Covid 19 Part XXI-27,908 in ROI (1,777 deaths) 6,647 in NI (559 deaths)(22/08)Read OP

DevilsHaircut · 16-08-2020 10:22PM

road_high wrote: »

No but they must be serviced out of national exchequer. Meaning less money for all the things like welfare, healthcare, education that the public enjoy to the current high standards

The interest must be paid, currently around 0%.

I think it must be obvious at this stage any the tax/spend rebalancing needed in the short term will be targeted at capital taxes.

Strumms · 16-08-2020 10:24PM

CalamariFritti wrote: »

So we're in meltdown mode cos some kids had a few drinks and danced and someone filmed it? Or was there 500 cases today that I missed?

We are in ‘concerned mode’ because of ‘people’ ( forget the age demographic, covid doesn’t care) who are being careless and selfish in their behaviors...

Away With The Fairies · 16-08-2020 10:24PM

CalamariFritti wrote: »

So we're in meltdown mode cos some kids had a few drinks and danced and someone filmed it? Or was there 500 cases today that I missed?

It was the irresponsibility of them. It takes one of them to spread it to others around them. They take it home to their families. They might feel fine tomorrow morning and go into work and spread it in work.

pjohnson · 16-08-2020 10:25PM

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

It was the irresponsibility of them. It takes one of them to spread it to others around them. They take it home to their families. They might feel fine tomorrow morning and go into work and spread it in work.

Can only hope most are unemployed and wont get an admish to a workplace

coastwatch · 16-08-2020 10:25PM

The outbreaks associated with factories and work places over the past two weeks have caused of the current spikes.
It's probably good that it has happened over a short period of time and in so many locations, meat plants, pet food plants, mushroom plants, because it highlights the current "weakest links" in this, and how it can spread from the community into a work place and then back into the wider community even more.
The HSA (Health and Safety Authority) need to be given the powers to risk assess and force temporary closures of these types of operations.
They should be risk assessing the working environment and just as importantly, employees living arrangements.
GP referrals and testing should be at no cost to the employee.
They also need to ensure all employees qualify for the Covid Illness payment, regardless of the type of employment contract.

road_high · 16-08-2020 10:25PM

DevilsHaircut wrote: »

The interest must be paid, currently around 0%.

I think it must be obvious at this stage any the tax/spend rebalancing needed in the short term will be targeted at capital taxes.

Have no idea what our current debt servicing costs are per annum tbh (it had been falling as a % of GDP) but it did run to many billions still?
Which worries me a time if shrinking economy and hugely increased borrowing

Rambling Man · 16-08-2020 10:26PM

CalamariFritti wrote: »

So we're in meltdown mode cos some kids had a few drinks and danced and someone filmed it? Or was there 500 cases today that I missed? No seriously what's going?

Yeah and they were dancing to ‘The Killers’ - an obvious reference to their attitude to Covid19

DevilsHaircut · 16-08-2020 10:28PM

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Unless interest rates stay at near 0 forever, at some point that rolling over is going to be at an interest rate that will have a severe effect on the exchequer.

The effect of inflation serves to reduce the national debt over time.

Really, with most countries in the same boat and the EU underwriting everyone to the tune of €750bn, it's not something that people should panic about.

Money doesn't actually exist.

Tenzor07 · 16-08-2020 10:29PM

DevilsHaircut wrote: »

National debts are never repaid.
That's the point.
They are rolled over.

Higher national debt = more risk of defaulting on Bonds when due.
Higher risk to investors/purchasers of Irish debt bonds = higher interest
Higher interest on Irish debt = higher taxes on everything from your wages to food
Higher taxes = less spending, cash flow in the economy grinds to a halt
State can't pay Civil service, nurses, gards, teachers.
We go back to the 1980's in terms of power cuts, public service strikes..
Companies pull out of Ireland due to the financial situation.

Only thing slowing down this longer term scenario is that we're in the Euro... however Germany, Netherlands and the other wealthier northern Euro members won't keep using their taxpayers cash to keep paying Ireland's bills... They already don't want to pay for Southern Europes financial issues.

Another lockdown will bring the state closer to the above..

CalamariFritti · 16-08-2020 10:29PM

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

It was the irresponsibility of them. It takes one of them to spread it to others around them. They take it home to their families. They might feel fine tomorrow morning and go into work and spread it in work.

So its really that then? Jesus guys. I can guarantee you that for every such session that ends up getting filmed there are 500 that aren't.

Serious overreaction once again.

Strumms · 16-08-2020 10:33PM

CalamariFritti wrote: »

So its really that then? Jesus guys. I can guarantee you that for every such session that ends up getting filmed there are 500 that aren't.

Serious overreaction once again.

It’s simply not an overreaction. Rather any overreaction though to some saying “ ahhh few drinks and letting their hair down, no harm done” and enabling people to believe that after all the hard work and sacrifices that’s ok... it ain’t.

hmmm · 16-08-2020 10:34PM

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I can guarantee you that for every such session that ends up getting filmed there are 500 that aren't.

I think that's the wider point and the focus of people's anger.

Most people are doing their best to try and abide by the public health guidance, and it's tough. They know there is a 10% out there who don't give a damn, and in many ways are rubbing their lack of care into the faces of those who do care - house parties, no attempts at social distancing, not wearing masks etc.

This pub/restaurant whatever it is has provided the public with a way to focus their anger on that group. I don't think anyone wants their local restaurant to be shut down as a consequence and there would be a lot of anger if there was, but they want something done about people who they feel are behaving in a way which is a flagrant breach of the wider national effort to keep case numbers down.

Hand in Your Pants · 16-08-2020 10:35PM

They were just having a little fun.

road_high · 16-08-2020 10:35PM

CalamariFritti wrote: »

So its really that then? Jesus guys. I can guarantee you that for every such session that ends up getting filmed there are 500 that aren't.

Serious overreaction once again.

It’s trial by social media. I’ve actually deactivated Facebook as I can’t take anymore of it personally.
Opportunistic idiots like Noel rock and co with their faux outrage- daily sustenance for the baying perma outraged mobs, fcuk off please!

Tmoro it’ll be something else. People have too much time on their hands- desperately need work, education, sports and events to put in their time. This toxic ****e is negative poison

CalamariFritti · 16-08-2020 10:36PM

The reality is the longer this goes on the more responsibility and compliance will erode. So are we saying we should go full police state on them?

owlbethere · 16-08-2020 10:39PM

road_high wrote: »

Have no idea what our current debt servicing costs are per annum tbh (it had been falling as a % of GDP) but it did run to many billions still?
Which worries me a time if shrinking economy and hugely increased borrowing

All the more reasons for starting to slap massive fines upon the population for breaking public health guidelines. I know it won't fix the billions of a deficit but the more the virus is suppressed the quicker we get back to some sort of normality. People flaunting the guidelines and the virus will spread more and there will be more lockdowns like regional lockdowns. I was witness over the past week to someone not restricting their movements and contacts even though they had a cold. I know some people will argue, it's a cold, leave them be, if we all isolated with a cold, the world would stop turning. Tony said the days of going to work and school with colds are over. If everyone went about with colds and self diagnosing themselves with colds and telling themselves they don't need a covid19, there's going to be times where them colds may be something more sinister. We all have a part to play going forward to maintain social distancing, avoid crowds, keep close contacts low, isolate ourselves if we feel unwell

fly_agaric · 16-08-2020 10:39PM

coastwatch wrote: »

The HSA (Health and Safety Authority) need to be given the powers to risk assess and force temporary closures of these types of operations.
They should be risk assessing the working environment and just as importantly, employees living arrangements.

Does Ireland have the numbers of inspectors & any systems in place to do that for workplaces all over the country? It is an honest question. I don't know but have my doubts that we do (given 'light touch' regulation of employers that seems to be favoured here and has popped up again as a problem now).

road_high · 16-08-2020 10:39PM

CalamariFritti wrote: »

The reality is the longer this goes on the more responsibility and compliance will erode. So are we saying we should go full police state on them?

Watch it go underground. Then what? Arrest people on mass? Dangerous territory in terms of personal liberties but no doubt heaven for the perma outraged in society.

Bubbaclaus · 16-08-2020 10:40PM

DevilsHaircut wrote: »

The effect of inflation serves to reduce the national debt over time.

Really, with most countries in the same boat and the EU underwriting everyone to the tune of €750bn, it's not something that people should panic about.

Money doesn't actually exist.

I take it you have no economic knowledge with comments like that.

That 750bn isnt coming out of thin air FYI. Ireland will be paying for more of it then it will actually receive.

Eric Cartman · 16-08-2020 10:41PM

pjohnson wrote: »

Can only hope most are unemployed and wont get an admish to a workplace

bingo.

People calling for pitchforks for the bar owner, word on the street is the rent moratorium is ending soon as is the business continuation payment, they weren't going to be around to see the lockdown lifted anyway.

I suspect a few more publicans will have a similar 'last hoorah' when their accountants tell them continuation isn't viable.

DevilsHaircut · 16-08-2020 10:43PM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Higher national debt = more risk of defaulting on Bonds when due....

Those who have money are actually paying central banks to take it, and are giving it to governments for 0 interest.

Every single country in the world (bar China probably) will have a higher national debt after this.

Seriously, there's a lot of hysteria and fear-mongering among the economist types on here :cool:

Tenzor07 · 16-08-2020 10:45PM

CalamariFritti wrote: »

The reality is the longer this goes on the more responsibility and compliance will erode. So are we saying we should go full police state on them?

The Irish are extremely compliant, and the reaction to a group of young people having a party has shown this... May Be part begrudgery as the Irish are known for...the reaction to seeing what people have been doing in Bars for decades has been to paint these young people as criminals, miscreants and traitors to the national cause....

The fact is the scenario we saw on social media today is going on in 1000's of houses all over the country... Companies selling beer kegs and taps can't keep them in stock, supermarkets sell a can of beer cheaper than a litre of milk..
There's more cocaine being snorted up noses at these parties and it's all cheap and easily available too as dealers try make cash by selling cheap and destroying the competition...literally.

political analyst · 16-08-2020 10:45PM

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

For a child living in the same house as a grandparent?

I doubt there are many families where children are living in the same house as their grandparents, to be honest. Besides, it's not necessarily difficult to ensure an adequate distance between the grandparent and the child in the same room.

Strumms · 16-08-2020 10:46PM

Marty Bird wrote: »

Sure any disease or virus that has been discovered throughout human history is still with us today in some shape or form.

Marty.

According to the WHO there have only been one virus is the history of humanity that has been eradicated.... Smallpox..the other virus only effects animals.

Polio is on the way to being eradicated ...

DevilsHaircut · 16-08-2020 10:48PM

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

I take it you have no economic knowledge with comments like that.

That 750bn isnt coming out of thin air FYI. Ireland will be paying for more of it then it will actually receive.

Paying the interest.

Do you think we'd stand a better chance outside the EU, rather than shouldering a proportionate part of the debt depending on need?

coastwatch · 16-08-2020 10:48PM

fly_agaric wrote: »

Does Ireland have the numbers of inspectors & any systems in place to do that for workplaces all over the country? It is an honest question. I don't know but have my doubts that we do (given 'light touch' regulation of employers that seems to be favoured here and has popped up again as a problem now).

I'm sure the number of inspectors and systems are not currently there, so they need to move very fast and re-deploy internally, and fast-track inspector training, because now we know these are the work places where outbreaks happen, resulting in county lockdowns / restrictions.

CalamariFritti · 16-08-2020 10:52PM

The way I see it we need to find a way out of this or its all going to turn ugly quite soon. Don't think we have to the end of the year even.

We seriously overreacted at the start driven by genuine concern and that was understandable, but then it turned into non stop hysteria and the longer this goes on and the more it turns out to be - well the overreaction that it is - and the clearer it becomes that we are hell bent of not ever snapping out of it the more people will just turn and say fk this.

We can now either try to find some pragmatism and real solutions or turn the whole place into a police state with some serious rifts in society. We're coming closer to the end of the road one way or the other.

Bubbaclaus · 16-08-2020 10:52PM

DevilsHaircut wrote: »

Paying the interest.

Do you think we'd stand a better chance outside the EU, rather than shouldering a proportionate part of the debt depending on need?

Big tangent with your question, but I'll answer anyway - absolutely not. Ireland benefits greatly from being in the EU.

GooglePlus · 16-08-2020 10:54PM

CalamariFritti wrote: »

The way I see it we need to find a way out of this or its all going to turn ugly quite soon. Don't think we have to the end of the year even.

We seriously overreacted at the start driven by genuine concern and that was understandable, but then it turned into non stop hysteria and the longer this goes on and the more it turns out to be - well the overreaction that it is - and the clearer it becomes that we are hell bent of not ever snapping out of it the more people will just turn and say fk this.

We can now either try to find some pragmatism and real solutions or turn the whole place into a police state with some serious rifts in society. We're coming closer to the end of the road one way or the other.

I think you're right and I can't see how they'll contain the population at Christmas time.

DevilsHaircut · 16-08-2020 10:55PM

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Big tangent with your question, but I'll answer anyway - absolutely not. Ireland benefits greatly from being in the EU.

You complained that 'Ireland will be paying for more of it then [sic] it will actually receive'.

Which doesn't actually matter, unless you think we could do better on our own.

Covid 19 Part XXI-27,908 in ROI (1,777 deaths) 6,647 in NI (559 deaths)(22/08)Read OP

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