Parkrun..

Pawwed Rig · 04-08-2020 7:32am

I cannot see parkrun being the first organised run to return. When we see club events and marathons start up again that is when I think parkrun will come back. Or they may just wait for the vaccine (if that ever happens)

crisco10 · 04-08-2020 9:54am

Parkrun opening up again really depends how far the organisers want to move away from their "brand". Parkrun has always pitched itself as having extremely low barriers to entry. Any COVID management plan will add some friction, and the sooner they want to go back the more friction there will be. So the question is really, how high can those barriers to entry be and still be acceptably close to the parkrun brand identity?

DeepBlue · 04-08-2020 3:11pm

Latest parkrun update - https://blog.parkrun.com/ie/2020/08/04/covid-19-coronavirus-update-4-august/

There seems to be some concrete progress with a framework for running parkruns in a covid world being released on Friday.

robinph · 04-08-2020 3:21pm

Damn, beaten to it.

Will be interested to see what they come up with and how much they see as needing to be tweaked...

average_runner · 04-08-2020 4:10pm

I find it interesting people talk a max of 500, that will include spectators etc.

But it can't work that way as its in a public park and public park can have over 500 anytime without a parkrun race.
Spectators could be people just out for a walk in the park

In their 500 numbers they can only account for stewards and runners.

For example Griffeen park in Lucan, could have two / three gaa matches or training at the same time a race is on.

jimmii · 04-08-2020 6:22pm

Have any events been happening in Ireland? In Scotland we've had some going ahead and theres a few planned for August. The biggest I know of was 199 people split into groups and then they went out 15/minute to keep people seperated. Seemingly it worked well enough with that many people I'm not convinced though.

robinph · 04-08-2020 7:10pm

No events have been happening anywhere under the parkrun banner outside of New Zealand. Whatever has been done in Scotland is most definitely being carried out well under the radar of HQ who would be along to stop them if they caught a sniff of it happening.

What various events worldwide have been doing is variations on the virtual /(not) parkrun events and organising meet ups via zoom and different methods of recording the runs to keep people engaged with parkrun.

jimmii · 04-08-2020 11:00pm

I meant any events no one here is going out on their own like that with a parkrun event shoulf have made that clearer! What % of parkruns are multiple loops? Seems quite high just going by the ones I have done so guessing that virtually rules out staggered starts (seen some that are 4 or 5 laps even!). Is it likely that parkrun might even be one of the last events to come back?

robinph · 04-08-2020 11:07pm

Have heard of a couple of races locally doing time trials with 15 seconds or so delay between runners starting. Not sure how many people entered them as so far that's not interested me... I may succumb to the need to race soon but currently think I'd rather hide in the middle of the pack that get over taken by people because I predicted a time the legs couldn't provide.

average_runner · 05-08-2020 12:36pm

robinph wrote: »

Have heard of a couple of races locally doing time trials with 15 seconds or so delay between runners starting. Not sure how many people entered them as so far that's not interested me... I may succumb to the need to race soon but currently think I'd rather hide in the middle of the pack that get over taken by people because I predicted a time the legs couldn't provide.

There was one of these out by Jack Whites last sat. Also a bike time trial.

Just saw it when doing my normal run. Wonder is it a regular thing?

Duzzie · 05-08-2020 1:29pm

average_runner wrote: »

There was one of these out by Jack Whites last sat. Also a bike time trial.

Just saw it when doing my normal run. Wonder is it a regular thing?

It was a St Benedicts Inbhear Mor AC club run. A one off club get together held under Athletics Ireland Covid19 rules. The Wicklow County 5k Championships will be held at the same place in a few weeks time. Not sure what the bike ride was though.

gucci · 06-08-2020 2:46pm

robinph wrote: »

Have heard of a couple of races locally doing time trials with 15 seconds or so delay between runners starting. Not sure how many people entered them as so far that's not interested me... I may succumb to the need to race soon but currently think I'd rather hide in the middle of the pack that get over taken by people because I predicted a time the legs couldn't provide.

I done a session with a friend last night who gave me a 90 second head-start, and still ended up beating me over 5k

it was with about 500m to go, but I was glad it was just one guy and not a stream of folks!

Miklos · 06-08-2020 4:59pm

Duzzie wrote: »

It was a St Benedicts Inbhear Mor AC club run. A one off club get together held under Athletics Ireland Covid19 rules. The Wicklow County 5k Championships will be held at the same place in a few weeks time. Not sure what the bike ride was though.

The bike ride was the Danny O’Shea Memorial 10 Mile TT, held there every year.

crisco10 · 07-08-2020 9:15am

No date for parkrun return, but the guidelines have been published.

https://volunteer.parkrun.com/principles/open-with-covid-19-management-system

NO massive changes that I can see, but no messing around at start/finish and increase the space as much as possible at start/finish.

Oh, and route can be up to 500m long to accomodate this.

robinph · 07-08-2020 9:19am

Hand sanitiser to be provided for volunteers and compulsory usage of the virtual volunteer app so everyone is using their own device.

Mostly the guidance is just don't be an idiot.

Annie get your Run · 07-08-2020 9:24am

They mention a few times that because everyone is required to register online they are able to quickly communicate with participants in the event of an outbreak, I didn't see any mention of how to deal with people that turn up without registering or that don't have their barcode with them or did I miss that?

I think it's probably the best they can do given the circumstances and I think the use of the virtual volunteer app is a good idea. Volunteers could wear a face mask too if they wanted to (I think I would if I was scanning). It'll be interesting to see when now...

robinph · 07-08-2020 9:30am

Guess they are classing anyone who doesn't register or bring their barcode as just other park users and nothing to do with them, even if they take a finish token.

opus · 07-08-2020 11:17am

Annie get your Run wrote: »

They mention a few times that because everyone is required to register online they are able to quickly communicate with participants in the event of an outbreak, I didn't see any mention of how to deal with people that turn up without registering or that don't have their barcode with them or did I miss that?

I think it's probably the best they can do given the circumstances and I think the use of the virtual volunteer app is a good idea. Volunteers could wear a face mask too if they wanted to (I think I would if I was scanning). It'll be interesting to see when now...

I was wondering about that part as well. Obviously no results without a barcode but imagine the person would still go through the finish line & get a token etc.

Annie get your Run · 07-08-2020 12:05pm

robinph wrote: »

Guess they are classing anyone who doesn't register or bring their barcode as just other park users and nothing to do with them, even if they take a finish token.

I don't think they can simply say 'nothing to do with us' as clearly these people turn up to run their event.

opus wrote: »

I was wondering about that part as well. Obviously no results without a barcode but imagine the person would still go through the finish line & get a token etc.

It's more about the idea that parkrun can contact 'everyone' that attended their run in the case of an outbreak. That's not strictly true, I guess RD's will have to reiterate the importance of being registered and having your barcode at the pre run briefing to make people more aware.

It won't stop the events from taking place, it's just an observation really. I'm sure HQ realise how many unknowns they have every week but maybe just decided not to cover that in their risk assessment.

DeepBlue · 07-08-2020 12:15pm

One issue with the guidelines is emailing participants in advance of an event re-opening. That assumes that participants have set their home parkrun correctly in their profile.

robinph · 07-08-2020 12:35pm

Annie get your Run wrote: »

I don't think they can simply say 'nothing to do with us' as clearly these people turn up to run their event.

It's more about the idea that parkrun can contact 'everyone' that attended their run in the case of an outbreak. That's not strictly true, I guess RD's will have to reiterate the importance of being registered and having your barcode at the pre run briefing to make people more aware.

It won't stop the events from taking place, it's just an observation really. I'm sure HQ realise how many unknowns they have every week but maybe just decided not to cover that in their risk assessment.

For the contact tracing it all still comes down to the individual telling the contact tracers where they have been.

If Bob went to a parkrun with their barcode, then on the Monday tests positive contact tracers ask them where they have been, they say parkrun, parkrun then work with the contact tracers to decide if they need to spam everyone who was at the event, just the volunteers, just the person who Bob was chatting too at the finish line...or nobody because Bob was wearing a mask before the start, finished first and went straight home again after getting their barcode scanned from a distance.

Or if Mary goes to the parkrun without her barcode, tests positive on the Monday, tells the contact tracers, they contact parkrun, same thinking as above comes into play as to if anyone or everyone needs notifying.

Now if Fred is a volunteer token hander outer and tests positive on the Monday and had a bit of a gammy hand so keeps on dropping the tokens and coughing on them before picking them up and apologising for a minute with each finisher, then the contact tracers get involved and want to contact everyone, then a few more people who handled the tokens test positive and they contact the entire event from that week... You then have 90% of the attendees getting notified (which is way higher than any contact tracing system is currently managing) and even Mary who hadn't brought her barcode along find out as her friends tell her or she sees something on Facebook and she then also knows that shes at risk and should be isolating.

The whole contact racing thing would be great if it was 100%, but it doesn't need to be anywhere near that and it certainly doesn't mean that everyone at a parkrun will need to isolate if one person happens to test positive on the following Monday.

average_runner · 08-08-2020 7:03am

DeepBlue wrote: »

One issue with the guidelines is emailing participants in advance of an event re-opening. That assumes that participants have set their home parkrun correctly in their profile.

Well that is the person own fault in fairness

robinph · 08-08-2020 8:21am

Don't think they will be emailing people based on their home event, they know that is a dodgy data set. Will be on a country wide basis and the number of people with their country set wrong will be much smaller, although it's far more complex to switch country than home event.

chinguetti · 08-08-2020 8:50am

Reading the material that was released yesterday, it looks to me like it is aimed at the UK parkruns so can't see someone like NPHET or the HSE being fully ok with the procedures in it, considering the UK authorities aren't doing a very good job of managing Covid from what I can see.

Most venues will probably have to change their start and finishing areas for the space required and also, the social aspect of parkrun will be no more. By talking to people afterwards is usually where most connections and volunteers come from so I think they're be an issue with recruiting volunteers to help out.

That along with the obvious issue of been at an event where you could have 100 plus people coming up to a scanner, breathing heavily on them and sweat dripping off the runner/walker, handing over a sweaty barcode that's kept in a pocket as they did 5k. I'd say parkruns will have trouble getting volunteers as I can't see how you get round some of the pinch points due to the new social norms, which are not any fault of parkrun.

anchor4208 · 08-08-2020 9:39am

chinguetti wrote: »

That along with the obvious issue of been at an event where you could have 100 plus people coming up to a scanner, breathing heavily on them and sweat dripping off the runner/walker, handing over a sweaty barcode that's kept in a pocket as they did 5k. I'd say parkruns will have trouble getting volunteers as I can't see how you get round some of the pinch points due to the new social norms, which are not any fault of parkrun.

I think this bit is manageable. The people doing the scanning can wear masks, and they don't have (and shouldn't) touch anything except for their own personal smart phone. The runner takes out their barcode and holds it at arms length in front of them. The scanner behaves similarly with their smart phone, so they're 1 meter + apart. The runner then puts their token into the container themselves.
It will work especially well if there are extra scanners - i.e. if runners who are faster than 23-24 minutes are encouraged to do a bit of scanning after they've caught their breath.

robinph · 08-08-2020 3:22pm

The scanning is a zero contact process, only contact between anyone and any item a runner touches is at the handing over of a token from the volunteer to the runners.

RentDayBlues · 08-08-2020 3:51pm

robinph wrote: »

The scanning is a zero contact process, only contact between anyone and any item a runner touches is at the handing over of a token from the volunteer to the runners.

Yeah, after listening to the podcast I’d be happy to volunteer again. We’ve been extremely careful due to relatives with health issues but this seems well thought out

Pawwed Rig · 08-08-2020 6:02pm

chinguetti wrote: »

sweat dripping off the runner/walker, handing over a sweaty barcode that's kept in a pocket as they did 5k. .

Sweat is not an issue afaik

Annie get your Run · 09-08-2020 6:05pm

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Sweat is not an issue afaik

Not in its own right but sweat often comes with its disgusting buddy, snot and if you wipe the sweat from your brow or face and catch a few droplets in the process, its a risk. Having said that I'd be happy to scan under the guidelines as I wouldn't have to touch the barcode or anything related to the runner and could wear a mask for added protection.

SligoBrewer · 11-08-2020 2:40pm

I was apprehensive but look, Tom laid it out well. I think what chinguetti is saying is really harsh, it does seem like a really well ad thought out process that can allow parkrun back while we still have covid within Ireland.

robinph · 11-08-2020 2:48pm

Looks like they might get a test of how things run with local lockdowns and changes to social distancing happening in New Zealand this weekend. Auckland is on a three day long increase in restrictions as they try to track down where a new set of cases have come from, and the rest of the country is now going to be operating with some social distancing in effect again.

Will be interesting to see if parkrun pull the plug on the whole country, just Auckland, or leave it for the government to make the call and trust people to be sensible whilst still parkrunning within the local rules.

Sunny Dayz · 12-08-2020 9:52am

I didn't know the podcast Free Weekly Timed was an official parkrun podcast.

Sunny Dayz · 12-08-2020 9:53am

robinph wrote: »

Looks like they might get a test of how things run with local lockdowns and changes to social distancing happening in New Zealand this weekend. Auckland is on a three day long increase in restrictions as they try to track down where a new set of cases have come from, and the rest of the country is now going to be operating with some social distancing in effect again.

Will be interesting to see if parkrun pull the plug on the whole country, just Auckland, or leave it for the government to make the call and trust people to be sensible whilst still parkrunning within the local rules.

I've just seen they have suspended on NZ parkrun events with immediate effect.

Anbocmorrua · 13-08-2020 5:00pm

I've never done the barcode scanning. Do you think it'd be possible to lash up a self-scanner from the scanning devices they use?

Ted_YNWA · 13-08-2020 5:11pm

Anbocmorrua wrote: »

I've never done the barcode scanning. Do you think it'd be possible to lash up a self-scanner from the scanning devices they use?

Should be able to do it, it would just be a case of fixing it to a stake or something like that.

I believe it can't do the finish token first & then personal one. I would foresee, however, a bottleneck with this kind of setup until people get used to doing it.

robinph · 13-08-2020 6:04pm

Could be done with the app I should think if you managed to stop the screen timing out. Think the app would be clever enough to sort out people scanning in the wrong order, but probably simpler to just use a person as the post you attach the phone to and they can keep the screen unlocked, make sure people scan the correct barcodes in the right order and make sure people drop the correct barcodes in the box on the floor.

TaurenDruid · 14-08-2020 12:03am

robinph wrote: »

Could be done with the app I should think if you managed to stop the screen timing out. Think the app would be clever enough to sort out people scanning in the wrong order, but probably simpler to just use a person as the post you attach the phone to and they can keep the screen unlocked, make sure people scan the correct barcodes in the right order and make sure people drop the correct barcodes in the box on the floor.

Yeah, I can it working with the app, but not the hardware scanners. Doing it with the app would effectively be contactless, which is a bonus. Could even request donation of old phones rather than someone having to use theirs.

Someone still needs to press the button on the hardware barcode scanners, though, so you've got everyone handling the scanner, rather than just one volunteer wearing gloves. And they can be finicky.

robinph · 14-08-2020 6:40am

Using the old hardware scanners is no longer allowed, and having old phones donated for scanning isn't either.

Don't throw the old scanners though as they will likely all be wanted to be donated back for use in prison parkruns.

Murph_D · 15-08-2020 1:21am

robinph wrote: »

Using the old hardware scanners is no longer allowed, and having old phones donated for scanning isn't either.

Don't throw the old scanners though as they will likely all be wanted to be donated back for use in prison parkruns.

Lots of good chat here.

The weak link is few volunteers participating. These are the people who know the practicality to the non (or occasional) volunteer’s idealism.

Not much appreciation of the nonrunning (volunteer) side so far.

robinph · 15-08-2020 8:34am

Murph_D wrote: »

Not much appreciation of the nonrunning (volunteer) side so far.

What issues do you see?

People who don't possess a smart phone not being able to do scanning as a volunteer is a change to the inclusiveness of parkrun, they are aware of that change though. For now that is a change that would be necessary to be able to get parkrun back at all.

Are there other things?

Dudda · 16-08-2020 9:26am

I've done barcode scanning 2 or 3 times and always used my own phone. Have done the timing a good bit more again with my own phone. I'd happily do scanning or whatever is required most Saturday mornings until Christmas if it meant getting Parkrun back for others. No problem taking one for the team.

TaurenDruid · 16-08-2020 10:58am

Dudda wrote: »

I've done barcode scanning 2 or 3 times and always used my own phone. Have done the timing a good bit more again with my own phone. I'd happily do scanning or whatever is required most Saturday mornings until Christmas if it meant getting Parkrun back for others. No problem taking one for the team.

Same. Lack of volunteers will not be a problem when parkrun resumes, I guarantee it!