Getting old flatmate to pay their part of the electricity bill

FridaysWell · 26-08-2020 03:40PM #1

Flatmates (a couple) moved out at the start of June. I got a replacement in with no issues. 6 weeks later, at the middle of July, both the replacement and I left the apartment and moved to separate places. We left as our landlord asked us for the apartment back as he was in a tight spot accommodation wise due to C19. We struck a deal with the landlord and happily (i.e. voluntarily left) and found other places easily. As a result I closed the electricity account and was issued a final bill by the utility company. This account is solely in my name, and we split bills 50/50 or 30/30/30 when the couple were living with me.

There was an amount outstanding (~€200) due to being on a 'Level Pay' plan - essentially this averages out your electricity bill over 12 months. Some months you 'overpay' and others you 'underpay' depending on how much electricity you use. Bills are issued every 2 months, with the amount and timing of monthly amounts due clearly displayed along with usage and the overall balance.

The closing bill (and previous bills) clearly show that there €130 of the €200 is from the period when the couple were living in the house. I sent them the final bill and calculations and asked could they send me their share (2/3s of €130). They've refused saying as they've moved out they are no longer responsible, not their fault the landlord moved in and they didn't choose this etc., and are not engaging with me at all. It is quite clear to me - they were living in the house when that electricity was used (as was I) and should pay it. We had an agreement (verbal, informal) where all bills (including rent) went from my accounts and they would pay into my account each month.

Their replies do not make much sense and very 'formal' sounding, where there is no need for this. It's just very strange. Given their past behavior with me (a whole other story) and the way they are just not being reasonable I am mulling over trying to get this sorted another way. The principle of this is what is driving me to take further action as opposed to taking it on the chin (which I did over the course of 18 months or so living with these two).

Is the Small Claims Court an avenue I can go down? Threshold suggested this; it is a nuclear option but I feel that it is the only way to recover the amount. The RTB, Landlord, and utility company were no help which is understandable. Are there any other avenues? A mediation type service or similar?

wench · 26-08-2020 03:44PM

If the previous bills showed the amount owing, then when they were moving out was the time to look for the money.
I'd say you're on a hiding to nothing looking for it now.

is_that_so · 26-08-2020 03:47PM

I agree with the previous poster it will be very hard to recover now. TBH it's under €90, which may be a sum of importance to you, but it looks more like a case of cutting your losses and learning from it.

mickdw · 26-08-2020 03:47PM

I think you messed up in a couple of ways.
Firstly having everything coming from your account means you are coming down with it if things go wrong. Secondly, its abit late now to be chasing bills. Surely you should have read the meter with the couple when leaving and agree split payments up to that point.

FridaysWell · 26-08-2020 03:54PM

wench wrote: »

If the previous bills showed the amount owing, then when they were moving out was the time to look for the money.
I'd say you're on a hiding to nothing looking for it now.

is_that_so wrote: »

I agree with the previous poster it will be very hard to recover now. TBH it's under €90, which may be a sum of importance to you, but it looks more like a case of cutting your losses and learning from it.

mickdw wrote: »

I think you messed up in a couple of ways.
Firstly having everything coming from your account means you are coming down with it if things go wrong. Secondly, its abit late now to be chasing bills. Surely you should have read the meter with the couple when leaving and agree split payments up to that point.

I agree - I did mess up and should have asked for the amount when they moved out. Only excuses I have are I was quite busy with work and other things, and the monthly amount we pay is low so i figured why bother them with it - the only reason this amount came to light was because I had to close the electricity bill. Timing is unfortunate, but its black and white. We did not read the meter when they left.

The latest flatmate didn't use the electricity from before so they should (and have) only paid for the portion they used. When I got the closing bill I took a look at it and the right and fair thing to do is to get the couple to pay their part.

Its a small amount for sure, but given all that I did for them (I know this means nothing bar good faith) I'm finding their behavior and responses really frustrating and wrong. That's why I am chasing this amount.

Is Smalls Claims an option?

jimmycrackcorm · 26-08-2020 04:04PM

No. Small claims is not an option. It's for claims against a business.

PhilOssophy · 26-08-2020 04:05PM

Don't waste your time and energy OP, we have all been stung like this in the past. It is an occupational hazard of renting.
Move on and learn for the next time, get the meter read or calculate how much it is to the best of your knowledge. Ideally get a reading to the electricity company and sort it out then.
Its a bit unreasonable of them over such a small sum of money as well but cest la vie.

893bet · 26-08-2020 04:18PM

Too late.

Let it go and forget it. It’s a small lesson. Could have been worse!

FridaysWell · 26-08-2020 04:19PM

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Don't waste your time and energy OP, we have all been stung like this in the past. It is an occupational hazard of renting.
Move on and learn for the next time, get the meter read or calculate how much it is to the best of your knowledge. Ideally get a reading to the electricity company and sort it out then.
Its a bit unreasonable of them over such a small sum of money as well but cest la vie.

The reason I am putting time and energy into this is because what they are doing is wrong (in my eyes). I've been beyond good to both of them, but they insist on just being unreasonable. Let me give you some context:

- The couple was originally one person (a friend of a friend) who I offered the 2nd room to when they were stuck looking for somewhere decent to live in Dublin. They had to leave the place they were living in as they had broke up with their partner. I was doing them and my friend a favour as I'd a number of people lined up to move in, plus it was hard to find a place at that time so felt for him. (2018)

- After moving in they started to see their partner again and invited them over several times for dinner. This went to them staying over a few nights a week; finally after a month or so I noticed they were over quite a lot, and it was obvious they had moved in without me being consulted (nor the landlord!). I was not comfortable with this I had to confront my original flatmate for an explanation. He said it'd be temporary as she was stuck for accommodation. I allowed this on the condition he update me as to when she would be moving out.

- He failed to do so and after a period of 6 weeks I asked him again what the situation was. He said it would likely be a few months before they would be able to move. I then requested that they split the rent and bills as this was only fair (was paying 50/50 up to this point). I also insisted that he inform the landlord. We agreed an amount - he back pedaled on the day the money was supposed to be transferred to my account (I was traveling with work) and refused to transfer the money as agreed. He only agreed after I got back and had a discussion with him.

- The landlord emailed us asking why 3 people were living in the house. Flatmate hadn't told the landlord as he said he had - all trust now gone.

- I also fail to mention that over March, April, and May they were both working from home full time. I was WFH for 2 weeks in March and then up to June I was back in the office (due to nature of my role I had to go back in). So they used even more electricity than I did over that period! They know this aswell yet never volunteered anything. More reasons why I want to follow up on this.

He basically moved someone in without thinking about me at all and then did not offer to split bills or rent. They basically took over the place. The reason I let this go on was that I genuinely thought they were stuck, but after a couple of months and the fact they didn't offer to split bills properly I realized who I was dealing with.

I'm chasing this as they've done wrong and I've only been decent to them. It'd be easy to chalk it off as experience but that's letting them get away with this. Why let them shaft me so they can shaft others?

FridaysWell · 26-08-2020 04:19PM

893bet wrote: »

Too late.

Let it go and forget it. It’s a small lesson. Could have been worse!

How is it too late? The timing of the bill being closed was ca. 6 weeks after they moved out. They used the electricity!

is_that_so · 26-08-2020 04:21PM

They have done wrong but no amount of principles is going to make them give up what you say is owed. Be annoyed, angry even but it is time to just move on past them.

PhilOssophy · 26-08-2020 04:21PM

TLDR - I don't care about the history.
You asked a question, we are answering it!
Everybody is telling you to let it go and they are right, but - do what you want. (Unfollowing)

Rubberchikken · 26-08-2020 04:23PM

They haven't been decent from the beginning.
Write it off to experience op. It's crap behavior from them but they sound like the type of people with little or no conscious or decency.

El Tarangu · 26-08-2020 04:23PM

OP - given that you are performing all the admin tasks relating to this flatshare, you should, if you aren't currently, charge a small percentage on top when subletting the room (rather than a 50/50 split); to cover that the time and effort that you expend running from pillar to post emailing landlords and whatnot, and to cover little cost anomalies like this.

FridaysWell · 26-08-2020 04:23PM

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

No. Small claims is not an option. It's for claims against a business.

You can claim against an individual - could be construed that we'd an arrangement / verbal agreement in place. Just unsure if SCC would hear the case or not or decide and issue a response / order

noodler · 26-08-2020 04:27PM

I think it's fairly disgraceful the would refuse.i expect my next metre reading to show a big increase in electricity due to WfH and wouldn't a recent flatmate to refuse.

FridaysWell · 26-08-2020 04:27PM

El Tarangu wrote: »

OP - given that performing all the admin tasks relating to this flatshare, you should, if you aren't currently, charge a small percentage on top when subletting the room (rather than a 50/50 split); to cover that the time and effort that you expend running from pillar to post emailing landlords and whatnot, and to cover little cost anomalies like this.

We were joint tenants on a lease as opposed to me subletting them the room.

I've been renting for quite a while and I've never had an issue before, thankfully. In my own place now so don't have to deal with any more crap.

History is important. Its the reason I don't feel like it is right to just let this go.

Samuel T. Cogley · 26-08-2020 04:28PM

FridaysWell wrote: »

You can claim against an individual - could be construed that we'd an arrangement / verbal agreement in place. Just unsure if SCC would hear the case or not or decide and issue a response / order

Pretty sure you can't use the Small Claims Procedure.

a claim for goods or services bought for private use from someone selling them in the course of a business (consumer claims)

a claim for goods or services bought for business use from someone selling them in the course of a business (business claims)

a claim for minor damage to property (but excluding personal injuries)

a claim for the non-return of a rent deposit for certain kinds of rented properties. For example, a holiday home or a room / flat in a premises where the owner also lives

I'm open to correction as always.

On a side note, that's some job they've done tarting up the Courts website.

i_surge · 26-08-2020 04:30PM

FridaysWell wrote: »

The reason I am putting time and energy into this is because what they are doing is wrong (in my eyes). I've been beyond good to both of them, but they insist on just being unreasonable. Let me give you some context:

- The couple was originally one person (a friend of a friend) who I offered the 2nd room to when they were stuck looking for somewhere decent to live in Dublin. They had to leave the place they were living in as they had broke up with their partner. I was doing them and my friend a favour as I'd a number of people lined up to move in, plus it was hard to find a place at that time so felt for him. (2018)

- After moving in they started to see their partner again and invited them over several times for dinner. This went to them staying over a few nights a week; finally after a month or so I noticed they were over quite a lot, and it was obvious they had moved in without me being consulted (nor the landlord!). I was not comfortable with this I had to confront my original flatmate for an explanation. He said it'd be temporary as she was stuck for accommodation. I allowed this on the condition he update me as to when she would be moving out.

- He failed to do so and after a period of 6 weeks I asked him again what the situation was. He said it would likely be a few months before they would be able to move. I then requested that they split the rent and bills as this was only fair (was paying 50/50 up to this point). I also insisted that he inform the landlord. We agreed an amount - he back pedaled on the day the money was supposed to be transferred to my account (I was traveling with work) and refused to transfer the money as agreed. He only agreed after I got back and had a discussion with him.

- The landlord emailed us asking why 3 people were living in the house. Flatmate hadn't told the landlord as he said he had - all trust now gone.

- I also fail to mention that over March, April, and May they were both working from home full time. I was WFH for 2 weeks in March and then up to June I was back in the office (due to nature of my role I had to go back in). So they used even more electricity than I did over that period! They know this aswell yet never volunteered anything. More reasons why I want to follow up on this.

He basically moved someone in without thinking about me at all and then did not offer to split bills or rent. They basically took over the place. The reason I let this go on was that I genuinely thought they were stuck, but after a couple of months and the fact they didn't offer to split bills properly I realized who I was dealing with.

I'm chasing this as they've done wrong and I've only been decent to them. It'd be easy to chalk it off as experience but that's letting them get away with this. Why let them shaft me so they can shaft others?

I had a similar issue so egregious I regularly fantasise about smashing the guys face with a baseball bat, went legal, lawyer turned out to be incompetent forcing me to let it go. Her mistake has made the odds of success much worse than they were. The person will get away with it this time, but being like that will catch up with them eventually.

I actually feel a lot better about it now.

Move on is my advice, not worth your time or mental energy.

FridaysWell · 26-08-2020 04:34PM

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Pretty sure you can't use the Small Claims Procedure.

a claim for goods or services bought for private use from someone selling them in the course of a business (consumer claims)

a claim for goods or services bought for business use from someone selling them in the course of a business (business claims)

a claim for minor damage to property (but excluding personal injuries)

a claim for the non-return of a rent deposit for certain kinds of rented properties. For example, a holiday home or a room / flat in a premises where the owner also lives

I'm open to correction as always.

On a side note, that's some job they've done tarting up the Courts website.

I read that on the site also, but have got conflicting views. Rang the SCC and they said they weren't 100% and I should submit the claim anyway as it may be reviewed and acted on. I just wanted to see if anything similar was brought up before.

It does sound like I can't go to SCC but is that 100% right though?

vandriver · 26-08-2020 04:34PM

Level pay seems bonkers in a flat share.

FridaysWell · 26-08-2020 04:35PM

vandriver wrote: »

Level pay seems bonkers in a flat share.

Lesson learned, but to be fair its not that complicated!

i_surge · 26-08-2020 04:36PM

FridaysWell wrote: »

Lesson learned, but to be fair its not that complicated!

You are in the right, some people are just *****.

Samuel T. Cogley · 26-08-2020 04:37PM

FridaysWell wrote: »

I read that on the site also, but have got conflicting views. Rang the SCC and they said they weren't 100% and I should submit the claim anyway as it may be reviewed and acted on. I just wanted to see if anything similar was brought up before.

It does sound like I can't go to SCC but is that 100% right though?

Even if it's entertained, and you win, you've still got enforcement to worry about which I'd venture is darn near impossible against a private party like this and probably more expensive than the debt.

cruizer101 · 26-08-2020 04:39PM

The problem is you don't actually know how much they owe as you never took a meter reading when they left, without that you are just guessing.
If they were good people they would throw a bit of money your way but if they don't there is not a whole lot you can do.

BnB · 26-08-2020 04:40PM

Hi OP

[Blah blah blah.....Deleted this paragraph as it was covered already while I was typing out my speel....]

Unfortunately, I think there is very little you can do to make these people pay.

I have to agree with the majority of posts here. There is no doubt these people owe you the money. You know that and they know that. They are just being complete and utter dicks by not paying it. They know there is nothing that you can do to make them so they are not going to do it. But from reading your post above, it seems they have always been a-holes. You are down €90 but you are also down two A-holes in your life. I'd say go and buy yourself a pint/cake/whateveryouareintoyourself to celebrate that fact and move on. It really is the most healthy thing to do for yourself.

Best of luck

El Tarangu · 26-08-2020 04:45PM

FridaysWell wrote: »

We were joint tenants on a lease as opposed to me subletting them the room.

I've been renting for quite a while and I've never had an issue before, thankfully. In my own place now so don't have to deal with any more crap.

History is important. Its the reason I don't feel like it is right to just let this go.

If you're not living there any more, even more reason to chalk it up to being one of those things, and forget about it. Even if you do manage to bring them to the Small Claims Court, do you really want to lose a day's pay + the mental anguish for €90?

El Tarangu · 26-08-2020 04:48PM

BnB wrote: »

I have to agree with the majority of posts here. There is no doubt these people owe you the money. You know that and they know that. They are just being complete and utter dicks by not paying it. They know there is nothing that you can do to make them so they are not going to do it. But from reading your post above, it seems they have always been a-holes. You are down €90 but you are also down two A-holes in your life. I'd say go and buy yourself a pint/cake/whateveryouareintoyourself to celebrate that fact and move on. It really is the most healthy thing to do for yourself.

Best of luck

Indeed - like that scene from 'Bronx Tale' - two a-holes for €90; that's cheap at half the price.

FridaysWell · 26-08-2020 04:50PM

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Even if it's entertained, and you win, you've still got enforcement to worry about which I'd venture is darn near impossible against a private party like this and probably more expensive than the debt.

Good point. But a win is a win I suppose. They need to be held accountable. They both work in FS and would take a judgement like this seriously (I think) as it relates to money (however small).

cruizer101 wrote: »

The problem is you don't actually know how much they owe as you never took a meter reading when they left, without that you are just guessing.
If they were good people they would throw a bit of money your way but if they don't there is not a whole lot you can do.

Its all laid out in the bills though - it illustrates the amount used per month when they were living there and the amount that built up each month.

BnB wrote: »

Hi OP

[Blah blah blah.....Deleted this paragraph as it was covered already while I was typing out my speel....]

Unfortunately, I think there is very little you can do to make these people pay.

I have to agree with the majority of posts here. There is no doubt these people owe you the money. You know that and they know that. They are just being complete and utter dicks by not paying it. They know there is nothing that you can do to make them so they are not going to do it. But from reading your post above, it seems they have always been a-holes. You are down €90 but you are also down two A-holes in your life. I'd say go and buy yourself a pint/cake/whateveryouareintoyourself to celebrate that fact and move on. It really is the most healthy thing to do for yourself.

Best of luck

It sounds like there isn't a lot I could do without incurring cost / effort on my side. I appreciate all of the responses and the sentiment for sure.

If the SCC isn't the venue for this, what would be the hypothetical route? I know the cost would be prohibitive but what would the route be to get this sorted? District Court?

FridaysWell · 26-08-2020 04:52PM

El Tarangu wrote: »

If you're not living there any more, even more reason to chalk it up to being one of those things, and forget about it. Even if you do manage to bring them to the Small Claims Court, do you really want to lose a day's pay + the mental anguish for €90?

I'm still out of pocket, to two people who I treated more than fairly. The mental anguish for me is letting them away with this given all that occurred over the past while. I just feel really strongly about it, maybe it'll wear off but at the end of the day I'm down money for the wrong reasons.

i_surge · 26-08-2020 04:55PM

FridaysWell wrote: »

I'm still out of pocket, to two people who I treated more than fairly. The mental anguish for me is letting them away with this given all that occurred over the past while. I just feel really strongly about it, maybe it'll wear off but at the end of the day I'm down money for the wrong reasons.

I was in the same boat. A seething rage and seeking justice at all costs but it only detracts from your own life.

Hard to move on but it is the best choice.

Getting old flatmate to pay their part of the electricity bill

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