Is it just me or have SF vanished?

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Please quote where I said I didn’t believe J. Mc Conville was an informer.

When it comes to cherry picking Francie, you are on the top rung of the ladder.

I was speaking generally.

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You are critical of others hypocrisy without identifying your own.
There is no invented ceiling in democracy. When SF win enough seats to form a government with willing partners they will be in power. The way things are going this may well be sooner than we expect. When a Sinn Fein Taoiseach is elected they have my support in their role as Taoiseach, like those from any other party. There won’t be any of this any democratic “not my Taoiseach” nonsense from this voter.

Truthvader has an oft expressed ceiling. I was answering him/her.
Delighted to know you will be a democrat.

Truthvader wrote: »

Everyone has always been "invited into the democratic process" . If you enter that process as a party steeped in murder and thuggery which you continue to celebrate and glorify while the party is controlled in the background by the same criminal thugs it is not "hypocricy" for the other parties who do not share the same criminal agenda to decide it is not a good idea to share power with you.

Sadly for your exclusionary politics, nobody, neither the British, Irish nor those who signed up to the multiparty agreement had to admit that they were wrong or did the wrong thing. Even though many would have the same opinion of the British and Loyalists as you have of SF.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Sadly for your exclusionary politics, nobody, neither the British, Irish nor those who signed up to the multiparty agreement had to admit that they were wrong or did the wrong thing. Even though many would have the same opinion of the British and Loyalists as you have of SF.

And finally there you have it folks. Underneath all the spoof and smokescreen Francie doesn't really think all the murder and thuggery was wrong or that Gerry did the wrong thing. Sinn Fein IRA exposed again but whining about being "excluded" because they simply cannot ever understand that murder and savagery are in fact quite wrong and unacceptable - even if "authorised"

Truthvader wrote: »

And finally there you have it folks. Underneath all the spoof and smokescreen Francie doesn't really think all the murder and thuggery was wrong or that Gerry did the wrong thing. Sinn Fein IRA exposed again but whining about being "excluded" because they simply cannot ever understand that murder and savagery are in fact quite wrong and unacceptable - even if "authorised"

Typical Truth answer.

Nobody had to admit they did the wrong thing or acted wrong...the British, Irish, and all who signed the multiparty agreement.

Despite some of them doing the same things as the IRA, in Truth's wee moral world only the IRA have to pay the price.

Hypocritical, wrong headed and to not put a tooth in it, stupid.

After every war/conflict these simple things happen and once agreements are signed or treaties agreed, democracy returns and proceeds...our own states beginnings being a case in point. Europe after every conflagation/war and conflict.

But the RA...the RA ...the RA!!!

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Not entirely true. In many wars one side has to admit they were entirely in the wrong and take responsibility for the conflict in its entirety. One can argue forever who was the most wrong but one can’t argue that in conflict no one has to admit they did wrong, that “after every war/conflict these simple things happen”.

There is of course an argument that wars between people are very different to wars between nations but even that distinction is contested in the context of Northern Ireland.

Is there a point in there somewhere?

SafeSurfer wrote: »

That your sweeping generalisations are again untrue.

So do tell us, which side was required to admit that what they done/didn't do was wrong when they signed up to the GFA? Here is the list of those who signed up:


Irish Government,
United Kingdom Government

APNI,
NIWC,
NI Labour Coalition,
Sinn Fein,
UUP,
SDLP,
UDP,
PUP.

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You are missing the point. The point being that not all conflicts end in “ah sure were all as bad as each other” type resolutions.

I didn't say they did.

They end with agreements or treaty's.

Take a look at the Paris Treaty for instance. That included what the defeated countries had to do to fulfill their part of the agreement to the Treaty. Including reparations, adjustment of territories and the demand to hand over war criminals.

There is no similar demands in the GFA off any of the signatories. Here is the multi party agreement.

https://www.peaceagreements.org/viewmasterdocument/556

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I didn't say they did.

They end with agreements or treaty's.

Take a look at the Paris Treaty for instance. That included what the defeated countries had to do to fulfill their part of the agreement to the Treaty. Including reparations, adjustment of territories and the demand to hand over war criminals.

There is no similar demands in the GFA off any of the signatories. Here is the multi party agreement.

https://www.peaceagreements.org/viewmasterdocument/556

This is what you said

“After every war/conflict these simple things happen and once agreements are signed or treaties agreed, democracy returns and proceeds...our own states beginnings being a case in point. Europe after every conflagation/war and conflict”

The Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, etc might disagree with you.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Typical Truth answer.

Nobody had to admit they did the wrong thing or acted wrong...the British, Irish, and all who signed the multiparty agreement.

Despite some of them doing the same things as the IRA, in Truth's wee moral world only the IRA have to pay the price.

Hypocritical, wrong headed and to not put a tooth in it, stupid.

After every war/conflict these simple things happen and once agreements are signed or treaties agreed, democracy returns and proceeds...our own states beginnings being a case in point. Europe after every conflagation/war and conflict.

But the RA...the RA ...the RA!!!

Actually the IRA never paid the price. All the scum were released from prison and got "jobs" as "community activists" while the ones that could spell became more active in Sinn Fein. Plus whats this "democracy returns" drivel? It never went away. Your real problem seems to be that even though the low tide of thickos and criminals in Sinn Fein managed 25% of the vote you think that they are accordingly entitled to government. They're just not and the other parties not riddled with criminal low lifes want nothing to do with them. Mainly because, as most recently revealed by you, leaving aside their history of depravity, their members see nothing wrong with the murder and mutilation of other people, continue to celebrate it - and indeed to indulge in the odd bit of criminality if and when it suits.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The purpose of a treaty or agreement is to allow democracy to return in the aftermath of a war/conflict. A Treaty will have the terms of that agreement.

There is no requirement in the GFA or The Multi party agreement for any side to admit they were wrong to do what they did. Truthvader's point was that it is wrong to vote for SF until they do this.

Do you agree or disagree?

How can agree without something I know not to be true?

The purpose of a treaty is not necessarily “to allow democracy to return in the aftermath of a war conflict”.

You would have to have a very parochial view of war/conflict to believe that to be the case.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Fair enough, not going to argue that any further tbh.
Can you answer the question specifically asked about the GFA now?

Yes you are absolutely right on that point.

Truthvader wrote: »

What "right" is contained in the GFA that was not available before. ( not including the "right" of murderers, thieves and thugs to early release.)

The electoral process (one vote per person) is the same as that obtaining before the GFA.

Maybe read it? It mentions quite a few in the first few pages.