1980's New York City - better or worse than today?

TRANQUILLO · 28-08-2020 01:23PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Big cities are all pretty terrible these days.

Overpriced, gentrified, locals moved out, soul has been ripped from most of them.

From NYC to London, Paris and everywhere. Living on past glories but lacking the essence that made them so special in the first place.

I feel the same. Going to sound like a hypocrite hear but i wish all the other tourists would **** off and leave me enjoy the cities heheh. Queues are massive everywhere. lisbon and venice are ruined. Everyone looking for the same famous bakery or bar. tripadvisor and google maps make it a facile treasure hunt for everyone. there are no serendipitous discoveries.

The airbnb-ification of europe in conjunction with ryanair has turned them into identikit soulless empty vessels.

a h&m, starbucks etc in every city . They all look the same. I used to love the michael palin documentaries and the anthony bourdain ones.. that was real travel. what we have now is the travel version of fast food.

In a funny way i used to remember the good old days when you had to actually go on a j1 to san diego to buy hollister or abercrombie. I don't like the clothes but you get my drift .you had to earn it . it was right of passage.

castletownman · 28-08-2020 01:31PM

Went to visit my brother who works over there for a week last year. Hadn't been since 2002 I think. I was in awe with it, though the GF wasn't as enamoured by it.

Brother lived in lower Manhattan/financial district and about five minutes walk from WTC so was in a more upmarket area so to speak. Now I there were a few homeless people sleeping rough even on his street, and I overheard two locals saying that it was like living in the shadows with all the skyscrapers, but didn't see it as any more unsafe or manky than any other large city. Had a potentially hairy moment one night when he took the wrong direction home on the subway after a night out, and the carriage started to fill with shady looking characters, but so long as you have your wits about you, it's grand. Less pickpockets than you'd see in European cities nor in-your-face, annoying begging that has crept even into Dublin.

Love the fact that it really comes to life at night, and how you could be walking around Times Square's neon at any time of the night and not be stuck for food or drink. The subway could be busier at 10/11PM than at the supposed rush-hour 5/6PM time you'd see in London as an example.

Great city.

TRANQUILLO · 28-08-2020 01:47PM

Adelina Repulsive Tournament wrote: »

Don't know about Paris; London on the other hand was always over rated as hell, just like NYC.

And just like NYC, quality of living there is freaking bogus but its lifeblood is its reputation.

One city that's immune to me is, Amsterdam.

I don't know what that was like back when, but it's got the model that every other try hard glam city needs to follow.

Doesn't have a "north side" - it's pure class from top to bottom.

paris has a really nasty underbelly to it these days in my opinion. always feels like its going to boil over. and the kips are proper kips. I got off the train in sevran instead of a stop for a convention centre by mistake before. What an absolute dump. I didnt even feel like i was in France . You can see the divide. Go on youtube and you'll see an undercover video of a woman trying to get a coffee there and they wouldn't serve her as she wasn't accompanied by a man. She says" but that's not a rule in France " the reply she got was " you are in sevran"

TRANQUILLO · 28-08-2020 01:52PM

Hangdogroad wrote: »

Great music scene there in the late 70s early 80s. It's a cultural desert now.

I read a great book called meet me in the bathroom by lizzie goodman talks about the early 2000's garage rock revival and echoes the cities subsequent cultural decline

TRANQUILLO · 28-08-2020 01:55PM

ShatterAlan wrote: »

I first went to NY for the summer in 1986. Worked for my uncle and stayed in Flushing. I used to wander around Woodside at night and have Chinese food because it was really cheap. But parts of the city were just decrepit. I lived there for 7 years in the 1990's. Worked in Manhattan, lived on Long Island. It was good fun. I was young and had a few quid in my pocket. Was back there for a visit in 2012 and it was crap then. A retirement home for millionaires basically. Overpriced, characterless. Wouldn't care if I never saw the place again.

the Marriott in times square depresses me. soulless . Hasn't seen a lick of paint in years last time i was there. I always duck in for a slash .

IAMAMORON · 28-08-2020 02:03PM

hynesie08 wrote: »

So you went to manhattan and drank in irish bars and decided new york has no character.......

You should try it sometime, it might cheer you up a little.

Seamai · 28-08-2020 02:14PM

TRANQUILLO wrote: »

I feel the same. Going to sound like a hypocrite hear but i wish all the other tourists would **** off and leave me enjoy the cities heheh. Queues are massive everywhere. lisbon and venice are ruined. Everyone looking for the same famous bakery or bar. trip and visor and google maps make it a facile treasure hunt for everyone. there are no serendipitous discoveries.

The airbnb-ification of europe in conjunction with ryanair has turned them into identikit soulless empty vessels.

a h&m, starbucks etc in every city . They all look the same. I used to love the michael palin documentaries and the anthony bourdain ones.. that was real travel. what we have now is the travel version of fast food.

In a funny way i used to remember the good old days when you had to actually go on a j1 to san diego to buy hollister or abercrombie. I don't like the clothes but you get my drift .you had to earn it . it was right of passage.

I was only discussing this the other day with a friend in relation to travel and food, the trendier and busier food establishments are all doing similar stuff no matter where you go, it's all burgers, falafel, smashed avocado, pulled meat, sourdough, sushi, vegan versions of everything. I was having lunch in a cafe in Berlin last summer, no one was speaking German, it was all English with an American twang, even from the Irish guy that served us.
I was in Naples last September and it was nice to be somewhere new that doesn't yet have that homogenized feel to it bar a couple of pizza joints mentioned in the guide books which in my opinion were not the best. Yes it has an edge to it but I felt safer there than in Barcelona and interestingly my partner said it felt safer than the New York he was born and grew up in.

hynesie08 · 28-08-2020 02:18PM

IAMAMORON wrote: »

You should try it sometime, it might cheer you up a little.

I go to new york 2-3 times a year, love the place, but a lot of people base their experience on the area between macys and times square. Midtown isn't new york just like temple bar isn't Dublin....

bo0li5eumx12kp · 28-08-2020 02:20PM

castletownman wrote: »

Went to visit my brother who works over there for a week last year. Hadn't been since 2002 I think. I was in awe with it, though the GF wasn't as enamoured by it.

Brother lived in lower Manhattan/financial district and about five minutes walk from WTC so was in a more upmarket area so to speak. Now I there were a few homeless people sleeping rough even on his street, and I overheard two locals saying that it was like living in the shadows with all the skyscrapers, but didn't see it as any more unsafe or manky than any other large city. Had a potentially hairy moment one night when he took the wrong direction home on the subway after a night out, and the carriage started to fill with shady looking characters, but so long as you have your wits about you, it's grand. Less pickpockets than you'd see in European cities nor in-your-face, annoying begging that has crept even into Dublin.

Love the fact that it really comes to life at night, and how you could be walking around Times Square's neon at any time of the night and not be stuck for food or drink. The subway could be busier at 10/11PM than at the supposed rush-hour 5/6PM time you'd see in London as an example.

Great city.

So you visited but didn't work there?

That probably explains your positive point of view.

castletownman · 28-08-2020 02:28PM

Adelina Repulsive Tournament wrote: »

So you visited but didn't work there?

That probably explains your positive point of view.

Yeah fair enough point.

But that's the thing with most major cities, isn't it? Not exactly Utopian living.

Like I like going to Dublin for a night or two, visiting pubs or going to a concert or an event (pre-covid times). Good for a day trip to one of the tourist attractions or for christmas shopping too. But would I live there? Not a hope. And Dublin would be in the ha'penny place (no pun intended) when compared to NYC or London.

riclad · 28-08-2020 02:50PM

Maybe the ideal situation is live around 30 minutes from the city ,
you can go to concerts ,theatre etc while paying a lower rate of rent,
and having more space.
its a cliche , alot of artists, musicians, writers would go to nyc to get discovered or make a new career
Maybe it the time when anyone can put content on youtube or spotify or social media its not so important to live in a big city.
When you are young maybe you are not so concerned about living in a small flat and paying high rent if you are living in the city that never sleeps .
I read Just kids ,patti smyths biography, she says artists and writers went to nyc in the 80s, partly because it was a very cheap place to live, even it was also very dangerous.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 28-08-2020 03:01PM

Adelina Repulsive Tournament wrote: »

You're absolutely correct.

It's not perfect, they have some problems also - in some areas they could do better.

However, I've never been to Bijlmer as one must take the metro its so far outside the central ring.

Point being, whilst they could improve, it's so far ahead of every other supposedly "glam" city there is, it's almost laughable.

What I mean by no "north side" is, the entire central city, it's just so damn beautiful, picturesque, quality of life is phenomenal, easy to get around, and it's a consistent state throughout;

Like Dublin is clearly divided north vs south - with two distinct lifestyles to each.

'Dam seems to blend the best of both - there's no trash, no "billy bad ass" areas where teh bad-boys and teh good-girls-gone-bad hang out; the outcome is splendor.

How so? As somebody who has lived in Dublin for 18 years with brief sojourns elsewhere, I'm not sure what you mean by "two distinct lifestyles".

Errashareesh · 28-08-2020 03:08PM

I lived in Phibsborough, Santry and Ringsend. No difference. Favourite of the three was Phibsborough.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 28-08-2020 03:21PM

Earthhorse wrote: »

I wouldn't worry too much about New York to be honest with you. Unless the virus spells the end for big cities in general it will bounce back.

As for it being overrated I'm inclined to agree. But then, I think most things are overrated. Maybe it is a great place to live if you are very rich though.

Except Iceland. Iceland is rately exactly as it should be: fucking amazing.

jimgoose · 28-08-2020 03:25PM

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Except Iceland. Iceland is rately exactly as it should be: fucking amazing.

As Clarkson put it: God hasn't finished making Iceland yet, but he lets us play with it.

Muahahaha · 28-08-2020 03:42PM

JupiterKid wrote: »

From the late 1980s the city started to clean up its act - formerly decaying neighborhoods were sanitised and gentrified, policing was tightened up and crime fell drastically in the 1990s. This was due to a complex combination of factors, but key to this change was a rightward shift in the governance of the city.

There was a chapter in that book Freakonomics that challenged the idea that Rudy Guiliani cleaned up New York. Instead they said it was a result of the 1972 Roe vs.Wade Supreme Court ruling that legalised abortion. The theory went that legalised abortion meant women in poverty who normally would have had the baby were now terminating the pregnancy. So the birth rate amongst the poorest classes went down from 1972 onwards and 18 or so years later that then fed in to a reduction in crime not just in New York but nationwide. In other words babies being born into poverty who were likely to turn to crime as adults were no longer being born because abortion had been legalised.

Adelina Repulsive Tournament wrote: »

Like Dublin is clearly divided north vs south - with two distinct lifestyles to each.

Dublin is no longer divided north to south, the river Liffey has long become irrelevant. Dublin is divided economically from east to west. House prices show the evidence of this- it costs around the same to buy a house in Dalkey as it does in Malahide, Blackrock and Clontarf the same, Portmarnock similar to Dun Laoighire and so on. On the other end of the scale go west and Blanch and Tallaght are both far away from the east coast with similar house prices. The wealth in Dublin is all along the east cost regardless of whether or not it is north or south of the river. Theres the odd exception like Castleknock but in general the further you go away from the east coast the more house prices decline.

Lockheed · 28-08-2020 03:46PM

New York for me was a trip of a lifetime. Just wanted to stay there for another week. So good for art, libraries, parks, everywhere is just beautiful and when the big fat golden sun sets all the buildings light up as if they were made out of gold. Would give my left kidney to go back

golfball37 · 28-08-2020 03:50PM

Dublin has an east/west divide. Clontarf and Howth are far nicer/posher than Drimnagh or Crumlin.

Economic Collapse · 28-08-2020 04:00PM

Giuliani fixed New York, far left muppets like De Blasio have destroyed it.

hynesie08 · 28-08-2020 04:11PM

Economic Collapse wrote: »

Giuliani fixed New York, far left muppets like De Blasio have destroyed it.

Did he though? He introduced a broken windows policy that at best was classist and at worst was flat out racist, he was a massive fan of kicking down was crazy rudy...

Igotadose · 28-08-2020 04:15PM

Hector Savage wrote: »

Jesus Christ!! That's a depressing article!!

Really hope they're wrong ...

The 70's-early 80's when I was growing up in and around NYC were pretty much the worst time to be there. Bankruptcy ("FORD TO CITY: DROP DEAD!") was a bad time. Businesses *did* leave. Wall Street wasn't the mega-juggernaut it has been since the 2000's.

Dinkins was a disaster of a Mayor, but most of them were except maybe Koch (who was very popular but Mayor for too long.) Giuliani with zero tolerance cleaned up the appearance of things, which psychologically was good stuff and good for the tourists. Bloomberg with stop-and-frisk kept that going. De Blasio is a relic of the old days, no clue but lots of noise and never met a bad cause he didn't get behind. Shocked he was reelected.

Now, it's hideously expensive with a staggering tax load. NJ isn't much cheaper. Horrendous commutes. The place is, again, losing population. I moved away from NJ in 2003 and haven't looked back, except for a year living on the UWS where I had a front-row seat to the awfulness. The subways had 'lipstick on a pig' but were as grim as they were when I was a kid and they cost 20cents, later 25 (now, I think it's $3.) The unions have everything by the short hairs yet again. Basically, there's just a bunch of old, poorly curated museums, incredibly expensive entertainments like Broadway, where it's still hit-and-miss even if you buy a half-price $300 ticket. Most of the restaurants serve lousy food, the rest of the US has cities with way better food, museums and more reasonably priced entertainment. Just avoid the place.

All the place is good at is advertising itself and living off a reputation of having been cool once. It wasn't, and it isn't especially if you get to go to better towns. It's a kip, don't go there.

Economic Collapse · 28-08-2020 04:17PM

hynesie08 wrote: »

Did he though? He introduced a broken windows policy that at best was classist and at worst was flat out racist, he was a massive fan of kicking down was crazy rudy...

Spare me your socialist garbage. He destroyed the mafia, crime levels plummeted and the economy boomed. De Blasio is an incompetent muppet.

hynesie08 · 28-08-2020 04:25PM

Economic Collapse wrote: »

Spare me your socialist garbage. He destroyed the mafia, crime levels plummeted and the economy boomed. De Blasio is an incompetent muppet.

He benefitted from the first Internet boom to finance koch and dinkins policies, lad didn't have an original idea in his head..

Economic Collapse · 28-08-2020 04:30PM

hynesie08 wrote: »

He benefitted from the first Internet boom to finance koch and dinkins policies, lad didn't have an original idea in his head..

New Yorks greatest Mayor of all time probably. But yeah I'm sure you, some socialist crank on the internet in Ireland would have done much better.

hynesie08 · 28-08-2020 04:38PM

Economic Collapse wrote: »

New Yorks greatest Mayor of all time probably. But yeah I'm sure you, some socialist crank on the internet in Ireland would have done much better.

Then why were his approval numbers in the toilet? New York couldn't wait to get rid of Giuliani, if he tried to change the mayoral limits he would have been laughed out of the city, even after 9/11. But throw more buzzwords rather than debate the point........

Laguardia was the best mayor BTW...... Maybe koch at a push.

RWCNT · 28-08-2020 04:47PM

Economic Collapse wrote: »

New Yorks greatest Mayor of all time probably. But yeah I'm sure you, some socialist crank on the internet in Ireland would have done much better.

Posting on the site for less than an hour and comfortable enough to diagnose a member as a "socialist crank" despite nothing they've posted in this thread being remotely referential to socialism. Interesting.

28-08-2020 04:49PM

Giuliani was a great leader during 9/11 and did great work to get crime down. I would have thought he would be their best mayor ever but that's my view from afar.

hynesie08 · 28-08-2020 04:49PM

RWCNT wrote: »

Posting on the site for less than an hour and comfortable enough to diagnose a member as a "socialist crank" despite nothing they've posted in this thread being remotely referential to socialism. Interesting.

Funny thing is with the exception of believing in universal health care, I am a fully fledged capitalist.......

Economic Collapse · 28-08-2020 04:51PM

RWCNT wrote: »

Posting on the site for less than an hour and comfortable enough to diagnose a member as a "socialist crank" despite nothing they've posted in this thread being remotely referential to socialism. Interesting.

Oh here's another one. Shouldn't you be on twitter with the rest of the shinnerbots and socialist looneys ranting about the establishment and slobbering over the Rubberbandits and Tony Groves.

hynesie08 · 28-08-2020 04:53PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Giuliani was a great leader during 9/11 and did great work to get crime down. I would have thought he would be their best mayor ever but that's my view from afar.

He rose above party and class lines during 9/11 and was irreplaceable in the weeks following it, but he couldn't translate that to a 3rd term. He pissed off bar owners, cabbies and minorities. His bright spots were bright, but he was not a very good mayor. That's just my opinion but it's one a lot of new yorkers share.

1980's New York City - better or worse than today?

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