How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

am_zarathustra · 26-08-2020 07:57PM

Sunday Sunday wrote: »

People should be allowed to ask what's going to be used in their school without being mocked ( by someone who isn't a parent or teacher no less).

I don't have that problem because we're being told to supply our own but not all schools will be the same and parents will have these questions.

Sunday Sunday wrote: »

It doesn't change the fact that it's a perfectly reasonable question for a parent to ask.

What you did as imply it wasn't safe......with no evidence to back that up. I pointed out the many reasons it is safe due to having quite a bit of knowledge in the area having worked in professional science and being a teacher......of science.....in a school.....where I order gels and alcohols etc very regularly.

You weren't asking a question, a question is "Does anyone know how hand sanitising gels are regulated?" or "I've seen some articles online and I was wondering does anyone know if this is the case in Ireland?" These questions would have elicited a helpful response from people with experience. What you did was put a reckless comment comparing regulations in two jurisdictions and spreading misinformation.

Sunday Sunday · 26-08-2020 07:58PM

am_zarathustra wrote: »

What you did as imply it wasn't safe......with no evidence to back that up. I pointed out the many reasons it is safe due to having quite a bit of knowledge in the area having worked in professional scientist and being a teacher......of science.....in a school.....where I order gels and alcohols etc very regularly.

You weren't asking a question, a question is "Does anyone know how hand sanitising gels are regulated?" or "I've seen some articles online and I was wondering does anyone know if this is the case in Ireland?" These questions would have elicited a helpful response from people with experience. What you did was put a reckless comment comparing regulations in two jurisdictions and spreading misinformation.

Another poster asked the question and was ridiculed for doing so. This is probably something that parents will want to know.

am_zarathustra · 26-08-2020 08:02PM

So ask. Don't cast aspersions. I am happy to explain any aspect of it you are concerned about. I also have a few options bought in in case kids have particular skin issues, again happy to share this info. I think there is so much misinformation and blatant lies around that is is very important we, especially as adults, are very careful to research information before spreading it to other concern parents or nervous kids.

SusanC10 · 26-08-2020 08:10PM

harr wrote: »

Glad to here some were wearing masks, our son returns tomorrow and someone at home has a weak immune system so we were debating if he should wear a mask in and out of school and out in yard.
We really didn’t want him to be the only one wearing one and having him stand out. I might put one in a ziplock and put it into his bag anyway and see if more are wearing them.

Our daughter in Primary will wear a Mask inside the school building and won't when outside.
We are hoping that she won't be the only one but she is aware that she may be.

Sunday Sunday · 26-08-2020 08:36PM

downthemiddle wrote: »

Do the FDA or Health Canada have responsibility in our jurisdiction?

Recalls have not been confined to the US and Canada. EU recalls have been issued by EU Rapex for the same reasons.

am_zarathustra · 26-08-2020 08:53PM

I just looked at Rapex there, a couple of local producers selling product that looks like you'd buy it out of the boot of a car. In context, there are 3 times as many stroller recalls on the last 5 pages than anything else. The two I've looked at were recalled (not technically correct) because they had never been given EU clearance. Buy hand sanitiser....like anything medical or involved in personal care, from a reputable shop. Boots aren't stocking turkish hand sanitiser with no eu clearance.

Do you use antibacterial soap? That might actually be dangerous.......definitely more likely than ethanol

irishblessing · 26-08-2020 08:54PM

downthemiddle wrote: »

You don’t want your children wearing masks. You don’t want your children getting the flu vaccine or the Covid vaccine when one becomes available. You don’t want your children to use the sanitiser provided by the school in case they poison them. I can see now why you have been so critical of teachers.

Chiming in here on the sanitiser issue. We use organic/natural products on our children whenever possible since they were born. In fact same goes for my spouse and I too. I very much care what sanitiser is being used at school as we were also told not to bring our own and use the school's. I've purchased a Dr. Bronner's one for kids anyway and has the minimum needed alcohol content so hopefully won't be too drying. Since they'd be using it all day presumably it matters what they put on their skin (the body's largest organ actually) all day every day. I don't think it's silly to want to know and be concerned.

am_zarathustra · 26-08-2020 09:06PM

There is ethanol in your body. Also you skin is quite a good impermeable membrane, if it was letting all and sundry in we would all have sepsis constantly. Standard ethanol isn't getting in through your skin, it's large and polar. It's nothing to worry about for your kids. In context, I use mostly natural products, especially when it comes to cleaning. Most hand sanitisers (and I've looked at a lot) are really just ethanol and gylcerine (that's the stuff in icing etc, so safe for consumption so very safe for hands). You are right to watch the alcohol content, above 60% is sufficient.

The formula is the the same for the Dr Bronners but it will have some nice natural oils (my own personal one does too). I agree with you with regards ethics, I'd be conscious of it being as environmentally friendly as possible given the amount we will use over the next while so going with a trusted company for those reasons is very valid.

isup · 26-08-2020 09:20PM

irishblessing wrote: »

Chiming in here on the sanitiser issue. We use organic/natural products on our children whenever possible since they were born. In fact same goes for my spouse and I too. I very much care what sanitiser is being used at school as we were also told not to bring our own and use the school's. I've purchased a Dr. Bronner's one for kids anyway and has the minimum needed alcohol content so hopefully won't be too drying. Since they'd be using it all day presumably it matters what they put on their skin (the body's largest organ actually) all day every day. I don't think it's silly to want to know and be concerned.

I use some Dr. Bronners products. What % is that one? Will have a look for it tomorrow. Thanks

i_surge · 26-08-2020 09:25PM

Of all the issues with glorious plan, the composition of hand sanitiser is the least of your worries.

Supposed to be washing hands anyway. Gel as a second resort.

i_surge · 26-08-2020 09:30PM

Sunday Sunday wrote: »

Yeah, take the piss out a parent who's concerned (rightly so) about what's going to possibly be used by her kids several times a day.

Maybe educate yourself around what's actually been found to be contained in some of these products, yes actual toxins that are dangerous.

Parents should source and supply their own so at least they are safe in the knowledge of what's being used.

As if you can lecture me on ethics based on your lackadaisical approach described in this thread.

Smacruairi · 26-08-2020 09:40PM

Wonder when teachinggal will be back to give out about her colleagues. This thread needs a cheer up after vaccination and sanitiser conspiracies.

irishblessing · 26-08-2020 09:45PM

isup wrote: »

I use some Dr. Bronners products. What % is that one? Will have a look for it tomorrow. Thanks

They're great products...

This hand sanitiser is the organic peppermint oil one with 62% alcohol.

downthemiddle · 26-08-2020 09:58PM

Sunday Sunday wrote: »

Recalls have not been confined to the US and Canada. EU recalls have been issued by EU Rapex for the same reasons.

You’ve already had to do the Phil Hogan once on this thread. Please don’t back yourself into a corner on this one.

caveat emptor · 26-08-2020 10:05PM

am_zarathustra wrote: »

There is ethanol in your body. Also you skin is quite a good impermeable membrane, if it was letting all and sundry in we would all have sepsis constantly. Standard ethanol isn't getting in through your skin, it's large and polar. It's nothing to worry about for your kids. In context, I use mostly natural products, especially when it comes to cleaning. Most hand sanitisers (and I've looked at a lot) are really just ethanol and gylcerine (that's the stuff in icing etc, so safe for consumption so very safe for hands). You are right to watch the alcohol content, above 60% is sufficient.

The formula is the the same for the Dr Bronners but it will have some nice natural oils (my own personal one does too). I agree with you with regards ethics, I'd be conscious of it being as environmentally friendly as possible given the amount we will use over the next while so going with a trusted company for those reasons is very valid.

+100. I've found plenty early on that were only mildly alcoholic. I tried to use double the amount to compensate. Not sure that's scientific. I've since sourced some harder stuff.

caveat emptor · 26-08-2020 10:10PM

smellyoldboot wrote: »

Well I had the visit to school and it was just as I feared. A few lines painted in corridors but the class layout is exactly the same as any other year. What made it worse is I counted enough tables and chairs for 21 max children in the class. There will be 29 children supposed to be in that room tomorrow so they will squeeze in another couple of tables in our absence most likely.

Any fears and concerns we put forward we're frankly ignored, we flat out said we would not be sending ours in for at least the first few weeks. Our child was in attendance with us and pretty much all the focus was on repeatedly asking her was she excited for tomorrow, we'll see you tomorrow etc despite us telling them multiple times "tomorrow" is not happening.

Very weird almost Orwellian vibe from it. To top it all off there is a designated "kiss and go" area that was at the time of my visit, one day before school start, obstructed with scaffolding, construction materials and vehicles, reducing said area to about roughly 1.5m/4feet wide of an opening. This is the only entrance available for use for 700+ students and parents.

This is turning into the greatest ****show in the history of the state.

I'm feeling pretty steamrolled into it to be honest. Everyone is all excited about tomorrow.
Statistically the chances of your kid getting it before there is a major outbreak is very low. That's my only solace. I'm afraid to take them out in case they don't get a place or whatever.

screamer · 26-08-2020 10:16PM

Ronan Glynn talking about significant peaks of covid due to opening schools has just heightened my anxiety. I’ve known this anyways and I’ve been incredulously looking at the back to school disaster that is about to unfold, thinking well they mustn’t believe it’s going to be that bad. But no, they know it is, yet we press on with this lunacy. Poor teachers and kids they’re just pawns in all of this farcical get the schools open at any cost bull. Thanks Normal Foley.

the corpo · 26-08-2020 10:28PM

Birdy wrote: »

My daughter's primary school are expecting us to store all her books and copies at home. They will be going back and forth to school. Is this safe?

It should be fine. There's very little evidence of Coronavirus being spread on items like paper or packaging, and as long as efforts are made to prevent sharing of books it shouldn't be an issue. Our school is intending to send books home with the children on a daily basis, especially if another school wide closure happens, so learning can quickly be picked up at home.

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 26-08-2020 10:31PM

the corpo wrote: »

It should be fine. There's very little evidence of Coronavirus being spread on items like paper or packaging, and as long as efforts are made to prevent sharing of books it shouldn't be an issue. Our school is intending to send books home with the children on a daily basis, especially if another school wide closure happens, so learning can quickly be picked up at home.

My daughters school using books at school and ebooks at home. No need to carry anything home in this day and age

khalessi · 26-08-2020 10:31PM

Did ye see the report on the guidelines for supporting at risk children at home.They will be marked present which is good.

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/0826/1161507-school-guidelines/

Schools should attempt to ensure that children with underlying health conditions maintain a meaningful connection with their class and school, and they should ensure "as far as possible" that their learning is in line with the curriculum, and with what their classmates are learning.

"The class teacher should facilitate frequent/weekly opportunities for the pupil learning from home to interact with his/her peers, through online video conferencing and/or collaborative learning activities such as project work, group work and pair work which can be carried out online".

morebabies · 26-08-2020 10:41PM

khalessi wrote: »

Did ye see the report on the guidelines for supporting at risk children at home.They will be marked present which is good.

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/0826/1161507-school-guidelines/

Schools should attempt to ensure that children with underlying health conditions maintain a meaningful connection with their class and school, and they should ensure "as far as possible" that their learning is in line with the curriculum, and with what their classmates are learning.

"The class teacher should facilitate frequent/weekly opportunities for the pupil learning from home to interact with his/her peers, through online video conferencing and/or collaborative learning activities such as project work, group work and pair work which can be carried out online".

Thanks for sharing, any idea where I might find the full document please? I looked on the Department of Education website but can't find it there.

Sunday Sunday · 26-08-2020 10:41PM

downthemiddle wrote: »

You’ve already had to do the Phil Hogan once on this thread. Please don’t back yourself into a corner on this one.

Ah yes mea culpa :rolleyes: I don't accept that

26-08-2020 10:41PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

There is a lot of anxiety out there but it all depends on what you've been doing, I think parents who have had their kids enrolled in activities during the summer(soccer, gaa, athletics etc), have taken a staycation and generally been out and about through most of this are more relaxed, I certainly am.
I can understand if you've been a little locked up your sense of fear is probably off the charts but it's probably not warranted in a lot of communities around the country.
Two weeks will tell a lot, most parents in a few days will be back to normality with just a bigger focus on personal Hygiene.

So you are anti vax, anti mask and are openly admitting to being “out and about” during the pandemic when we were all supposed to be staying at home unless it was vital trips.

Most people are making the effort but some just don’t give an F. We didn’t leave the house bar a brief walk within 1km for nearly 4 months (not even food shopping, got it delivered) I know most people were doing similar but of course a few are not. Things opened up and people were asked to be careful and again most where but some just couldn’t resist going “back to normal” and just had to let their kids mix because of zero common sense or consideration for people.

The fact is the schools should not be opening, it’s far too risky that is clear but it’s being ignored. However since they are opening max precautions are needed, masks should be mandatory for all teachers and students at all times, class sizes limited, tests for teachers at the least etc and no child should be allowed into school without getting the flu vaccine unless there is a medical reason for not getting it.

amacca · 26-08-2020 10:51PM

khalessi wrote: »

"The class teacher should facilitate frequent/weekly opportunities for the pupil learning from home to interact with his/her peers, through online video conferencing and/or collaborative learning activities such as project work, group work and pair work which can be carried out online".

do you think thats possible on top of the normal contact and prep etc etc + whatever abnormal stuff due to the situation you may have to do extra as well...I mean live link from class to home sound good in theory but requires good connection both ends + presumably permission of all parents and teacher being comfortable with being broadcast....and if its not live and just posting notes/work/assessment etc then thats probably not too bad but it could potentially end up being a lot of extra hours (depending on the number of students and classes involved) on top of usual if its live videoconferencing or interactive stuff.....does not seem the most workable

seamus · 26-08-2020 10:52PM

Sunday Sunday wrote: »

Recalls have not been confined to the US and Canada. EU recalls have been issued by EU Rapex for the same reasons.

Six. The EU have issued six recalls. Five of them for having insufficient levels of ethanol.

One of them for containing methanol. One. This was a Turkish-produced gel that appeared only in Denmark.

Of the five crap ones, four were in France, one was in the UK.

It's paranoia to worry that schools are suddenly going to source black market hand sanitiser and poison your kids.

khalessi · 26-08-2020 10:56PM

morebabies wrote: »

Thanks for sharing, any idea where I might find the full document please? I looked on the Department of Education website but can't find it there.

Looking for it myself but just thought I would highlight it in the meantime. Might be online tomorrow

combat14 · 26-08-2020 11:20PM

IRELAND will have 1,000 cases of Covid 19 per day within eight weeks if current trends continue and schools reopen, a top virologist has warned.

University College Cork Professor Gerry Killeen believes schools shouldn't yet reopen as Covid-19 incidence numbers are ten times higher than they were in June.

He states the country faces 10,000 cases of covid a day if we dont change how we are dealing with the virus

"Even without reopening the schools we are already in trouble.

"The tragedy is if we maintained what we were doing all the way up to the end of June we could be reopening the schools safely today.

"That is what is killing me. This is all very predictable."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thesun.ie/news/5828698/coronavirus-in-ireland-warning-thousand-cases-day-schools-reopen/amp/

meeeeh · 26-08-2020 11:23PM

Adrianna Gigantic Moth wrote: »

So you are anti vax, anti mask and are openly admitting to being “out and about” during the pandemic when we were all supposed to be staying at home unless it was vital trips.

Most people are making the effort but some just don’t give an F. We didn’t leave the house bar a brief walk within 1km for nearly 4 months (not even food shopping, got it delivered) I know most people were doing similar but of course a few are not. Things opened up and people were asked to be careful and again most where but some just couldn’t resist going “back to normal” and just had to let their kids mix because of zero common sense or consideration for people.

Do I get this right, you haven't stepped out of the house from middle of March to middle of July, did only 1km walks and got shopping delivered? And most people did the same?

Stop trolling...

irishblessing · 26-08-2020 11:28PM

combat14 wrote: »

IRELAND will have 1,000 cases of Covid 19 per day within eight weeks if current trends continue and schools reopen, a top virologist has warned.

University College Cork Professor Gerry Killeen believes schools shouldn't yet reopen as Covid-19 incidence numbers are ten times higher than they were in June.

He states the country faces 10,000 cases of covid a day if we dont change how we are dealing with the virus

"Even without reopening the schools we are already in trouble.

"The tragedy is if we maintained what we were doing all the way up to the end of June we could be reopening the schools safely today.

"That is what is killing me. This is all very predictable."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thesun.ie/news/5828698/coronavirus-in-ireland-warning-thousand-cases-day-schools-reopen/amp/

feck.

BonsaiKitten · 26-08-2020 11:41PM

meeeeh wrote: »

I think school supplying hand sanitiser is much better. What do you do if kid forgets hand sanitiser? Send them home?

It's about convenience in our place really. We have the communal sanitiser dispensers available alright but it's often easier and quicker for the kids to use their own sanitiser during the day. They tend to like having their own - of absolutely anything tbh - so that's a bonus in their eyes.

If they don't have their own, they just use the school dispensers. Fairly straightforward really.

How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

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