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2020 the battle of the septuagenarians - Trump vs Biden, Part 2

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Comments

  • #3662
    Irishman80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 236 ✭✭Irishman80


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    So you're saying it doesn't really matter who's in the White House on this issue. So why is Trump and the RNC banging on about how terrible the country will be under Biden and that chaos and violence will rule. I mean if it's nothing to do with the President as you state.

    Not when it comes to City and State police. The President of the US has no control over police departments like the NYPD.

    He can send in Federal troops under the Insurrection Act but that's a losing policy. He owns the carnage that occurs then.

    Right now, the Democrats own the riots. Why would someone take that responsibility from them?


  • #3663
    Irishman80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 236 ✭✭Irishman80


    Cody montana wrote: »
    So what difference will it make if Biden is elected?

    Why would someone elect a Democrat to federal office when the Democrat run cities and States are refusing to protect their businesses?

    This isn't rocket science.


  • #3664
    Cody montana
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,591 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    randd1 wrote: »
    It's all Obama's fault, because Clinton is a child trafficker who likes pizza and Biden is a drooling mess, and the democrats have decided that America is to become a province of China who are going to take away Jesus and Guns and hamburgers, and let all the ISIS commies and Mexican rapists drug lords come and give everyone swine flu because Hollywood and the media are trying to convince people The Wall doesn't exist even though The Donald and Jared Kusher and Ivanka built it with their bare hands with the help of every black person in America because no-one did more for blacks that Trump, and the Deep State is behind it all to make Trump look bad by poisoning 180,000 people with chemicals from planes flown by Obama and Oprah with the media saying it's the coronavirus even though it's actually a Chinese flu used by the democrats and BLM to take over America, and make Trump look bad because he wins so bigly, and is a peace president that has America's economy roaring and their debt cut to nothing, so it's just jealous democrats trying destroy America, and Trump takes no responsibility for it because his presidency is being attacked because no-one understand how awesome a businessman he is and how he's saving America from the media, except Fox & Friends.

    Or something like that. The Q-Anon conspiracy (or Trump Administration Policy to give it it's official title) has gotten so convoluted it's hard to keep up.

    Strangely I don’t remember mass protests under Obama’s watch.


  • #3665
    namloc1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,462 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Irishman80 wrote: »
    Not when it comes to City and State police. The President of the US has no control over police departments like the NYPD.

    He can send in Federal troops under the Insurrection Act but that's a losing policy. He owns the carnage that occurs then.

    Right now, the Democrats own the riots. Why would someone take that responsibility from them?

    You said it is absolutely nothing to do with the the President. So why are Trump and his cronies banging on that under Biden chaos will rule?


  • #3666
    Cody montana
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,591 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    Irishman80 wrote: »
    Why would someone elect a Democrat to federal office when the Democrat run cities and States are refusing to protect their businesses?

    This isn't rocket science.

    Erm but this is happened under trumps presidency.
    We got there in the end.


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  • #3667
    dwayneshintzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭dwayneshintzy


    Irishman80 wrote: »
    Why would someone elect a Democrat to federal office when the Democrat run cities and States are refusing to protect their businesses?

    This isn't rocket science.
    Why do you think it is that Democrats "run" most major cities in the States, then?


  • #3668
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,783 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Irishman80 wrote: »
    Why would someone elect a Democrat to federal office when the Democrat run cities and States are refusing to protect their businesses?

    This isn't rocket science.

    The same people that elected the Democrats to run their Cities and States and continue to do so?????


  • #3669
    namloc1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,462 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Irishman80 wrote: »
    Why would someone elect a Democrat to federal office when the Democrat run cities and States are refusing to protect their businesses?

    This isn't rocket science.

    Just to point out here that the city of Kenosha (where the latest violence erupted after police shot an unarmed black man 7 times in the back) is in Wisconsin where the State Assembly is held by a Republican majority.


  • #3670
    Irishman80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 236 ✭✭Irishman80


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    You said it is absolutely nothing to do with the the President. So why are Trump and his cronies banging on that under Biden chaos will rule?

    You might have missed it. It's the Democrat supported BLM thay are burning down businesses in Democrat run cities in Democrat run States with the Democrat leaders refusing Trump's offer of National Guard troops.

    Trump simply has to sit back and hope for more riots - and the more in Swing States the better.

    That might be a cold view of the situation but that's what's happening.


  • #3671
    Irishman80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 236 ✭✭Irishman80


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    Just to point out here that the city of Kenosha (where the latest violence erupted after police shot an unarmed black man 7 times in the back) is in Wisconsin where the State Assembly is held by a Republican majority.

    The Mayor and Governor control the police and NG in Kenosha and Wisconsin.


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  • #3672
    duploelabs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,031 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    Irishman80 wrote: »
    You might have missed it. It's the Democrat supported BLM thay are burning down businesses in Democrat run cities in Democrat run States with the Democrat leaders refusing Trump's offer of National Guard troops.

    Trump simply has to sit back and hope for more riots - and the more in Swing States the better.

    That might be a cold view of the situation but that's what's happening.

    So there's zero disturbance in Republican states?


  • #3673
    Danzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,067 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    duploelabs wrote: »
    So there's zero disturbance in Republican states?

    That's not what he said.

    It's hard to disagree that Democratic Mayors are allowing this for political gain.

    At savage cost to African Americans.


  • #3674
    Irishman80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 236 ✭✭Irishman80


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    The same people that elected the Democrats to run their Cities and States and continue to do so?????

    Let's see if the people of Kenosha, a swing district in a swing State, continue to vote for Democrats in November


  • #3675
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,783 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Irishman80 wrote: »
    You might have missed it. It's the Democrat supported BLM thay are burning down businesses in Democrat run cities in Democrat run States with the Democrat leaders refusing Trump's offer of National Guard troops.

    Trump simply has to sit back and hope for more riots - and the more in Swing States the better.

    That might be a cold view of the situation but that's what's happening.

    So - Your argument is this.

    The President has no control over what happens in Cities and States , but because people are unhappy about what is happening in their Cities and States , they are going to elect Trump over Biden , because Presidents have no influence over what happens in Cities and States?

    So , If Trump gets elected but those Democrat Governors and Mayors are still there , how will things change exactly?

    Help me make the connection between a presidential election and occurrences at State and City level that you say the President has absolutely no influence or responsibility over?


  • #3676
    dwayneshintzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭dwayneshintzy


    Danzy wrote: »
    That's not what he said.

    It's hard to disagree that Democratic Mayors are allowing this for political gain.

    At savage cost to African Americans.
    Eh, he's not arguing it's for political gain. He's arguing that Republicans will gain from it. It's all a bit confusing, granted.



    What are they "allowing", anyway? And why don't you trust African Americans to know themselves who they should support? Since by and large, most African American communities support Democratic candidates by significant majorities.


  • #3677
    namloc1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,462 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Irishman80 wrote: »
    Let's see if the people of Kenosha, a swing district in a swing State, continue to vote for Democrats in November

    Indeed let's see (quoted so we can come back to this). Once again just to remind you the Republicans control the state assembly in Wisconsin.


  • #3678
    Irishman80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 236 ✭✭Irishman80


    duploelabs wrote: »
    So there's zero disturbance in Republican states?

    Not at the level of Minnesota, Oregan, Wisconsin, California, New York or Washington.

    Of the above, Minnesota and Wisconsin are the major issues for the Dems.


  • #3679
    duploelabs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,031 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    Danzy wrote: »
    That's not what he said.

    It's hard to disagree that Democratic Mayors are allowing this for political gain.

    At savage cost to African Americans.

    How is protesting the maiming of an unarmed black man by the police bad for African Americans?


  • #3680
    Irishman80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 236 ✭✭Irishman80


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    Indeed let's see (quoted so we can come back to this). Once again just to remind you the Republicans control the state assembly in Wisconsin.

    It's the Mayors and Governors who control the police.

    If Trump sent the 82th Airbourne into the city to stop the riots, would you point out that the Democrats control the House and must assume responsibility for Trump's decision?


  • #3681
    Danzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,067 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    Just to point out here that the city of Kenosha (where the latest violence erupted after police shot an unarmed black man 7 times in the back) is in Wisconsin where the State Assembly is held by a Republican majority.

    He had a knife ffs, he dived into the car, he had been fighting police officers.

    His partner, his kids, women in the locality are safer for his apprehension, pity he escalated it to the point where he had to be shot.


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  • #3682
    Irishman80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 236 ✭✭Irishman80


    duploelabs wrote: »
    How is protesting the maiming of an unarmed black man by the police bad for African Americans?

    You shouldn't confuse protesting with rioting, looting, and burning businesses.


  • #3683
    dwayneshintzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭dwayneshintzy


    Irishman80 wrote: »
    You shouldn't confuse protesting with rioting, looting, and burning businesses.
    I'm not sure he did. Are you saying that the majority of protestors are engaging in rioting, looting and burning businesses?


  • #3684
    duploelabs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,031 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    Irishman80 wrote: »
    You shouldn't confuse protesting with rioting, looting, and burning businesses.

    Neither should you but unfortunately it seems every protester is a rioter in the eyes of the Republicans


  • #3685
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Irishman80 wrote: »
    It's the Mayors and Governors who control the police.

    If Trump sent the 82th Airbourne into the city to stop the riots, would you point out that the Democrats control the House and must assume responsibility for Trump's decision?

    Out of interest, do you think there's a problem when the Police shot a man in the back and paralysed him?


  • #3686
    Penn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,715 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    The BLM protests aren't limited to specific cities due to Dem mayors or governors, it's about systemic mistreatment of a race throughout the country and a lack of support from the people who can enact real changes throughout the country to help fix these issues.

    The President pressures governors and mayors by threatening to withhold federal funds when they don't support him or enact his policies. He doesn't pressure them to try help the black communities in this fight. BLM have a constitutional right to peaceful protest. Trump sends in unidentified federal agent groups to arrest them.

    Trump could have easily shown some semblence of support and a promise to start trying to see what changes could be implemented to reduce excessive police brutality or targeting of specific groups. So what did Trump say?
    Great job last night at the White House by the U.S. @SecretService. They were not only totally professional, but very cool. I was inside, watched every move, and couldn’t have felt more safe. They let the “protesters” scream & rant as much as they wanted, but whenever someone....

    ....got too frisky or out of line, they would quickly come down on them, hard - didn’t know what hit them. The front line was replaced with fresh agents, like magic. Big crowd, professionally organized, but nobody came close to breaching the fence. If they had they would....

    ....have been greeted with the most vicious dogs, and most ominous weapons, I have ever seen. That’s when people would have been really badly hurt, at least. Many Secret Service agents just waiting for action. “We put the young ones on the front line, sir, they love it, and....

    ....good practice.” As you saw last night, they were very cool & very professional. Never let it get out of hand. Thank you! On the bad side, the D.C. Mayor, @MurielBowser, who is always looking for money & help, wouldn’t let the D.C. Police get involved. “Not their job.” Nice!

    He also referred to the painting of 'Black Lives Matter' outside Trump Tower in NYC as "a symbol of hate". To say Trump bears no responsibilities for the size and scale of protests is nonsense.


  • #3687
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,783 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Danzy wrote: »
    He had a knife ffs, he dived into the car, he had been fighting police officers.

    His partner, his kids, women in the locality are safer for his apprehension, pity he escalated it to the point where he had to be shot.

    And therein lies the fundamental problem with the Police in the US - "He had to be shot"

    The key problem isn't racism (although it plays a major,major role) it is the militarisation of Police departments and the speed and willingness of Officers to resort to lethal force.

    Place that exact same scenario in Canada or in any country in Europe (and a whole host of other modern countries) - Armed officers or not.

    Would he have been shot 7 times in the back?

    Or would the half a dozen or more officers present have subdued him using non-lethal methods??

    That is the core problem ,the fact that people of colour are disproportionately on the receiving end of this problem is where the racism element kicks in , but if Police policy wasn't "draw your weapon and shoot at the slightest provocation" it would be an entirely different conversation.


  • #3688
    Irishman80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 236 ✭✭Irishman80


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Out of interest, do you think there's a problem when the Police shot a man in the back and paralysed him?

    Yes, shooting someone in the back 7 times is clearly not reasonable force.

    But that doesn't mean I'm going to blanket blame all the police in the US. It's a country with 400 million legal guns, 10's of millions of illegal guns, gun sales of over 20 million already in 2020. The police have a thankless job.

    I can't understand why anyone would want to be a police officer over there.


  • #3689
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Penn wrote: »
    The BLM protests aren't limited to specific cities due to Dem mayors or governors, it's about systemic mistreatment of a race throughout the country and a lack of support from the people who can enact real changes throughout the country to help fix these issues.

    The President pressures governors and mayors by threatening to withhold federal funds when they don't support him or enact his policies. He doesn't pressure them to try help the black communities in this fight. BLM have a constitutional right to peaceful protest. Trump sends in unidentified federal agent groups to arrest them.

    Trump could have easily shown some semblence of support and a promise to start trying to see what changes could be implemented to reduce excessive police brutality or targeting of specific groups. So what did Trump say?



    He also referred to the painting of 'Black Lives Matter' outside Trump Tower in NYC as "a symbol of hate". To say Trump bears no responsibilities for the size and scale of protests is nonsense.

    slow down on that Kool aid there, drinking it way too fast.


  • #3690
    dwayneshintzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭dwayneshintzy


    Irishman80 wrote: »
    Yes, shooting someone in the back 7 times is clearly not reasonable force.

    But that doesn't mean I'm going to blanket blame all the police in the US. It's a country with 400 million legal guns, 10's of millions of illegal guns, gun sales of over 20 million already in 2020. The police have a thankless job.

    I can't understand why anyone would want to be a police officer over there.
    Relatively high salary, overtime pay, great pension and job security. Do you know any American policemen?


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  • #3691
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,895 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    slow down on that Kool aid there, drinking it way too fast.

    That attitude right there is why BLM is necessary.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



This discussion has been closed.
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