1980's New York City - better or worse than today?

murpho999 · 26-08-2020 07:15PM

ShatterAlan wrote: »

I laugh when people talk about De Bijlmer being some sort of ghetto. It's about as "ghetto" as Whitehall or Beaumont in Dublin which are both nice areas.

I never said it was a ghetto.
But it's certainly not what I would call a nice area but it has improved over the years.

The point is people glorifying cities probably based on weekend trips in tourism centre.

murpho999 · 26-08-2020 07:22PM

Adelina Repulsive Tournament wrote: »

You're absolutely correct.

It's not perfect, they have some problems also - in some areas they could do better.

However, I've never been to Bijlmer as one must take the metro its so far outside the central ring.

Point being, whilst they could improve, it's so far ahead of every other supposedly "glam" city there is, it's almost laughable.

What I mean by no "north side" is, the entire central city, it's just so damn beautiful, picturesque, quality of life is phenomenal, easy to get around, and it's a consistent state throughout;

Like Dublin is clearly divided north vs south - with two distinct lifestyles to each.

'Dam seems to blend the best of both - there's no trash, no "billy bad ass" areas where teh bad-boys and teh good-girls-gone-bad hang out; the outcome is splendor.

Well I've lived in Holland for 7 years and I find your comments strange.

Yes the central city is pretty with canals and buildings but like all cities it has rough spots like I said.

I don't know why you're comparing Dublin's Northside which is a large area with many suburbs (so very nice ones too) to central Amsterdam.

How can you make a fair comparison when you say you don't go outside Amsterdam's central ring (which is very small) yet compare it to Dublin's northside.

How it's far ahead of "glam" cities is beyond me.

Red Light district is awful and tacky. Damrak is full of awful restaurants and bars. Drugs is a problem like everywhere. Also place is full of grafitti.

bo0li5eumx12kp · 27-08-2020 06:47AM

murpho999 wrote: »

Well I've lived in Holland for 7 years and I find your comments strange.

Yes the central city is pretty with canals and buildings but like all cities it has rough spots like I said.

I don't know why you're comparing Dublin's Northside which is a large area with many suburbs (so very nice ones too) to central Amsterdam.

How can you make a fair comparison when you say you don't go outside Amsterdam's central ring (which is very small) yet compare it to Dublin's northside.

How it's far ahead of "glam" cities is beyond me.

Red Light district is awful and tacky. Damrak is full of awful restaurants and bars. Drugs is a problem like everywhere. Also place is full of grafitti.

North side?

Pfff, as far as City north side goes it ends about Dorset St.

As oppose to south side, the action arguably ends at the Green.

Comparing one with the other is like going "the opposite side of the tracks" in some old hollywood flick.

'Dam has consistency, like the best of the mentalities of each side are melded into one.

jimgoose · 27-08-2020 11:22AM

The brother lived in New York for about ten years, he says there's nowhere quite like it, in a largely positive sense. Granted he did live in the rather swanky John St./Battery Park area of Lower Manhattan. I don't know much about how things were there in the 1980s, aside from watching the usual fillums.

Only somewhat tangentially, ISTR it was John Updike who said "the true New Yorker secretly believes that people living anywhere else have to be, in some sense, kidding." :pac:

riclad · 27-08-2020 12:50PM

Theres a cliche about writers and people in the media leaving new york,
its expensive to live there ,rents are high, traffic is bad,its hard to get a parking space,taxs are high.
for the same money you can live in a large house in new jersey .
Alot of people leave when they are over 30.
Young people go there to get work and become successful.
Like any city it can be good to live there if you are rich .
And before covid there were lots of good concert venues, museum,s ,art gallerys ,librarys etc to visit.
i think it was alot cheaper to live there in the 80,s ,rents were lower.
middle class people are leaving new york now ,
As it not as good to live there , with all the protests, going on,homeless people living on the streets, many of the shops are closed and boarded up.
and of course people can work from home using the internet.
https://nypost.com/2020/08/11/new-yorkers-flee-nyc-in-droves/

https://nypost.com/2020/08/11/new-yorkers-flee-nyc-in-droves/

rents are going down ,theres 1000,s of empty apartments in the city.

i think it was better to live there in the 80s.

Joe_ Public · 27-08-2020 01:11PM

riclad wrote: »

Theres a cliche about writers and people in the media leaving new york,
its expensive to live there ,rents are high, traffic is bad,its hard to get a parking space,taxs are high.
for the same money you can live in a large house in new jersey .
Alot of people leave when they are over 30.
Young people go there to get work and become successful.
Like any city it can be good to live there if you are rich .
And before covid there were lots of good concert venues, museum,s ,art gallerys ,librarys etc to visit.
i think it was alot cheaper to live there in the 80,s ,rents were lower.
middle class people are leaving new york now ,
As it not as good to live there , with all the protests, going on,homeless people living on the streets, many of the shops are closed and boarded up.
and of course people can work from home using the internet.
https://nypost.com/2020/08/11/new-yorkers-flee-nyc-in-droves/

https://nypost.com/2020/08/11/new-yorkers-flee-nyc-in-droves/

rents are going down ,theres 1000,s of empty apartments in the city.

i think it was better to live there in the 80s.

Just from observation from visiting, i could never square the compromise of living in sub standard conditions just to be in Manhattan. Could justify it 20s or early 30s, but not beyond. I'd much rather live comfortably in Astoria or Jackson Heights, a 20 minute subway ride from Grand Central, than be cooped up in a freezing upper east side shoebox, just so i could call myself a Manhattanite. But everybody is different, i guess.

RocketRaccoon · 27-08-2020 01:27PM

ShatterAlan wrote: »

This article pretty much echos what you said:

https://nypost.com/2020/08/17/nyc-is-dead-forever-heres-why-james-altucher/?fbclid=IwAR2jH7P7yf6Yg49jaouObIIETeiReAYCOWvHHN5MHHF3g6AgYyaxfiP_Mc4

As someone who loves New York(as a tourist) that's a horrible thing to read.

bo0li5eumx12kp · 27-08-2020 02:55PM

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Just from observation from visiting, i could never square the compromise of living in sub standard conditions just to be in Manhattan. Could justify it 20s or early 30s, but not beyond. I'd much rather live comfortably in Astoria or Jackson Heights, a 20 minute subway ride from Grand Central, than be cooped up in a freezing upper east side shoebox, just so i could call myself a Manhattanite. But everybody is different, i guess.

Would you take New Jersey + path train ahead of this?

Hector Savage · 27-08-2020 03:02PM

ShatterAlan wrote: »

This article pretty much echos what you said:

https://nypost.com/2020/08/17/nyc-is-dead-forever-heres-why-james-altucher/?fbclid=IwAR2jH7P7yf6Yg49jaouObIIETeiReAYCOWvHHN5MHHF3g6AgYyaxfiP_Mc4

Jesus Christ!! That's a depressing article!!

Really hope they're wrong ...

hynesie08 · 27-08-2020 03:05PM

Adelina Repulsive Tournament wrote: »

Would you take New Jersey + path train ahead of this?

PATH runs to hoboken and Jersey City, wouldn't be that much cheaper than nyc, more bang for your buck though...... Realistically you'd want to be 60-90 minutes away by train to have a decent quality of life and still have the perks of manhattan.....

Earthhorse · 27-08-2020 03:18PM

I wouldn't worry too much about New York to be honest with you. Unless the virus spells the end for big cities in general it will bounce back.

As for it being overrated I'm inclined to agree. But then, I think most things are overrated. Maybe it is a great place to live if you are very rich though.

Joe_ Public · 27-08-2020 03:25PM

Adelina Repulsive Tournament wrote: »

Would you take New Jersey + path train ahead of this?

Well, personally I'd be looking at areas of Queens or even further out parts of Brooklyn like Bay Ridge before NJ but even they're not that affordable these days. A relative of mine moved into Long Island City bout 12 years ago and everyone told him he was mad but i always found it a good spot to stay when i visited and his rent was cheap compared to just a mile the other side of the bridge.

hynesie08 · 27-08-2020 03:31PM

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Well, personally I'd be looking at areas of Queens or even further out parts of Brooklyn like Bay Ridge before NJ but even they're not that affordable these days. A relative of mine moved into Long Island City bout 12 years ago and everyone told him he was mad but i always found it a good spot to stay when i visited and his rent was cheap compared to just a mile the other side of the bridge.

Up around Queens plaza is a lovely place to stay. Bit noisy if you are near the 2 stations, but either the 7 into manhattan with that view or walking over the Ed kosch bridge on a brisk autumn morning are 2 of my favorite things. Some good bars and real local food places as well. Been meaning to venture further into astoria but haven't gotten round to it yet.

Joe_ Public · 27-08-2020 03:42PM

hynesie08 wrote: »

Up around Queens plaza is a lovely place to stay. Bit noisy if you are near the 2 stations, but either the 7 into manhattan with that view or walking over the Ed kosch bridge on a brisk autumn morning are 2 of my favorite things. Some good bars and real local food places as well. Been meaning to venture further into astoria but haven't gotten round to it yet.

Its improved a lot past few years, 10 years ago when i stayed there first, there was really nothing there. Looking at all the building going on, it's going to be a happening area within 10 years I'd say. Given its location, amazing it took so long. Walking over the bridge is great, but i find you need to watch out for all the budding Lance Armstrongs trying to set a new speed record. Nearly became a cropper once or twice!

Capt. Autumn · 27-08-2020 06:40PM

Judging by this video shot on the streets of New York in 1982 people looked happier on the streets of New York then, than they do today.

FatherTed · 27-08-2020 07:59PM

I live in Connecticut about an hour out of NYC. I love NYC to visit but wouldn't want to live there although I'd probably say the same about any large city. We usually go in once every 1-2 months either to visit friends or just walk about although we haven't been since Covid. There are a a zillion great places to eat, we're also into museums and theatre and I particularly like going to different sections like Arthur Ave area in the Bronx, Greenpoint, Chelsea, East Village. It's much safer and cleaner now than when I came here first 25 years ago.

27-08-2020 10:38PM

ShatterAlan wrote: »

This article pretty much echos what you said:

https://nypost.com/2020/08/17/nyc-is-dead-forever-heres-why-james-altucher/?fbclid=IwAR2jH7P7yf6Yg49jaouObIIETeiReAYCOWvHHN5MHHF3g6AgYyaxfiP_Mc4

So interesting, as so often happens in economics, NY will be a victim of its success. Huge property prices over the last 20 years mean the city is uncompetitive at a crucial time.

riclad · 27-08-2020 11:14PM

I read an article, it says high class retail outlets in NYC are closing, the rich are leaving new York, it makes no sense to pay high rents in NYC
when you customers are no longer living there.
The offices are empty. With a reduced police presence and more homeless people on the streets middle class people are just choosing to leave NYC. So many people are working from home there's no reason to stay in the city when you can live anywhere that has broadband.
Moving company's are working 7 days a week.
Alot of shops and cafes rely on business from
office workers who now work from home.
I don't know if NYC can recover from this
, big company's like airlines are letting 1000,s of people go.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater · 27-08-2020 11:23PM

I did a J1 in NYC in 2005 and loved the place. Went back there in 2016 and it had changed and developed so much in those 10 years, not surprising for a city of its size. Everything seemed to be twice the price of what I remembered and the amount of development around Midtown and Brooklyn was hard to believe.

Great city, looking forward to going back.

hynesie08 · 28-08-2020 12:15AM

riclad wrote: »

I read an article, it says high class retail outlets in NYC are closing, the rich are leaving new York, it makes no sense to pay high rents in NYC
when you customers are no longer living there.
The offices are empty. With a reduced police presence and more homeless people on the streets middle class people are just choosing to leave NYC. So many people are working from home there's no reason to stay in the city when you can live anywhere that has broadband.
Moving company's are working 7 days a week.
Alot of shops and cafes rely on business from
office workers who now work from home.
I don't know if NYC can recover from this
, big company's like airlines are letting 1000,s of people go.

A lot of those shops are all fur coat and no knickers, they were paying huge rents and advertising costs but barely breaking even, covid wiped them out.

New York will bounce back, as long as it's the financial capital of America the people will return, tourists will be back, it'll look a bit different but it'll still be NYC.

murpho999 · 28-08-2020 02:07AM

Capt. Autumn wrote: »

Judging by this video shot on the streets of New York in 1982 people looked happier on the streets of New York then, than they do today.

Good video, haven't heard that in years.

Wouldn't use it as a barometer of people's happiness though.

Most were happy as they were in her video, especially the men. She's 75 year old now by the way.

AllForIt · 28-08-2020 02:14AM

Capt. Autumn wrote: »

Judging by this video shot on the streets of New York in 1982 people looked happier on the streets of New York then, than they do today.

I would have loved to live in NY in the 80's.

Yyhhuuu · 28-08-2020 02:53AM

Remember NYC seemed so exciting from MTUSA. Visited it after 911 as got cheap aer lingus flights with meal and drinks for next to nothing. Had good time there but it opened my eyes to poverty. Homeless 'bag ladies' in Washjngton Sq., lines of rough sleepers in Penn station. Rats coming up the steps of subway, lots of Rats crossing the road. Very expensive. San Francisco also has a very serious homeless problem. You really do see poverty in American cities. You need to be rich in these big cities.
Cenral London, Paris etc is so clean in comparison to what I saw in Manhattan/Chelsea where I stayed.

Btw love that Carly Simon song...so uplifting.

razorblunt · 28-08-2020 08:07AM

It's grand, definitely a city you should see at least once and try to get locals knowledge of bars to go to.
Next time I do end up there I'm staying in a borough across the water rather than Manhattan.

Wanderer78 · 28-08-2020 08:11AM

riclad wrote:

I read an article, it says high class retail outlets in NYC are closing, the rich are leaving new York, it makes no sense to pay high rents in NYC when you customers are no longer living there. The offices are empty. With a reduced police presence and more homeless people on the streets middle class people are just choosing to leave NYC. So many people are working from home there's no reason to stay in the city when you can live anywhere that has broadband. Moving company's are working 7 days a week. Alot of shops and cafes rely on business from office workers who now work from home. I don't know if NYC can recover from this , big company's like airlines are letting 1000,s of people go.

.....the richest country on the planet, and we ve gone down a similar road, economically!

beauf · 28-08-2020 10:11AM

Adelina Repulsive Tournament wrote: »

Seems to have lost any character.

Back in 80's, well....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvtFcK8BaY8

Too much character, that was it's problem back then.

Opinions on this city?

I honestly think it's totally overhyped, primarily a product of American inflationism and Hollywood.

A concrete and commute nightmare, and it certainly never sleeps cause of its awesome nightlife, more so because you spend so long commuting and so long working, that you never get the chance.

.....

Though honestly I was walking around north side Dublin last week and that other scene from Taxi Driver just popped in my head,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFme5QgpJxo

There's gotta be some kind of happy middle ground, no?

I was in New York in the early 90s not for long but enough to see it and it was exactly like it was on TV. Half of it was no go areas. I thought LA was more dangerous though. Lots of no go areas there also at that time.

I wouldn't have said it was exciting, more run down, dirty and dangerous. Port Authority bus station was line something out of Blade Runner. But not fun, you were on edge all the time. .

LA was worst, getting off the bus on arrival the driver warned the entire bus not to get taxis everywhere and not walk as it was too dangerous.

But then lots of Dublin was pretty grim back then.

Maybe you should try living in the high crime areas around the world and recreate it for yourself.

Errashareesh · 28-08-2020 12:04PM

Documentary footage from late 70s/early 80s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O596IE9k1Ck

"Crime up 8 million per cent" lol. Love the Huggy Bear guy.

riclad · 28-08-2020 12:26PM

People dont walk in la, unless they are homeless or junkie,s , criminal,s .
they drive or get a bus .
People are leaving LA too, because of rising crime, homeless people,the covid crisis, if you are going to work from home you may as well buy a house at a resonable price in a Safe suburb.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8631063/Hollywood-Apocalypse-rich-famous-fleeing-droves.html
New york is in danger of going back to the 70,s .
its hard to raise taxs and run a city properly if all the rich people decide to leave.
Taxs are higher in nyc than in most states in america.

beauf · 28-08-2020 12:49PM

There's a difference in not walking because the distances are too big even in towns and not walking because the streets are too dangerous.

The other thing in the 90s it was very difficult to do anything in the States without a credit card. Which wasnt that common in Ireland at that time. Paying for things cash was impossible for things like hiring a car etc. People assumed you were dodgy if you paid for everything in cash.

If you think it was more interesting maybe you'd like some of the roughest places in Ireland in the 80s and 90s?

Errashareesh · 28-08-2020 01:06PM

I'm always looking up lists of the most dangerous cities in the world (outside of war zones). Slight variables in each list but Dublin is never ever there. No European city is. It's mostly Latin America (particularly Mexico, Colombia and Brazil), a handful between South Africa and Jamaica, randomly Papua New Guinea, and the US of A.

1980's New York City - better or worse than today?

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