Covid 19 Part XXI-27,908 in ROI (1,777 deaths) 6,647 in NI (559 deaths)(22/08)Read OP

Oranage2 · 19-08-2020 06:51AM

FG looking like heroes now. This was so poorly communicated last night which was restrict your movement and restrict the amount of people you come in contact with.

How can people believe more than 15 people watching a match is a problem when all we hear is about meat factories having 100s of cases.

I can see their point that if a meat factory worker goes to a match he could potentially infect 100s, this way he'll only be able to infect 14 possible others.

But that doesn't address the main problem which are the factories and people don't believe just testing workers in all the 100s of factories is good enough or severe enough after they basically shut down 3 counties.

I really don't know what think about this, biggest question is will people comply? The majority have behaved well but probably stretched some guidelines a little but will this announcement put people back in check?

caveat emptor · 19-08-2020 06:54AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Tánaiste Leo Varadkar criticised his Fianna Fáil colleagues for rushing through the new measures without debating it at a Cabinet committee meeting with public health experts.

Several sources at the meeting said the Fine Gael leader said: "If we keep doing business like this, we won't be doing business for very long,"

Mr Varadkar was described as "furious" by one Cabinet source who said the party was "growing tired with the bad news constantly being announced under Fianna Fáil".

Frustrations have also been raised among Fine Gael ministers over the severity of the advice given by Nphet on the virus.

"You'd need a certain set of skills to deal with Nphet because anyone who can make logic of their recommendations needs to be a genius," a minister said.

"We are implementing the most draconian restrictions in Europe," another minister said.

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/no-end-in-sight-as-nation-slides-towards-lockdown-39461331.html

Leo is such a sleeveen to be putting politics ahead of the health of the nation.

The are going to pull the rug from under MM when the cases are high enough or when schools have to close.

Undermining public health experts to boot.

I'll never vote for them again. Disgraceful carryon. They can have their fight to the death after this ****e is done.

Yesterday.....

caveat emptor wrote: »

They are clearly dividing people to rule them.
......

MM is a muppet and is playing into a trap laid by Leo. The fact he is playing politics at a time like this is disgusting. MM has picked the hill he is going to die in on in the shape of schools reopening. After all he is a teacher and cares about their development. His position however is untenable. You can’t simultaneously try to please vested interests and get schools open.

They’ll open, then they’ll close and there will be an election.
At which point Leo and Simon who threw a jerry wrench in the decision making process will ride in on their white horses and save us from calamity by standing up to big business and implementing zero covid.

Leo is playing chess , MM is playing checkers.
If anything like above transpires I’ll never vote for a single FG politician in my life again. MM doesn’t have a hope.

The_Brood · 19-08-2020 07:00AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Tánaiste Leo Varadkar criticised his Fianna Fáil colleagues for rushing through the new measures without debating it at a Cabinet committee meeting with public health experts.

Several sources at the meeting said the Fine Gael leader said: "If we keep doing business like this, we won't be doing business for very long,"

Mr Varadkar was described as "furious" by one Cabinet source who said the party was "growing tired with the bad news constantly being announced under Fianna Fáil".

Frustrations have also been raised among Fine Gael ministers over the severity of the advice given by Nphet on the virus.

"You'd need a certain set of skills to deal with Nphet because anyone who can make logic of their recommendations needs to be a genius," a minister said.

"We are implementing the most draconian restrictions in Europe," another minister said.

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/no-end-in-sight-as-nation-slides-towards-lockdown-39461331.html

When Leo is the voice of reason you know the world has officially flipped upside down.

A political system that requires coalitions to function is a failed one leading to the chaos we have now. There needs to be several rounds of voting until people agree on a majority, however long that takes.

leavingirl · 19-08-2020 08:05AM

No longer a conspiracy theory. Hitler would be proud!

https://www.thejournal.ie/australia-covid-vaccine-5179559-Aug2020/?utm_source=twitter_short

yer man! · 19-08-2020 08:10AM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Deaths lag cases by a month. Age is a huge factor but it takes 3 weeks median time for case to death. Add into the mix our long period for registering deaths
and it'll take much longer for them to filter through.
The same debate was had in Florida.
It started with young but eventually moved to old.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.23.20160895v3

We also have a potential mutation on the cards that is possibly causing a surge but lower death rates worldwide

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-mutation/infectious-covid-19-mutation-may-be-a-good-thing-says-disease-expert-idUSKCN25E08Y

iamwhoiam · 19-08-2020 08:11AM

leavingirl wrote: »

No longer a conspiracy theory. Hitler would be proud!

https://www.thejournal.ie/australia-covid-vaccine-5179559-Aug2020/?utm_source=twitter_short

Maybe they should have given them and option so .Either get a vaccine or stay in your own home and no visitors . Use No school , no creche , no restaraunts and dont go to work or visit anyone

Hurrache · 19-08-2020 08:16AM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Glynn is the face of NPHET

That meeting shouldnt take more than 15 mins if the data that the decision making is based on is accurate

That meeting shouldn't take place, end of.

caveat emptor · 19-08-2020 08:18AM

Most kids don't get sick but cases are rising and hospitalisations are rising in US.
Shouldn't be ignored and safety needs to be paramount with schools situation.

https://twitter.com/cgtnamerica/status/1295839136390057984?s=20

RollieFingers · 19-08-2020 08:21AM

So what time does the civil unrest kick off at?

lee_baby_simms · 19-08-2020 08:22AM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Deaths lag cases by a month. Age is a huge factor but it takes 3 weeks median time for case to death. Add into the mix our long period for registering deaths
and it'll take much longer for them to filter through.
The same debate was had in Florida.
It started with young but eventually moved to old.

The issue I would have with this kind of transposition is that its based on the assumption that the first wave of the virus in Florida with a different climate and age demographic will replicated as a second wave in Ireland. Different climate and different at risk population due to the virus already impacting months previously.

While I believe that we need to prepare for the possibility of a some kind of second wave if we look at combined cases/deaths across all of Europe its clear that the virus is not behaving the same way it did at the start of the year.

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stephenjmcd · 19-08-2020 08:22AM

Oranage2 wrote: »

FG looking like heroes now. This was so poorly communicated last night which was restrict your movement and restrict the amount of people you come in contact with.

How can people believe more than 15 people watching a match is a problem when all we hear is about meat factories having 100s of cases.

I can see their point that if a meat factory worker goes to a match he could potentially infect 100s, this way he'll only be able to infect 14 possible others.

But that doesn't address the main problem which are the factories and people don't believe just testing workers in all the 100s of factories is good enough or severe enough after they basically shut down 3 counties.

I really don't know what think about this, biggest question is will people comply? The majority have behaved well but probably stretched some guidelines a little but will this announcement put people back in check?

You know what I've rarely agreed with some of your points made on here but that post is spot on.

The communication was absolutely awful, your right the main problem wasn't addressed.

The likes of the matches I think is to be seen to be doing something. I cant go to a match and be well spaced out in an outdoor setting but can go to an indoor setting such as a wedding and be with 50 people.

Compliance who knows ? Even in my own family people who've gone along wtih whatever restrictions were put our way were questioning yesterdays announcement

Hurrache · 19-08-2020 08:25AM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Unfortunately it seems we're prioritising schools ahead of all else at the moment.

What kind of maniacal country prioritises kids.

caveat emptor · 19-08-2020 08:27AM

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

The issue I would have with this kind of transposition is that its based on the assumption that the first wave of the virus in Florida with a different climate and age demographic will replicated as a second wave in Ireland. Different climate and different at risk population due to the virus already impacting months previously.

While I believe that we need to prepare for the possibility of a some kind of second wave if we look at combined cases/deaths across all of Europe its clear that the virus is not behaving the same way it did at the start of the year.

Yeah that be because a younger demographic is contracting it. But as with everywhere in the world we don't live in isolation so it takes some time to spread to older generations.

Hopefully the continued measures will be enough to stop it here. I wouldn't be so sure about Spain though. Crazy numbers there now.

Here's the guy who did the analysis. Very good on lots of things imo. Explanation too.

https://twitter.com/zorinaq/status/1295817781498089472?s=20

KaneToad · 19-08-2020 08:30AM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Unfortunately it seems we're prioritising schools ahead of all else at the moment.

Do you not think schools deserve prioritisation?

gifted · 19-08-2020 08:34AM

KaneToad wrote: »

Do you not think schools deserve prioritisation?

The children and teachers safety deserve priority

prunudo · 19-08-2020 08:35AM

I just don't get the logic that its okay to have 25-30 pupils in a stuffy classroom for 5-6 hrs a day or 50 people at a wedding but 20 people watching a match for a couple of hours outside isn't.

MickeyLeari · 19-08-2020 08:37AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Tánaiste Leo Varadkar criticised his Fianna Fáil colleagues for rushing through the new measures without debating it at a Cabinet committee meeting with public health experts.

Several sources at the meeting said the Fine Gael leader said: "If we keep doing business like this, we won't be doing business for very long,"

Mr Varadkar was described as "furious" by one Cabinet source who said the party was "growing tired with the bad news constantly being announced under Fianna Fáil".

Frustrations have also been raised among Fine Gael ministers over the severity of the advice given by Nphet on the virus.

"You'd need a certain set of skills to deal with Nphet because anyone who can make logic of their recommendations needs to be a genius," a minister said.

"We are implementing the most draconian restrictions in Europe," another minister said.

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/no-end-in-sight-as-nation-slides-towards-lockdown-39461331.html

The Tanaiste was right. Yesterday was a mess - did the Minister for Health insist on a full Cabinet meeting? Why did the Taoiseach agree? Did he consult with his coalition partners? We have a new Minister for Health and at the same time we have an acting Secretary General in Health. Transition is required in normal times but this is nuts.

I have raised issues before about Governance and this confirms that the bypassing of normal Cabinet rules would lead to a crisis. Seemingly there was a good relationship between Holohan and Varadkar previously which ensured things worked to the extent that there was a largely united front but continuation of this will lead to a new election

mean gene · 19-08-2020 08:37AM

Mickey Martin lives up the road from me there I have to say he's the most uninspiring leader we've ever had in my memory and he hasn't done 1 good thing since being appointed

Oranage2 · 19-08-2020 08:39AM

KaneToad wrote: »

Do you not think schools deserve prioritisation?

I think they do need to go back. But not all the classes. They could let class 1,2 and 6 go back in primary and grades 3,5 and 6 for secondary. That means less school users using public transport and more space in schools. If after a month there aren't any cases we could let the rest of the primary and secondary students go back, then mid to late October let university students go back.

We're putting all in eggs in the school basket but I've no idea why, are the government trying to make omelets or quiches?

The plan is so short term, open schools, hope for the best and if it's alright then reduce the restrictions. They've no idea how to let schools go back safely and no idea what to do if the school plan fails.

Hurrache · 19-08-2020 08:39AM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

I thought the priority at the moment was keeping the disease under control? Opening schools is going to set us right back in that regard.

I understand that education is important, but it's not right to keep imposing restrictions on other parts of society in order to open schools, which seems to be the case at the moment.

Reality is that kids will have been mixing it up all summer anyway, either through out playing together, summer camps or sports training. I imagine the lead up to schools opening is to limit the number of community cases so that there'll be less to spread once they come together in school again.

plodder · 19-08-2020 08:39AM

Hurrache wrote: »

What kind of maniacal country prioritises kids.

Indeed, who would prioritise children's education over house parties ... though there's been a few voices on the radio this morning questioning restrictions on house parties.

The Dail needs to be recalled to pass legislation to enforce restrictions on gatherings in houses. That must be obvious now. Otherwise, it looks like the people are doing repeatedly what is asked of them, but politicians and the state are failing repeatedly.

is_that_so · 19-08-2020 08:44AM

plodder wrote: »

Indeed, who would prioritise children's education over house parties ... though there's been a few voices on the radio this morning questioning restrictions on house parties.

The Dail needs to be recalled to pass legislation to enforce restrictions on gatherings in houses. That must be obvious now. Otherwise, it looks like the people are doing repeatedly what is asked of them, but politicians and the state are failing repeatedly.

They've done their work via the emergency legislation back in March. It'll be done by an SI from the minister pending review by AG.

KaneToad · 19-08-2020 08:45AM

prunudo wrote: »

I just don't get the logic that its okay to have 25-30 pupils in a stuffy classroom for 5-6 hrs a day or 50 people at a wedding but 20 people watching a match for a couple of hours outside isn't.

Restrictions on match spectators is purely because spectators aren't trusted to do it properly. It presents opportunity for congregation before /after the event for diverse groups. Its an easy move to ban it as the financial implications are negligible. It's the low hanging fruit.

is_that_so · 19-08-2020 08:47AM

Hurrache wrote: »

Reality is that kids will have been mixing it up all summer anyway, either through out playing together, summer camps or sports training. I imagine the lead up to schools opening is to limit the number of community cases so that there'll be less to spread once they come together in school again.

Pretty much where we were with pubs a few weeks ago. Nobody will remember these measures but there'll be a long memory of schools not reopening. I fully expect some cases out of schools but if they've worked it out properly in individual schools that should be minimised.

Doctors room ghost · 19-08-2020 08:48AM

Leo will be wheeled out next to calm the nation with a Harry Potter poem or a song off the lord of the rings.
What a time to be alive

prunudo · 19-08-2020 08:48AM

KaneToad wrote: »

Restrictions on match spectators is purely because spectators aren't trusted to do it properly. It presents opportunity for congregation before /after the event for diverse groups. Its an easy move to ban it as the financial implications are negligible. It's the low hanging fruit.

Clutching at straws to suggest this is where the spread is coming from. And by attacking the low hanging fruit with seemingly nonsensical restrictions you are at serious risk of losing your audience.

Hurrache · 19-08-2020 08:48AM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Out playing together and going to camps is completely different from being stuck in a classroom though. I assune you realise how similar your argument is to the much ridiculed pubs/house parties discussion?

You're missing the point. If there's relatively few cases in the community and no community spread so far, when the schools open, there'll be less chance of anything being spread within them too.

It's nothing like the house party discussion.

is_that_so · 19-08-2020 08:50AM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

So we need to pass legislation to reduce the risk of 10 people gathering in a room, so we can continue to open schools where we'll have 30 people in a room?

Where's the logic here? I'm not disputing that education is more important, it absolutely is, but if the former is unsafe then the latter is certainly unsafe?

It's controlled V an uncontrolled environment.

plodder · 19-08-2020 08:51AM

is_that_so wrote: »

They've done their work via the emergency legislation back in March. It'll be done by an SI from the minister pending review by AG.

Does that specifically cover the power to enter a dwelling? There seems to be some question over that given how strong the constitutional protection is.

is_that_so · 19-08-2020 08:52AM

prunudo wrote: »

Clutching at straws to suggest this is where the spread is coming from. And by attacking the low hanging fruit with seemingly nonsensical restrictions you are at serious risk of losing your audience.

The spread is still limited, this is a prophylactic measure to help it stay that way. Schools mean up to 1m+ more moving about daily.

Covid 19 Part XXI-27,908 in ROI (1,777 deaths) 6,647 in NI (559 deaths)(22/08)Read OP

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