Is it just me or have SF vanished?

castletownman · 12-08-2020 11:18AM

Bonniedog wrote: »

How long has he been in SF?

I knew Maurice Roche fairly well and it was the likes of your man who were harassing him and eventually forced him out.

I don't know that. I can't say I associate myself with any of them, only that they happen to drink in the same pub as myself.

They were all celebrating when Mythen got elected TD as if he was automatically going to become taoiseach and were going to benefit as a result. They've gone a bit quieter since....

In mitigation I have had many a discussion about GAA with two of them who happen to have family links to one of their 'martyrs'.

SafeSurfer · 12-08-2020 11:33AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We are in a post conflict phase were people are in denial that the IRA actually had support...hence the faux outrage about Culinane's private exhuberance and celebration. The south went through the same sort of confused hiatus during the 30's and 40's about the equally bloody and terrible period of our gestation to a free and sovereign entity.
By the 50 year anniversary there was a mood swing about it all though leading to a familiar but still perplexing dichotomy that I witnessed yet again this morning with Ryan Tubridy waxing lyrical about the IRA Hunger Strikes of the 1920's.
His like is not ready to wax lyrical about the most recent hunger strikes.
I probably won't be around to hear it, but I guarantee that one day his like will be waxing lyrical about the men and women of this period too.

Denial? Nobody is denying that the IRA had popular support. Sinn Fein won a couple of percent of the first preference vote in the south and around 10% in the north until they surrendered their guns.

The commemorations in 1966 had veterans of the war of independence and civil war on the reviewing stand outside the GPO, many of them serving politicians. None of them were continuing to deny they had ever even been a member of the IRA.

Some people, like your good self may “wax lyrical” about the Warrington bombers, Enniskillen bombers, Kingsmill gunmen etc. For presenters on national radio to trot out this revisionist reimagining of reality is something that you cannot “guarantee”. Interesting that you are so sure of this yet to most other questions on the IRA your refrain is “I don’t know”.

FrancieBrady · 12-08-2020 11:35AM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Denial? Nobody is denying that the IRA had popular support. Sinn Fein won a couple of percent of the first preference vote in the south and around 10% in the north until they surrendered their guns.

The commemorations in 1966 had veterans of the war of independence and civil war on the reviewing stand outside the GPO, many of them serving politicians. None of them were continuing to deny they had ever even been a member of the IRA.

Some people, like your good self may “wax lyrical” about the Warrington bombers, Enniskillen bombers, Kingsmill gunmen etc. For presenters on national radio to trot out this revisionist reimagining of reality is something that you cannot “guarantee”. Interesting that you are so sure of this yet to most other questions on the IRA your refrain is “I don’t know”.

I will never and never have 'waxed lyrical' about an act of violence carried out in the recent conflict/war or the ones carried out in 1916 or in the 1920's.

The state, made up of all the protagonists and players in the bloody birth of our state, LOCKED away the details of what was done SS. They have only recently made them public. Nobody in the general public had any detail of what the men and women on that reviewing stand actually did, the many horrible and bloody acts they carried out, as profoundly lethal as the acts carried out since 1969..

The hypocrisy on show when the likes of Tubridy 'waxes lyrical' or the likes of some on here who will separate out the good republicans...'McGuinness', 'Kenny' 'Stanley' etc etc in order to attack the ones they hate, will continue as it did into 1966.

1966 was the 50th anniversary and was a turning point in how the country looked at it's history. There was a very delicate path to be negotiated and it was a watershed. A 'watershed' that allowed the likes of Tubridy to say what he said this morning.

The Rising of 1916 belongs to nobody if it does not belong to the people of Ireland’, The Kerryman wrote in 1966. ‘Some of them are proud of the Rising, others would disown it if they could, and there are quite a number . . . who are so indifferent that talk about it bores them. Nevertheless the 1916 Rising is theirs.’ The golden jubilee commemoration presented itself as both an obligation and an opportunity. For many the virtue of the Easter Rising was not in doubt. However, events cannot be commemorated without being assigned new meaning, and the anniversary forced clarification of what the Rising represented as a historical event and, more contentiously, of its continued meaning or relevance in 1966.

Bonniedog · 12-08-2020 11:42AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We are in a post conflict phase were people are in denial that the IRA actually had support...hence the faux outrage about Culinane's private exhuberance and celebration. The south went through the same sort of confused hiatus during the 30's and 40's about the equally bloody and terrible period of our gestation to a free and sovereign entity.
By the 50 year anniversary there was a mood swing about it all though leading to a familiar but still perplexing dichotomy that I witnessed yet again this morning with Ryan Tubridy waxing lyrical about the IRA Hunger Strikes of the 1920's.
His like is not ready to wax lyrical about the most recent hunger strikes.
I probably won't be around to hear it, but I guarantee that one day his like will be waxing lyrical about the men and women of this period too.

The 1916 - 21 revolution failed in securing a 32 county Republic, but it did succeed in securing political independence for the 26 counties.

The IRA campaign of 1970 - 1998 achieved none of the IRA's objectives. And at the cost of many lives of people on all sides including the hunger strikers of the 1970s and 1981.

Carpet bagging shinners shouting "Up the Ra" after a few pints is embarrassing to be honest; the "Ra" having abjectly surrendered.

jm08 · 12-08-2020 11:46AM

Edgware wrote: »

Theres a fifty year gap there

Aiken was a TD in Fianna Fail, he was a minister in Government within about 15 years of that massacre. Interesting enough, as minister for defence (I think in 1940), he offered to bring the remnants of the IRA into the Irish Defence Forces, but they turned him down.

So, nothing like 50 years from sectarian killings in 1922 to becoming a Minister in the Irish Government - more like 20 years.

FrancieBrady · 12-08-2020 11:51AM

Bonniedog wrote: »

The 1916 - 21 revolution failed in securing a 32 county Republic, but it did succeed in securing political independence for the 26 counties.

The IRA campaign of 1970 - 1998 achieved none of the IRA's objectives. And at the cost of many lives of people on all sides including the hunger strikers of the 1970s and 1981.

Carpet bagging shinners shouting "Up the Ra" after a few pints is embarrassing to be honest; the "Ra" having abjectly surrendered.

You are free to be embarrassed about whatsoever you want.

i.e. John Bruton blubbering like a baby when one of the royal family deigned to visit us was excruciatingly embarrassing. Leo and Charlie Flanagan's attempt to give a state occasion to the RIC was embarrassing. etc etc.

The only people who need tutoring in democracy are those who would call a democratically elected representative a 'carpet bagger' mind you.

SafeSurfer · 12-08-2020 11:53AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I will never and never have 'waxed lyrical' about an act of violence carried out in the recent conflict/war or the ones carried out in 1916 or in the 1920's.

The state, made up of all the protagonists and players in the bloody birth of our state, LOCKED away the details of what was done SS. They have only recently made them public. Nobody in the general public had any detail of what the men and women on that reviewing stand actually did, the many horrible and bloody acts they carried out, as profoundly lethal as the acts carried out since 1969..

The hypocrisy on show when the likes of Tubridy 'waxes lyrical' or the likes of some on here who will separate out the good republicans...'McGuinness', 'Kenny' 'Stanley' etc etc in order to attack the ones they hate, will continue as it did into 1966.

1966 was the 50th anniversary and was a turning point in how the country looked at it's history. There was a very delicate path to be negotiated and it was a watershed. A 'watershed' that allowed the likes of Tubridy to say what he said this morning.

Sometimes it is obvious that you disavow reading books on Irish history.
There were large scale commemorations, re enactments and celebrations throughout the 30s and 40s. Collins family stood behind De Velera on the podium in 1935. An era you say was a “hiatus” That is patently untrue. Most of the memorials were commissioned at this time.
Why you single out 1966 as a “watershed” is unclear

It is standard practice for state papers and sensitive materials to be released only after x amount of years, not just in Ireland but internationally. That is why new books on the period, which you pride yourself in not reading, with new sources are published on an annual basis.

Hamsterchops · 12-08-2020 11:57AM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Denial? Nobody is denying that the IRA had popular support.

I'm denying that the PIRA had popular support, for they were a minority within a minority. The vast majority of people on this island North & South did not support the Provos or their means.

Bonniedog · 12-08-2020 12:00PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

i.e. John Bruton blubbering like a baby when one of the royal family deigned to visit us was excruciatingly embarrassing..

When it comes to slobbering over the British royals, the Shinners have not been in the ha'penny place.

As is natural given that they run part of Ireland for them

SafeSurfer · 12-08-2020 12:01PM

Hamsterchops wrote: »

I'm denying that the PIRA had popular support, for they were a minority within a minority. The vast majority of people on this island North & South did not support the Provos or their means.

Agreed. I meant support rather than popular support.

FrancieBrady · 12-08-2020 12:20PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Sometimes it is obvious that you disavow reading books on Irish history.
There were large scale commemorations, re enactments and celebrations throughout the 30s and 40s. Collins family stood behind De Velera on the podium in 1935. An era you say was a “hiatus” That is patently untrue. Most of the memorials were commissioned at this time.
Why you single out 1966 as a “watershed” is unclear

It is standard practice for state papers and sensitive materials to be released only after x amount of years, not just in Ireland but internationally. That is why new books on the period, which you pride yourself in not reading, with new sources are published on an annual basis.

Another remarkable lack of knowledge.

I wasn't referencing state papers. I am referencing this:

http://www.militaryarchives.ie/collections/online-collections/bureau-of-military-history-1913-1921/about/guide-to-the-collection/

And I clearly said 1966 marked a watershed moment in how the revolutionary period was viewed...I never said it wasn't celebrated by some during the 40 and 50's. In fact the quote I posted tells you how it was looked at, I'll quote it again:

‘Some of them are proud of the Rising, others would disown it if they could, and there are quite a number . . . who are so indifferent that talk about it bores them.

1966 was a watewrshed in that it began the process of the vast majority becoming proud of the revolutionary period. Resulting in the position today where the vast majority of the media would never dream of denigrating the men and women of the period nor would the ignore them.

That is a very ordinary process really...degrees of separation from the bloody and murderous realities of war.
I am more than convinced it will happen with the most recent period too. The process has started as i said...'good republicans' are being picked out. The hypocrisy being - ignoring that what they did is the same as what the 'bad' republicans did.

SafeSurfer · 12-08-2020 12:31PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Another remarkable lack of knowledge.

I wasn't referencing state papers. I am referencing this:

http://www.militaryarchives.ie/collections/online-collections/bureau-of-military-history-1913-1921/about/guide-to-the-collection/

And I clearly said 1966 marked a watershed moment in how the revolutionary period was viewed...I never said it wasn't celebrated by some during the 40 and 50's. In fact the quote I posted tells you how it was looked at, I'll quote it again:

1966 was a watewrshed in that it began the process of the vast majority becoming proud of the revolutionary period. Resulting in the position today where the vast majority of the media would never dream of denigrating the men and women of the period nor would the ignore them.

That is a very ordinary process really...degrees of separation from the bloody and murderous realities of war.
I am more than convinced it will happen with the most recent period too. The process has started as i said...'good republicans' are being picked out. The hypocrisy being - ignoring that what they did is the same as what the 'bad' republicans did.

You are incorrigible Francie. Not content with reinterpreting the history of the troubles you want to reinterpret what you posted earlier this morning.

“The Bureau of Military History Collection, 1913-1921 (BMH) is a collection of 1,773 witness statements; 334 sets of contemporary documents; 42 sets of photographs and 13 voice recordings that were collected by the State between 1947 and 1957, in order to gather primary source material for the revolutionary period in Ireland from 1913 to 1921”

So the archives collected by the state between 1947 and 1957 should have been made available to the public in the 1930s and 40s? Incredible.

FrancieBrady · 12-08-2020 12:40PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You are incorrigible Francie. Not content with reinterpreting the history of the troubles you want to reinterpret what you posted earlier this morning.

“The Bureau of Military History Collection, 1913-1921 (BMH) is a collection of 1,773 witness statements; 334 sets of contemporary documents; 42 sets of photographs and 13 voice recordings that were collected by the State between 1947 and 1957, in order to gather primary source material for the revolutionary period in Ireland from 1913 to 1921”

So the archives collected by the state between 1947 and 1957 should have been made available to the public in the 1930s and 40s? Incredible.

I'm incorrigible? This is a blatant attempt to deflect away from the discussion.

Here is what I said;

franciebrady wrote:

The state, made up of all the protagonists and players in the bloody birth of our state, LOCKED away the details of what was done SS.

...I didn't say anything about archive not being available in the 30's and 40's.

Again and again, when you cannot answer you go for trying to depict me as a disingenuous poster.

I have made a point, backed it with quotes, links and you do this?...pathetic, if not a despicable way to engage.

SafeSurfer · 12-08-2020 12:52PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I'm incorrigible? This is a blatant attempt to deflect away from the discussion.

Here is what I said;

...I didn't say anything about archive not being available in the 30's and 40's.

Again and again, when you cannot answer you go for trying to depict me as a disingenuous poster.

I have made a point, backed it with quotes, links and you do this?...pathetic, if not a despicable way to engage.

You are talking about the records of the war being “locked away” by the southern government as if by conspiracy.

Did you ever consider that these papers were released after the last of the contributors died? Is the 100 year rule on census publication a conspiracy too?

How can an archive of the recent troubles be compiled when protagonists such as Adams lie as naseum about their role?
When archives are compiled, such as the Boston Tapes and they reveal Adams role in the IRA you dismiss them as unreliable. You are disingenuous. Not only are you a la carte when it comes to sources you only pick the pieces of each course that suit your narrative.

Edgware · 12-08-2020 01:03PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You are incorrigible Francie. Not content with reinterpreting the history of the troubles you want to reinterpret what you posted earlier this morning.

“The Bureau of Military History Collection, 1913-1921 (BMH) is a collection of 1,773 witness statements; 334 sets of contemporary documents; 42 sets of photographs and 13 voice recordings that were collected by the State between 1947 and 1957, in order to gather primary source material for the revolutionary period in Ireland from 1913 to 1921”

So the archives collected by the state between 1947 and 1957 should have been made available to the public in the 1930s and 40s? Incredible.

You do know that Francie has a time machine stored in the mothership which enables him to drift back and forth though history

FrancieBrady · 12-08-2020 01:06PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You are talking about the records of the war being “locked away” by the southern government as if by conspiracy.

It wasn't a consiracy...it was an open and transparent decision by the government of the day.

Did you ever consider that these papers were released after the last of the contributors died? Is the 100 year rule on census publication a conspiracy too?

You don't need to inform me about these archives I was aware of them.

How can an archive of the recent troubles be compiled when protagonists such as Adams lie as naseum about their role?

The contributors to the MBA were not interrogated about what they did, they took part in a voluntary process of truth collection
Adams, SF and the IRA are in favour of that...guess who isn't?

When archives are compiled, such as the Boston Tapes and they reveal Adams role in the IRA you dismiss them as unreliable. You are disingenuous. Not only are you a la carte when it comes to sources you only pick the pieces of each course that suit your narrative.

I didn't 'dismiss the Boston Tapes' they quite spectacularly dismissed themselves.
https://www.irishcentral.com/opinion/niallodowd/60-minutes-exposes-shameful-boston-college-ira-tapes-project

I keep saying to you people...I don't know nor care (as I don't see what difference it would have made) if Adams was in the IRA or not.ANd clearly, looking at the growth of SF, my point about attitudes changing to the conflict war, neither do an awful lot of the public...a growing amount of the public. That is, as I said again, what happens.

SafeSurfer · 12-08-2020 01:11PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It wasn't a consiracy...it was an open and transparent decision by the government of the day.

You don't need to inform me about these archives I was aware of them.

The contributors to the MBA were not interrogated about what they did, they took part in a voluntary process of truth collection
Adams, SF and the IRA are in favour of that...guess who isn't?

I didn't 'dismiss the Boston Tapes' they quite spectacularly dismissed themselves.
https://www.irishcentral.com/opinion/niallodowd/60-minutes-exposes-shameful-boston-college-ira-tapes-project

I keep saying to you people...I don't know nor care (as I don't see what difference it would have made) if Adams was in the IRA or not.ANd clearly, looking at the growth of SF, my point about attitudes changing to the conflict war, neither do an awful lot of the public...a growing amount of the public. That is, as I said again, what happens.

The lady doth protest too much methinks.

jm08 · 12-08-2020 04:05PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

The lady doth protest too much methinks.

In fairness, Niall O'Dowd who wrote that article in Irish Central isn't holding back in his criticism of them. And what adds more weight to what he says is that he is the brother of a Fine Gael TD, so not a closet Shinner.

SS - what age are you - are you old enough to remember the 1966 commemorations?

RandomViewer · 12-08-2020 05:07PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You are free to be embarrassed about whatsoever you want.

i.e. John Bruton blubbering like a baby when one of the royal family deigned to visit us was excruciatingly embarrassing. Leo and Charlie Flanagan's attempt to give a state occasion to the RIC was embarrassing. etc etc.

The only people who need tutoring in democracy are those who would call a democratically elected representative a 'carpet bagger' mind you.

John Bruton is an embarrassment in every way, on praising John Hume last week on RTE and back when Hume needed his support he did his best to destroy what Hume created, Disrupted the peace process for a few Orange votes

RandomViewer · 12-08-2020 05:13PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Scappatticci is still alive. Donaldson survived decades until the IRA killed him.
Faul is hardly a “random priest”. One of your points is that it is somehow unbelievable that he sent some members of his community to their deaths. Are you that much in denial that you won’t admit the republican movement, of which Adams was head, sent members of his own community to their death?

You Frequently refer to the collusion of British security forces in the war against the IRA yet not only was Adams not killed as a result of this collusion, British security forces saved his life by swapping the UDA’ hit squads ammunition with low velocity rounds and subsequently saved his life after a murder attempt.
Hardly the actions of a force desperately wanting rid of Adams. They actively protected him.

IRA didn't kill Donaldson, Paisley had crime scene photos before anyone else including the Gardai,

SafeSurfer · 12-08-2020 05:20PM

RandomViewer wrote: »

IRA didn't kill Donaldson, Paisley had crime scene photos before anyone else including the Gardai,

Of course not. Must have been the Mexicans again, flush with their Northern Bank raid money.

The Real IRA claimed responsibility for the murder.

Bonniedog · 12-08-2020 05:30PM

jm08 wrote: »

In fairness, Niall O'Dowd who wrote that article in Irish Central isn't holding back in his criticism of them. And what adds more weight to what he says is that he is the brother of a Fine Gael TD, so not a closet Shinner.

SS - what age are you - are you old enough to remember the 1966 commemorations?

You are obviously not familiar with his work!

Has been Adams groupie for 30 years.

RandomViewer · 12-08-2020 05:39PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Of course not. Must have been the Mexicans again, flush with their Northern Bank raid money.

The Real IRA claimed responsibility for the murder.

Donaldson was wandering around Ardara for months before he died, Sunday World makes a big deal about where he is and 2 days later he's dead, SW photographer was former RUC, Gardai have prevented an inquest for years

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-48858481

SafeSurfer · 12-08-2020 05:58PM

RandomViewer wrote: »

Donaldson was wandering around Ardara for months before he died, Sunday World makes a big deal about where he is and 2 days later he's dead, SW photographer was former RUC, Gardai have prevented an inquest for years

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-48858481

“Before he died”! He didn’t die, he was murdered.

Gardaí are conducting a criminal investigation in which the chief suspect is still in custody abroad. Not “preventing” an inquest for the craic.

So your theory is that the Sunday World photographer did it, is that it?

Bonniedog · 12-08-2020 06:12PM

Provies didn't kill Donaldson. They just wanted him to go away same as all the other Belfast touts that have been unveiled.

If Brits thought they had done it, they would just out another of Gerry's chums.

FrancieBrady · 12-08-2020 07:11PM

Too many spy film watchers about.
A few guys decided to get rich and turned traitor...happens in every army in the world.

Like the incidence of sexual abuse in republican circles (no higher or lower than anywhere else) was blown out of all proportion, cheerfully by our partitionists and unionists, I suspect so too is the incidence of infiltration and betrayal.
Fits in nicely to the narrative so the watchwords should be - treat with caution.

jm08 · 12-08-2020 08:24PM

Bonniedog wrote: »

You are obviously not familiar with his work!

Has been Adams groupie for 30 years.

More John Hume I think. Very influential in Irish America. It was he who Clinton consulted initially.

SafeSurfer · 12-08-2020 08:38PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Too many spy film watchers about.
A few guys decided to get rich and turned traitor...happens in every army in the world.

Like the incidence of sexual abuse in republican circles (no higher or lower than anywhere else) was blown out of all proportion, cheerfully by our partitionists and unionists, I suspect so too is the incidence of infiltration and betrayal.
Fits in nicely to the narrative so the watchwords should be - treat with caution.

What is the average level of sexual abuse in organisations?
I ask because you must know. You claim the level of sexual abuse in republican circles is “no higher or lower than anywhere else”. So it must be at the international average.
However you do not know what the average level of sexual abuse is not do you know if the level of abuse was higher or lower in republican circles.
Yet another example of your selective certainty.

Was Gerry Adams in the IRA?
Francie: I don’t know.

What was the level of sexual abuse in republican circles and how does it compare to other organisations?
Francie: Oh it was about average.

In my opinion all paramilitary groups during the Troubles, both loyalist and nationalist, attracted the type of people who would have become involved in criminal activity anyway. The troubles and their various groups, be that the IRA, UVF, INLA or UDA just served as a means to gain status, money and power. Some members, no doubt were motivated by politics and ideology but for many,, especially in disadvantaged areas during the 70s and 80s, the paramilitaries were the only game in town.

It should be no surprise that many of these turned informer either to save their own necks or to expose rivals or for purely financial gain.
Equally, the troubles were not normal times. Some people were untouchable in their communities and they used their power and the fear they instilled to rape and molest. Safe in the knowledge that there would be no complaint made against them. This is as true of the nationalist paramilitaries as it is of the loyalist ones.

Of course many seek to play down both the number of informers and the level of sexual abuse in these organisations.

Was it really no higher or lower than anywhere else?

Unlike Francie, I don’t know.

FrancieBrady · 12-08-2020 09:11PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

What is the average level of sexual abuse in organisations?
I ask because you must know. You claim the level of sexual abuse in republican circles is “no higher or lower than anywhere else”. So it must be at the international average.
However you do not know what the average level of sexual abuse is not do you know if the level of abuse was higher or lower in republican circles.
Yet another example of your selective certainty.

Was Gerry Adams in the IRA?
Francie: I don’t know.

What was the level of sexual abuse in republican circles and how does it compare to other organisations?
Francie: Oh it was about average.

On the basis that most organisations have had issues pre-awareness days with abuse and predation.
I am not aware that the incidence is any higher in the IRA than it is in like size organisations or demographic groups.
It's an opinion, I have no data to back it up, if you can enlighten us with data (not breathless 'I know of 40 cases'Regina Doherty allegations/what turned out to be fantasy/lies) work away on that one.

In my opinion all paramilitary groups during the Troubles, both loyalist and nationalist, attracted the type of people who would have become involved in criminal activity anyway. The troubles and their various groups, be that the IRA, UVF, INLA or UDA just served as a means to gain status, money and power. Some members, no doubt were motivated by politics and ideology but for many,, especially in disadvantaged areas during the 70s and 80s, the paramilitaries were the only game in town.

It should be no surprise that many of these turned informer either to save their own necks or to expose rivals or for purely financial gain.
Equally, the troubles were not normal times. Some people were untouchable in their communities and they used their power and the fear they instilled to rape and molest. Safe in the knowledge that there would be no complaint made against them. This is as true of the nationalist paramilitaries as it is of the loyalist ones.

Of course many seek to play down both the number of informers and the level of sexual abuse in these organisations.

Was it really no higher or lower than anywhere else?

Unlike Francie, I don’t know.

Most armies if not all, require a thug element to engage in what they do...that is the reality the world over. They don't have special army police for nothing.
The IRA was no different, I fully agree that thugs attached themselves.

Good to see you agreeing that there is no way of knowing how much infiltration happened.

I live in a border town well known as a republican stronghold, had several bombs during the troubles and notable participants living in it...I would know most people in it and around the area and I can genuinely say that all through the troubles I was never aware of one of these 'overlord' figures, controlling it. I think this is another myth blown out of proportion.

Superfoods · 12-08-2020 09:21PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

On the basis that most organisations have had issues pre-awareness days with abuse and predation.
I am not aware that the incidence is any higher in the IRA than it is in like size organisations or demographic groups.
It's an opinion, I have no data to back it up, if you can enlighten us with data (not breathless 'I know of 40 cases'Regina Doherty allegations/what turned out to be fantasy/lies) work away on that one.

Most armies if not all, require a thug element to engage in what they do...that is the reality the world over. They don't have special army police for nothing.
The IRA was no different, I fully agree that thugs attached themselves.

Good to see you agreeing that there is no way of knowing how much infiltration happened.

I live in a border town well known as a republican stronghold, had several bombs during the troubles and notable participants living in it...I would know most people in it and around the area and I can genuinely say that all through the troubles I was never aware of one of these 'overlord' figures, controlling it. I think this is another myth blown out of proportion.

Why are you making stuff up?

Is it just me or have SF vanished?

Comments