly so.

Jim Root · 31-08-2020 09:57AM

i've been a vocal critic of the educational response during the first lockdown but I must say it was a very well executed staggered drop off this morning at our school, its clear the teachers did a good prep and thinking when devising the set up. Great to see.

seamus · 31-08-2020 09:58AM

pwurple wrote: »

There's a whiff of privilege off that post. I'm alright Jack is it?

I'm sure if you have mamai sa chistin agus dad on fulltime work-from-home, with fibre broadband and shopping delivered, you're fine with school open or closed.

If you're in a deis area, where the children were being FED actual food at school, it's a different story.

If your family relies on social supports (IE school is the only place they are not hopped off the wall), you're in trouble.

This is exactly the conversation I had with someone on Twitter the other night.

His argument was that he was skipped forward a year in school and some of his peers had to do fourth year where he didn't, and these two "missing years" didn't affect him at all.

What's being missed is that it's not about the actual year of education being missed. Any school year can be caught up on academically in a few weeks. It's the fact that the children exist for that year. And are growing up for that year. You can pause or skip a school curriculum. You cannot pause or skip an actual year of life.

If nobody goes back to school, then you have a year where large swathes of children are sitting on their arses watching 8 hours of screens a day. Or worse, where they're left to fend for themselves because one or both parents are too drunk to deal with them today.

A year out of school means that thousands of children over the age of ten will simply never return to school. They will become involved in local petty crime, drugs and alcohol abuse. And they will die, early, needless deaths.

No matter what route we take here, there are sacrifices. Keeping schools closed would be sacrificing the futures of thousands of at-risk kids to save the rest of us from having to make some very simple changes to how we meet and mix with others.

meeeeh · 31-08-2020 10:00AM

Boggles wrote: »

You do realize the scenario that poster is outlining is probably the most plausible route going forward?

Or do you think if there is wide spread community transmission in the next few months, the schools will just remain open, business as usual?

Ranting and raving about experts, etc is one thing. But you need to climb a bit down from your narrative, take a step or 2 back and apply a small bit of commons sense to the situation.

No real expertise needed.

Exactly I should follow your crystal ball not expertise that thinks children will more damaged by lack of school than Covid. No Expertise needed indeed.

Boggles · 31-08-2020 10:06AM

meeeeh wrote: »

Exactly I should follow your crystal ball not expertise that thinks children will more damaged by lack of school than Covid. No Expertise needed indeed.

No one claimed that, nice strawman.

Again, like I said if you could apply a bit less nonsensical emotion and a bit more common sense you'd be far better equipped to understand the situation and any potential ongoing reactions that may need to be made into the future.

Our own government have alluded to it, Scotland have actually planned for it and New York are doing it.

meeeeh · 31-08-2020 10:29AM

Boggles wrote: »

No one claimed that, nice strawman.

Again, like I said if you could apply a bit less nonsensical emotion and a bit more common sense you'd be far better equipped to understand the situation and any potential ongoing reactions that may need to be made into the future.

Our own government have alluded to it, Scotland have actually planned for it and New York are doing it.

Ireland is extremely sparesly populated country and Internet can't be supplied overnight. I live in one of the areas where apparently wi-fi will just magic itself. We do have workable Internet but that's due to a good bit of investment into equipment and my husband's ability. Week off week on is not workable because the Internet is not good enough and frankly no employer will tolerate working from home every second week for people who need to be on site. What if your plumber or electrician told you that they will be with you in weeks time when kids are back in school and in the meantime you can use candles and a bucket.

Some people here imagine there is magic money tree and we can just close society till this is over. We can't we must try to work with it and if that means some won't see parents for a while that is price worth paying to avoid lock down and leave schools and workplaces open (and I haven't seen my parents since February and don't know when I will see them next).

iamwhoiam · 31-08-2020 10:29AM

Jim Root wrote: »

i've been a vocal critic of the educational response during the first lockdown but I must say it was a very well executed staggered drop off this morning at our school, its clear the teachers did a good prep and thinking when devising the set up. Great to see.

Same with our school here . Teachers all very reassuring , lines well marked , children all in their lines and parents taking distance seriously . Delighted to see the happy little faces this morning

Non solum non ambulabit · 31-08-2020 10:35AM

meeeeh wrote: »

Anyway mine went to school today. They were hopping of the wall with excitement and there was no scrum at the gate. Everything went smoothly. I'm delighted for them and not one bit worried for them.

Same for my kids. Really great to see all the kids back and some sort of normality returning. The schools in my area have been excellent so well done to all the teachers and principals.

Boggles · 31-08-2020 10:37AM

meeeeh wrote: »

Ireland is extremely sparesly populated country and Internet can't be supplied overnight. I live in one of the areas where apparently wi-fi will just magic itself. We do have workable Internet but that's due to a good bit of investment into equipment and my husband's ability. Week off week on is not workable because the Internet is not good enough and frankly no employer will tolerate working from home every second week for people who need to be on site. What if your plumber or electrician told you that they will be with you in weeks time when kids are back in school and in the meantime you can use candles and a bucket.

Some people here imagine there is magic money tree and we can just close society till this is over. We can't we must try to work with it and if that means some won't see parents for a while that is price worth paying to avoid lock down and leave schools and workplaces open (and I haven't seen my parents since February and don't know when I will see them next).

Yes. Our chronic lack of investment and poor performance of service delivery will be highlighted beyond doubt during the pandemic.

Unfortunately the deadly pathogen doesn't give 2 fúcks.

It wants hosts, packed tightly inside.

Pretending otherwise is just pure emotion, not based on science or probably more worryingly not common sense.

The idea that 17 year old male 11 stone and 6 foot tall does not spread the virus to other humans or at most its "uncommon" but his 95 pound 5 foot 2 teacher does is la la land.

Keyzer · 31-08-2020 10:42AM

Adrianna Gigantic Moth wrote: »

The level of drama and exaggeration over “damaging children’s futures” is gone beyond a joke. They have missed a few months of school, big deal. If they missed another full year it would make feck all difference to their “future”. Honestly people need to get their priority’s straight. The entire country should have one target, eliminating covid-19 everything else can wait.

If people don’t like it well pity about them. Schools should not be opening, restaurants should not be open, the law making house parties criminal should have been pushed through, the guards should be doubling their efforts to stop gatherings etc etc.

Ridiculous comment.

There is zero chance of "eliminating Covid-19" - the fact that you're even posting a comment like this speaks volumes about your mentality.

Schools need to re-open, kids need to be back in a classroom learning. Yes, there are risks but its about managing risk appropriately and accordingly.

And if you think kids being out of school for the last 6 months hasn't done any harm to them, then you're talking absolute nonsense.

Keyzer · 31-08-2020 10:42AM

Test

irishblessing · 31-08-2020 10:44AM

meeeeh wrote: »

How do you know they didn't approach Mike Ryan. I actually remember Martin saying he was talking to him. You are deluding yourself you are smarter than all experts working in the country and internationally (European centre for prevention... and WHO) just because something you don't agree with is going ahead. It's the height of pompous arrogance. Tell me how many times did you speak to Mike Ryan that you know government or other health advisors didn't speak to him?

Ha, you think the politicians who are in power are there because they earned it or deserve it the most or are the most capable people who could run this country, or even the only people with eyes, a brain and have ideas? I'll be reporting your "pompous arrogance" comment, I'm entitled to my INFORMED opinion. Tough sh!t if you don't like it.

irishblessing · 31-08-2020 10:44AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

There won't be another lockdown, we wouldn't have had a first one if we didn't have unchecked spread in health care settings. That's not going to happen again.

Oooh, was there a nice sale on crystal balls this morning in Curry's? :pac:

irishblessing · 31-08-2020 10:51AM

seamus wrote: »

This is exactly the conversation I had with someone on Twitter the other night.

His argument was that he was skipped forward a year in school and some of his peers had to do fourth year where he didn't, and these two "missing years" didn't affect him at all.

What's being missed is that it's not about the actual year of education being missed. Any school year can be caught up on academically in a few weeks. It's the fact that the children exist for that year. And are growing up for that year. You can pause or skip a school curriculum. You cannot pause or skip an actual year of life.

If nobody goes back to school, then you have a year where large swathes of children are sitting on their arses watching 8 hours of screens a day. Or worse, where they're left to fend for themselves because one or both parents are too drunk to deal with them today.

A year out of school means that thousands of children over the age of ten will simply never return to school. They will become involved in local petty crime, drugs and alcohol abuse. And they will die, early, needless deaths.

No matter what route we take here, there are sacrifices. Keeping schools closed would be sacrificing the futures of thousands of at-risk kids to save the rest of us from having to make some very simple changes to how we meet and mix with others.

I wouldn't usually speak about my childhood on this forum, and I'm a very private person, but I decided to speak up about this anyway. Both my parents were alcoholics. My dad left when I was 14 and haven't seen him since. My mam was addicted to pain drugs and alcohol and left the year before I turned 18. I finished school living with a close friend's parents. I worked hard, graduated and went to University. I am now a successful adult with a loving family. Over the course of my life I have become friends with others from similar backgrounds and similar outcomes. Your post is simply not reality. I also know of others from school who had happy and loving homes and they have not done as well in life. Very blanket statement from yourself.

average_runner · 31-08-2020 10:55AM

irishblessing wrote: »

Oooh, was there a nice sale on crystal balls this morning in Curry's? :pac:

There is no reason for a national lockdown unless deaths start to happening. At the moment it looks like a new mutated strain that is weaker.
All stats in Europe show this so far.

average_runner · 31-08-2020 10:57AM

How can you get it down to zero when people can travel and we busy ports.

Lockdown was effective but won't happen again unless deaths increase.

Systems are in place now, people working from home etc

Locotastic · 31-08-2020 11:02AM

Boggles wrote: »

Unfortunately the deadly pathogen doesn't give 2 fúcks.

Deadly pathogen? Even scientists are saying its deadlines has been way over estimated.

The huge number of undiagnosed and asymptomatic cases means the CFR is still being debated but is likely a lot lower than previous estimates.

The risk of dying from it varies considerably depending on age, ethnicity, access to healthcare and underlying health conditions.

Blondini · 31-08-2020 11:02AM

I can sense a lot of the usual polemic posters here this morning looking for reassurance that "everything is going to be okay".

Fingers crossed.

Boggles · 31-08-2020 11:03AM

average_runner wrote: »

There is no reason for a national lockdown unless deaths start to happening. At the moment it looks like a new mutated strain that is weaker.
All stats in Europe show this so far.

National restrictions will be applied if there is exponential growth in clusters and community transmission, that is a fact.

The only thing we don't know is, what are numbers and the corresponding set of circumstances and what will those restrictions look like.

As for the virus mutating to a less deadly strain, there is absolutely no scientific evidence based study that confirms this. Zero.

Sporadic anecdotal stories and people misunderstanding profiles and trends is not evidence.

Boggles · 31-08-2020 11:04AM

Locotastic wrote: »

Deadly pathogen? Even scientists are saying its deadlines has been way over estimated.

The huge number of undiagnosed and asymptomatic cases means the CFR is still being debated but is likely a lot lower than previous estimates.

The risk of dying from it varies considerably depending on age, ethnicity, access to healthcare and underlying health conditions.

Yes Deadly Pathogen.

What exactly is confusing you?

average_runner · 31-08-2020 11:06AM

Boggles wrote: »

National restrictions will be applied if there is exponential growth in clusters and community transmission, that is a fact.

The only thing we don't know is, what are numbers and the corresponding set of circumstances and what will those restrictions look like.

As for the virus mutating to a less deadly strain, there is absolutely no scientific evidence based study that confirms this. Zero.

Sporadic anecdotal stories and people misunderstanding profiles and trends is not evidence.

Weaker Strain:

France and Spain are hitting the same number of cases as Spring, but deaths are down massively. So if the same strain, please explain the lower death rate?

Ireland has hit a massive growth in cases already and still no national lockdown. Lockdown is there to protect the weak, they are already protected.

Lockdown will not kill off this virus, it will be here always, just like the cold and flu.

sideswipe · 31-08-2020 11:08AM

average_runner wrote: »

How can you get it down to zero when people can travel and we busy ports.

Lockdown was effective but won't happen again unless deaths increase.

Systems are in place now, people working from home etc

New Zealand are opening back up today after their recent lockdown even though cases are rising, effectively changing strategy from their eradicate policy to one of suppression. People thinking we can eradicate Covid without serious implications to other health issues, education and the economy are not seeing the bigger picture.

average_runner · 31-08-2020 11:08AM

khalessi wrote: »

ALso Mike Ryan of the WHO in conversation with Sarah McInerney agreed that children 10-12 years of age and teenagers spread it as easily as adults about 2 weeks ago.

In fairness WHO is already all the over place and spoofing alot.

They said you couldn't wear a mask while running, saying not healthing. Yet there is no evidence to support this.

average_runner · 31-08-2020 11:09AM

sideswipe wrote: »

New Zealand are opening back up today after their recent lockdown even though cases are rising, effectively changing strategy from their eradicate policy to one of suppression. People thinking we can eradicate Covid without serious implications to other health issues, education and the economy are not seeing the bigger picture.

Exactly, and New Zealand has a more home market than external one like ours.

Boggles · 31-08-2020 11:12AM

average_runner wrote: »

France and Spain are hitting the same number of cases as Spring,

No they aren't.

There is no European country hitting the same actual amount of infections than they were in Spring.

They are detecting far more, key difference.

average_runner wrote: »

Ireland has hit a massive growth in cases already and still no national lockdown. Lockdown is there to protect the weak, they are already protected.

Common misconception, "Lockdown" was introduced so our emergency care didn't collapse.

Every thing else is secondary.

Also a 120 average cases a day is not "massive growth".

It's a worrying trend.

For another strain to have become the dominant strain, it would have had to replace the initial strain.

If anyone has any scientific evidence of that happening in any country in Europe at least, than by all means link it up.

31-08-2020 11:18AM

Locotastic wrote: »

..........

So if you're covid positive and you've 40 close contacts odds are that 1 person will contract it from you.

Obviously there are differentials but that seems to be the simple figures.

How high the R number went is probably as indicative as anything as to the contagious nature of the virus

meeeeh · 31-08-2020 11:21AM

Boggles wrote: »

Yes. Our chronic lack of investment and poor performance of service delivery will be highlighted beyond doubt during the pandemic.

Unfortunately the deadly pathogen doesn't give 2 fúcks.

It wants hosts, packed tightly inside.

Pretending otherwise is just pure emotion, not based on science or probably more worryingly not common sense.

The idea that 17 year old male 11 stone and 6 foot tall does not spread the virus to other humans or at most its "uncommon" but his 95 pound 5 foot 2 teacher does is la la land.

I didn't say they don't. But they are not overly affected by it. It's for the others to keep safe from them. And if you think the same 17 year old will stay at home not socializing if we tell them so you don't know any 17 year olds. Basically the teachers might be in a bit more risk but I think it's a price we should pay. In the same way as bus drivers or meat factory workers seem to be more affected.

How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

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