Masks

Tork · 17-08-2020 02:59PM

Yes: to protect others

I don't just blame younger people because there are plenty of older ones who should know better too. But I observe people are I go about my day to day life and they are predominantly the ones who don't give a sh*t. They're hanging around in groups, going to house parties (some on my estate, just in case you think I'm making this up), not wearing masks until last week, not bothering to keep their distance and not putting hand sanitizer on their hands before going into the shops. They are the demographic who don't worry about catching the virus themselves so they're going around acting as normal.

The government hasn't handled things brilliantly but blaming them absolves people of personal responsibility.

Sconsey · 17-08-2020 03:00PM

No: other

GT89 wrote: »

Blame younger people as usual for doing normal things. Don't dare blame the government the actual ones responsible for this mess as it's far more convienent to blame other people.

You're right of course, the government are the ones going round spreading the virus, not giving a damn about broader society.

GT89 · 17-08-2020 03:00PM

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

odyssey06 wrote: »

It's not about deaths??? I completely reject that any argument which starts from that premise. It has no foundation or merit.

You can't live as normal if you are dead or isolating can you.
You want to live as normal while condemning others to cocooning?

While the vulnerable can take extra measures to protect themselves, they cannot isolate for months on end.
Nor can they be kept in a bubble - they need care, food, medicines, medical appointments, treatments etc from the outside world.

We can't have the virus circulating in the community widely because even among the 'not at risk' groups there would be too many hospitalisations.

As has been explained numerous times on the thread, mask wearing was brought in as other restrictions eased.
The experience of other countries and in our own health and care setting show how effective masks are.

Cooconing is not madatory those who are vulnerable can take the risk and go out if they like. Plenty of elderly out during lockdown. The virus may kill some but won't kill other it ain't gonna cause society to fall apart or kill off human life or any other mad notion.

Tork · 17-08-2020 03:02PM

Yes: to protect others

So wouldn't it be nice if the people who are vulnerable could venture out more safely. In other words, being able to do their shopping or take teh bus without the risk of inhaling infected droplets expelled by a non-mask wearer?

bush · 17-08-2020 03:02PM

No: other

Tork wrote: »

How about because people have got complacent and aren't following the advice they had? Leaving aside the clusters in the factories, we've got people having house parties, not keeping their distance outdoors etc. Most of us are hopefully not going to house parties or behaving as if the virus has gone but we have a greater risk of exposure to the virus in places such as supermarkets and public transport. The twentysomethings putting your groceries on the shelves in the supermarket, serving you or simply shopping in there are there can be the same ones who were hanging out with their mates and generally exposing themselves to the virus.

So your blaming supermarket workers now for spreading the virus?

Tork · 17-08-2020 03:02PM

Yes: to protect others

No I'm not and you know it. Read back what I wrote. You're seeing what you want to see. Stop putting up strawmen.

lucernarian · 17-08-2020 03:04PM

Hunky Monster wrote: »

“We do not recommend masks, gloves or other protective measures for the general public” - Dr.Tony Holahan.

We do not recommend the use of masks for the general public as per WHO recommendations due to risks and other unintended consequences” - Dr.Tony Holahan.

“The advice we have from the WHO is to not make masks mandatory” - Simon Harris.

I’ll post the videos of all this if someone doubts me.

Tony Holohan basically ****ed up there, but then this is the WHO's fault and ultimately China's fault and Ireland could only go about it reactively. Hospitals would have had their stocks purloined by staff and visitors if the message was "masks prevent spread and infection of this". It was short term political messaging while we waited for those aer Lingus flights to build up stockpiles for supermarket shelves. It would be better for the govt to admit they were controlling demand for them and using some of the phase 1 measures to make up for the complete absence of masks in Ireland to the general public.

And ultimately, social distancing still works better than masks etc alone, especially with the way many gob****es wear them.

one armed dwarf · 17-08-2020 03:05PM

No: other

The point is that cocooning just the vulnerable is pointless and impossible if the virus is allowed to generally circulate. They will not be able to avoid catching it if no mitigation measures are being practiced by the rest of the population.

Protecting others doesn't start with just the vulnerable adopting mask wearing and SD.

odyssey06 · 17-08-2020 03:11PM

GT89 wrote: »

Cooconing is not madatory those who are vulnerable can take the risk and go out if they like. Plenty of elderly out during lockdown. The virus may kill some but won't kill other it ain't gonna cause society to fall apart or kill off human life or any other mad notion.

Who said it would? Drawing strawman comparisons shows your argument has no foundation.
It has the capacity to overwhelm our health service.
It has the capacity to kill tens of thousands of people who would otherwise have been able to lead lives with decent quality of life for years or decades to come.

Your posts are incoherent and contradictory. First you say vulnerable should cocoon, now you say they should go out.

Away With The Fairies · 17-08-2020 03:17PM

Yes: valved

GT89 wrote: »

It's not about deaths. It's about being able to live as normal as possible. It's mostly over 80s and underlying health conditions who die so isolate those and let the rest of us continue as normal without lockdown or masks simple as.

If mask wearing is so effective why have CV19 cases gone up in Ireland since we all started wearing them? CV19 rates were lower 6 weeks ago when only few were wearing them.

Oh lord, such rubbish. Do you realise that healthy non-vulnerable people has friends and family that are? Do you want to isolate them as well? Like carers, they have to go out and do the shopping. How do we protect carers who has to go home to their vulnerable family members? Do we isolate them as well? Isolate carers of carers? All because you want some normal. There's no normal for any of us anymore, so stop making excuses and just wear a mask.

CalamariFritti · 17-08-2020 03:26PM

Sconsey wrote: »

I don't think logic works with you. You ignore evidence, deny the science and proclaim masks to be a craze worn by virtue-signalers.

I am far from denying science or evidence. Im all science and evidence. What else is there?

I'm just not mixing science with children's logic and fetching conclusions from thin air. I'm science all the way.

GT89 · 17-08-2020 03:29PM

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Oh lord, such rubbish. Do you realise that healthy non-vulnerable people has friends and family that are? Do you want to isolate them as well? Like carers, they have to go out and do the shopping. How do we protect carers who has to go home to their vulnerable family members? Do we isolate them as well? Isolate carers of carers? All because you want some normal. There's no normal for any of us anymore, so stop making excuses and just wear a mask.

We should be treated like allowed adults and allowed to make our own decisions. Whether an inducidual wants to wear a mask or not, whether an induvidual wants to stay at home etc.

Tork · 17-08-2020 03:35PM

Yes: to protect others

So you think it's OK for somebody who has Covid-19 to go to work, meet their friends, pop into Dunnes for their week's shopping and freely cough/sneeze/talk and release droplets into the air. I see.

GT89 · 17-08-2020 03:38PM

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

Tork wrote: »

So you think it's OK for somebody who has Covid-19 to go to work, meet their friends, pop into Dunnes for their week's shopping and freely cough/sneeze/talk and release droplets into the air. I see.

I couldn't give a sh1te really tbh. Dosen't really happen though anyway.

Away With The Fairies · 17-08-2020 03:39PM

Yes: valved

GT89 wrote: »

We should be treated like allowed adults and allowed to make our own decisions. Whether an inducidual wants to wear a mask or not, whether an induvidual wants to stay at home etc.

Just think about it. The virus leaves a person's mouth and nose through talking, shouting, singing, coughing and sneezing.

Nobody should be allowed to make their own decisions and infect others. It's pure selfish.

bush · 17-08-2020 03:39PM

No: other

Who's going around coughing and sneezing all over the place?

Tork · 17-08-2020 03:41PM

Yes: to protect others

GT89 wrote: »

I couldn't gove a sh1te really tbh. Dosen't really happen though anyway.

That's what I thought - you don't give a ****e. Glad you admitted it.

As for the latter - there are people walking around who have Covid-19. Some know they have it, some don't. When they cough, sneeze, speak or otherwise expel droplets, they can infect others if they aren't wearing a mask. That does not suit your narrative, does it? Because you don't give a ****e.

political analyst · 17-08-2020 03:41PM

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Oh lord, such rubbish. Do you realise that healthy non-vulnerable people has friends and family that are? Do you want to isolate them as well? Like carers, they have to go out and do the shopping. How do we protect carers who has to go home to their vulnerable family members? Do we isolate them as well? Isolate carers of carers? All because you want some normal. There's no normal for any of us anymore, so stop making excuses and just wear a mask.

They can wear masks when they are in close proximity to those who people who are vulnerable, just like healthcare workers do in the presence of vulnerable patients.

odyssey06 · 17-08-2020 03:41PM

GT89 wrote: »

We should be treated like allowed adults and allowed to make our own decisions. Whether an inducidual wants to wear a mask or not, whether an induvidual wants to stay at home etc.

We don't allow an individual to make decisions on the below because their decision does not only affect their own health:
Seat belts.
Drink driving laws.
Smoking in public places.
Having a roadworthy vehicle.

In my mind, during this pandemic, to that list:
Wearing of masks in enclosed public places.

Tork · 17-08-2020 03:42PM

Yes: to protect others

bush wrote: »

Who's going around coughing and sneezing all over the place?

I have been in shops in the last fortnight where people (wearing masks, thankfully) had chesty coughing fits.

political analyst · 17-08-2020 03:45PM

Tork wrote: »

So you think it's OK for somebody who has Covid-19 to go to work, meet their friends, pop into Dunnes for their week's shopping and freely cough/sneeze/talk and release droplets into the air. I see.

The message "Catch it, bin it, kill it" was enough to deal with swine flu in 2009.

Furthermore, the flu is spread by droplets coming out of the mouth but we don't have shutdowns or mandatory mask-wearing for that.

MickeyLeari · 17-08-2020 03:45PM

Yes: surgical

Tork wrote: »

So you think it's OK for somebody who has Covid-19 to go to work, meet their friends, pop into Dunnes for their week's shopping and freely cough/sneeze/talk and release droplets into the air. I see.

Well there are strong odds that you did share a shop or pub with someone with he virus in March/April. 250k plus had it according to antibody tests (this is he low end).

Graham · 17-08-2020 03:45PM

GT89 wrote: »

We should be treated like allowed adults and allowed to make our own decisions. Whether an inducidual wants to wear a mask or not, whether an induvidual wants to stay at home etc.

Unfortunately there are too many people not willing to act like adults and accept that they have a responsibility to others around them.

political analyst · 17-08-2020 03:48PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

We don't allow an individual to make decisions on the below because their decision does not only affect their own health:
Seat belts.
Drink driving laws.
Smoking in public places.
Having a roadworthy vehicle.

In my mind, during this pandemic, to that list:
Wearing of masks in enclosed public places.

A secondary teacher who I know finds it uncomfortable to wear a mask in a supermarket and is apprehensive about having to wear it all day at work.

Tork · 17-08-2020 03:50PM

Yes: to protect others

political analyst wrote: »

The message "Catch it, bin it, kill it" was enough to deal with swine flu in 2009.

Furthermore, the flu is spread by droplets coming out of the mouth but we don't have shutdowns or mandatory mask-wearing for that.

Swine Flu and Coronavirus are very different beasts though.

Sconsey · 17-08-2020 03:50PM

No: other

GT89 wrote: »

I couldn't give a sh1te really tbh. Dosen't really happen though anyway.

So you don't give a sh1t who gets the virus, and you are in denial of community transmission.

lucernarian · 17-08-2020 03:50PM

political analyst wrote: »

The message "Catch it, bin it, kill it" was enough to deal with swine flu in 2009.

Furthermore, the flu is spread by droplets coming out of the mouth but we don't have shutdowns or mandatory mask-wearing for that.

One disease is far more lethal than the other, both in primary and secondary effects. Have you lived in a cave through 2020?

And we had a vaccine in place the same year...

Graham · 17-08-2020 03:51PM

political analyst wrote: »

A secondary teacher who I know finds it uncomfortable to wear a mask in a supermarket and is apprehensive about having to wear it all day at work.

I don't think anyone finds them particularly comfortable, nor do they relish the thoughts of wearing them all day where required.

I guess you console yourself with the fact that a ventilator is even more uncomfortable for yourself or those around you.

Loafing Oaf · 17-08-2020 03:51PM

No: I don't care enough

bush wrote: »

Who's going around coughing and sneezing all over the place?

In case you hadn't noticed, sneezing in particular is not entirely at the individual's discretion, and the into the elbow thing isn't always watertight. Hence the masks and the social distancing...

political analyst · 17-08-2020 03:54PM

lucernarian wrote: »

One disease is far more lethal than the other, both in primary and secondary effects. Have you lived in a cave through 2020?

SARS CoV 2 is less lethal than SARS CoV 1, which broke out in 2002.

Masks

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