Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings

FintanMcluskey · 15-08-2020 10:06AM

Assetbacked wrote: »

https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casesinireland/epidemiologyofcovid-19inireland/

Latest case data, approximately 75% of cases are under the age of 65 and the death rate is so low, even noting it is conservatively estimated, it is barely worse than the flu and at least not worth shutting society down for.

Age groups and case fatality rate (deaths "with" covid are counted and we have under counted cases due to levels of testing so maybe these are many multiples higher of what is actually the case);

0 to 14 is 0%.
15 to 24 is 0.05% or 1 in 2000.
25 to 34 is 0.11% or 1 in 1000
35 to 44 is 0.25% or 1 in 400.
45 to 54 is 0.5% or 1 in 200.
55 to 64 is 2.03% or 1 in 50.
65 to 74 is 12.26% or 1 in 8.
75 to 84 is 22.4% or 1 in 5.
85+ is 27.72% or 1 in 4.

There are now 0 cases in ICU and 8 cases in hospital.

https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/

A vaccine looks utterly pointless so I feel it is a carrot and stick for the gullible masses to give up their civil liberties. As I said in the other thread, I am in Germany and they are so far ahead of Ireland in terms of what is open and, more importantly, how they actually feel about the virus; they are not afraid, they are just going about their daily lives as normal with a mask when indoors on public transport or in a shop but that's it. Sport clubs are open, gyms and saunas, cafes and bars, shops with no queues to get in - it is only large gatherings like nightclubs and sporting crowds that I can see are not open. Ireland seems to be going off on its own reckless solo run with respect to reopening society and it is really eye opening going to another EU country that you see this.

Imagine devoloping a vaccine for something with those stats

Penfailed · 15-08-2020 10:16AM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Imagine devoloping a vaccine for something with those stats

Why develop a vaccine for influenza, in that case?

Cona · 15-08-2020 10:36AM

May I ask an obvious question?

Most people seem to now be standing back and looking at the virus and the subsequent lock-down as a complete over-reaction. The recent post on the stats shows that it is almost harmless in Ireland....BUT why in that case did we see so many deaths in Italy where 1000s of people completely over-whelmed the ICUs and dead bodies got taken away in trucks?

So, basically i'm confused because in Italy it seemed like some deadly life threatening virus that caused sheer destruction but in Ireland it seems like a few sniffles and a cough and your grand....

Wanderer78 · 15-08-2020 10:39AM

Cona wrote: »

May I ask an obvious question?

Most people seem to now be standing back and looking at the virus and the subsequent lock-down as a complete over-reaction. The recent post on the stats shows that it is almost harmless in Ireland....BUT why in that case did we see so many deaths in Italy where 1000s of people completely over-whelmed the ICUs and dead bodies got taken away in trucks?

So, basically i'm confused because in Italy it seemed like some deadly life threatening virus that caused sheer destruction but in Ireland it seems like a few sniffles and a cough and your grand....

interesting!

FintanMcluskey · 15-08-2020 10:47AM

Cona wrote: »

May I ask an obvious question?

Most people seem to now be standing back and looking at the virus and the subsequent lock-down as a complete over-reaction. The recent post on the stats shows that it is almost harmless in Ireland....BUT why in that case did we see so many deaths in Italy where 1000s of people completely over-whelmed the ICUs and dead bodies got taken away in trucks?

So, basically i'm confused because in Italy it seemed like some deadly life threatening virus that caused sheer destruction but in Ireland it seems like a few sniffles and a cough and your grand....

The region in northern Italy had the oldest population in Europe with a population of 10m in an area the size of Munster. Demographics caused that

Interestingly, a citizen over the age of 65 was at less risk of a Covid death in Italy than a citizen over 65 in Ireland.

So If you were over 65, living in Ireland and looking for somewhere safer to avoid dying from Covid, Italy would have been a safer place.

The Irish media has done a fantastic job of removing the spotlight from Ireland

facehugger99 · 15-08-2020 10:59AM

Even if they lifted all the restrictions tomorrow, they have indoctrinated people with so much fear it's difficult to see how the economy will recover.

There are hundreds of thousands of people who've spent months listening to the politicians, RTE and NHEPT tell them what a deadly disease were dealing with.

It's difficult to snap these people out of their own hysteria.

Compared to our continental cousins, Irish people and their political leaders have really shown ourselves up and it's going to cost us billions.

Wanderer78 · 15-08-2020 11:03AM

facehugger99 wrote: »

Even if they lifted all the restrictions tomorrow, they have indoctrinated people with so much fear it's difficult to see how the economy will recover.

There are hundreds of thousands of people who've spent months listening to the politicians, RTE and NHEPT tell them what a deadly disease were dealing with.

It's difficult to snap these people out of their own hysteria.

Compared to our continental cousins, Irish people and their political leaders have really shown ourselves up and it's going to cost us billions.

you re listening to too much american nonsense, step away from the internets, theres no wide scale conspiracy going on!

FintanMcluskey · 15-08-2020 11:06AM

facehugger99 wrote: »

Even if they lifted all the restrictions tomorrow, they have indoctrinated people with so much fear it's difficult to see how the economy will recover.

There are hundreds of thousands of people who've spent months listening to the politicians, RTE and NHEPT tell them what a deadly disease were dealing with.

It's difficult to snap these people out of their own hysteria.

Compared to our continental cousins, Irish people and their political leaders have really shown ourselves up and it's going to cost us billions.

Spoke with people who were away on holidays on the continent and they said life was normal, no hysteria

The chairman of Failte Ireland is on holiday in Italy at the minute.

I got some laugh out of that I must say

Assetbacked · 15-08-2020 11:10AM

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1105061/coronavirus-deaths-by-region-in-italy/

On Italy, 386 people under the age of 50 and 4618 between the ages of 50 and 69 died in total from covid as against the total of approximately 245000 cases.

That puts the death rate at a conservative estimate of 1 in 50 or 2% for Italy for the under 70s.

normanoffside · 15-08-2020 11:44AM

Assetbacked wrote: »

https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casesinireland/epidemiologyofcovid-19inireland/

Latest case data, approximately 75% of cases are under the age of 65 and the death rate is so low, even noting it is conservatively estimated, it is barely worse than the flu and at least not worth shutting society down for.

Age groups and case fatality rate (deaths "with" covid are counted and we have under counted cases due to levels of testing so maybe these are many multiples higher of what is actually the case);

0 to 14 is 0%.
15 to 24 is 0.05% or 1 in 2000.
25 to 34 is 0.11% or 1 in 1000
35 to 44 is 0.25% or 1 in 400.
45 to 54 is 0.5% or 1 in 200.
55 to 64 is 2.03% or 1 in 50.
65 to 74 is 12.26% or 1 in 8.
75 to 84 is 22.4% or 1 in 5.
85+ is 27.72% or 1 in 4.

There are now 0 cases in ICU and 8 cases in hospital.

https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/

A vaccine looks utterly pointless so I feel it is a carrot and stick for the gullible masses to give up their civil liberties. As I said in the other thread, I am in Germany and they are so far ahead of Ireland in terms of what is open and, more importantly, how they actually feel about the virus; they are not afraid, they are just going about their daily lives as normal with a mask when indoors on public transport or in a shop but that's it. Sport clubs are open, gyms and saunas, cafes and bars, shops with no queues to get in - it is only large gatherings like nightclubs and sporting crowds that I can see are not open. Ireland seems to be going off on its own reckless solo run with respect to reopening society and it is really eye opening going to another EU country that you see this.

I said it at the start and was ridiculed.
The only reason the the mortality rates for Covid are slightly higher than the flu is because of the annual flu vaccine given to the vulnerable.

It literally is 'just a flu' but one without a vaccine

facehugger99 · 15-08-2020 11:50AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

you re listening to too much american nonsense, step away from the internets, theres no wide scale conspiracy going on!

No idea what you're talking about TBH.

FintanMcluskey · 15-08-2020 11:51AM

normanoffside wrote: »

I said it at the start and was ridiculed.
The only reason the the mortality rates for Covid are slightly higher than the flu is because of the annual flu vaccine given to the vulnerable.

It literally is 'just a flu' but one without a vaccine

It looks somewhere between a flu and a bad cold from what I can see.

lee_baby_simms · 15-08-2020 11:55AM

Just to provide some context....50,000 excess deaths were recorded in the UK in 2018 due to H3N2 flu.

Plenty of children and teenagers were among those who sadly died.

We urgently need to revise our response to this given how we now have data from all over the world that can be used to assess the current risk vs the collateral damage of our governments approach.

Idbatterim · 15-08-2020 11:58AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Again, housing is another complex beast, and an absolute mess, we may need another God for that one!

You say beakth is comex, housing. You know well run countries dont have these issues? Tbis place is a banana repubouc, thats the problem!

Penfailed · 15-08-2020 12:05PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

You say beakth is comex, housing. You know well run countries dont have these issues? Tbis place is a banana repubouc, thats the problem!

I'm not sure that you understand what the term Banana Republic means.

Is there something wrong with your keyboard BTW? You appear to have random letters substituted in some of your words...

Diabhalta · 15-08-2020 12:16PM

Quick question, we had a bit of a argument about this at work.

After arriving from holidays from a country that's not on the green list, is it a legal requirement to self isolate for 14 days? Or is it just a recommendation?

One employee returned from a country that's on the green list and been told to stay home for 14 days (company's policy has changed they said). Employee argued and at the end company is paying those 14 days self-isolation. Makes sense to me.

MickeyLeari · 15-08-2020 12:32PM

Diabhalta wrote: »

Quick question, we had a bit of a argument about this at work.

After arriving from holidays from a country that's not on the green list, is it a legal requirement to self isolate for 14 days? Or is it just a recommendation?

One employee returned from a country that's on the green list and been told to stay home for 14 days (company's policy has changed they said). Employee argued and at the end company is paying those 14 days self-isolation. Makes sense to me.

ISME indicated that where it was non-Green list the employer was entitled to request that the employee takes unpaid leave or used annual leave to cover the “restricted movements” recommendation. However, when it came to Green list countries the recommendation to employers (If they wanted the employee not to come into the office) was either require the employee to work from home or if that was not possible to pay the employee for the period of “restriction of movements”.

http://www.rte.ie/amp/1153544/

Diabhalta · 15-08-2020 12:38PM

I'm still after a legislation. What does the law say?

Are you required by law to stay home for 14 days?

Diabhalta · 15-08-2020 12:40PM

from that RTE article:

"If a civil service employee chooses to go abroad for non-essential travel, they are going against Government advice"

... advice. Okay. It's just and advice. Not a law.

Assetbacked · 15-08-2020 12:40PM

normanoffside wrote: »

I said it at the start and was ridiculed.
The only reason the the mortality rates for Covid are slightly higher than the flu is because of the annual flu vaccine given to the vulnerable.

It literally is 'just a flu' but one without a vaccine

You're dead right, that is a great way to sum up the data;

It is like the flu but without a vaccine to give to the vulnerable.

Wanderer78 · 15-08-2020 12:49PM

Idbatterim wrote:

You say beakth is comex, housing. You know well run countries dont have these issues? Tbis place is a banana repubouc, thats the problem!

A complex mess, of which both the public and private sectors play an equal part in making, nobody knows what to do next, which countries would you be talking about?

Thierry12 · 15-08-2020 12:55PM

Assetbacked wrote: »

You're dead right, that is a great way to sum up the data;

It is like the flu but without a vaccine to give to the vulnerable.

Exactly

Funny thing is the vaccine for Covid isn't looking too good for the vulnerable

It will be given to healthy people who don't need it

You couldn't make it up

MickeyLeari · 15-08-2020 01:00PM

Diabhalta wrote: »

I'm still after a legislation. What does the law say?

Are you required by law to stay home for 14 days?

No you are not required by law to stay at home for 14 days but an employer for health and safety reasons can require it given the Government advice. If from a red zone country they don’t have to pay you, but if from a green zone country it is recommended (presumably a sensible analysis of Labour and EU law) to pay the employee during this period. Law has many different layers to it.

snotboogie · 15-08-2020 01:26PM

normanoffside wrote: »

I said it at the start and was ridiculed.
The only reason the the mortality rates for Covid are slightly higher than the flu is because of the annual flu vaccine given to the vulnerable.

It literally is 'just a flu' but one without a vaccine

Its not "slightly higher than the flu" it's 5 times higher...

Assetbacked · 15-08-2020 01:32PM

snotboogie wrote: »

Its not "slightly higher than the flu" it's 5 times higher...

5 times higher? Surely that is conservative given how covid cases aren't completely captured and deaths are including those "with" covid. I would consider 5 times not worth shutting down society for in any event.

normanoffside · 15-08-2020 01:36PM

snotboogie wrote: »

Its not "slightly higher than the flu" it's 5 times higher...

Maybe in the Vulnerable groups who would normally get a flu vaccine

Micky 32 · 15-08-2020 01:42PM

Thierry12 wrote: »

Exactly

Funny thing is the vaccine for Covid isn't looking too good for the vulnerable

It will be given to healthy people who don't need it

You couldn't make it up

If all the healthy people have the vaccine that means it’s less likely to spread the virus around. That means eventually the old and vulnerable will be less likely to contract the virus. It would create herd immunity. How is that hard to understand?

CalamariFritti · 15-08-2020 01:48PM

Assetbacked wrote: »

https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casesinireland/epidemiologyofcovid-19inireland/

Latest case data, approximately 75% of cases are under the age of 65 and the death rate is so low, even noting it is conservatively estimated, it is barely worse than the flu and at least not worth shutting society down for.

Age groups and case fatality rate (deaths "with" covid are counted and we have under counted cases due to levels of testing so maybe these are many multiples higher of what is actually the case);

0 to 14 is 0%.
15 to 24 is 0.05% or 1 in 2000.
25 to 34 is 0.11% or 1 in 1000
35 to 44 is 0.25% or 1 in 400.
45 to 54 is 0.5% or 1 in 200.
55 to 64 is 2.03% or 1 in 50.
65 to 74 is 12.26% or 1 in 8.
75 to 84 is 22.4% or 1 in 5.
85+ is 27.72% or 1 in 4.

There are now 0 cases in ICU and 8 cases in hospital.

https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/

A vaccine looks utterly pointless so I feel it is a carrot and stick for the gullible masses to give up their civil liberties. As I said in the other thread, I am in Germany and they are so far ahead of Ireland in terms of what is open and, more importantly, how they actually feel about the virus; they are not afraid, they are just going about their daily lives as normal with a mask when indoors on public transport or in a shop but that's it. Sport clubs are open, gyms and saunas, cafes and bars, shops with no queues to get in - it is only large gatherings like nightclubs and sporting crowds that I can see are not open. Ireland seems to be going off on its own reckless solo run with respect to reopening society and it is really eye opening going to another EU country that you see this.

Sorry I'm on your side of the argument all the way but I don't thtink that figure is quite right. I though it was 15 in hospital of which 8 are in ICU.

Thierry12 · 15-08-2020 02:01PM

Micky 32 wrote: »

If all the healthy people have the vaccine that means it’s less likely to spread the virus around. That means eventually the old and vulnerable will be less likely to contract the virus. It would great herd immunity. How is that hard to understand?

I know all that

To save there parent's, the old, sick etc

Still not right that healthy people have to get a vaccine for an illness that won't affect them.

We don't force healthy young people to get a flu vaccine and that kills people

yosemitesam1 · 15-08-2020 02:32PM

Micky 32 wrote: »

If all the healthy people have the vaccine that means it’s less likely to spread the virus around. That means eventually the old and vulnerable will be less likely to contract the virus. It would great herd immunity. How is that hard to understand?

There is no evidence to suggest at this stage that a vaccine won't prevent you from being a carrier with little to no symptoms.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings