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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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  • #842
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Steady on now, it's a few clusters, not the whole industry and living conditions may have as much if not more to do with the spread. That's what emerged from the construction sites which were closed.

    Isn't it a little bit silly though that all of the talk is focused around pubs, masks and curfews?

    There have been several factories impacted since May. The government hasn't forced these factories to do anything. There are many more that will likely have similar outbreaks to ones we have seen already.

    I wouldn't consider meat to be essential. We can survive a shortage or even live without it if needed. If necessary, these plants should be shut down.


  • #843
    robbiezero
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,718 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    John O.Groats wrote: »
    You and your fellow drum bangers were wrong in April and you are still wrong now. If the lockdown had not been implemented the country would be in a far worse situation than it is now.

    Lot of knowledge for a poster who only registered in the middle of July.


  • #844
    John O.Groats
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 837 ✭✭✭John O.Groats


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Isn't it a little bit silly though that all of the talk is focused around pubs, masks and curfews?

    There have been several factories impacted since May. The government hasn't forced these factories to do anything. There are many more that will likely have similar outbreaks to ones we have seen already.

    I wouldn't consider meat to be essential. We can survive a shortage or even live without it if needed. If necessary, these plants should be shut down.

    You don`t consider meat essential and claim people can live without it yet you constantly bang your drum about wanting pubs and clubs reopened. Hmm. Very revealing comment.


  • #845
    HeidiHeidi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,325 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It won't stay like this, it simply can't.
    You don't get to live a few billion in deficit each month for long.

    You (and others) repeatedly stamping your foot and saying "but it CAN'T" won't change a thing about the situation we, and the entire rest of the world, are in.

    What would the deficit be if the virus gets to run unchecked through the population again, if we throw open the doors to everything?


  • #846
    The Belly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 572 ✭✭✭The Belly


    joseywhales wrote: »
    If we had 100% compliance on masks , social distancing, businesses and schools making sure that there are adequate precautions,ventilation and distancing, then I think we could have most businesses running.

    The problem is we can't get that compliance, even though it is proven to save lives and lesson permanent lung injury in others. Those conditions hardly make life unbearable.

    Reducing obesity would save many many more lives but we cant get compliance on that either and we dont turn around and ban 3/4's of the food outlets and half the food in the supermarket or hand the decisions on compliance over to nutritionists and doctors backed up with the threat of fines.


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  • #847
    MickeyLeari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 917 ✭✭✭MickeyLeari


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Steady on now, it's a few clusters, not the whole industry and living conditions may have as much if not more to do with the spread. That's what emerged from the construction sites which were closed.

    Yes but this is being used as a stick on the entire population. Listen to Donnelly and Martin - music to their ears in terms of justifying the new lockdown measures.


  • #848
    facehugger99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,823 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    Eventually even the slowest lads in class are going to realise the futility of the lockdown.

    For the virus, it doesn't matter if we stay in lockdown for another 2 weeks or 2 years. The only difference will be the billions of euros that have been flushed away.

    The slow lads might even start to think how handy those billions of euros would have been to fund a health service that's even more dysfunctional because we're hundreds of billions in debt.

    Lockdown was about buying a few weeks preparation time for the health service to gear up - not about eliminating the virus - it's been driven now by hysteria on social media and single-issue bureaucrats. The politicians are paralyzed by fear of being labeled 'granny-killers'.

    The slow lads will wake up one morning and see the devastated economy, the thousands of viable businesses lost, the hundreds of thousands out of work, the hundreds of billions of debt to be passed onto their kids and grand-kids, the chronically underfunded public services and wonder why nobody told them this was going to happen.



    It's almost funny to see the penny start to drop with some of them


  • #849
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    John O.Groats wrote: »
    You don`t consider meat essential and claim people can live without it yet you constantly bang your drum about wanting pubs and clubs reopened. Hmm. Very revealing comment.

    Lockdown supporters have been banging on and on and on about getting rid of Covid at all costs. And yet there is resistance to closing a few meat plants?

    Do you want to get rid of Covid or not? Maybe you just enjoy lockdown?


  • #850
    Allinall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,269 ✭✭✭Allinall


    The Belly wrote: »
    Reducing obesity would save many many more lives but we cant get compliance on that either and we dont turn around and ban 3/4's of the food outlets and half the food in the supermarket or hand the decisions on compliance over to nutritionists and doctors backed up with the threat of fines.

    When is the last time you heard of someone catching obesity from another person?


  • #851
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    HeidiHeidi wrote: »
    You (and others) repeatedly stamping your foot and saying "but it CAN'T" won't change a thing about the situation we, and the entire rest of the world, are in.

    What would the deficit be if the virus gets to run unchecked through the population again, if we throw open the doors to everything?

    You realize that millions die every year of all kinds of illness, right?
    If those deaths don't destroy the economy, why would Covid deaths be any different?


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  • #852
    The Belly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 572 ✭✭✭The Belly


    Allinall wrote: »
    When is the last time you heard of someone catching obesity from another person?

    Ha:) yes sorry maybe a bad comparision the point was trying to get 100% on compliance with anything is impossible and with a covid being airborne all the restrictions will not stop or eradicate it.


  • #853
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Lockdown supporters have been banging on and on and on about getting rid of Covid at all costs. And yet there is resistance to closing a few meat plants?

    Do you want to get rid of Covid or not? Maybe you just enjoy lockdown?

    Lockdowns and other staged levels of restrictions are in place to allow high risk, essential workplaces continue to operate in the knowledge that cases will continue in these locations, such as food processing and healthcare. If we were only having outbreaks in meat plants and in the homes of workers in the meat plants, the disease would quickly die.

    If we shutdown food processing and healthcare to keep everything else open, how do you think that would work out?


  • #854
    Naos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,740 ✭✭✭Naos


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Isn't it a little bit silly though that all of the talk is focused around pubs, masks and curfews?

    There have been several factories impacted since May. The government hasn't forced these factories to do anything. There are many more that will likely have similar outbreaks to ones we have seen already.

    I wouldn't consider meat to be essential. We can survive a shortage or even live without it if needed. If necessary, these plants should be shut down.

    Ah come on, of all the things you've posted this is really absurd.

    You cannot compare a meat processing factory to a pub.


  • #855
    John O.Groats
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 837 ✭✭✭John O.Groats


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Lockdown supporters have been banging on and on and on about getting rid of Covid at all costs. And yet there is resistance to closing a few meat plants?

    Do you want to get rid of Covid or not? Maybe you just enjoy lockdown?

    Ah yes the usual deflection tactic. Completely predictable from you. To return to my previous post which you have ignored. You want pubs and clubs reopened as soon as possible. Yet you have no issue with meat plants being closed. Explain this for the "slow lads" as I see one of your fellow drum bangers has described some of us.


  • #856
    HeidiHeidi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,325 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You realize that millions die every year of all kinds of illness, right?
    If those deaths don't destroy the economy, why would Covid deaths be any different?

    You realise that all those other illnesses aren't wildly infectious, right? Spread by completely asymptomatic people, right?

    If you cant (or won't) see the difference, then I'm afraid I cant help you.


  • #857
    The Belly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 572 ✭✭✭The Belly


    HeidiHeidi wrote: »
    You realise that all those other illnesses aren't wildly infectious, right?

    If you cant (or won't) see the difference, then I'm afraid I cant help you.

    The seasonal flu is and we dont introduce restrictions every year.

    And what about all these other illnesses that are not being diagnosed or treated due to the obsession with covid?

    People are avoiding the Gp and hospitals which means problems are going undiagnosed or untreated and in many cases are far more lethal then covid.

    One Example.

    Around 10,000 people die in Ireland from cardiovascular disease each year and represent over a third (36%) of all deaths. Such deaths can be avoided - almost all heart disease (80%) can be prevented by making lifestyle changes and reducing the risk factors


  • #858
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    John O.Groats wrote: »
    Ah yes the usual deflection tactic. Completely predictable from you. To return to my previous post which you have ignored. You want pubs and clubs reopened as soon as possible. Yet you have no issue with meat plants being closed. Explain this for the "slow lads" as I see one of your fellow drum bangers has described some of us.

    There are huge numbers of Covid in the plants. The ones with lots of cases should be closed if not already. Actions need to be put in place to try to prevent outbreaks in other plants.

    No cases reported in pubs since lots of them reopened in June.

    Whats to explain?


  • #859
    John O.Groats
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 837 ✭✭✭John O.Groats


    Naos wrote: »
    Ah come on, of all the things you've posted this is really absurd.

    You cannot compare a meat processing factory to a pub.

    It appears he considers pubs and clubs as more important than meat plants. Interesting priorities don't you think?


  • #860
    HeidiHeidi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,325 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    The Belly wrote: »
    The seasonal flu is and we dont introduce restrictions every year.

    And what about all these other illnesses that are not being diagnosed or treated due to the obsession with covid?

    People are avoiding the Gp and hospitals which means problems are going undiagnosed or untreated and in many cases are far more lethal then covid.

    One Example.

    Around 10,000 people die in Ireland from cardiovascular disease each year and represent over a third (36%) of all deaths. Such deaths can be avoided - almost all heart disease (80%) can be prevented by making lifestyle changes and reducing the risk factors

    The seasonal flu is not as infectious, nor as fatal (afaik), as covid. There is a vaccine for most strains of it, which unfortunately has a low take update, that's on us.

    We have been repeatedly told to see our doctors or attend hospitals if suffering symptoms of other illnesses.

    How do you think other illnesses would fare if our hospitals became overwhelmed with covid cases if it is let take off again? Because we barely stayed within capacity first time around.


  • #861
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,938 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    John O.Groats wrote: »
    It appears he considers pubs and clubs as more important than meat plants. Interesting priorities don't you think?

    I know you have your side to defend, but is it not even a little bit remarkable that industries with proven issues with covid such as nursing homes and meat factories, they are just footnotes compared to other industries that actually have reported almost zero cases?

    Even before lockdown people were crying about pubs in Temple bar all the while elderly people were dying in their hundreds in the nursing homes, that should be a national disgrace but again the focus is deflected onto masks and pubs.

    Pubs more important than food supply? I can't see anybody who said that so it is nothing but a strawman from you. But regardless of importance, one is a known vector for covid transmission with alarming numbers of cases, the other is the pubs. Guess which one gets all the news.


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  • #862
    The Belly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 572 ✭✭✭The Belly


    HeidiHeidi wrote: »
    The seasonal flu is not as infectious, nor as fatal (afaik), as covid. There is a vaccine for most strains of it, which unfortunately has a low take update, that's on us.

    We have been repeatedly told to see our doctors or attend hospitals if suffering symptoms of other illnesses.

    How do you think other illnesses would fare if our hospitals became overwhelmed with covid cases if it is let take off again? Because we barely stayed within capacity first time around.

    At the peak, ICU beds were 60% capacity and private hodpitals were at 33% if I remember.

    And what we know now which we didnt fully know then is that this is a disease that affects older people predominately why not focus resources on this area rather then the whole population?

    Everyone has a choice and if your in the high risk catogory then you should take measures to avoid infection as were taken during the lockdown but again as a choice.

    For everyone else life should go on as normal.


  • #863
    CruelSummer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,324 ✭✭✭CruelSummer


    i_surge wrote: »
    Virus doesn't care about land borders on a map, neither should the response.

    I know it is a crazy thought, but maybe some diplomacy in the face of an international crisis.

    Keep naysaying.

    As I suspected, you didn’t answer one single point I made and then asked for my suggestions. You are calling for a zero Covid approach, let’s hear how you get the EU bailout fund behaving like a country that’s not a member, also the little matter of paying our day-to-day bills has gone ignored also. Let’s hear your suggestions for that, we’re already down another 8.3bn for July. You’re stating all that’s needed is ‘some diplomacy’.
    Perhaps you should have tuned into John Hume’s funeral during the week to understand the magnitude of the situation in the North, the sacrifices made and all that’s been achieved through endless diplomatic efforts before belittling efforts that continue for an all island approach to date.


  • #864
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,048 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    But your decisions can effect others. You go about your life as normal, but what about the person you meet in the pub that hasn't been so cautious and gets infected? You are now infected but since you are being careful you don't think you have it and so visit your parents.

    You simply don't know the situation of the other people you meet. And we can say with strong confidence based on many posts on this thread that there will always be a portion of the community that will not take the necessary precautions.

    But even if one is super vigilant, it is very hard to maintain a complete distance whilst going about normal business. A quick handshake without thinking, using a door handle and not cleaning hands straight after. It is almost impossible so the best way is to reduce the amount risk.

    The reason for the lockdown is to restrict the spread. It weasn't done for no reason. Basic understanding of breathing would infectious diseases would point to limiting contact reduces the risk of spread.


  • #865
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    But your decisions can effect others. You go about your life as normal, but what about the person you meet in the pub that hasn't been so cautious and gets infected? You are now infected but since you are being careful you don't think you have it and so visit your parents.

    You simply don't know the situation of the other people you meet. And we can say with strong confidence based on many posts on this thread that there will always be a portion of the community that will not take the necessary precautions.

    But even if one is super vigilant, it is very hard to maintain a complete distance whilst going about normal business. A quick handshake without thinking, using a door handle and not cleaning hands straight after. It is almost impossible so the best way is to reduce the amount risk.

    The reason for the lockdown is to restrict the spread. It weasn't done for no reason. Basic understanding of breathing would infectious diseases would point to limiting contact reduces the risk of spread.

    Well, we are going into month 6 of it now and cases are increasing again as well as billions of debt building up and businesses failing. Also lots of others are suffering because they can't get hospital treatment and many will likely die from lack of testing/screening. And then there is mental health.

    Our tactics are not working very well.

    Restricting the spread won't get us anywhere unless there a vaccine coming very soon.


  • #866
    Allinall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,269 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Well, we are going into month 6 of it now and cases are increasing again as well as billions of debt building up and businesses failing. Also lots of others are suffering because they can't get hospital treatment and many will likely die from lack of testing/screening. And then there is mental health.

    Our tactics are not working very well.

    Restricting the spread won't get us anywhere unless there a vaccine coming very soon.

    How do you know this?

    You cannot possibly tell what situation we would be in if we hadn't taken the steps we did.


  • #867
    The Belly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 572 ✭✭✭The Belly


    But your decisions can effect others. You go about your life as normal, but what about the person you meet in the pub that hasn't been so cautious and gets infected? You are now infected but since you are being careful you don't think you have it and so visit your parents.

    If you decide to go to the pub or go about your business then dont visit at risk people.
    You simply don't know the situation of the other people you meet. And we can say with strong confidence based on many posts on this thread that there will always be a portion of the community that will not take the necessary precautions.

    Which is why restrictions are pointless. The focus is the wrong way around it should be on the elderly.
    But even if one is super vigilant, it is very hard to maintain a complete distance whilst going about normal business. A quick handshake without thinking, using a door handle and not cleaning hands straight after. It is almost impossible so the best way is to reduce the amount risk.

    Life cannot function like that with everyone turning into a germaphobe.
    The reason for the lockdown is to restrict the spread. It weasn't done for no reason. Basic understanding of breathing would infectious diseases would point to limiting contact reduces the risk of spread.

    Yes i know that but we know a lot more then we did in March. And as i have said the focus should be on the elderly not the whole population


  • #868
    facehugger99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,823 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    The reason for the lockdown is to restrict the spread. It weasn't done for no reason.

    Yeah, restrict the spread for a few weeks until we get geared up to deal with it - not spend 5 months flushing billions down the drain and paying 350,000 people, who are at practically zero risk, not to work.

    What's the plan here? What's the endgame?

    Stay in lock-down until a vaccine comes along? We're going to run a 30bn deficit for this year alone -

    Every month we're adding another €3bn to our debt - how long do you think we'll keep that up?

    Use your brain and stop listening to the hysteria being pumped out by the media.


  • #869
    Virgil°
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,516 ✭✭✭Virgil°


    The Belly wrote: »
    If you decide to go to the pub or go about your business then dont visit at risk people.

    Which is why restrictions are pointless. The focus is the wrong way around it should be on the elderly.

    But then how do you know to a certainty who is or isn't at risk? Any one of of your circle of friends family or even acquaintances could have pre-existing conditions they haven't told you about or aren't aware of themselves. You put them at risk by simply "going about your business".

    Yes i know that but we know a lot more then we did in March. And as i have said the focus should be on the elderly not the whole population

    Yeah, see the elderly are part of this "whole population". It might sound like it makes sense to focus on the elderly and the vunerable. But in reality how does that work? If we just let this disease rip through the rest of the supposedly non-vunerable population? How does an elderly person safely receive any number of say physio/medical/basic care interventions if the person giving the care or a good portion of people around them have the disease? We can't just put the elderly/vunerable into a bubble and leave them to it until a vaccine or foolproof treatment that cuts mortality miraculously appears.
    They're relying on the majority of people around them not being infected.
    Life cannot function like that with everyone turning into a germaphobe.
    This attitude needs to be stomped out. We are not operating under normal circumstances. This is a highly infectious disease. Far more infectious than the seasonal flu. And the people who take extra steps above and beyond to keep the rest of us from catching it need to be applauded not admonished.


  • #870
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,048 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    The Belly wrote: »
    If you decide to go to the pub or go about your business then dont visit at risk people.


    Which people are not at risk? Nobody is immune and despite most of the reporting, understandably, being about those that die, there is more research coming out about the longer term effects on those that get the infection but live.

    There appears to be this thinking that only people that die are affected but the more we learn the more it appears that there are very serious concerns about the effects on those that service. Reduced lung capacity, effects on different organs and of course we have no knowledge of any other effects.

    The Belly wrote: »
    Yes i know that but we know a lot more then we did in March. And as i have said the focus should be on the elderly not the whole population

    So we effectively lock old people away? What age cut-off. Maybe when people retire from work they can be locked up and younger people simply stay away?


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  • #871
    Elmer Blooker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,239 ✭✭✭Elmer Blooker


    bucketybuck wrote: »
    Even before lockdown people were crying about pubs in Temple bar all the while elderly people were dying in their hundreds in the nursing homes, that should be a national disgrace but again the focus is deflected onto masks and pubs.
    But the elderly have been dying in nursing homes for as long as there has been nursing homes?
    Have you ever been in one visiting a relation? They are very stuffy and overheated because the elderly have great difficultly keeping warm as they are so inactive, they suffer from constant chest infections and when antibiotics have no effect due to their weak immune systems pneumonia develops and they die, thats the way it is. They have reached the end of their lives and a family is in mourning.
    Pneumonia is now known as 'covid related' or 'with covid'.


This discussion has been closed.
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