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Masks

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Comments

  • #7832
    MEGA BRO WOLF 5000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,784 ✭✭✭✭MEGA BRO WOLF 5000


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    growleaves wrote: »
    As with the posts by a few on the megathread who praised the authorities for withholding information about infections in supermarkets, we are supposed to accept that the authorities can tell lies whenever they want if they think they have good reasons for doing so, and simultaneously trust them and believe what they say and that they wouldn't lie. Does anyone see the contradiction here?

    Here’s the WHO’s take on masks a few months ago. And I’m supposed to take them seriously now.


    https://youtu.be/Ded_AxFfJoQ


  • #7833
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,023 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Hunky Monster wrote: »
    Here’s the WHO’s take on masks a few months ago. And I’m supposed to take them seriously now.


    https://youtu.be/Ded_AxFfJoQ

    On July 12, Deborah Cohen, the medical correspondent of BBC2’s Newsnight, revealed on Twitter that: ‘We had been told by various sources [that the] WHO committee reviewing the evidence had not backed masks but they recommended them due to political lobbying.’ She said the BBC had then put this to the WHO, which did not deny it.


  • #7834
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    robinph wrote: »
    What is your alternative way to slow the spread down if these people are clearly entering the country anyway, people are going back to work, people are going back to shops and people are interacting with each other more than they were for several months.

    The common alternative approach appears to be stomp feet while proclaiming huffily "I'm not wearing a mask because look what they're doing....".


  • #7835
    MEGA BRO WOLF 5000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,784 ✭✭✭✭MEGA BRO WOLF 5000


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    Graham wrote: »
    The common alternative approach appears to be stomp feet while proclaiming huffily "I'm not wearing a mask because look what they're doing....".

    *stomps feet*

    Listen If you want to wear a mask, fire away. I really don’t care if you do or don’t.


  • #7836
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Hunky Monster wrote: »
    How many people have been fined/gone to jail.

    None yet.

    I'd guess our non-mask heroes cover up and slink off before it gets to the stage where further action is required.


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  • #7837
    MEGA BRO WOLF 5000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,784 ✭✭✭✭MEGA BRO WOLF 5000


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    Graham wrote: »
    None yet.

    I'd guess our non-mask heroes cover up and slink off before it gets to the stage where further action is required.

    Good. I love a bit of slinking off. Fair play to you though, thinking you’re saving the world.


  • #7838
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Not at all but I've no problem playing a tiny part in the fight against covid by wearing a mask.


  • #7839
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    No: I don't care enough
    Hunky Monster wrote: »
    Good. I love a bit of slinking off. Fair play to you though, thinking you’re saving the world.

    What are you doing to help slow the spread of the virus?

    Is there potentially anything more you could be doing, such as wearing a mask in enclosed spaces maybe?


  • #7840
    gibgodsman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 577 ✭✭✭gibgodsman


    I don't mind wearing a mask, but what I do mind is when I am literally buying food to eat in the place and not wearing a mask, because guess what, you cannot eat with a mask, and being given daggers and told to wear a mask.

    Another one that annoys me, is people with those plastic face shields, which are proven to have no positive effect what so ever as they do not prevent any air from getting out or going in, giving out to anyone who doesn't wear a mask

    And lastly, going to the likes of Tesco to do my shopping where about 60% of the staff are wearing absolutely nothing on the face but implement a "Must wear mask Policy"


  • #7841
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,023 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Graham wrote: »
    Not at all but I've no problem playing a tiny part in the fight against covid by wearing a mask.

    But do you have a problem if someone casually tells you that the theory of masks is an unvalidated scientific hypothesis? There's no reason, in theory, for anyone to get emotional when they're told that something they've accepted and agreed to believe in is strictly speaking not proven. Yet it happens all the time.


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  • #7842
    joeguevara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,255 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    growleaves wrote: »
    But do you have a problem if someone casually tells you that the theory of masks is an unvalidated scientific hypothesis? There's no reason, in theory, for anyone to get emotional when they're told that something they've accepted and agreed to believe in is strictly speaking not proven. Yet it happens all the time.

    Prove its unproven.


  • #7843
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    growleaves wrote: »
    But do you have a problem if someone casually tells you that the theory of masks is an unvalidated scientific hypothesis?

    I have absolutely no problem with someone casually telling me most things :)


  • #7844
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,023 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Prove its unproven.

    Is that supposed to be a joke?


  • #7845
    joeguevara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,255 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    growleaves wrote: »
    Is that supposed to be a joke?

    No, because there is proof that masks reduce trnasmission of the virus. So if someone goes around spouting sh1te saying that its unproven, they must be able to back that up. Its not rocket science. If someone is going to say bs they need to be called out on it.


  • #7846
    MEGA BRO WOLF 5000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,784 ✭✭✭✭MEGA BRO WOLF 5000


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    joeguevara wrote: »
    No, because there is proof that masks reduce trnasmission of the virus. So if someone goes around spouting sh1te saying that its unproven, they must be able to back that up. Its not rocket science. If someone is going to say bs they need to be called out on it.

    There must have been some serious studies done in the last 3 months since the CDC, WHO and all governments told us they were of absolutely no use whatsoever.


  • #7847
    dwayneshintzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭dwayneshintzy


    Yes: to protect myself and others
    When did the WHO, or anyone else, say that they are "of absolutely no use whatsoever"???

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2#MOESM2
    We also demonstrated the efficacy of surgical masks to reduce coronavirus detection and viral copies in large respiratory droplets and in aerosols (Table 1b). This has important implications for control of COVID-19, suggesting that surgical face masks could be used by ill people to reduce onward transmission.

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31142-9/fulltext
    The use of face masks was protective for both health-care workers and people in the community exposed to infection, with both the frequentist and Bayesian analyses lending support to face mask use irrespective of setting. Our unadjusted analyses might, at first impression, suggest use of face masks in the community setting to be less effective than in the health-care setting, but after accounting for differential N95 respirator use between health-care and non-health-care settings, we did not detect any striking differences in effectiveness of face mask use between settings.

    https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/full/10.1377/hlthaff.2020.00818
    The study provides direct evidence on the effectiveness of widespread community use of face masks from a natural experiment that evaluated the effects of state government mandates in the US for face mask use in public on COVID-19 spread. Fifteen states plus Washington, D.C., mandated face mask use between April 8 and May 15. Using an event study that examined daily changes in county-level COVID-19 growth rates, the study found that mandating public use of face masks was associated with a reduction in the COVID-19 daily growth rate. Specifically, we found that the average daily county-level growth rate decreases by 0.9, 1.1, 1.4, 1.7, and 2.0 percentage points in 1–5, 6–10, 11–15, 16–20, and 21 or more days after signing, respectively.


  • #7848
    joeguevara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,255 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    Hunky Monster wrote: »
    There must have been some serious studies done in the last 3 months since the CDC, WHO and all governments told us they were of absolutely no use whatsoever.

    For a virus that is less than 8 months. You come across like a kid who says they are going to tell their teacher to fcuck off but we all know that the minute you are challenged you are going to skulk away.


  • #7849
    Snow Garden
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Snow Garden


    No: other
    Hunky Monster wrote: »
    How many people have died from catching the virus in centra?

    Whats your threshold number?


  • #7850
    MEGA BRO WOLF 5000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,784 ✭✭✭✭MEGA BRO WOLF 5000


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    joeguevara wrote: »
    For a virus that is less than 8 months. You come across like a kid who says they are going to tell their teacher to fcuck off but we all know that the minute you are challenged you are going to skulk away.

    I haven’t worn a mask yet and will continue that way.


  • #7851
    MEGA BRO WOLF 5000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,784 ✭✭✭✭MEGA BRO WOLF 5000


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    Snow Garden wrote: »
    Whats your threshold number?

    17.


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  • #7852
    namloc1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,498 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Yes: surgical
    Michael Healy-Rae said he won't be enforcing face masks in the shop/petrol station he owns in Kerry as he says it is not the role of retail outlet owners to enforce the law. I wonder does he enforce the law on the sale of alcohol and tobacco products??


  • #7853
    dwayneshintzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭dwayneshintzy


    Yes: to protect myself and others
    Hunky Monster wrote: »
    I haven’t worn a mask yet and will continue that way.
    You've claimed that there are no studies that backup the efficacy of masks. What's wrong with the studies I linked?


  • #7854
    joeguevara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,255 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    Michael Healy-Rae said he won't be enforcing face masks in the shop/petrol station he owns in Kerry as he says it is not the role of retail outlet owners to enforce the law. I wonder does he enforce the law on the sale of alcohol and tobacco products??

    I do think legislation puts a fine on the owner for serving underage people tobacco and alcohol. It would be so much easier if there was something similar with masks and then they have an obligation.


  • #7855
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,023 ✭✭✭growleaves


    joeguevara wrote: »
    No, because there is proof that masks reduce trnasmission of the virus. So if someone goes around spouting sh1te saying that its unproven, they must be able to back that up. Its not rocket science. If someone is going to say bs they need to be called out on it.

    Okay here is the absence of proof you asked for:


  • #7856
    joeguevara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,255 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    growleaves wrote: »
    Okay here is the absence of proof you asked for:

    Just as I expected. You havent a clue what you are talking about.


  • #7857
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,023 ✭✭✭growleaves


    The burden of proof is on whoever is affirming a theory.

    Saying "X is not definitely proven" is not BS. Like I said, people get emotional at hearing unremarkable statements that seem to go against what they have accepted.


  • #7858
    joeguevara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,255 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    growleaves wrote: »
    The burden of proof is on whoever is affirming a theory.

    Saying "X is not definitely proven" is not BS. Like I said, people get emotional at hearing unremarkable statements that seem to go against what they have accepted.

    No. Firstly its not a theory. Its a fact that masks reduce transmission. You said that that this is not proven, which in itself is ridiculous. But lets go with it. Show me what you are basing your belief that masks do not reduce transmission. As you previously could not do that, i am assuming what you are saying is that you have no basis for saying that masks don't reduce transmission.


  • #7859
    MadYaker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,351 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    Yes: surgical
    growleaves wrote: »
    The burden of proof is on whoever is affirming a theory.

    Saying "X is not definitely proven" is not BS. Like I said, people get emotional at hearing unremarkable statements that seem to go against what they have accepted.

    Does it not seem fairly logical to you no? The virus is transmitted in vapour droplets that we breath out. Masks or face coverings catch these droplets, helping reduce transmission. It seems like logic to me I'm not sure a scientific investigaion is necessary. Even in in the 1918 pandemic they wore masks. In hospitals they wear masks all the time to prevent transmission of respiratory ilnesses like this coronavirus. Why do you think it needs further investigation? In science almost nothing is ever proven 100% but I think it seems logical to me that masks help. Look at Hong Kong, pretty succesfull with no real lockdown and masks were central to their approach.


  • #7860
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,023 ✭✭✭growleaves


    joeguevara wrote: »
    No. Firstly its not a theory. Its a fact that masks reduce transmission. You said that that this is not proven, which in itself is ridiculous. But lets go with it. Show me what you are basing your belief that masks do not reduce transmission. As you previously could not do that, i am assuming what you are saying is that you have no basis for saying that masks don't reduce transmission.

    I recall reading a study re influenza that said that masks "might reduce transmission". One of the studies posted above by another poster said research "lends support" to the conclusion.

    This qualifying language is used for a reason, and rightly so since scientific researchers have to be careful and they are trying to discover the truth not reach a satisfying conclusion.


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  • #7861
    joeguevara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,255 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    growleaves wrote: »
    I recall reading a study re influenza that said that masks "might reduce transmission". One of the studies posted above by another poster said research "lends support" to the conclusion.

    This qualifying language is used for a reason, and rightly so since scientific researchers have to be careful and they are trying to discover the truth not reach a satisfying conclusion.

    Why don't you at least stick up a link. Go on don't be shy,


This discussion has been closed.
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