How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

wirelessdude01 · 28-08-2020 09:54AM

Oranage2 wrote: »

Can parents buy rain jackets or umbrellas for the kids?

Umbrellas wouldn't be allowed in school. We've told ours to being in a packable rain jacket that can be left in their basket.

Now if they don't have a jacket they are still going out. We can't be doing what we would have always done and given them someone else's spare jacket. Not under the current circumstances.

TonyMaloney · 28-08-2020 09:56AM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

The children and parents of Ireland are going to have to get used to being out in the rain this winter. Know lots and lots of schools that are planning on children being put outside for breaks regardless of weather. As a staff we've been told we are going out unless there is a weather warning in operation for wind.

Yep

here's an article with a load of parents up in arms because their kids will be chucked out in the yard multiple times a day regardless of weather

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/schools-ireland-dublin-rules-advice-18819274

drunkmonkey · 28-08-2020 09:57AM

s1ippy wrote: »

What I'm learning in this thread: parents by and large are sick of having to be around their children yet teachers should be thankful they have a job, put up with whatever is thrown at them and shut up about it as well. What a useful and unique perspective. Can't wait to see how the month turns out for you all x

Your insane. Neither a parent or a teacher I assume. I'm sure a lot or parents would have gladly rolled over for another hours sleep this morning, it's no walk in the park getting kids ready.

lulublue22 · 28-08-2020 09:59AM

khalessi wrote: »

Sign that tthey have seen the back to school webinar.

I cannot believe the unions have bought into that as a parent or a teacher.
That is putting children at risk, their families, teachers and teachers families.

As a nurse, when I was nursing, I knew that if ppe was needed it was supplied and that the hospital had my back providing, hibiscrub hand wash which i used constantly throughout the day. When my skin started to react to the hibiscrub the infection control team found me an alternative so I could continue to sanitise and work. When a case of cjd came on the ward proper theatre gowns and theatre procedures were followed going in and out of the room.

Now it might have been a few years ago but the point is, at all times my employers had my back re prevention of infection, using what was available at the time.

When nurse staff levels got so bad we were given a form to sign stating something along the lines of, I do not feel safe working and managing a ward of 36 patients with this level of staffing and will not be held repsonsible for any medical procedures which go wrong or some such. THese were sent constantly to management and the staffing levels slowly improved.

The Dept of Health and Education are supposed to have my back and they do not. THe idea that children or staff are not to inform one another is pathetic. I want to keep my friends and colleagues safe as well as my family. I do not have faith in this government to do the right thing. What are they trying to hide?

There have been comments here by people to suck it up, stop complaining whining, others have worked through the pandemic, what about HCWs all had protective gear provided. I always felt supported as a nurse, even watching the nurses fight for proper ppe in March, they had support and were supported. Teachers are being hung out to dry with the increasing secrecy attached to the reopening of schools and reporting of infections. It should not be stigmatised just treated as any illness is.

I feel very disappointed and let down by that letter and the Dept of Health, Education and NPHET, but wll as always continue to work, and continue to provide a postive uplifting environment for my students and colleagues.

I think confidentiality is important for both children and staff particularly when dealing with suspected cases. I was surprised when parents on here were talking about being informed by the school of a case etc. It was clear from the guidelines that Public Health once notified would be running the show. I always presumed that this was to control the narrative as much as possible. I’m more concerned
with the outlined response to a confirmed case in the class. Not necessarily treating the class as close contacts / isolating / testing etc is concerning given the layout of most classes in Irish schools. It seems to me that they are sticking rigidly to the theory that child to child transmission is negligible and presumably that asymptomatic spread is not an issue. I really hope for all working in schools that they are right.

wirelessdude01 · 28-08-2020 10:00AM

TonyMaloney wrote: »

Yep

here's an article with a load of parents up in arms because their kids will be chucked out in the yard multiple times a day regardless of weather

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/schools-ireland-dublin-rules-advice-18819274

Very same ones would probably be giving out if their children weren't allowed out at all. Can't please some.

Oranage2 · 28-08-2020 10:01AM

1 hour sleep vs minding your kid all day, entertain him/her, educate the kid or if you work find a minder for the kid.

Yeah right come off it

wirelessdude01 · 28-08-2020 10:03AM

lulublue22 wrote: »

I think confidentiality is important for both children and staff particularly when dealing with suspected cases. I was surprised when parents on here were talking about being informed by the school of a case etc. It was clear from the guidelines that Public Health once notified would be running the show. I always presumed that this was to control the narrative as much as possible. I’m more concerned
with the outlined response to a confirmed case in the class. Not necessarily treating the class as close contacts / isolating / testing etc is concerning given the layout of most classes in Irish schools. It seems to me that they are sticking rigidly to the theory that child to child transmission is negligible and presumably that asymptomatic spread is not an issue. I really hope for all working in schools that they are right.

If they aren't right then we are walking straight into a total sh!tshow.

khalessi · 28-08-2020 10:07AM

lulublue22 wrote: »

I think confidentiality is important for both children and staff particularly when dealing with suspected cases. I was surprised when parents on here were talking about being informed by the school of a case etc. It was clear from the guidelines that Public Health once notified would be running the show. I always presumed that this was to control the narrative as much as possible. I’m more concerned
with the outlined response to a confirmed case in the class. Not necessarily treating the class as close contacts / isolating / testing etc is concerning given the layout of most classes in Irish schools. It seems to me that they are sticking rigidly to the theory that child to child transmission is negligible and presumably that asymptomatic spread is not an issue. I really hope for all working in schools that they are right.

As a nurse and teacher I agree with confidentiality it is there for headlice so why not for this. I do not like secrecy around illnesses it stigmatises them, I worked with Aids patients in the late 80s and 90s and the stories I heard about how they were treated by family and friends were awful. I remember how friends I had, who had HIV and Aids were treated if they had visible Karposi Sarcoma marks on their skin and how they would try to cover them up. I remember how cancer in the 80s and 90s was referred to in whispers as the Big C, it did nothing good for these illnesses, when they came out first.

If a case is confirmed people should be told to keep them safe. A teacher should be tested if suspected case in class, we are short staffed enough. We are mature enough to cope. Stop treating parents and teachers like imbeciles, we know how viruses spread in classrooms, the Dept of Health and Education should have more respect for parents and teachers and try to keep all who use educational services safe.

Gentleman Off The Pitch · 28-08-2020 10:09AM

TonyMaloney wrote: »

Yep

here's an article with a load of parents up in arms because their kids will be chucked out in the yard multiple times a day regardless of weather

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/schools-ireland-dublin-rules-advice-18819274

"One "annoyed" parent" said "It's shocking and outrageous. The boys will be sent out in all weather except lightning. If they are put out into the rain on several occasions each day, they are going to get sick, they are going to get the flu. And that's before you take into consideration the slips, trips and falls from being out in the rain, hail or snow."

What sort of society do we have today at all?

average_runner · 28-08-2020 10:09AM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Umbrellas wouldn't be allowed in school. We've told ours to being in a packable rain jacket that can be left in their basket.

Now if they don't have a jacket they are still going out. We can't be doing what we would have always done and given them someone else's spare jacket. Not under the current circumstances.

Says alot about the school. I know our school isn't doing that, principal made it very clear.

average_runner · 28-08-2020 10:10AM

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

"One "annoyed" parent" said "It's shocking and outrageous. The boys will be sent out in all weather except lightning. If they are put out into the rain on several occasions each day, they are going to get sick, they are going to get the flu. And that's before you take into consideration the slips, trips and falls from being out in the rain, hail or snow."

What sort of society do we have today at all?

Cant get the flu from rain

harr · 28-08-2020 10:11AM

Our lad was brought out for two walks yesterday and had his usual two breaks .
Now the walks were just a quick ten minutes, we had been told to provided a light waterproof jacket he could leave in school and to make sure shoes were somewhat waterproof. We gave him a rain poncho that cost I think €10 and it covers him completely. Windows were opened at certain times as well and they were allowed put on coats ..
Happy they are getting the couple of walks in as PE won’t be happening for a while.

wirelessdude01 · 28-08-2020 10:11AM

isup wrote: »

My kid
My said on his first day back they excercised in class. Surely this is against guidelines and not safe ?

What class?

lulublue22 · 28-08-2020 10:16AM

average_runner wrote: »

Says alot about the school. I know our school isn't doing that, principal made it very clear.

or perhaps it says a lot about the parent who sent the child to school without a coat in our weather ! Just as an aside who do you think will be able to stay inside with the child ? Can’t be given a spare coat , can’t sit down the back of another class , can’t stay in the class unsupervised , no spare staff anyhow not to mind now with crossing bubbles. The amount of people who don’t understand the daily running of a school or sees how covid impacts that is astonishing.

wirelessdude01 · 28-08-2020 10:22AM

lulublue22 wrote: »

or perhaps it says a lot about the parent who sent the child to school without a coat in our weather ! Just as an aside who do you think will be able to stay inside with the child ? Can’t be given a spare coat , can’t sit down the back of another class , can’t stay in the class unsupervised , no spare staff anyhow not to mind now with crossing bubbles. The amount of people who don’t understand the daily running of a school or sees how covid impacts that is astonishing.

The days also of parents saying that Johnny or Mary aren't feeling great, can they stay inside at break also have to be over. If they aren't feeling great then why are you sending them to school?

the corpo · 28-08-2020 10:24AM

lulublue22 wrote: »

I think confidentiality is important for both children and staff particularly when dealing with suspected cases.

Agreed, but there has to be a better way of handling it. Not a chance our kids won't come home and tell us that another child or teacher was removed from class, and it'll just lead to rumours and panic while the community hasn't a clue what's going on.
And if parents hear a child has left that day (for any reason), it'll be assumed to be covid related and spread more panic.

Not sure what the solution here is, but do think the Department is handling it incorrectly, especially when the ECDC guidelines state that any child in the class of a confirmed case is considered a close contact.

If they're recommending family members of a suspected case restrict their movements, I don't see why class mates shouldn't have same rule apply.

irishblessing · 28-08-2020 10:26AM

lulublue22 wrote: »

I think confidentiality is important for both children and staff particularly when dealing with suspected cases. I was surprised when parents on here were talking about being informed by the school of a case etc. It was clear from the guidelines that Public Health once notified would be running the show. I always presumed that this was to control the narrative as much as possible. I’m more concerned
with the outlined response to a confirmed case in the class. Not necessarily treating the class as close contacts / isolating / testing etc is concerning given the layout of most classes in Irish schools. It seems to me that they are sticking rigidly to the theory that child to child transmission is negligible and presumably that asymptomatic spread is not an issue. I really hope for all working in schools that they are right.

That isn't correct though. Not according to studies that have been done (S. Korea being the largest). Classes and schools closing in countries all over the world due to spread. How could asymptomatic spread not be an issue when it's the greatest issue of all. That's why we all have to wear masks after all, because this virus actually has the greatest amount of shedding in either asymptomatic or presymptomatic stages. Young children have been shown to have just as much or more viral load then adults, with children aged 10 and older shown to spread the virus "at least as well as adults do."

drunkmonkey · 28-08-2020 10:35AM

irishblessing wrote: »

That isn't correct though. Not according to studies that have been done (S. Korea being the largest). Classes and schools closing in countries all over the world due to spread. How could asymptomatic spread not be an issue when it's the greatest issue of all. That's why we all have to wear masks after all, because this virus actually has the greatest amount of shedding in either asymptomatic or presymptomatic stages. Young children have been shown to have just as much or more viral load then adults, with children aged 10 and older shown to spread the virus "at least as well as adults do."

They no longer recommend testing asymptomatic people in the states the CDC changed their guidelines the other day.

"someone who was in close contact (within 6 feet) of a person with COVID-19 for at least 15 minutes but didn't have symptoms does not “necessarily need a test.”

khalessi · 28-08-2020 10:40AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

They no longer recommend testing asymptomatic people in the states the CDC changed their guidelines the other day.

"someone who was in close contact (within 6 feet) of a person with COVID-19 for at least 15 minutes but didn't have symptoms does not “necessarily need a test.”

Were they the guidelines that were brought in by Trump while Fauci was under anaesthetic having a procedure done?

wirelessdude01 · 28-08-2020 10:44AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

They no longer recommend testing asymptomatic people in the states the CDC changed their guidelines the other day.

"someone who was in close contact (within 6 feet) of a person with COVID-19 for at least 15 minutes but didn't have symptoms does not “necessarily need a test.”

Do we really want to be following what the US are doing?

JDD · 28-08-2020 10:56AM

However, in order to help the schools & teachers over the next few weeks I think as adults all need to call out people having parties etc. or failing to go by the guidelines or generally acting the fools because we all know shíthousery at home is going to bring it into the schools.

I agree. However I think we, as parents, also have a responsibility to start limiting our contacts once again as well. I'm trying to put my head back into lockdown mode. Over the summer I have met up with all my close friends in person, along with going out for a few meals and bringing the kids shopping and into town on public transport. All that is going to have to stop over the next few weeks. The kids who bring it into school are likely to have caught it off their parents. The kids were only in afterschool four days a week as my parents mind them on a Friday, but I have asked afterschool to take them for five days, so that my parents only have to take them for a couple of hours if they want, or not at all if infections in the community rise. It's another few hundred euro per month, and it's not like we can particularly afford it, but I think it's the right thing to do.

I’m more concerned
with the outlined response to a confirmed case in the class. Not necessarily treating the class as close contacts / isolating / testing etc is concerning given the layout of most classes in Irish schools. It seems to me that they are sticking rigidly to the theory that child to child transmission is negligible and presumably that asymptomatic spread is not an issue. I really hope for all working in schools that they are right.

I agree with this Lulublue. It seems that they are trying to stick to a narrative that is purposefully out of date, because if they did tell the truth maybe the teachers would strike.

We all know the real story - NPHET know that the virus is airborne, and that if one child in the class gets a positive test then really all the children in the class should be treated as close contacts, rather than just the other children who sit at their table. In fact if once child starts showing serious symptoms, like the most common ones, all children in the class should be sent home until the outcome of the test is known.

I know you say we are all grown ups and they should just come out and say the truth, but I'm not sure what the reaction would be if the government rocked up and said "look, children are as likely to catch it and spread it. We don't have the money, or the time, to add space to every school in the country. So we're going to continue as normal, and try to restrict all activity that is not crucial to the economy as much as we can outside of schools in order to reduce the chance it gets into the schools. We're not going to mandate mask wearing in primary school because well, we think the kids won't wear them anyway and if we mandated it we'd be admitting that school classrooms are uncontrolled environments. That will lead to parents not sending their children back, and high risk teachers refusing to come into work. We may as well not go back at all if that's going to happen, as we're on a knife's edge regarding teacher availability as it is. And we're not going to give you, the teacher, PPE to wear because to be honest unless everyone is wearing it in the class it's useless to you. Unless we gave you N95 masks, which if we gave you a new one a week would mean sourcing 40,000 masks a week. We need to keep those for hospitals. So. That the way it is."

There'd be uproar. I mean, there's one thing suspecting that this is what is behind government plans, and them coming out and saying it.

Everyone's just hoping that all the remaining and new restrictions - basically everything not vital to the economy or super risky being sacrificed on the altar of keeping schools open - is enough to keep the number of schools affected by infections at a minimum.

SusanC10 · 28-08-2020 11:06AM

Question - suppose Sean in a Class A arrives at school with a cough, temp etc. Teacher isolates him and calls Parents who collect him.
How long does Sean need to stay out of school ?
Do Parents needs to prove to the school that they have contacted their GP and GP says testing is not necessary ?
Or provide proof of a negative result ?

wirelessdude01 · 28-08-2020 11:08AM

SusanC10 wrote: »

Question - suppose Sean in a Class A arrives at school with a cough, temp etc. Teacher isolates him and calls Parents who collect him.
How long does Sean need to stay out of school ?
Do Parents needs to prove to the school that they have contacted their GP and GP says testing is not necessary ?

My understanding based on what was released yesterday is that you should stay out for 48hrs after symptoms have disappeared.

SusanC10 · 28-08-2020 11:11AM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

My understanding based on what was released yesterday is that you should stay out for 48hrs after symptoms have disappeared.

So Parents don't actually have to contact the GP then ?

Btw, if this happens to either of our Kids, I will be on the phone to the GP. But it's not me I am thinking about.

mirrorwall14 · 28-08-2020 11:11AM

It’s the not necessarily contacting the GP and testing that bothers me. That could go horribly wrong very fast. Exclude for 14 day’s or 2 days? I’ll just tell the school I rang....

seamus · 28-08-2020 11:13AM

Our school's arrangement for collecting the kids are a one-way route through the yard where you collect your child on the way.

The principal has made it clear that these arrangements will be in place regardless of the weather, so all children should have full rain gear with them every day.

One positive is that a lot of parents and their kids might learn to HTFU and stop worrying about a drop of rain.

Newbie20 · 28-08-2020 11:14AM

First morning of having students in school. Worse than I thought it would be to be honest, it is impossible to do social distancing. The students don’t have the concept of it at all, or have no idea what a metre is.

It feels like I’ve spent all morning telling them to do this and that but sure as soon as they are gone out of sight or gone out of the school they are closely bunched together anyway. It seems like the things we are trying to do are all a bit pointless really because the students are only going to apply these rules while they are in front of you.

wirelessdude01 · 28-08-2020 11:17AM

SusanC10 wrote: »

So Parents don't actually have to contact the GP then ?

Btw, if this happens to either of our Kids, I will be on the phone to the GP. But it's not me I am thinking about.

Very much open to interpretation. Whole thing is a farce.

Schools reopening isn't an issue at all, what happens after when people present to school with symptoms or symptoms appear during the school day is when the holes in the plan will appear as each school and indeed each teacher will view things differently.

wirelessdude01 · 28-08-2020 11:18AM

Newbie20 wrote: »

First morning of having students in school. Worse than I thought it would be to be honest, it is impossible to do social distancing. The students don’t have the concept of it at all, or have no idea what a metre is.

It feels like I’ve spent all morning telling them to do this and that but sure as soon as they are gone out of sight or gone out of the school they are closely bunched together anyway. It seems like the things we are trying to do are all a bit pointless really because the students are only going to apply these rules while they are in front of you.

The 1m thing only applies indoors. Outdoors it's play as per normal.

smellyoldboot · 28-08-2020 11:21AM

Oranage2 wrote: »

I believe it was based on Dr Nolan's own personal experience as a child and how he remembered only interacting with 5-6 other students in the class.

That would be a far from normal experience in fairness. Over the course of a week a "normal" child will interact significantly with the vast majority of classmates and in secondary you could extend that to about the equivalent amount from other classes/schools too. From my own memories of school also.

How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

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