Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

i_surge wrote: »

Your proposal is both long term impracticable and will cripple the economy, death by 1000 cuts, as well as being depressingly uncertain and impotent.

Mine is geared for long term success, it takes buy in though which is probably impossible though given the low standards here.

Closing off travel to all but the essential for a while is a no brainer.

OK let's think this through..

We prevent all international travel - Are we letting people abroad on holidays, business, whatever at the moment come home first? If not, are we/the State going to pay to put them up wherever they are until we reopen?

We close the border with NI - What about those who live on one side but work on the other?

We close/heavily restrict ports - How are we going to manage the huge shortages and delays this will cause on essential imports, not to mention the impact on the export industry?

How long do we keep this up for? Given this country is a hub of international trade, travel and business, we have people and goods coming and going from all over the world. As those countries are in various stages of dealing with CV-19 themselves, do we wait until the very last one gets to 0.0 spread? How long do you estimate that'll take.

How do you propose to deal with the devastating effect on jobs, businesses and tax take in the meantime? You do realise the current "unlimited" credit approach isn't actually unlimited?

That's just off the top of my head.. but I'm genuinely curious as to how you think your idea is workable in the real world.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

OK let's think this through..

We prevent all international travel - Are we letting people abroad on holidays, business, whatever at the moment come home first? If not, are we/the State going to pay to put them up wherever they are until we reopen?

We close the border with NI - What about those who live on one side but work on the other?

We close/heavily restrict ports - How are we going to manage the huge shortages and delays this will cause on essential imports, not to mention the impact on the export industry?

How long do we keep this up for? Given this country is a hub of international trade, travel and business, we have people and goods coming and going from all over the world. As those countries are in various stages of dealing with CV-19 themselves, do we wait until the very last one gets to 0.0 spread? How long do you estimate that'll take.

How do you propose to deal with the devastating effect on jobs, businesses and tax take in the meantime? You do realise the current "unlimited" credit approach isn't actually unlimited?

That's just off the top of my head.. but I'm genuinely curious as to how you think your idea is workable in the real world.

We cant do a new zealand. New zealand imports are very limited even on the clothes market.

We are a global country and cant shut borders down. We can do a counties lockdown which currently leaves us in limbo as meant to return to Dublin tomorrow and head to Waterford on Tuesday.

Idbatterim wrote: »

If those wasters were anywhere near as concerned, about the other host of crisises going on in this country for decades, as they are about covid, the place mightnt be the banana republic it is...

You do raise a valid point IB... those issues haven't gone away and as we've seen with that high-profile eviction in Dublin this week, the issues are still very much real.

Wait till Brexit hits and the Budget before it. When the recession starts to kick in and many more lose jobs or start struggling to pay their ridiculous rents or mortgages, what then? Are we going to impose a blanket freeze on everything for 12 months? How about the 800k now on waiting lists. How many of them will die from what would now be treatable conditions?

CV-19 has been a catch-all for extraordinary emergency measures, but nothing has been done to address these problems.

average_runner wrote: »

We cant do a new zealand. New zealand imports are very limited even on the clothes market.

We are a global country and cant shut borders down. We can do a counties lockdown which currently leaves us in limbo as meant to return to Dublin tomorrow and head to Waterford on Tuesday.

That's my point. The poster's idea of "lockdown to Zero" is well-intentioned and noble... but not at all realistic or practical.

The same applies to most of the approaches we've taken thus far. Emergency measures work only in the short term. That's what Lockdown in March was (buy time for the health services to ramp up and get people's attention). It was never intended to be - and isn't suitable as - a long-term measure.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

That's a complete contradiction to your proposal above for a hard national lockdown for as long as it takes to get to zero,

Give him a job at NPHET. Fit right in.

i_surge wrote: »

Nope, you just aren't reading between the lines. Virus could be eradicated by Christmas if we weren't so shockingly hapless.

NZ is also a modern economy and has loads of international travel, people talk like it is a tiny polynesian microstate. Mostly ignorance imo and imagined obstacles to your freedom.

But you can dine out criticising the government for years on this one, just let it draw out, stop start lockdowns, uncertainty, kids missing school, vulnerable people become the forgotten and the businesses will be bled dry from low consumer sentiment. Barring medical intervention or the virus dying off on its own that is all a certainty.

The cure for the economic and mental health problems is eradication. Nothing else will work.

Jesus what school did you go too?

i_surge wrote: »

Nope, you just aren't reading between the lines. Virus could be eradicated by Christmas if we weren't so shockingly hapless.

NZ is also a modern economy and has loads of international travel, people talk like it is a tiny polynesian microstate. Mostly ignorance imo and imagined obstacles to your freedom.

But you can dine out criticising the government for years on this one, just let it draw out, stop start lockdowns, uncertainty, kids missing school, vulnerable people become the forgotten and the businesses will be bled dry from low consumer sentiment. Barring medical intervention or the virus dying off on its own that is all a certainty.

The cure for the economic and mental health problems is eradication. Nothing else will work.

How do you eradicate it Global though. No country can get to zero and stay there alone. It just won't happen.

i_surge wrote: »

Live domestically in relative bliss until things improve.

So your suggestion is to cut ourselves off from the rest of the world until this goes away one way or another.

And you think that's practical? You said you had answers to the questions I put to you earlier. Please elaborate.

i_surge wrote: »

???

Any chance you might stick the subject? Am I wrong and how?

I am and that saying means your talking out your hole. In a polite way.

i_surge wrote: »

I am serious. I won't bother any further, wrong audience, closed minded.

You do realise the the MNC and their employees contribute an eye watering amount of tax to the government coffers. How would you replace this overnight?

If you have no plan to do this then you have no plan at all, so what is your great scheme for this?

i_surge wrote: »

Nope, you just aren't reading between the lines. Virus could be eradicated by Christmas if we weren't so shockingly hapless.

NZ is also a modern economy and has loads of international travel, people talk like it is a tiny polynesian microstate. Mostly ignorance imo and imagined obstacles to your freedom.

But you can dine out criticising the government for years on this one, just let it draw out, stop start lockdowns, uncertainty, kids missing school, vulnerable people become the forgotten and the businesses will be bled dry from low consumer sentiment. Barring medical intervention or the virus dying off on its own that is all a certainty.

The cure for the economic and mental health problems is eradication. Nothing else will work.

you are using NZ as an example of the right way to handle this yet correct me if I’m wrong but even they (4K miles from another country) are now back in a lockdown which could last for god knows how long . This nullifies your theory that this is even a consideration Ireland should make.