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Training harder, sleeping better, eatting beyond clean but not losing weight

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  • 25-07-2020 11:35am
    #1
    theballz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭


    Hi All

    I am a 31 year old male, my weight since my late twenties has been an issue but I love training and have gone up and down in weight over the years.

    Cliffs: when I train I see results

    This time round however is different.
    I train 5 days a week (2 upper body workouts, 2 lower body, 1 full body,) burning around 500-600 kcals per session with avg heart rate between 120-130bpm

    I eat clean, salad for lunch and salad for dinner. Protein in both servings with a small portion of carbs. I train early in the morning before work and have 2 scoops of whey protein. I don’t have any breakfast outside of that

    I sleep well 5-6 hours an night and my stress levels are average (covid has been a challenge,) my wellness and mental health in general is good. I take some time to excerise my mind daily by reading and I meditate for about 20-30 mins a day.

    Overall, I feel better than ever before. I am lifting heavier than ever before, I am enjoying training more than I ever have and my body shape is changing (muscle growth.)

    However, with all of this in my mind. I cannot seem
    to shift the fat. I think my issue is I eat late at night, snack until 10pm (chicken fillets, chicken wrap.)

    Any ideas?


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    #2
    el Fenomeno
    Registered Users Posts: 3,114 ✭✭✭el Fenomeno


    Can't comment on the weight loss - though I imagine it may be as simple as your late night snacks are more calories than you think and result in you not hitting a calorie deficit.

    But 5-6 hours sleep a night is not "sleeping well", no matter how well you think you function or how used to it you are. However well you're doing now, you'll be doing much better if you added a couple of hours sleep each night.


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    #3
    Dial Hard
    Registered Users Posts: 13,403 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard


    If you feel the need to snack until 10pm you're not eating enough earlier in the day. Now, I don't subscribe to the whole "eating late means gaining weight" mantra - what you eat over a given period is far more important than when you eat it - but in my experience snackers and grazers tend to vastly underestimate a) how much they're actually eating and b) the calories therein.

    Try increasing your portion sizes at lunch and dinner and cutting out the snacks. And btw, eating "clean" doesn't have to equal salads twice a day every day. There's a world of curries, chillies, stews, casseroles, tagines etc. that you can make from scratch using entirely clean ingredients.


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    #4
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,556 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Do you track your calories?

    How are you getting 500-600 kcals burned per session?

    How are you gauging the fat level?


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    #5
    Cill94
    Registered Users Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭Cill94


    theballz wrote: »

    Overall, I feel better than ever before. I am lifting heavier than ever before, I am enjoying training more than I ever have and my body shape is changing (muscle growth.)

    Unless you are obese, I would suggest that you don't need to change much just yet. It's not uncommon for people in the early stages of training to gain weight while losing fat, as they are also gaining muscle.

    If you are overweight though, here are some things to consider:

    1. As someone pointed out, your sleep is poor. Bad sleep elevates stress hormones which will hinder fat loss. 8-9 hours is considered good.

    2. Highly doubt you're burning 500-600 cals in a session. That's a lot.

    3. You're taking in too many calories. If you're not losing fat it's as simple as that. I would be pretty sure there is at least one meal/snack that you're underestimating calories for. Use something like myfitnesspal to track calorie intake.

    4. Ensure you are weighing yourself under same conditions multiple times per week. I.e. First thing in the morning, same amount of clothes on, after using toilet, before eating a meal.

    Hope that helps.


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    #6
    bladespin
    Registered Users Posts: 7,334 ✭✭✭bladespin


    I wouldn’t count training calories unless deliberately trying to bulk, very easy to overestimate and varies a lot.


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    #7
    FaIIcon
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭FaIIcon


    You are not correctly tracking calories in and out if you are not losing weight, its that simple.


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    #8
    ittakestwo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    As well as the above try and cut your daily eating window to less than 8 hours. This includes all liquids apart from water. This helps burn fat.


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    #9
    Cill94
    Registered Users Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭Cill94


    ittakestwo wrote: »
    As well as the above try and cut your daily eating window to less than 8 hours. This includes all liquids apart from water. This helps burn fat.

    It doesn't.


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    #10
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,556 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    ittakestwo wrote: »
    As well as the above try and cut your daily eating window to less than 8 hours. This includes all liquids apart from water. This helps burn fat.

    Let's not over complicate a calorie deficit. Because that's all time restricted fasting is...a tool to manage a deficit.


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    #11
    ittakestwo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    It's not that complicated. Eat your food with in 8 hours and see your fat decrease.


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    #12
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,556 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    ittakestwo wrote: »
    It's not that complicated. Eat your food with in 8 hours and see your fat decrease.

    It's a calorie deficit. How you manage works differently for different people. Could it work in terms of cutting out the snacking at night? Yes. But so could having no window and not snacking at night.

    There's more than one way to skin a cat.


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    #13
    bladespin
    Registered Users Posts: 7,334 ✭✭✭bladespin


    ittakestwo wrote: »
    It's not that complicated. Eat your food with in 8 hours and see your fat decrease.

    No, it’s not that simple, eat below your calorific requirement and you loose weight, how you do that is up to you: intermittent fasting is one way but it’s no better than any other.
    If you eat above your requirements in that 8 hrs you will gain weight.


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    #14
    Cill94
    Registered Users Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭Cill94


    ittakestwo wrote: »
    It's not that complicated. Eat your food with in 8 hours and see your fat decrease.

    So by your logic I could just eat doughnuts and big macs all day but as long as it's within an 8 hour window I'll lose fat. That's not how it works.

    Meal timing has consistently been shown to have very, VERY little effect fat loss.


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    #15
    ittakestwo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    It's a calorie deficit. How you manage works differently for different people. Could it work in terms of cutting out the snacking at night? Yes. But so could having no window and not snacking at night.

    There's more than one way to skin a cat.

    Well no. All things equal. A person who eats their daily allowance in 8 hours will burn more fat than a person who eats the same amount in 14 hours.


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    #16
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,556 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    ittakestwo wrote: »
    Well no. All things equal. A person who eats their daily allowance in 8 hours will burn more fat than a person who eats the same amount in 14 hours.

    To a negligible degree in the real world.

    Far more pertinent things for the OP to concern themselves with.


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    #17
    ittakestwo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    No I found it to be significant, worth a try for the OP if they have hit a plateau too. They might react well to it. Would need to give a few weeks.


    Moving on. OP sometimes when you count calories you can leave out calories that you think is insignificant like milk in tea/coffee or Mayo and dressing salad on a salad. But they can add up to more than you think just in case they are being overlooked. Particularly milk, it is a disaster for people trying to lose weight.


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    #18
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,556 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    ittakestwo wrote: »
    No I found it to be significant, worth a try for the OP if they have hit a plateau too. They might react well to it. Would need to give a few weeks.


    Moving on. OP sometimes when you count calories you can leave out calories that you think is insignificant like milk in tea/coffee or Mayo and dressing salad on a salad. But they can add up to more than you think just in case they are being overlooked. Particularly milk, it is a disaster for people trying to lose weight.

    N = 1.

    Science suggests otherwise.

    Anyway, OP likely needs to look at more fundamental elements of their lifestyle than theit eating window


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    #19
    ittakestwo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    No studies on it show it helps. The Body gets more efficient at taking energy from fat. Anyway will be up to OP to try. No harm as especially they have hit a plateau and worth a shake it up.


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    #20
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,556 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    ittakestwo wrote: »
    No studies on it show it helps. The Body gets more efficient at taking energy from fat. Anyway will be up to OP to try. No harm as especially they have hit a plateau and worth a shake it up.

    Studies show what degree of 'help' though.

    But the OP likely needs to get a better handle on what they're eating first because they should have a better idea of the problem before they look at a tool to help fix it.

    I've no issue with time restricted eating as a tool but the major benefit, by far, for the general population, for whom it is effective, is that it helps them control their caloric intake.


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    #21
    bladespin
    Registered Users Posts: 7,334 ✭✭✭bladespin


    ittakestwo wrote: »
    No studies on it show it helps. The Body gets more efficient at taking energy from fat. Anyway will be up to OP to try. No harm as especially they have hit a plateau and worth a shake it up.

    Very little, and not much at all at this level (elite athlete maybe), please don't turn this into another IF/Keto etc battle, they all do the same thing - lower calorie intake which makes you burn fat - very simple.


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    #22
    calfmuscle
    Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭calfmuscle


    FaIIcon wrote: »
    You are not correctly tracking calories in and out if you are not losing weight, its that simple.

    Sorry but that is not true. Often people on a calorie deficit will stop losing weight and although this isn't totally understood it is common. Normally if the person sticks to the calorie deficit eventually the weight loss returns.

    I worked in a weight loss clinic before with a woman who ate nothing but a box of cereal a day then milk and supplements. She went 1 month in the middle of her weightloss journey without losing a pound. Thankfully she started losing again after this.


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    #23
    Cill94
    Registered Users Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭Cill94


    calfmuscle wrote: »
    Sorry but that is not true. Often people on a calorie deficit will stop losing weight and although this isn't totally understood it is common. Normally if the person sticks to the calorie deficit eventually the weight loss returns.

    I worked in a weight loss clinic before with a woman who ate nothing but a box of cereal a day then milk and supplements. She went 1 month in the middle of her weightloss journey without losing a pound. Thankfully she started losing again after this.

    Except people are notoriously bad at reporting and accurately recording their calorie intake - studies have shown this. If someone has hit a weight loss plateau it's more likely that they just need to create a larger deficit. It's unlikely that the laws of thermodynamics just stop working for a while.


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    #24
    Johnny_BravoIII
    Closed Accounts Posts: 308 ✭✭Johnny_BravoIII


    Get your thyroid checked. It could be a metabolism issue.


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    #25
    calfmuscle
    Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭calfmuscle


    Cill94 wrote: »
    Except people are notoriously bad at reporting and accurately recording their calorie intake - studies have shown this. If someone has hit a weight loss plateau it's more likely that they just need to create a larger deficit. It's unlikely that the laws of thermodynamics just stop working for a while.


    This lady was a hospital in patient who was bed bound.......no mistake in reporting....lots of articles on this phenomenon


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    #26
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,556 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    calfmuscle wrote: »
    This lady was a hospital in patient who was bed bound.......no mistake in reporting....lots of articles on this phenomenon

    The the CICO is a model that accounts for enough to make it meaningful for the vast majority but doesn't capture all the complexity.

    That case is probably one of those outliers. It doesn't mean the CICO model is redundant


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    #27
    SimplyBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 49 ✭SimplyBlue


    Don't use the calories you think you worked off training to add onto your daily allowance. As someone said above these are usually over estimated.

    Calories burned training should be a boost to fat loss and not really added to have another snack etc


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    #28
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,060 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    calfmuscle wrote: »
    This lady was a hospital in patient who was bed bound.......no mistake in reporting....lots of articles on this phenomenon
    A whole box of cereal with milk plus supplements doesn't sound like a huge deficit. Unless you mean single serve. :confused:

    How was he energy expenditure counted?
    How was fluid retention and fat mass measured?
    etc, etc.

    There are a huge number of variables at play. People are very quick to assume that one thing was or wasn't happening.


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    #29
    calfmuscle
    Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭calfmuscle


    Mellor wrote: »
    A whole box of cereal with milk plus supplements doesn't sound like a huge deficit. Unless you mean single serve. :confused:

    How was he energy expenditure counted?
    How was fluid retention and fat mass measured?
    etc, etc.

    There are a huge number of variables at play. People are very quick to assume that one thing was or wasn't happening.

    It was a single serve and the diet was monitored by the hospital dieticians. She was on less than 600 calories a day. This woman was over 300kg but had lost 60kg then stopped losing despite daily exercise and calorie deficit. Its more common than u think. As i said after 4 weeks she started to lose weight again.


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    #30
    Cill94
    Registered Users Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭Cill94


    calfmuscle wrote: »
    It was a single serve and the diet was monitored by the hospital dieticians. She was on less than 600 calories a day. This woman was over 300kg but had lost 60kg then stopped losing despite daily exercise and calorie deficit. Its more common than u think. As i said after 4 weeks she started to lose weight again.

    Sorry didn't realise it was someone being monitored that closely.

    I think fair to say though that 300kg makes her a major outlier with a very different set of metabolic issues to the average person.


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    #31
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,060 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    calfmuscle wrote: »
    It was a single serve and the diet was monitored by the hospital dieticians. She was on less than 600 calories a day. This woman was over 300kg but had lost 60kg then stopped losing despite daily exercise and calorie deficit. Its more common than u think. As i said after 4 weeks she started to lose weight again.
    Her body would have been used more than 600cals. Just for basic functions, even when bedridden. That energy had to come from somewhere, or else it defies laws of physics.

    Not losing weight isn’t the same as not burning fat. Especially at 300kg, there could be water retention affecting the appearance on the scales for example.


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