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Training harder, sleeping better, eatting beyond clean but not losing weight

13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭theballz


    Mellor wrote: »
    If a body gets more efficient at taking energy from fat (or from food) that means that it loses less energy in the process. Therefore it needs to burn less fat. I don’t think efficient is the word you mean. As increased efficiency would hinder weight loss.

    So, let’s say you train your body to get increased energy from body fat. What do you propose happens to energy from food? Where does it go instead.

    You are just throwing out buzz-words. None of the things you are describing would lead to increased weight loss without an accompanying decrease in energy intake. It still comes back to energy balance, always.

    I agree with both of you, however, your bold wording is probably something that I have not mentioned, I am certainly more drained of energy throughout the day primarily between 10am-12pm, the odd thing is however, I train at 7am and I have more energy then ever.

    Again, I’m no expert I can only say what works for me. Reading both your posts is educational tbh


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,588 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    ittakestwo wrote: »
    No it gets more efficient as it is able to do it better.
    Yes.
    Which would reduce metabolic needs and therefore weight loss.[/quote]
    I got this tip when training for marathons. I use to "hit the wall" this is basically when your body has depleted its carb store and cant get take energy from its fat store quick enough to keep you going.

    However a tip I got was to run every second long run on an empty stomach. Get up in morning and have no breakfast and go for a run. At first this made no sense. And I felt like **** and would do a terrible time on these runs but it trains your body to take energy from fat. As you do this more often your body gets more efficient at this and gives you energy quicker in situations than if you're not trained.

    You are referring to depleting glycogen stores.
    I run sub 3 hour marathons now and dont hit the wall. Could run a marathon without even taking food on now. Body has got more efficient at taking its energy from fat. If you have not trained to this when your body runs out of its carb you're gone..
    As I suggested above, your are not referring to efficiency. You are referring to output capacity.
    And yes, carb restricted training will increase fat metabolism. That’s how keto works.

    But the energy used doesn’t change, as you claimed.
    Body loves repetition. Doing something regularly and it will start recognises what your doing and it adapts to it. Long windows without food will help body to take energy from fat. It will take energy from fat quicker than if you're not trained.

    Except that if you are eating the same food in less hours. Your energy from food is the same, and your glycogen stored is the same, and your body is taking the same energy from fat. So it’s under the exact same stress, so nothing changes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 746 ✭✭✭calfmuscle


    This is obviously in no way scientific but just an A side. I only eat between 11 and 8 as insulin resistant in the morning. Its in no way keeping me skinny!!! Siggggggh :(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭Cill94


    theballz wrote: »
    I agree with both of you, however, your bold wording is probably something that I have not mentioned, I am certainly more drained of energy throughout the day primarily between 10am-12pm, the odd thing is however, I train at 7am and I have more energy then ever.

    Again, I’m no expert I can only say what works for me. Reading both your posts is educational tbh

    By energy he means calories, not how you feel.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 32,277 ✭✭✭✭Mars Bar


    calfmuscle wrote: »
    This is obviously in no way scientific but just an A side. I only eat between 11 and 8 as insulin resistant in the morning. Its in no way keeping me skinny!!! Siggggggh :(

    Well you won't if you're not eating in a calorie deficit.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 908 ✭✭✭Jayesdiem


    There is some pile of garbage written in here, amongst one or two sane voices. That’s what made the old forum more exciting I suppose. Anyway, to those who have told you, quite simply, that you need a calorie deficit and no more - those are the ones to listen to. Everything else was just pseudoscience or, even worse, personal anecdote. Even if you were counting the cals wrong on a daily basis, that wouldn’t have mattered as long as you were counting them wrong, in a different way, every day - ie you count the 300 cal choc bar as 200 one day and 400 the next. If you count it as 400 every day, despite being incorrect, your inaccuracy wouldn’t have mattered as long as you were reliably inaccurate. I suspect the consistency with which you accurately recorded your caloric intake, whether correct or incorrect, improved. And on the sleep issue, don’t buy the “5 hours isn’t enough” horse dung. If you feel good every day it is enough and the 8 hour number can be disregarded as a junk average from years of research on the topic. Sleep is the same as any other process in the human body. Some need lots, some need a little. It all translates to this simple average that is representative of the wider population, but not necessarily any particular individual. Ask people where they got this 8 hour figure and what the level variance of the statistic is. If they can’t tell you, they simply heard it from someone else and are just parroting it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 746 ✭✭✭calfmuscle


    Mars Bar wrote: »
    Well you won't if you're not eating in a calorie deficit.

    That was kinda my point....:D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,588 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    theballz wrote: »
    I agree with both of you, however, your bold wording is probably something that I have not mentioned, I am certainly more drained of energy throughout the day primarily between 10am-12pm, the odd thing is however, I train at 7am and I have more energy then ever.

    By energy I meant energy intake, ie food/calories.
    But what you describe is normal. On a reasonable deficit you'd expect energy levels to dip a bit to preserve energy a bit.
    As you drop calories further it will dip more. There's a limit to how much fat you can burn per day, so decreasing beyond that will affect weight loss more than energy levels.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 929 ✭✭✭radiotrickster


    Jayesdiem wrote: »
    And on the sleep issue, don’t buy the “5 hours isn’t enough” horse dung. If you feel good every day it is enough and the 8 hour number can be disregarded as a junk average from years of research on the topic. Sleep is the same as any other process in the human body. Some need lots, some need a little.

    Just want to chip in on this as I'd been following the thread due to being in the same situation (eating better, less calories, exercising more and not losing weight).

    The past week, I've seen loads online about how not sleeping enough doesn't give the body all the time it needs to lose weight (or something like that).

    Usually I go to sleep around 12:30am, wake up at 7. I went to sleep an hour earlier last night and I've been pure exhausted since I woke up. I'll try sleeping extra for the rest of the week but honestly I think 6.5 hours is right for me!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭Cill94


    The past week, I've seen loads online about how not sleeping enough doesn't give the body all the time it needs to lose weight (or something like that).

    Usually I go to sleep around 12:30am, wake up at 7. I went to sleep an hour earlier last night and I've been pure exhausted since I woke up. I'll try sleeping extra for the rest of the week but honestly I think 6.5 hours is right for me!

    Poor sleep is associated with an increase in stress hormones, which will impede fat loss.

    As with anything, quantity and quality matter for sleep. Quality is dependant on how many sleep cycles you get in a night and what phase of the cycle you wake up in.

    If you wake in the less deep phases of the sleep cycle, you will feel better than if you had slept longer but woke up during heavy REM sleep.

    I'm no sleep expert though, so I may stand corrected by someone more knowledgable.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,802 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Slight aside but this Joe Rogan podcast is largely about sleep and is really interesting.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,277 ✭✭✭Bandara


    Slight aside but this Joe Rogan podcast is largely about sleep and is really interesting.


    I presume your talking about the podcast he did with the brilliant Matthew Walker, the foremost authority of sleep in the world.

    An absolutely fascinating and essential listen,

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pwaWilO_Pig

    Enjoy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,328 ✭✭✭the baby bull elephant


    Bandara wrote: »
    I presume your talking about the podcast he did with the brilliant Matthew Walker, the foremost authority of sleep in the world.

    An absolutely fascinating and essential listen,

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pwaWilO_Pig

    Enjoy.

    https://guzey.com/books/why-we-sleep/

    That one?

    I admit I have no real interest or knowledge of Walker but I remember coming across that criticism because it is quite... thorough.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,802 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Dan Pardi was also on one of the earlier Sigma Nutrition podcasts as well.

    https://sigmanutrition.com/episode38/

    There's a transcript there as well.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 80 ✭✭scilover


    theballz wrote: »
    Hi All

    I am a 31 year old male, my weight since my late twenties has been an issue but I love training and have gone up and down in weight over the years.

    Cliffs: when I train I see results

    This time round however is different.
    I train 5 days a week (2 upper body workouts, 2 lower body, 1 full body,) burning around 500-600 kcals per session with avg heart rate between 120-130bpm

    I eat clean, salad for lunch and salad for dinner. Protein in both servings with a small portion of carbs. I train early in the morning before work and have 2 scoops of whey protein. I don’t have any breakfast outside of that

    I sleep well 5-6 hours an night and my stress levels are average (covid has been a challenge,) my wellness and mental health in general is good. I take some time to excerise my mind daily by reading and I meditate for about 20-30 mins a day.

    Overall, I feel better than ever before. I am lifting heavier than ever before, I am enjoying training more than I ever have and my body shape is changing (muscle growth.)

    However, with all of this in my mind. I cannot seem
    to shift the fat. I think my issue is I eat late at night, snack until 10pm (chicken fillets, chicken wrap.)

    Any ideas?


    I got you, I also face the same kind of problem. Why is it the problem actually?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,386 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    If sleep or intermittent fasting effect weight are farmers taking advantage of it? alarm clocks waking up cows all hours of the night so they don't lose weight, and/or making sure they are fed their set amount of food in small amounts all day long so they do not lose weight by any fasting mechanism.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭theballz


    theballz wrote: »
    -Update-

    Thanks to all for the advise.
    I made some adjustments to my diet 7 days ago and I have lost 4.2kg.

    In short, I have keep the diet the same, excerise the same but began intermittent fasting. 16 hour fast daily - working wonders and delighted with the early results

    - Update -

    6 weeks into training

    Total weight loss: 12.4kg

    Plan: Workout 6 days a week (5 days - 7 am in gym) burning 700-850 calories per session (as per apple watch), Saturday Pilates.
    Overall burn between 1600-1800 calories a day, between workout and walking (12k steps average.) Calorie intake for August was 1,600

    Strategy for Sept:
    - Strict Calorie intake (1400)
    - Including cardio finisher with gym workout (avg. BPM per workout 130)
    - Strict 7 day intermittent fast (continue)

    Goal for Sept:
    - Loss 4-5kg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,746 ✭✭✭atilladehun


    Brilliant stuff.

    What does 1600 cals look like for you?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭theballz


    Brilliant stuff.

    What does 1600 cals look like for you?

    Well I use an apple watch to measure, i give myself a 40% delta on inaccuracy reading. So I am for 2,100-2,000 cals a day on the watch.

    In the morning in the gym I will burn 1000-1.2k calories, I do a HIIT session (this morning was focused on benching, pull ups and push excerises for about an hour.) Then I do 30 minute cardio (assault bike and rowing machine.)

    I try to do 14k steps throughout the day, my average is 12.2k and ultimately that will roll up to the 2.1/2.2k (1.6k reality that I give myself.)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,588 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    theballz wrote: »
    I try to do 14k steps throughout the day, my average is 12.2k and ultimately that will roll up to the 2.1/2.2k (1.6k reality that I give myself.)
    Where are you getting the notion of 1600 being reality?

    Your calorie burn couldn’t possibly be that low.
    Do you wear the watch 24/7?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭theballz


    Mellor wrote: »
    Where are you getting the notion of 1600 being reality?

    Your calorie burn couldn’t possibly be that low.
    Do you wear the watch 24/7?

    Becasue Apple have a 40% error delta, Fitbit is the most accurate - it's not a notion.

    I wear my watch 20-23 hours a day. I wear it as I sleep and charge it for an hour or two in the evenings around 8-9pm.

    Why couldn't my "calorie burn be that low?"


  • Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Edison Curved Rectangle


    theballz wrote: »
    Becasue Apple have a 40% error delta, Fitbit is the most accurate - it's not a notion.

    I wear my watch 20-23 hours a day. I wear it as I sleep and charge it for an hour or two in the evenings around 8-9pm.

    Why couldn't my "calorie burn be that low?"

    If i sit on the couch all day and don't move, my calorie burn is 1800+
    It seems very unlikely that's your 24 hour calories
    have you tried a few tdee calcs to get a rough guide?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭theballz


    bluewolf wrote: »
    If i sit on the couch all day and don't move, my calorie burn is 1800+
    It seems very unlikely that's your 24 hour calories
    have you tried a few tdee calcs to get a rough guide?

    I can't speak for anyone else mate, this strategy is working for me and the weighting scales is saying the same.


  • Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Edison Curved Rectangle


    theballz wrote: »
    I can't speak for anyone else mate, this strategy is working for me and the weighting scales is saying the same.

    just curious, your progress is brilliant obviously and not saying you should change anything


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 32,277 ✭✭✭✭Mars Bar


    bluewolf wrote: »
    If i sit on the couch all day and don't move, my calorie burn is 1800+
    It seems very unlikely that's your 24 hour calories
    have you tried a few tdee calcs to get a rough guide?

    Jesus, lucky you! If I st on the couch all day and don't move my calorie burn according to my fitbit would be between 1,100 and 1,200!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,499 ✭✭✭alanhiggyno1


    get yourself a myfitness pal account.excellent for losing weight and connects to apple watch/fitbit etc.does absoutely everthing and has a in built barcode scanner to scan everything u eat and is 100 percent accurate


  • Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Edison Curved Rectangle


    Mars Bar wrote: »
    Jesus, lucky you! If I st on the couch all day and don't move my calorie burn according to my fitbit would be between 1,100 and 1,200!

    Jaysus maybe I'm a weirdo so :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,588 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    theballz wrote: »
    Becasue Apple have a 40% error delta, Fitbit is the most accurate - it's not a notion.
    I’ve heard of errors where apple didn’t consider a person weight or the way it tracks active vrs resting cals. But 40% would be massive.

    Although 2100 to 1600 is 24% drop.
    I wear my watch 20-23 hours a day. I wear it as I sleep and charge it for an hour or two in the evenings around 8-9pm.
    I was just checking if sleep calories were included. Appears they are.
    Why couldn't my "calorie burn be that low?"
    1600 calories burn would be about right for a 50kg female training as much as you. (I don’t know what you weigh, but assume it’s not 50kg)

    Quite simply. If you were only burning 1600-1800 and eating 1600. Then you wouldn’t be losing weight, maybe only 500g for the month.
    But you’ve lost 8kg in August, (I think). Which is huge. And relates to about a 2000 cal deficit.
    By any chance is the Apple Watch displaying “active calories” rather than total?


    Regardless of real numbers, what you’re doing is working. I certainly don’t see the point in decreasing intake further. There is a limit to how much fat you can lose, after that your just losing muscle.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,588 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Mars Bar wrote: »
    Jesus, lucky you! If I st on the couch all day and don't move my calorie burn according to my fitbit would be between 1,100 and 1,200!
    If don’t wear my Fitbit for a day, the app says 1740 cals. that’s about what I’d burn if I stayed in bed.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 32,277 ✭✭✭✭Mars Bar


    Mellor wrote: »
    If don’t wear my Fitbit for a day, the app says 1740 cals. that’s about what I’d burn if I stayed in bed.

    I am a 4ft 11 and 44kg female in fairness...


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