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Has the EU destroyed Ireland?

  • 09-08-2020 1:48am
    #1
    Don2012
    Closed Accounts Posts: 367 ✭✭


    Has the EU destroyed Ireland? Have we lost our identity, culture and heritage because of EU membership?

    I think Ireland doesn't feel Irish anymore. That sense of community, togetherness and love of country is gone.
    Ireland has been taken over be Liberalism and communism is creeping in.


«13

Comments

  • #2
    rapul
    Registered Users Posts: 1,038 ✭✭✭rapul


    What's your opinion on the above first?


  • #3
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Nope. The english did that. I feel our culture has spread better because of EU membership; the Irish have been able to travel around Europe.


  • #4
    YellowBucket
    Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭YellowBucket


    Let me see:

    Standard of living way higher.
    Economic opportunity way higher.
    Made us attractive for FDI as a gateway to single market.
    Personal freedoms were enhanced.
    Infrastructure so much better it’s unrecognisable.
    Independence from British influence and ability to stand on our own two feet made possible.
    Provided the framework that made peace in Northern Ireland a possibility, even if it’s been undermined by Brexit.

    So all in all no it hasn’t and dramatically so.

    We would have been in the shadow of English crazy politics forever. Look at Scotland!


  • #5
    rapul
    Registered Users Posts: 1,038 ✭✭✭rapul


    Ah your first post is edited, sneaky sneaky


  • #6
    YellowBucket
    Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭YellowBucket


    Did Ireland ever feel Irish enough for you?

    For most of the last few centuries we were either a British dominion / colony or run directly from London.

    Then in terms of social and cultural influences, we were utterly deferent to the Catholic Church hierarchy, which is a multinational organisation and basically an odd legacy of the Roman Empire still operating as a state and a religious organisation.

    So if you think bowing down to the pope and ultra conservative values have something to do with being Irish, perhaps think again.

    If anything we’re more Irish now, with more self determination, sense of pride in our culture, sense of self, a set of values that are shared in terms of how we engage with the world and how we see the nation, as well as more soft power and global recognition as a nation than we have been in centuries.


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  • #7
    Don2012
    Closed Accounts Posts: 367 ✭✭Don2012


    YellowBucket wrote: »
    Did Ireland ever feel Irish enough for you?

    For most of the last few centuries we were either a British dominion / colony or run directly from London.

    Then in terms of social and cultural influences, we were utterly deferent to the Catholic Church hierarchy, which is a multinational organisation and basically an odd legacy of the Roman Empire still operating as a state and a religious organisation.

    So if you think bowing down to the pope and ultra conservative values have something to do with being Irish, perhaps think again.

    If anything we’re more Irish now, with more self determination, sense of pride in our culture, sense of self, a set of values that are shared in terms of how we engage with the world and how we see the nation, as well as more soft power and global recognition as a nation than we have been in centuries.

    I haven't even mentioned the Church so why are you?

    This was a video from the ninties, if this doesn't make you see what we've lost I don't know what will. Unless you're a liberal who loves the EU.

    https://youtu.be/fEkc8dGF2ds


  • #8
    YellowBucket
    Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭YellowBucket


    You get to open a thread, not have editorial control of our replies! I’ll mention whatever I like and it’s very relevant in the context of Irish culture through the 20th and even 21st century. If one were not to mention the influence of the church here and its fizzling our, it wouldn’t be ignoring one of the single biggest influences on many aspects of recent Irish culture, the state, public policy, education, the evolution of fundamental rights and individual liberty here etc etc etc

    A lot of the commentary from those who bemoan a notion of Ireland losing identity tend to be harking back to a bygone era of a conservative religious Ireland.

    Also things like changing technology, access to more global culture, travel, and so on have had profound impacts on opening this place up as well as just cracking open a lot of national discourse and breaking down all sorts of taboos and so on.

    No country is going to remain exactly the same through the decades and there were a lot of influences here, the EU is one of them, but far from the only one.


  • #9
    Don2012
    Closed Accounts Posts: 367 ✭✭Don2012


    YellowBucket wrote: »
    You get to open a thread, not have editorial control of our replies! I’ll mention whatever I like and it’s very relevant in the context of Irish culture through the 20th and even 21st century. If one were not to mention the influence of the church here and its fizzling our, it wouldn’t be ignoring one of the single biggest influences on many aspects of recent Irish culture, the state, public policy, education, the evolution of fundamental rights and individual liberty here etc etc etc

    This is my thread, so I'll say what I like!!!!!!!!!!!!


  • #10
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,036 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Don2012 wrote: »
    Has the EU destroyed Ireland? Have we lost our identity, culture and heritage because of EU membership?

    No. It has been a force for good:

    employment laws
    env laws
    etc.

    No, we have not lost our culture /heritage due to the EU.

    Culture/heritage may have changed, some things lost, but little of that is due to the EU.


  • #11
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,036 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Don2012 wrote: »
    Ireland has been taken over be Liberalism and communism is creeping in.

    More people voting for PBP / SF is not due to the EU.

    Is it?


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  • #12
    JustAThought
    Registered Users Posts: 5,323 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    We ruined it for ourselves Nd allowed without protest those who govern in our name to take no heed of our wishes or will or culture or values as they casually erroded and destroyed our landscape, cityscapes, housing expectTions and hopes, employment laws and dreams as well as the sovrwignty of our nation and any hope our children or grandchildren might have had for a stress free and relaxed future. We presided without protest over an orgy of abuse,public waste, cronyism, and lack of accountability at every level in the civil service and government bodies. We let them away with it for 30 years. We are responsible.


  • #13
    Don2012
    Closed Accounts Posts: 367 ✭✭Don2012


    Geuze wrote: »
    More people voting for PBP / SF is not due to the EU.

    Is it?

    All parties in government are the same now. No opposition, they all are one big happy family who have sold Ireland out to the highest bidder.


  • #14
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 81,058 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    We would need to vote on it a couple of times until the result was right.


  • #15
    YellowBucket
    Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭YellowBucket


    Seems this is another thread trying to get a debate going using American reductionist terminology like "liberals" completely out of context.

    I didn't realise I was on Twitter and assumed the level of debate in this forum was a bit more evolved and nuanced.


  • #16
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,036 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Don2012 wrote: »
    All parties in government are the same now. No opposition, they all are one big happy family who have sold Ireland out to the highest bidder.

    The three parties in Govt are not the same, but ok, somewhat similar.

    However, the members would maybe be more different than the TDs??

    It is common for coalitions across Europe to be made up of fairly similar parties.


  • #17
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,036 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Don2012 wrote: »
    All parties in government are the same now. No opposition, they all are one big happy family who have sold Ireland out to the highest bidder.


    What does this statement mean, highlighted?

    Who is the "highest bidder"?


  • #18
    Don2012
    Closed Accounts Posts: 367 ✭✭Don2012


    YellowBucket wrote: »
    Seems this is another thread trying to get a debate going using American reductionist terminology like "liberals" completely out of context.

    I didn't realise I was on Twitter and assumed the level of debate in this forum was a bit more evolved and nuanced.

    Seems it's ok for people on here to use the American term "right-wing" but not liberal.


  • #19
    Don2012
    Closed Accounts Posts: 367 ✭✭Don2012


    Geuze wrote: »
    What does this statement mean, highlighted?

    Who is the "highest bidder"?

    Politicians!!!


  • #20
    Don2012
    Closed Accounts Posts: 367 ✭✭Don2012


    Geuze wrote: »
    The three parties in Govt are not the same, but ok, somewhat similar.

    However, the members would maybe be more different than the TDs??

    It is common for coalitions across Europe to be made up of fairly similar parties.

    Ireland is one of the only countries that have NO opposition, it's a joke at this stage!!


  • #21
    YellowBucket
    Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭YellowBucket


    Half the TDs are in government, the other half are in opposition

    SF, social democrats, PBP m, the independents etc etc are all in opposition.

    There's an extremely low bar of entry to politics here. PR STV voting, no party lists, very little party control and ease of election as small party or independent.

    If you’re not seeing a lot of conservatives being elected, it’s because there isn’t demand for their politics and they’re not getting votes.

    This stuff about how there’s no opposition is utter garbage.


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  • #22
    Don2012
    Closed Accounts Posts: 367 ✭✭Don2012


    YellowBucket wrote: »
    Half the TDs are in government, the other half are in opposition

    SF, social democrats, PBP m, the independents etc etc are all in opposition.

    There's an extremely low bar of entry to politics here. PR STV voting, no party lists, very little party control and ease of election as small party or independent.

    If you’re not seeing a lot of conservatives being elected, it’s because there isn’t demand for their politics and they’re not getting votes.

    This stuff about how there’s no opposition is utter garbage.

    Opposition my ass!!!!!!!!!
    They all are bought and paid for by the EU, they all support the same policies now. Look, the silent majority have no voice and have had enough, believe me I'm one of them.


  • #23
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,517 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Don2012 wrote: »
    Has the EU destroyed Ireland? Have we lost our identity, culture and heritage because of EU membership?

    I think Ireland doesn't feel Irish anymore. That sense of community, togetherness and love of country is gone.
    Ireland has been taken over be Liberalism and communism is creeping in.

    Absolutely not.

    And, as much as I can see, those complaining about the loss of a sense of community, togetherness and love of country is gone do less then jack to try to encourage such sentiments within the community where they live.

    Communism? GTFO with that nonsense. We have regular open elections at every sector of society which influences us. Elections in which proportional representation is almost entirely used. We have one of the most democratic societies on the planet.


  • #24
    YellowBucket
    Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭YellowBucket


    Silent, as in imaginary?


  • #25
    Don2012
    Closed Accounts Posts: 367 ✭✭Don2012


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Absolutely not.

    And, as much as I can see, those complaining about the loss of a sense of community, togetherness and love of country is gone do less then jack to try to encourage such sentiments within the community where they live.

    Communism? GTFO with that nonsense. We have regular open elections at every sector of society which influences us. Elections in which proportional representation is almost entirely used. We have one of the most democratic societies on the planet.

    The laws and restrictions imposed on us for months now, is straight out of the Communist playbook.


  • #26
    Suckit
    Registered Users Posts: 11,215 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    Don2012 wrote: »
    I haven't even mentioned the Church so why are you?

    This was a video from the ninties, if this doesn't make you see what we've lost I don't know what will. Unless you're a liberal who loves the EU.

    https://youtu.be/fEkc8dGF2ds
    Old cars?
    What have we lost there?
    Everyone there is celebrating Ireland partaking in a foreign sport.
    If we did that well again in a competition, I guarantee that the same type of reactions will happen, maybe more so. People will still flood out on to the streets and sing a Spanish worded song
    We just probably won't have the old cars. The retro jerseys will probably make a comeback.


  • #27
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,036 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Don2012 wrote: »
    Opposition my ass!!!!!!!!!
    They all are bought and paid for by the EU, they all support the same policies now. Look, the silent majority have no voice and have had enough, believe me I'm one of them.

    The SF and PBP in opposition are sceptical of the EU, not supporters of the EU.

    Labour and the Soc Dems - I'd say they support the EU?


  • #28
    Don2012
    Closed Accounts Posts: 367 ✭✭Don2012


    Suckit wrote: »
    Old cars?
    What have we lost there?
    Everyone there is celebrating Ireland partaking in a foreign sport.
    If we did that well again in a competition, I guarantee that the same type of reactions will happen, maybe more so. People will still flood out on to the streets and sing a Spanish worded song
    We just probably won't have the old cars. The retro jerseys will probably make a comeback.

    You are missing the bigger picture. That Ireland is gone forever. That togetherness and proud to Irish is gone forever.


  • #29
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,036 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Don2012 wrote: »
    Opposition my ass!!!!!!!!!
    They all are bought and paid for by the EU, they all support the same policies now. Look, the silent majority have no voice and have had enough, believe me I'm one of them.


    The EU pay for SF and PBP?

    I don't understand you.

    Can you be very clear, please?


  • #30
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,221 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Don2012 wrote: »
    You are missing the bigger picture. That Ireland is gone forever. That togetherness and proud to Irish is gone forever.

    Me hole. You’re describing a subjective experience of nationhood and belonging. Do you own, or have access to, a mirror?

    Go take a long hard look in it.


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  • #31
    YellowBucket
    Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭YellowBucket


    Don2012 wrote: »
    You are missing the bigger picture. That Ireland is gone forever. That togetherness and proud to Irish is gone forever.

    Ah yeah! Back in 1990 when you’d various auld grumps giving out about it being a “foreign game” and various racists moaning about the fact that the team wasn’t Irish enough for them.

    Nostalgia is great.

    Italia 90 was probably the big moment when the modern Ireland you seem to have an issue with was probably taking its first footsteps onto the world stage, yet you don’t even recognise that.

    That moment in 1990 is very much part of now, in a way that a lot of that traditionalist and conservative stuff absolutely is not.

    It was outward looking, positive, embraced people as Irish and as folk heroes who were born elsewhere, had different skin colours, accents and backgrounds and even embraced an Englishman as a national treasure, without any of the baggage in either direction.

    It was absolutely the opposite of some kind of an inward looking event or moment in history.


This discussion has been closed.
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