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How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

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  • #242
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    khalessi wrote: »
    Ahh Fringey knew I menat schools but I love how she now is taking over preparation as meaning not accepting reality. Hilarious.

    Like I said, no problem having a contingency plan so long as that's all it is.

    It's a whole other story if a principal is misleading staff into thinking that they won't be expected to show up at school, which was what was implied when it was said that the principal had told the teachers to continue to prepare to teach fully online.

    Would be interesting to see if that principal has made any plans yet for actually opening the school or if they are still in Egypt :)


  • #243
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,441 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Alden Loose Squid wrote: »
    That's not exactly what you said now originally was it.



    Teachers need to accept that they are going back to work in just a few weeks. No 'what about this' and 'what about that', that time has passed now.

    Some do appear to be in complete denial and are finding it hard to accept that the schools are reopening (or that they will remain open).

    Given the layout of this country we might see the occasional local closure but you can bet it will have to be deemed essential and will be short as possible too.

    There are some counties haven't had a case for weeks, highly unlikely we will see the likes of a nationwide long term closure again any time soon.

    We have met the criteria to reopen schools (back in the beginning of May actually). Teachers need to mentally prepare that they will be going back and those that feel they can't have decisions to make.

    Well I said prepare for. Point out where I said only online?

    Any secondary teacher not preparing for a return to online at some stage really are the ones that money the phrase, 'fail to prepare, prepare to fail'. That principal is being very explicit to their staff and I tip my hat to them. They are being realistic in that the chances of them having to close at some stage, even for a short while is quite high. They want zero downtime.


  • #244
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Alden Loose Squid wrote: »
    Like I said, no problem having a contingency plan so long as that's all it is.

    It's a whole other story if a principal is misleading staff into thinking that they won't be expected to show up at school, which was what was implied when it was said that the principal had told the teachers to continue to prepare to teach fully online.

    Would be interesting to see if that principal has made any plans yet for actually opening the school or if they are still in Egypt :)

    Egypt :D imagination running away with you again

    PS typing this from The Bahamas


  • #245
    downthemiddle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,649 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    Alden Loose Squid wrote: »
    Would be interesting to see if that principal has made any plans yet for actually opening the school or if they are still in Egypt :)

    It would also be interesting to see how many posts you have made from work.


  • #246
    Oranage2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,129 ✭✭✭✭Oranage2


    BonsaiKitten wrote: »
    Speaking as a primary teacher I will be surprised if we manage to remain face to face teaching all year. Personally I am just happy to have the first few weeks to get to know the kids - much easier to work with a class online when you have some kind of prior bond - and we'll just see how long we last.


    I would actually do it the other way around at primary level, send in the youngest and have older classes do distance learning. Older kids would be better able to learn at home and there's a huge amount of learning done in the younger primary years.

    Yeah that sounds better or perhaps class 1,2 and 6. I believe 6 is an important term for them though I've no idea.


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  • #247
    elefant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,680 ✭✭✭elefant


    Bananaleaf wrote: »
    Agree. If the schools do have to close again and teachers aren't prepared for it, it will be "OMG how did they not learn from the last time to be prepared for this" "Other schools in Europe had to go back to online teaching, how come they didn't expect this"

    Has this actually happened somewhere? I'm not being argumentative, just genuinely curious.

    I work in a school in the Netherlands, and as far as I'm aware there wasn't any major increase in cases linked to schools reopening, which has been happening since the beginning of May here. And this is has been in a society where the general population have been extremely relaxed in their approach to any restrictions. I know Denmark opened their schools around a month earlier than that, and I don't recall hearing of any great increases there either.


  • #248
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,858 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    elefant wrote: »
    Has this actually happened somewhere? I'm not being argumentative, just genuinely curious.

    I work in a school in the Netherlands, and as far as I'm aware there wasn't any major increase in cases linked to schools reopening, which has been happening since the beginning of May here. And this is has been in a society where the general population have been extremely relaxed in their approach to any restrictions. I know Denmark opened their schools around a month earlier than that, and I don't recall hearing of any great increases there either.

    I wouldn't agree that they are extremely relaxed, certainly not when it comes to travel, advice changes very frequently. They definitely could have acted sooner than they did in the very beginning.

    As regards primary schools and daycares, I'll repeat it here, they were always open to children of frontline workers including teachers in order to keep the essential services functional. So in that respect they had evidence from the height of the curve that schools were safe to reopen. If you can clarify for the posters here, the primary schools were fully open (100% attendance, 5 days a week) for weeks before the summary break because many don't believe me. I have somewhat of an insight into secondary schools, and the support staff were working to open the schools with all necessary precautions in place from the moment they closed to the students. Many would have been ready to open within weeks of closing for practical exams, which went ahead.


  • #249
    Newbie20
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 728 ✭✭✭Newbie20


    Alden Loose Squid wrote: »
    And would you not agree, if you were working outside the home during the past few months, that you have had to overcome certain things mentally so that you could continue to do your job?

    That sometimes you were afraid of the risks but you needed to 'put the blinkers on' so that you could keep going?

    Very easy for you to say this when you don’t work. I know you said you “work nights” but anybody here would know that’s just not possible as you spend all your days here. Anybody working nights needs to sleep during the day. You’ve been teacher bashing here in all the different threads for 5 months straight, you’re like a broken record.


  • #250
    Alrigghtythen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭Alrigghtythen


    grind gremlin wrote: »
    The notion that we can put up to 30 children in a small classroom and expect them to maintain any level of social distance is ridiculous. Children are naturally inquisitive, they touch everything, younger children frequently put objects in their mouth. Filling up our halls and any spare space around the school means that children will have little time outside of their own seat when the poor weather kicks in.
    We have multiple students in our classes with learning difficulties / additional needs. Approx 1 in 60 are on the autistic spectrum. 1/10 have dyslexia. (Just a couple of examples) These children frequently need additional support. Any entitlement they had to learning support or resource will be eaten up by the need for the SET team to cover absences. In children with challenging behaviour, this will cause incidents to rise in the classroom.
    You could have the best plan in the world to keep your pods / students apart but it is practically impossible to manage this successfully throughout the day. When you work with children you need to be prepared for every possibility. Anyone with classroom experience knows that.
    We are well aware that we are all going back in September. We are also well aware of the difficulty implementing the ‘roadmap’.
    When cases emerge in schools, and there inevitably will be cases, our large class sizes will again impact on the fallout. If a child with 2 siblings tests positive, there is every chance that over 80 families could be impacted.
    Every teacher that is returning with the same thought...... please don’t let it be our school.....
    Reopening all schools fully can only lead to a massive increase in cases. Our hospitals will dictate when we all close down again. Once those beds start to fill up it will be back to square one.....
    Theres seems to be a lot of confusion between the terms reduction and elimination


  • #251
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,858 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    Newbie20 wrote: »
    Very easy for you to say this when you don’t work. I know you said you “work nights” but anybody here would know that’s just not possible as you spend all your days here. Anybody working nights needs to sleep during the day. You’ve been teacher bashing here in all the different threads for 5 months straight, you’re like a broken record.

    The most prolific poster here is a teacher with apparent broadband issues who swore they were online 24/7 for their students, which also seemed pretty unlikely, but if challenged screamed "TEACHER BASHING".


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  • #252
    channaigh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 419 ✭✭channaigh


    Just heard from the primary school here. The kids are staying with their classroom and only mixing with that class of 30. So I presume this is what they are now calling a pod


  • #253
    combat14
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭combat14


    just seen today that our 5 day average of cases has gone from just under 10 to 50 a day.. which doesnt sound good..

    government are concerned that it is a short hop from 50 to 70 to 100 a day at which case schools will have to close again or not even open ..

    still a lot of work to do yet before we get to end of august ...


  • #254
    grind gremlin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 420 ✭✭grind gremlin


    Alrigghtythen wrote: »
    Theres seems to be a lot of confusion between the terms reduction and elimination

    The ability to reduce risk in any meaningful way in our overcrowded classrooms is minuscule.
    I am under no illusions as to anyone’s ability to eliminate the virus. I have been teaching for years. I know how a classroom works.
    I will implement all of the guidelines and do everything in my power to reduce risk but it’s essentially pi$$ing in the wind when they are packed in together. 500 people can’t attend an outdoor match but we can pour them into our classrooms.
    Our entire plan is based on the assertion that the virus isn’t airborne....... how many scientists have attested to this not being true.


  • #255
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Newbie20 wrote: »
    Teachers will have to put the head down and work through it. We have no option really. But it’s easy for you to say this when you don’t work.
    Do you think that people who work in essential services, manufacturing or other services don't to deal with dangers of covid? More or less all of us had to adapt in some way. It's not just the work practices, some people lost their livelihoods. I smiled when I saw complaints how some people won't be able to see their at risk relatives. That's hardly unique, I don't know when I will be able to travel to see my parents next and they don't know when they will see their grandkids. It's something we have to deal with because of our jobs or because of where we live.

    So maybe things are not as easy for a lot of us but many just deal with it. Don't assume that others have it easy just because we don't complain as much as some in this thread. Don't assume others are not making sacrifices in their life and teachers are somehow unique.


  • #256
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,858 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    grind gremlin wrote: »
    The ability to reduce risk in any meaningful way in our overcrowded classrooms is minuscule.
    I am under no illusions as to anyone’s ability to eliminate the virus. I have been teaching for years. I know how a classroom works.
    I will implement all of the guidelines and do everything in my power to reduce risk but it’s essentially pi$$ing in the wind when they are packed in together. 500 people can’t attend an outdoor match but we can pour them into our classrooms.
    Our entire plan is based on the assertion that the virus isn’t airborne....... how many scientists have attested to this not being true.

    In the context of the situation of a few weeks ago, numbers down, schools would have been in a better place to reopen. However with restaurants open, pub/restaurant combinations flouting the rules and a severe lack of attention to overseas visitors then you're right, the schools shouldn't reopen fully. But they should be prepared to as soon as the numbers improve.


  • #257
    elefant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,680 ✭✭✭elefant


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    I wouldn't agree that they are extremely relaxed, certainly not when it comes to travel, advice changes very frequently. They definitely could have acted sooner than they did in the very beginning.

    As regards primary schools and daycares, I'll repeat it here, they were always open to children of frontline workers including teachers in order to keep the essential services functional. So in that respect they had evidence from the height of the curve that schools were safe to reopen. If you can clarify for the posters here, the primary schools were fully open (100% attendance, 5 days a week) for weeks before the summary break because many don't believe me. I have somewhat of an insight into secondary schools, and the support staff were working to open the schools with all necessary precautions in place from the moment they closed to the students. Many would have been ready to open within weeks of closing for practical exams, which went ahead.

    I just mean more extremely relaxed as a society. Other than the fact that large events are cancelled, nightclubs etc. remain closed and masks are required on public transport, you would hardly know there's any difference to life in Amsterdam now compared to this time last year.

    And yes, schools were definitely fully re-opened at the beginning of June, so there were a few weeks of school as normal before the holidays.(https://nltimes.nl/2020/06/08/netherlands-primary-schools-reopen-completely) The real administrative headache is organising drop-offs and pick-ups while keeping parents apart, and trying to keep teaching staff from crossing paths during the school day.


  • #258
    freak scence
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 442 ✭✭freak scence


    F5500 wrote: »
    That article makes for ominous reading.

    yep a cluster****


  • #259
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,505 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    meeeeh wrote: »
    I smiled when I saw complaints how some people won't be able to see their at risk relatives. That's hardly unique, I don't know when I will be able to travel to see my parents next and they don't know when they will see their grandkids. It's something we have to deal with because of our jobs or because of where we live.

    Nice.


  • #260
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    The most prolific poster here is a teacher with apparent broadband issues who swore they were online 24/7 for their students, which also seemed pretty unlikely, but if challenged screamed "TEACHER BASHING".

    That would probably be me would it?

    If so when did I say I have broadband issues? I said I had to buy broadband and a laptop to work online. I did that in March I think you are confusing me with someone else.

    I only say teacher bashing if relevent and sadly on here it is relevent a lot.

    I never said 24/7 your imagination running away with you.
    HOwever I didnt say that I put in long days sometimes 18hours which I did as I wanted to be there for the children and I did say I had kids mailing me at 1 am and I used to start at 5am in the beginning for the children who could not access internet during the day. I also had kids working through the night when on Ramadan and since I am nocturnal and sleep about 3-4 hours per night I would give them a hand when they needed it.

    Hialrious you have issues with a teacher enjoying doing their job and tryingt o make it easier and less stress for children during this time.

    Get it right if you are going to complain.


  • #261
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,858 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    elefant wrote: »
    The real administrative headache is organising drop-offs and pick-ups while keeping parents apart, and trying to keep teaching staff from crossing paths during the school day.

    We salute you for it though, our regenboog and beertje are still firmly in the window for all front line staff- including teachers :)


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  • #262
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    We salute you for it though, our regenboog and beertje are still firmly in the window for all front line staff- including teachers :)

    I hear Israel are having issues about their education system I hope you are on there as much as here as you have as much relevence


  • #263
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,858 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    khalessi wrote: »

    I never said 24/7 your imagination running away with you.
    HOwever I didnt say that I put in long days sometimes 18hours which I did as I wanted to be there for the children and I did say I had kids mailing me at 1 am and I used to start at 5am in the beginning for the children who could not access internet during the day. I also had kids working through the night when on Ramadan and since I am nocturnal and sleep about 3-4 hours per night I would give them a hand when they needed it.

    Hialrious you have issues with a teacher enjoying doing their job and tryingt o make it easier and less stress for children during this time.

    Get it right if you are going to complain.

    Children on the internet at 5am for school? My imagination??


  • #264
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    Children on the internet at 5am for school? My imagination??

    Yep and I have no reason to lie. Why should I? As I pointed out for some they were doing Ramadam and for others it was the only time they could access internet with parents wfh during the day. I dont expect you to understand why they were asking questions at 5 but their parents when I spoke to them about it were happy enough with it even though I thought it odd.

    FOrget about me why would someone living in Holland with no relevence to Irish education or knowledge of it spend their time harassing teachers in a different country online when they have toddlers. CUrious really.


  • #265
    Alex86Eire
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 331 ✭✭Alex86Eire


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    Children on the internet at 5am for school? My imagination??

    I got work being submitted at all hours of the night/early morning. Some kids were in households with 1/2 devices with parents and siblings working from home so they had to divide the times up.
    One of my lads had from 6 am -8 am to try and get all of his work done.
    Not unusual.


  • #266
    Newbie20
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 728 ✭✭✭Newbie20


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Do you think that people who work in essential services, manufacturing or other services don't to deal with dangers of covid? More or less all of us had to adapt in some way. It's not just the work practices, some people lost their livelihoods. I smiled when I saw complaints how some people won't be able to see their at risk relatives. That's hardly unique, I don't know when I will be able to travel to see my parents next and they don't know when they will see their grandkids. It's something we have to deal with because of our jobs or because of where we live.

    So maybe things are not as easy for a lot of us but many just deal with it. Don't assume that others have it easy just because we don't complain as much as some in this thread. Don't assume others are not making sacrifices in their life and teachers are somehow unique.

    I didn’t say anything about other industries? I just said that we would have to go back and get on with it. If you read my post, my gripe is that I’m tired of listening to one particular poster here with her constant “advice” but the same poster seems to do very little herself. I’ve no problem listening to opinions from any person that is working and has had to overcome challenges in order to do so.


  • #267
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,858 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    Alex86Eire wrote: »
    One of my lads had from 6 am -8 am to try and get all of his work done.
    Not unusual.

    Primary or secondary? If primary, I seriously think it would be barbaric to accept work from a child at 5am. If my child's teacher came to me to say that they had received work from them at 5am I'd send them to therapy.

    Poor children, this is harder on them than anyone else.


  • #268
    Newbie20
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 728 ✭✭✭Newbie20


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    The most prolific poster here is a teacher with apparent broadband issues who swore they were online 24/7 for their students, which also seemed pretty unlikely, but if challenged screamed "TEACHER BASHING".

    What had this got to do with what I posted?


  • #269
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,858 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    Newbie20 wrote: »
    What had this got to do with what I posted?

    It means, attack the post not the poster. Lots of teachers here with their heads screwed on properly who are well able for a debate or to flesh out a more robust, safe plan, and lots who would shut everyone with an opposing opinion to theirs down with "TEACHER BASHING", despite what is being said about parents, children and other posters.


  • #270
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    It means, attack the post not the poster. Lots of teachers here with their heads screwed on properly who are well able for a debate or to flesh out a more robust, safe plan, and lots who would shut everyone with an opposing opinion to theirs down with "TEACHER BASHING", despite what is being said about parents, children and other posters.

    And yet you personalised it.


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  • #271
    Blondini
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭Blondini


    Jaysus, a few of the intellectuals have had their weetabix this morning. On fire :pac:

    No sign of tent-boy though. Is he gone in for a factory reset or something?


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