Police shootings, vigilante shootings, and Black Lives Matter

everlast75 · 27-08-2020 8:27am #1

You have to look on in utter amazement at the U.S. right wing media right nowand how they cover for the GOP.

1) shooter appears at trump really
2) mcCloskeys put up as an example of how to treat protesters
3) shooter takes law into his own hands
4) Carlson runs with this

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1298774120599973889?s=09

5) NY post runs with this

https://twitter.com/nypost/status/1298779873939521536?s=19

Wanderer78 · 27-08-2020 8:31am

everlast75 wrote:

You have to look on in utter amazement at the U.S. right wing media right nowand how they cover for the GOP.

Why would you even bother looking at it

everlast75 · 27-08-2020 8:40am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Why would you even bother looking at it

You could say the same about anything related to Trump.

Wanderer78 · 27-08-2020 8:42am

everlast75 wrote:

You could say the same about anything related to Trump.

Completely, boards is more or less as far as I go with that chap, and even at that, it's probably not worth it, life's too short

StringerBell · 27-08-2020 8:48am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Why would you even bother looking at it

It's always good to be aware tbh

Wanderer78 · 27-08-2020 9:41am

still dont know what to think of this, havent woken up yet!

https://twitter.com/i/status/1298344285079838720

everlast75 · 27-08-2020 9:44am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

still dont know what to think of this, havent woken up yet!

https://twitter.com/i/status/1298344285079838720

IMHO it's absolutely wrong and unfortunately will be held up as "typical" of "cancel culture".

Wanderer78 · 27-08-2020 9:46am

everlast75 wrote: »

IMHO it's absolutely wrong and unfortunately will be held up as "typical" of "cancel culture".

still cant really process it, but it certainly looks wrong

ancapailldorcha · 27-08-2020 10:32am

Snappy comments are not permitted on this forum. Post deleted.

ELM327 · 27-08-2020 10:35am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

still dont know what to think of this, havent woken up yet!

https://twitter.com/i/status/1298344285079838720

Lets try this again.
This is a good example of why these people are often held up by those outside of cancel culture as not being the "peaceful" protesters they claim to be.

Wanderer78 · 27-08-2020 10:37am

ELM327 wrote: »

Lets try this again.
This is a good example of why these people are often held up by those outside of cancel culture as not being the "peaceful" protesters they claim to be.

anger can bring out the worst in us all, but that doesnt make this behavior right

Brian? · 27-08-2020 11:46am

It would be extremely short sighted to think this is about the people murdered recently by police officers. The protesters are angry because this has been happening unseen for decades. The police are murdering black men because that’s what they’ve always done and always gotten away with it.

This is the first generation where everyone walks around with a video camera in their pocket, so a light is being shone on the problem. Imagine how it feels to know this had been happening and you’ve been ignored for decades.

If I was an African American I’m not sure I’d be as restrained as these protesters.

everlast75 · 27-08-2020 12:09pm

Brian? wrote: »

It would be extremely short sighted to think this is about the people murdered recently by police officers. The protesters are angry because this has been happening unseen for decades. The police are murdering black men because that’s what they’ve always done and always gotten away with it.

This is the first generation where everyone walks around with a video camera in their pocket, so a light is being shone on the problem. Imagine how it feels to know this had been happening and you’ve been ignored for decades.

If I was an African American I’m not sure I’d be as restrained as these protesters.

The catholics up north went to war because of discrimination, police brutality and being shot at while peacefully protesting.

Itssoeasy · 27-08-2020 12:27pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

still dont know what to think of this, havent woken up yet!

https://twitter.com/i/status/1298344285079838720

That was horrible **** to see. Just because the Fox News side is taking the piss doesn’t mean the BLM side can do stuff like this. As far as I know the couple are okay and the woman was quoted as saying she marched in protests in D.C. but apparently unless you’re lock step you’re not on their side.

Wanderer78 · 27-08-2020 12:28pm

Itssoeasy wrote: »

That was horrible **** to see. Just because the other side is taking the piss doesn’t mean your side can do stuff like this. As far as I know the couple are okay and the woman was quoted as saying she marched in protests in D.C. but apparently unless you’re lock step you’re not on their side.

my side?

Itssoeasy · 27-08-2020 12:31pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

my side?

No sorry I meant the BLM side as opposed to the Fox News side.

Jimbob1977 · 27-08-2020 12:31pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

still dont know what to think of this, havent woken up yet!

https://twitter.com/i/status/1298344285079838720

Completely unacceptable.

If you resort to intimidation, you are losing the argument

Harassing random people in the street or a restaurant is 1930s style politics

Water John · 27-08-2020 12:33pm

So will Trump grant this young lad a pardon?

Jimbob1977 · 27-08-2020 12:37pm

Water John wrote: »

So will Trump grant this young lad a pardon?

The boy might have escaped 100% if he was a Wisconsin citizen and 18 years old.

His age and residency will ensure that he sees jail time.

Trump might pardon him in the closing days of his presidency (either Term 1 or Term 2).

Brian? · 27-08-2020 12:38pm

Water John wrote: »

So will Trump grant this young lad a pardon?

Fortunately he'll be prosecuted by the state not federally, so only the Governer of Wi can pardon him.

everlast75 · 27-08-2020 12:41pm

Water John wrote: »

So will Trump grant this young lad a pardon?

Maybe he'll invite him to speak tonight at the convention?

Chips Lovell · 27-08-2020 12:54pm

Mod Note

everlast75 wrote: »

Maybe he'll invite him to speak tonight at the convention?

Serious posts only please. Last warning

everlast75 · 27-08-2020 1:12pm

I was being facetious.

However, the McCloskeys waived guns around at protesters. That was a criminal offence. They were invited to speak at the GOP convention.

This guy has Carlson and Coulter painting him out to be a hero. You have Gaetz calling for more.

You have this guy front and centre at a Trump rally.

As ridiculous as it sounds, whilst he won't be invited, expect words from DJT both sides-ing the incident.

AbusesToilets · 27-08-2020 2:08pm

Brian? wrote: »

It would be extremely short sighted to think this is about the people murdered recently by police officers. The protesters are angry because this has been happening unseen for decades. The police are murdering black men because that’s what they’ve always done and always gotten away with it.

This is the first generation where everyone walks around with a video camera in their pocket, so a light is being shone on the problem. Imagine how it feels to know this had been happening and you’ve been ignored for decades.

If I was an African American I’m not sure I’d be as restrained as these protesters.

This is a subversive political movement, driven by a desire to foster division in society and forment maximum disruption prior to the election imo. This latest round of NBA protests for example are farcical. Decrying the justified shooting of Blake, while saying absolutely nothing about violence in their communities. Given the idolisation of professional athletes, their speaking out against that would be far more profound, than pushing a false narrative about police killings.

Tacitus Kilgore · 27-08-2020 2:17pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

This is a subversive political movement, driven by a desire to foster division in society and forment maximum disruption prior to the election imo. This latest round of NBA protests for example are farcical. Decrying the justified shooting of Blake, while saying absolutely nothing about violence in their communities. Given the idolisation of professional athletes, their speaking out against that would be far more profound, than pushing a false narrative about police killings.

Sounds like basically everything that was written about catholics in the north of this country by British media in the 60s/70s/80s/90s.

everlast75 · 27-08-2020 2:21pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

This is a subversive political movement, driven by a desire to foster division in society and forment maximum disruption prior to the election imo.

You're talking about the 45th President here I presume?

AbusesToilets wrote: »

This latest round of NBA protests for example are farcical. Decrying the justified shooting of Blake

Who said it was justified?

AbusesToilets wrote: »

while saying absolutely nothing about violence in their communities. Given the idolisation of professional athletes, their speaking out against that would be far more profound, than pushing a false narrative about police killings.

Incredible ignorance on display here with this statement.

For decades, black people have been told by white people how to protest.

March? No, not allowed. People were beaten and killed.

Sit down protests? People were dragged from the streets.

Take a knee? No, that's disrespectful to the flag.

Black people have had enough. I for one, don't agree with rioting, but I sure as hell understand it.

AbusesToilets · 27-08-2020 2:32pm

everlast75 wrote: »

You're talking about the 45th President here I presume?

Who said it was justified?

Incredible ignorance on display here with this statement.

For decades, black people have been told by white people how to protest.

March? No, not allowed. People were beaten and killed.

Sit down protests? People were dragged from the streets.

Take a knee? No, that's disrespectful to the flag.

Black people have had enough. I for one, don't agree with rioting, but I sure as hell understand it.

The false narrative of systematic racism in relation to policing, that says black people are targeted and killed due to bigotry.

looksee · 27-08-2020 2:34pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

This is a subversive political movement, driven by a desire to foster division in society and forment maximum disruption prior to the election imo. This latest round of NBA protests for example are farcical. Decrying the justified shooting of Blake, while saying absolutely nothing about violence in their communities. Given the idolisation of professional athletes, their speaking out against that would be far more profound, than pushing a false narrative about police killings.

I think you need to explain this statement.

I did not see anything on video that suggested it was necessary to shoot Blake. Regardless of what may have gone on before, regardless of whether the police wanted to stop him getting into his car, there is no justification for shooting a person in the back at close range.

AbusesToilets · 27-08-2020 2:36pm

looksee wrote: »

I think you need to explain this statement.

I did not see anything on video that suggested it was necessary to shoot Blake. Regardless of what may have gone on before, regardless of whether the police wanted to stop him getting into his car, there is no justification for shooting a person in the back at close range.

From information being released, he was armed, police attempted to restrain him, he resisted. Tazers were employed but ineffective, he refused to obey orders to stop, despite having guns drawn on him. Reached into the car. That's a justified shooting imo.

JimmyVik · 27-08-2020 2:46pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

still dont know what to think of this, havent woken up yet!

https://twitter.com/i/status/1298344285079838720

When you become what you are protesting to stop.

Its basically a video version of social media. A cesspool of bullies.

27-08-2020 2:51pm

JimmyVik wrote: »

When you become what you are protesting to stop.

Its basically a video version of social media. A cesspool of bullies.

I agree 100%

also they don't know they're being manipulated either. The feel this is a new age of reason and they're the enlightened ones. Entitled would be more accurate.
If they watched the BIG Hack, they'd realise how easily this stuff can be done, ****ing drones, dragging themselves out of their parents basements, pink binary hair and all!

Charles Babbage · 27-08-2020 2:53pm

Brian? wrote: »

It would be extremely short sighted to think this is about the people murdered recently by police officers. The protesters are angry because this has been happening unseen for decades. The police are murdering black men because that’s what they’ve always done and always gotten away with it.

This is the first generation where everyone walks around with a video camera in their pocket, so a light is being shone on the problem. Imagine how it feels to know this had been happening and you’ve been ignored for decades.

If I was an African American I’m not sure I’d be as restrained as these protesters.

Nevertheless, if these protests get taken over by hangers on who want to loot and pillage then they will not improve things. Martin Luther King did not advance people's rights by burning cars etc but by having orderly protests. It might require more imagination, especially as marches etc are not appropriate in a pandemic, but suitable responses and not kneejerk ones are needed.

Wanderer78 · 27-08-2020 2:54pm

rusty cole wrote:

also they don't know they're being manipulated either. The feel this is a new age of reason and they're the enlightened ones. Entitled would be more accurate. If they watched the BIG Hack, they'd realise how easily this stuff can be done, ****ing drones, dragging themselves out of their parents basements, pink binary hair and all!

Was unaware this type of personal information was released!

Brian? · 27-08-2020 4:39pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

This is a subversive political movement,

Good, the political order in the US needs some subversion that isn't supplied by a populist thug.

driven by a desire to foster division in society and forment maximum disruption prior to the election imo.

You opinion based on what exactly? The protests flair up every time the police murder a black person, I think it's far more related to this than the election cycle.

This latest round of NBA protests for example are farcical. Decrying the justified shooting of Blake, while saying absolutely nothing about violence in their communities. Given the idolisation of professional athletes, their speaking out against that would be far more profound, than pushing a false narrative about police killings.

There was nothing justified about the killing, you just think there was.

You also ignore the amount of work done by professional athletes done in their communities in an attempt to end gang violence. Unfortunately unsuccessful attempts, because the poverty and disenfranchisement that created the ghetto culture still exist.

Brian? · 27-08-2020 4:41pm

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Nevertheless, if these protests get taken over by hangers on who want to loot and pillage then they will not improve things. Martin Luther King did not advance people's rights by burning cars etc but by having orderly protests. It might require more imagination, especially as marches etc are not appropriate in a pandemic, but suitable responses and not kneejerk ones are needed.

You know what I do, I ignore the looting. Because it's a distraction from the genuine protests.

Of course it's wrong, but it's too often used to delegitimise perfectly legitimate protests. Which is why you end up with 17 year old kids strapping on an AR 15 and travelling to another state to become a vigilante.

StringerBell · 27-08-2020 4:55pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

The false narrative of systematic racism in relation to policing, that says black people are targeted and killed due to bigotry.

Justified shooting?

Was I misled? I have only heard so far that the man was unarmed, had been intervening in a fight, tried to get back in the car with his three kids in the back, and was grabbed from.behind by the cop with the funny name, held in place almost by his t-shirt and shot 7 times in the back from point blank range?

Is that wrong?

Jimbob1977 · 27-08-2020 5:02pm

StringerBell wrote: »

Justified shooting?

Was I misled? I have only heard so far that the man was unarmed, had been intervening in a fight, tried to get back in the car with his three kids in the back, and was grabbed from.behind by the cop with the funny name, held in place almost by his t-shirt and shot 7 times in the back from point blank range?

Is that wrong?

The Wisconsin Department of Justice has stated that he was carrying a knife outside the car.

It was found on the driver seat mat (presumably he dropped it after being shot).

I'm not sure if the family are contesting the claim.

He has some kind of restraining order against him.

AbusesToilets · 27-08-2020 5:06pm

Brian? wrote: »

Good, the political order in the US needs some subversion that isn't supplied by a populist thug.

You opinion based on what exactly? The protests flair up every time the police murder a black person, I think it's far more related to this than the election cycle.

I think they are driven by opportunism, for the enrichment of those running the organisation that you claim doesn't exist as an organisation. Right out of the Al Sharpton school of social activitism.

Brian? wrote: »

nothing justified about the killing, you just think there was.

It was absolutely justified, given the actions of Blake, similar to the Brooks shooting. You can't fight/ resist police, present yourself as a threat with a weapon and expect a good outcome.

Brian? wrote: »

You also ignore the amount of work done by professional athletes done in their communities in an attempt to end gang violence. Unfortunately unsuccessful attempts, because the poverty and disenfranchisement that created the ghetto culture still exist.

Nothing to do with the culture of these black communities though right? Always an external factor. I don't deny the amount of charitable work that athletes conduct, it's one of the best aspects of US sports. I'm tired of the dishonesty that happens when there's a situation where there are accusations of racism that are later shown to be false. Usually after substantial rioting and destruction, in black communities, that serve to further impoverish them. Police brutality, keeping the man down, not the rampant crime and violence in their communities.

Water John · 27-08-2020 5:26pm

We'll hopefully learn more details. But as it stands nobody has said anywhere that he threatened the police officers with the knife. Thus no justification for shooting him. Shooting someone 7/8 times in the back, is attempted murder.

Amazing comrarderie between the vigilantes and some police officers. Info Wars exorted militia from out of State to go to Kenosha.

Brian? · 27-08-2020 6:51pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I think they are driven by opportunism, for the enrichment of those running the organisation that you claim doesn't exist as an organisation. Right out of the Al Sharpton school of social activitism.

They are driven by anger IMO, and they have a right to be angry. What organisation are they enriching exactly?

It was absolutely justified, given the actions of Blake, similar to the Brooks shooting. You can't fight/ resist police, present yourself as a threat with a weapon and expect a good outcome.

Actually, you can. Lethal force is only justifiable when the Police officers life is in in danger. I am waiting to hear if this was the case this time, you've made up your mind.

AFAIK, Brooks was shot running away after resisting arrest. You think it's ok to kill people for running away? The Atlanta PD certainly don't, the officer involved has been charged with murder.

Nothing to do with the culture of these black communities though right? Always an external factor. I don't deny the amount of charitable work that athletes conduct, it's one of the best aspects of US sports. I'm tired of the dishonesty that happens when there's a situation where there are accusations of racism that are later shown to be false. Usually after substantial rioting and destruction, in black communities, that serve to further impoverish them. Police brutality, keeping the man down, not the rampant crime and violence in their communities.

It has a lot to do with the culture. Culture isn't born from a vacuum though.

FatherTed · 27-08-2020 7:02pm

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

The Wisconsin Department of Justice has stated that he was carrying a knife outside the car.

It was found on the driver seat mat (presumably he dropped it after being shot).

I'm not sure if the family are contesting the claim.

He has some kind of restraining order against him.

That is a lie. They did not say he was carrying a knife outside the car.

This is the WI DOJ actual statement:

During the incident, officers attempted to arrest Jacob S. Blake, age 29. Law enforcement deployed a taser to attempt to stop Mr. Blake, however the taser was not successful in stopping Mr. Blake. Mr. Blake walked around his vehicle, opened the driver’s side door, and leaned forward. While holding onto Mr. Blake’s shirt, Officer Rusten Sheskey fired his service weapon 7 times. Officer Sheskey fired the weapon into Mr. Blake’s back. No other officer fired their weapon. Kenosha Police Department does not have body cameras, therefore the officers were not wearing body cameras.

The shooting officer, Kenosha Police Officer Rusten Sheskey, has been a law enforcement officer with Kenosha Police Department for seven years.

During the investigation following the initial incident, Mr. Blake admitted that he had a knife in his possession. DCI agents recovered a knife from the driver’s side floorboard of Mr. Blake’s vehicle. A search of the vehicle located no additional weapons.

https://www.doj.state.wi.us/news-releases/update-kenosha-officer-involved-shooting-0

AbusesToilets · 27-08-2020 7:35pm

Brian? wrote: »

They are driven by anger IMO, and they have a right to be angry. What organisation are they enriching exactly?

Actually, you can. Lethal force is only justifiable when the Police officers life is in in danger. I am waiting to hear if this was the case this time, you've made up your mind.

AFAIK, Brooks was shot running away after resisting arrest. You think it's ok to kill people for running away? The Atlanta PD certainly don't, the officer involved has been charged with murder.

It has a lot to do with the culture. Culture isn't born from a vacuum though.

They're enriching themselves for one, as the opacity and evasion regarding what happens with the donations they receive shows. They are also channeling a significant portion of the money towards the Democratic party, who just happen to be fully in support of them.

The DA in the Brooks case is up for election, and throwing **** at the wall hoping to get up support. He's also under multiple investigations for corruption himself. The charges are junk, fighting the police and taking their weapon is going to get you shot, all day long

Brian? · 27-08-2020 7:37pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

They're enriching themselves for one, as the opacity and evasion regarding what happens with the donations they receive shows. They are also channeling a significant portion of the money towards the Democratic party, who just happen to be fully in support of them.

Are you talking about BLM here? You've lost me.

The DA in the Brooks case is up for election, and throwing **** at the wall hoping to get up support. He's also under multiple investigations for corruption himself. The charges are junk, fighting the police and taking their weapon is going to get you shot, all day long

You didn't answer the question. Do you think it's justifiable for the police to shoot someone who's running away and presents no threat to the officers or the public?

AbusesToilets · 27-08-2020 7:47pm

Brian? wrote: »

Are you talking about BLM here? You've lost me.

Yes, I am referring to BLM, as you obviously know, despite your feigned ignorance. Are you about to claim they're a movement, not an organisation again?

Brian? wrote: »

You didn't answer the question. Do you think it's justifiable for the police to shoot someone who's running away and presents no threat to the officers or the public?

He did present a threat, turning your back doesn't magically erase your actions of the prior moments.

Brian? · 27-08-2020 7:52pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Yes, I am referring to BLM, as you obviously know, despite your feigned ignorance. Are you about to claim they're a movement, not an organisation again?

Ha? I was confused because you said I denied they were an organisation. I don't recall ever doing that about BLM, but I did about Antifa.

He did present a threat, turning your back doesn't magically erase your actions of the prior moments.

Nope, wrong. That's why the officer is being charged with murder. It's up to a jury to decide now, not 2 random posters on the internet.

AbusesToilets · 27-08-2020 8:00pm

Brian? wrote: »

Ha? I was confused because you said I denied they were an organisation. I don't recall ever doing that about BLM, but I did about Antifa.

Nope, wrong. That's why the officer is being charged with murder. It's up to a jury to decide now, not 2 random posters on the internet.

Well, it's not wrong, that's your opinion. I fully expect the officer to be exonerated.

Water John · 27-08-2020 8:07pm

This report indicates links between many police forces and militias. A lot of these police forces will have to undergo radical restructuring and cultural change, similar to what happened in NI.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/27/white-supremacists-militias-infiltrate-us-police-report

The shooter may have been one of the vigilantes given water by a policeman. One policeman thanked them for coming over a loudspeaker !!!!

Brian? · 28-08-2020 1:47am

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Well, it's not wrong, that's your opinion. I fully expect the officer to be exonerated.

It’s funny how you started with the opinion that the killing was “absolutely justified”

robertpatterson · 28-08-2020 2:44am

If the police report is correct and he was tased and that didn't stop him and opened his drivers door in the full knowledge that he had a knife in the drivers side then I'd say it was justified.
He could have hurt anyone if he had a knife including the children, the officers or passers by.

guitarhappy · 28-08-2020 2:56am

Keep in mind that burning cars and buildings, or looting, are valid forms of social protest by dis-enfranchised people's. They are NOT crimes of violence, although they are often mislabeled as such. They are property crimes.

Crimes of violence are committed against the body of human beings, people. Black people are simply saying "Stop murdering us in cold blood. Stop shooting unarmed Black people in the back. Get your jack boot off my throat."

Frankie Machine · 28-08-2020 2:56am

everlast75 wrote: »

I was being facetious.

However, the McCloskeys waived guns around at protesters. That was a criminal offence. They were invited to speak at the GOP convention.

This guy has Carlson and Coulter painting him out to be a hero. You have Gaetz calling for more.

You have this guy front and centre at a Trump rally.

As ridiculous as it sounds, whilst he won't be invited, expect words from DJT both sides-ing the incident.

Trespassers.

Police shootings, vigilante shootings, and Black Lives Matter

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