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Covid 19 Part XXI-27,908 in ROI (1,777 deaths) 6,647 in NI (559 deaths)(22/08)Read OP

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Comments

  • #602
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,209 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    Standardised masks is what I referenced.

    I don't know what the masks are in Lidl as I just walk by them now but I know euro giant were selling kn95 masks over a month ago. If pound shops are selling them then there is no issue getting them. Masks are widely available.


  • #603
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,001 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Micky 32 wrote: »
    Lol so calling me a liar?

    I’m sorry that my happy ending facts don’t fit into that doom and gloom bubble of yours.

    Where did I call you a liar?
    You mention an anecdote , I mentioned a documentary .
    Then you start name calling .


  • #604
    spookwoman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,059 ✭✭✭✭spookwoman


    WoollyRedHat wrote: »
    Yes, I understand the mechanisms , but the reality is, if a migrant worker lives in fear of their income and a possibility they will lose their livelihood, due to sickness, because of poor company practices, they will act in a selfish way to protect said livelihood, regardless of implications of public health and this is something as a society we have to address in exceptional circumstances.

    We don't know what the background of the workforce is in these place and
    it's not just migrants that work in these factories . There are some cases of migrant exploitation but not all and back in March Migrant Rights Ireland and unions were getting calls so they knew where to go if there was an issue. They were complaining that it's their living conditions that made it impossible to social distance but there are plenty of others people in different scenarios living together and in the same conditions but we don't hear about outbreaks associated with them.

    You can't blame everything on the factories, people need to take responsibility for their own actions specially if they knowingly go into work sick, don't notify anyone and do the same where they are staying.


  • #605
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    So glad she did, Plumb.
    Tell us why do you presume that is not of interest to me ?
    Should I likewise make the assumption you have no interest in watching anything that shows some of the worse effects of the virus?

    No offense but what do you think garners the most media attention? The worst outcome or the common outcome. We have had over 26,000 confirmed cases in Ireland, what's the death toll , less than 1800. Most of which were from the inept handling by the authorities here. Don't forget they got advance warning from Italy who were the most vulnerable.


  • #606
    Micky 32
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,627 ✭✭✭Micky 32


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    Where did I call you a liar?
    You mention an anecdote , I mentioned a documentary .
    Then you start name calling .

    Anecdote= unreliable, hearsay just a story. In otherwords you choose not to believe me over a documentary.

    Whether you like it or not they made a full recovery.


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  • #607
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,001 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    AlmightyCushion wrote: »
    I don't know what the masks are in Lidl as I just walk by them now but I know euro giant were selling kn95 masks over a month ago. If pound shops are selling them then there is no issue getting them. Masks are widely available.

    If they are good masks that's great . A lot I have seen apart from disposable are ****e quality and if not, are too expensive for most families on a budget .
    My point was not that they are not available widely to buy but it is going to get damned expensive at this rate for a lot of people buying any decent standard of mask to wear every day .
    I washed reusable masks from Lidl at the correct temperature twice and they were falling apart.
    Voucher systems to HELP pay for items which are mandatory are not an extravagance when it is in everyone's interest that the masks being worn are of a good standard.


  • #608
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,209 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    Strumms wrote: »
    Where did I suggest it could have been opened in a few days or indeed weeks, can you quote that please ? The first diagnosis of covid happened approximately 165 days ago in this country... masks are easy to make.

    The government have a number of industrial units which they own or lease.. they or one could have a pretty swift redeployment of purpose, get fitted out and equipped. One on the north side is used for the storage of prison uniforms for both prisoners and prison guards, it’s three quarters empty, a big space, very near the airport and motorways, so the movement and distribution is no issue. Just needed to be equipped and bobs your uncle.... manufacturing and distributing.

    Other ppe ? Sure, it’s a big space, CPPE could be manufacturing.

    If it took longer than a few weeks to get this up and running, it would have been useless to us as our PPE shortage didn't last very long. By the time this site is yours would be up and running, we would have been able to source PPE from else where cheaper.

    Also, you are underestimating how long it takes to set up a productive facility and what is involved. How long would it take to get the equipment and machines needed to make the masks? How long would it take to get the machines and equipment to safely package the masks? Existing PPE manufacturing companies were ramping up supply and buying up the materials needed. How would we get it?

    The planning of all this works have lasted longer than our PPE shortage.

    If we had decided to do this, it would have been a waste of time and money and the government would be ridiculed for it. It has much easier, quicker and cheaper to just buy the PPE off a company that already makes it.


  • #609
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,001 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Micky 32 wrote: »
    Anecdote= unreliable, hearsay just a story. In otherwords you choose not to believe me over a documentary.

    Whether you like it or not they made a full recovery.

    In other words...you are putting words in my mouth , and I think are just looking for a fight .
    I am not getting dragged into bs like this with you .


  • #610
    Micky 32
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,627 ✭✭✭Micky 32


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    In other words...you are putting words in my mouth , and I think are just looking for a fight .
    I am not getting dragged into bs like this with you .

    Lol, rubbish.


  • #611
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,001 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    spookwoman wrote: »
    We don't know what the background of the workforce is in these place and
    it's not just migrants that work in these factories . There are some cases of migrant exploitation but not all and back in March Migrant Rights Ireland and unions were getting calls so they knew where to go if there was an issue. They were complaining that it's their living conditions that made it impossible to social distance but there are plenty of others people in different scenarios living together and in the same conditions but we don't hear about outbreaks associated with them.

    You can't blame everything on the factories, people need to take responsibility for their own actions specially if they knowingly go into work sick, don't notify anyone and do the same where they are staying.

    Initially back in March nurses living in house shares were resulting in clusters popping up that's why they were offered alternative accomodation .
    If these workers are working in essential areas , there accomodation should be looked at , migrant or not .


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  • #612
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,001 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Micky 32 wrote: »
    Lol, rubbish.

    Yes


  • #613
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,001 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    AlmightyCushion wrote: »
    If it took longer than a few weeks to get this up and running, it would have been useless to us as our PPE shortage didn't last very long. By the time this site is yours would be up and running, we would have been able to source PPE from else where cheaper.

    Also, you are underestimating how long it takes to set up a productive facility and what is involved. How long would it take to get the equipment and machines needed to make the masks? How long would it take to get the machines and equipment to safely package the masks? Existing PPE manufacturing companies were ramping up supply and buying up the materials needed. How would we get it?

    The planning of all this works have lasted longer than our PPE shortage.

    If we had decided to do this, it would have been a waste of time and money and the government would be ridiculed for it. It has much easier, quicker and cheaper to just buy the PPE off a company that already makes it.

    As Strumms and I have pointed out , twice now , the companies are already up and running .


  • #614
    spookwoman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,059 ✭✭✭✭spookwoman


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    Initially back in March nurses living in house shares were resulting in clusters popping up that's why they were offered alternative accomodation .
    If these workers are working in essential areas , there accommodation should be looked at , migrant or not .

    I can understand health workers because they are working with sick people and need to stay healthy themselves but to start picking some groups and not others would be discrimination and saying some lives are more important than others.


  • #615
    Strumms
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,827 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    AlmightyCushion wrote: »
    If it took longer than a few weeks to get this up and running, it would have been useless to us as our PPE shortage didn't last very long. By the time this site is yours would be up and running, we would have been able to source PPE from else where cheaper.

    Also, you are underestimating how long it takes to set up a productive facility and what is involved. How long would it take to get the equipment and machines needed to make the masks? How long would it take to get the machines and equipment to safely package the masks? Existing PPE manufacturing companies were ramping up supply and buying up the materials needed. How would we get it?

    The planning of all this works have lasted longer than our PPE shortage.

    If we had decided to do this, it would have been a waste of time and money and the government would be ridiculed for it. It has much easier, quicker and cheaper to just buy the PPE off a company that already makes it.

    Going by the probability that covid is here for a while, time wasn’t of the absolute essence... what I’d view as essential would be a state manufacturer to 100% ensure PPE from masks to hospital ppe is available and order-able from when it CAN be set up until there is a vaccine administered.


  • #616
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,001 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    No offense but what do you think garners the most media attention? The worst outcome or the common outcome. We have had over 26,000 confirmed cases in Ireland, what's the death toll , less than 1800. Most of which were from the inept handling by the authorities here. Don't forget they got advance warning from Italy who were the most vulnerable.

    I agree .
    Still an interesting program , which is all I said 🙂
    Did you have a good trip ?


  • #617
    WoollyRedHat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    Micky 32 wrote: »
    Just like my cousin ( type 1 diabetes) and her husband made fulll recovery. 78 year old woman and 85 year old man i know with underlying conditions made full recovery, but as you said won’t warrant any interest on here for sure. Not dramatic enough.

    Micky, as happy a I am to hear that your relatives made a full recovery, what about others who haven't made as well as a recovery , are they irrelevant to conversation, does your relatives recovery' change the fact that others haven't made a full recovery? It's not a competition.

    Do you not accept the possibility that some people are still recovering?


  • #618
    Micky 32
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,627 ✭✭✭Micky 32


    WoollyRedHat wrote: »

    Do you not accept the possibility that some people are still recovering?


    Yes i do, just like with any other illnesses and diseases. Btw i know 12 people in total that have recovered. Too much scaremongering, we only hear of the bad cases.

    There’s certain posters on here don’t want to hear about the fully recovered.


  • #619
    Strumms
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,827 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    WoollyRedHat wrote: »
    Micky, as happy a I am to hear that your relatives made a full recovery, what about others who haven't made as well as a recovery , are they irrelevant to conversation, does your relatives recovery' change the fact that others haven't made a full recovery? It's not a competition.

    Do you not accept the possibility that some people are still recovering?

    Some people recovered, recovering...dying and died but listening to the reality doesn't sit well with some agendas.


  • #620
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,001 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    spookwoman wrote: »
    I can understand health workers because they are working with sick people and need to stay healthy themselves but to start picking some groups and not others would be discrimination and saying some lives are more important than others.

    So are not the lives of those people important?
    The larger the clusters the higher the viral load , more risk of serious illness , and greater risk of community transmission.
    Hence why whole counties shut down and not just the meat plants .


  • #621
    Micky 32
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,627 ✭✭✭Micky 32


    Strumms wrote: »
    Some people recovered, recovering...dying and died but listening to the reality doesn't sit well with some agendas.

    If you’re reffering to me you’re talking shyte. I posted about people i know who fully recovered that i was happy about, so is that not allowed on here not fit some agendas on here?


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  • #622
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,001 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Micky 32 wrote: »
    Yes i do, just like with any other illnesses and diseases. Btw i know 12 people in total that have recovered. Too much scaremongering, we only hear of the bad cases.

    There’s certain posters on here don’t want to hear about the fully recovered.

    I know at least 12 who have died before their time .
    But again these are anecdotes...not lies as you say ..anecdotes , unverifiable.
    Unlike documentaries .


  • #623
    WoollyRedHat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    spookwoman wrote: »
    We don't know what the background of the workforce is in these place and
    it's not just migrants that work in these factories . There are some cases of migrant exploitation but not all and back in March Migrant Rights Ireland and unions were getting calls so they knew where to go if there was an issue. They were complaining that it's their living conditions that made it impossible to social distance but there are plenty of others people in different scenarios living together and in the same conditions but we don't hear about outbreaks associated with them.

    You can't blame everything on the factories, people need to take responsibility for their own actions specially if they knowingly go into work sick, don't notify anyone and do the same where they are staying.


    I agree absolutely that people need to take responsibility for their actions but.. if we have clusters in factories that are caused by environment they exist in, including living circumstances, do you not admit it is easier to tackle that as a spotlight effect so it doesn't cause additional contagion across the wider community?


  • #624
    Micky 32
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,627 ✭✭✭Micky 32


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    I know at least 12 who have died before their time .
    But again these are anecdotes...not lies as you say ..anecdotes , unverifiable.
    Unlike documentaries .

    So what, like i said i know 12 people who recovered from covid 19. I don’t care if you think it’s anecdotal or not, it’s a fact.


  • #625
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,001 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Micky 32 wrote: »
    Yes i do, just like with any other illnesses and diseases. Btw i know 12 people in total that have recovered. Too much scaremongering, we only hear of the bad cases.

    There’s certain posters on here don’t want to hear about the fully recovered.

    Who would they be now ?

    I could say that there are some posters on here who don't want to hear that people with Covid can survive with nasty complications .

    Both statements are allowed , but accusing people of calling you a liar when they are not , and name calling , is not allowed .


  • #626
    Micky 32
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,627 ✭✭✭Micky 32


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    Who would they be now ?

    I could say that there are some posters on here who don't want to hear that people with Covid can survive with nasty complications .

    Both statements are allowed , but accusing people of calling you a liar when they are not , and name calling , is not allowed .

    Oh dear..... i never said that both statements not allowed. You certainly didn’t like or want to believe my “statement” about the recoveries. I can guarantee if their outcomes were the opposite you certainly wouldn’t have called it “ anecdotal “

    Btw what name calling??


  • #627
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,209 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    Strumms wrote: »
    Going by the probability that covid is here for a while, time wasn’t of the absolute essence... what I’d view as essential would be a state manufacturer to 100% ensure PPE from masks to hospital ppe is available and order-able from when it CAN be set up until there is a vaccine administered.

    What about other medical equipment? Should the state have set up a company for making ventilators back in march? They were in shortage back then, were seen as essential and there was a huge scramble for them by every country in the world at the time. Haven't heard much about them in a while, good thing the state didn't build a ventilator factory.

    What about some generic drugs? They're essential. What about swabs for testing? They're absolutely essentials. Why don't we make a factory for them too?

    What about other essentials? Toilet paper and pasta supplies were pretty short for a while there. Should the state set up toilet paper and food production companies as well?


  • #628
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,001 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Strumms wrote: »
    Going by the probability that covid is here for a while, time wasn’t of the absolute essence... what I’d view as essential would be a state manufacturer to 100% ensure PPE from masks to hospital ppe is available and order-able from when it CAN be set up until there is a vaccine administered.

    Totally agree .
    I would like my children to be able to wear decent PPE like I have at work, that isn't just window dressing, if it is deemed required by those in authority.
    And while I can afford to buy PpE the quality is so goddamn bad , I think it's time a company in Ireland should be making proper standardised masks that work for every Joe Soap in the country, subsidised if necessary .


  • #629
    WoollyRedHat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    Micky 32 wrote: »
    So what, like i said i know 12 people who recovered from covid 19. I don’t care if you think it’s anecdotal or not, it’s a fact.

    My question is, does that negate the ones that didn't?
    It shouldn't. I don't get why we're getting into a pissing contest of who fared well and. who didn', it doesn't matter, it's variable, the main point is there's variable outcomes and no poster should willingly discount them, some did.well, some didn't, there's too much of a dogmatic ideology overriding civic discourse.


  • #630
    spookwoman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,059 ✭✭✭✭spookwoman


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    So are not the lives of those people important?
    The larger the clusters the higher the viral load , more risk of serious illness , and greater risk of community transmission.
    Hence why whole counties shut down and not just the meat plants .

    Ref healthcare workers, I know I don't have the years of medical school or nursing school to just jump into their jobs if they get sick, do you or the whole of the adult population of ireland?
    There is no proof that viral load is higher in clusters or risk of causing serious illness. Some studies have found high viral load in a symptomatic people.
    I don't know why they did not shut down the factories and to be honest you can't provide 100% proof of why they didn't. As for are their lives important, yes they are just like everyone else's.


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  • #631
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,001 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Micky 32 wrote: »
    So what, like i said i know 12 people who recovered from covid 19. I don’t care if you think it’s anecdotal or not, it’s a fact.

    Point is you just did not state that you made a jibe that referred to me saying I would not like that , and name called
    That is utter bs , and is very childish way to discuss a point .


This discussion has been closed.
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