Covid 19 Part XX-26,644 in ROI (1,772 deaths) 6,064 in NI (556 deaths) (08/08)Read OP

JP Liz V1 · 27-07-2020 07:47PM

US2 wrote: »

Martin says people on pup should be actively seeking work. These people have jobs don't they, and most will be back at work on August 10th?

Would MM employ me as a junior minister?

YellowBucket · 27-07-2020 07:47PM

is_that_so wrote: »

Is this what contact tracers do? I thought it was more of a case that "you may be a close contact to someone who's infected, you should get tested" approach. PUP, I would have thought, is more to do with DEASP or Revenue.

Well based on what the government has been coming out with today, it would look rather like they're pulling data from anywhere and everywhere to identify welfare recipients who might have been abroad so they can cut them off. So, that's inevitably going to result in a problem with honest information to contact tracers.

stephenjmcd · 27-07-2020 07:49PM

US2 wrote: »

Martin says people on pup should be actively seeking work. These people have jobs don't they, and most will be back at work on August 10th?

Its a mess, some are on it because their work is closed due to government restrictions or running at reduced capacity so they have to stay on it.

Appearently they don't have to be seeking work if they have a job to go back to.

All as clear as mud

stephenjmcd · 27-07-2020 07:50PM

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Would MM employ me as a junior minister?

will you take the 10% pay cut they've announced this evening ??

Must have thought they had to do something after the bad PR

is_that_so · 27-07-2020 07:51PM

YellowBucket wrote: »

Well based on what the government has been coming out with today, it would look rather like they're pulling data from anywhere and everywhere to identify welfare recipients who might have been abroad so they can cut them off. So, that's inevitably going to result in a problem with honest information to contact tracers.

I don't think it's contact tracers, it's more likely to be welfare inspectors and that's what they do.

https://www.irishpost.com/news/covid-19-unemployment-payments-will-be-stopped-if-recipients-caught-travelling-abroad-189861

I also found a link going back to 2013 on them so probably not a new thing.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/over-120-cases-of-welfare-fraud-detected-at-airports-1.1614317

Away With The Fairies · 27-07-2020 08:01PM

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Would MM employ me as a junior minister?

I wouldn't mind the pay they get to take naps.

YellowBucket · 27-07-2020 08:03PM

is_that_so wrote: »

I don't think it's contact tracers, it's more likely to be welfare inspectors and that's what they do.

https://www.irishpost.com/news/covid-19-unemployment-payments-will-be-stopped-if-recipients-caught-travelling-abroad-189861

I also found a link going back to 2013 on them so probably not a new thing.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/over-120-cases-of-welfare-fraud-detected-at-airports-1.1614317

That's the problem though. They've made it clear as mud!

People on various forums are saying the locator forms are being used for this purpose for example.

castletownman · 27-07-2020 08:03PM

Don't go on fecking holiday then if you don't want your PUP cut.

I have no sympathy for them at all.

And from experience, anyone who complains about the authorities having access to personal details either have something to hide, are wannabe Tony Sopranos or are just wasters.

ACitizenErased · 27-07-2020 08:04PM

castletownman wrote: »

Don't go on fecking holiday then if you don't want your PUP cut.

I have no sympathy for them at all.

And from experience, anyone who complains about the authorities having access to personal details either have something to hide, are wannabe Tony Sopranos or are just wasters.

So I can’t leave the country to visit sick family members? Cheers.

YellowBucket · 27-07-2020 08:05PM

castletownman wrote: »

Don't go on fecking holiday then if you don't want your PUP cut.

I have no sympathy for them at all.

And from experience, anyone who complains about the authorities having access to personal details either have something to hide, are wannabe Tony Sopranos or are just wasters.

That's what they said in East Germany too btw.

Happy enough to just have your accounts browsed, emails trawled through, browsing history, boards PMs, etc?

I mean if you've nothing to hide, you should be quite ok with your Tinder history for example being handed over to the HSE.

There's a limit to this stuff and it needs to be very transparent, or it will end up being very counterproductive. All they're managing to do today is burn through a lot of goodwill.

castletownman · 27-07-2020 08:07PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

So I can’t leave the country to visit sick family members? Cheers.

If it can be proved that its an essential journey, of course you can.

But if an Anto is going off on his holliers for a week, then the likes of that should be subject to censure.

thelad95 · 27-07-2020 08:08PM

There is something about the emergency Covid payment being stopped that doesn't sit well with me.

Was this an explicit term of receiving the payment that you have to stay in the country?

How are they linking passports to PPSN numbers?

How do the immigration authorities have information on who is receiving the Covid payment?

This has a scandal written all over it.

ACitizenErased · 27-07-2020 08:08PM

castletownman wrote: »

If it can be proved that its an essential journey, of course you can.

But if an Anto is going off on his holliers for a week, then the likes of that should be subject to censure.

According to the government because I lost my job and am claiming I cannot leave the country.
Do you realise people could have holidays booked prior to losing jobs btw or are you just generalising on purpose?

is_that_so · 27-07-2020 08:09PM

YellowBucket wrote: »

That's the problem though. They've made it clear as mud!

People on various forums are saying the locator forms are being used for this purpose for example.

It strikes me that the contact tracers are being maligned here. I've no idea what powers welfare people have for fraud detection but you'd expect it to go as far digging up addresses for people. That enough in its own right to nail someone.

ACitizenErased · 27-07-2020 08:10PM

thelad95 wrote: »

There is something about the emergency Covid payment being stopped that doesn't sit well with me.

Was this an explicit term of receiving the payment that you have to stay in the country?

How are they linking passports to PPSN numbers?

How do the immigration authorities have information on who is receiving the Covid payment?

This has a scandal written all over it.

I have a friend who’s a data protection officer for a large company and he believes its a complete data protection breach.

YellowBucket · 27-07-2020 08:10PM

I'm also baffled at this statement by Martin that people on the pandemic payment should be job seeking. Wasn't the whole point of this to furlough employees so that businesses could rapidly return to normality?

Is his statement basically an acceptance that a lot of businesses are now basically gone permanently and people should start looking for new jobs? Or are they ending the scheme and turning into into the jobseekers benefit, in which case they need to update the unemployment stats accordingly.

I mean is Martin basically saying abandon your existing employer at this stage. That's basically how it came across.

US2 · 27-07-2020 08:10PM

Besides the leaving the country part, why would someone who has a job be looking for work. Does he expect bar workers to find employment for 2 weeks?

Did teachers get the PUP or were they paid throughout the lockdown ?

is_that_so · 27-07-2020 08:12PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

So I can’t leave the country to visit sick family members? Cheers.

I think you can probably make a case to welfare afore you go! That's not for pleasure. You are allowed holidays while on benefits, but not by the looks of things on PUP.

is_that_so · 27-07-2020 08:12PM

US2 wrote: »

Besides the leaving the country part, why would someone who has a job be looking for work. Does he expect bar workers to find employment for 2 weeks?

Did teachers get the PUP or were they paid throughout the lockdown ?

They were paid.

thelad95 · 27-07-2020 08:13PM

castletownman wrote: »

If it can be proved that its an essential journey, of course you can.

But if an Anto is going off on his holliers for a week, then the likes of that should be subject to censure.

Okay fine, but it sounds like this was being done completely covertly.

Have these people had a chance to be quizzed on where they are going? Were they ever warned that any non essential travel could result in the emergency Covid payment being stopped?

Was it an explicit term of the Covid payment that this could happen?

igCorcaigh · 27-07-2020 08:14PM

YellowBucket wrote: »

I'm also baffled at this statement by Martin that people on the pandemic payment should be job seeking. Wasn't the whole point of this to furlough employees so that businesses could rapidly return to normality?

Is his statement basically an acceptance that a lot of businesses are now basically gone permanently and people should start looking for new jobs? Or are they ending the scheme and turning into into the jobseekers benefit, in which case they need to update the unemployment stats accordingly.

I mean is Martin basically saying abandon your existing employer at this stage. That's basically how it came across.

The PUP does not keep the link between employer and employee, the subsidy scheme does.

Santy2015 · 27-07-2020 08:15PM

Now this probably isn’t the number but wouldn’t be far off it considering the amount of hospitalisations over the 2 weeks.
https://twitter.com/juneshannon/status/1287807910869970945?s=21

is_that_so · 27-07-2020 08:16PM

thelad95 wrote: »

There is something about the emergency Covid payment being stopped that doesn't sit well with me.

Was this an explicit term of receiving the payment that you have to stay in the country?

How are they linking passports to PPSN numbers?

How do the immigration authorities have information on who is receiving the Covid payment?

This has a scandal written all over it.

All they'd need is an address. It's not exactly something people can challenge, given the nature of PUP. They'd also find it easier now to look more closely at those still getting it.

ultrawoman · 27-07-2020 08:17PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Can we stop pay of anyone on state payroll for 2 weeks,if they go on hols??

Gaurds/nurses/teachers etc.....its hyprocrisy otherwise,surely??

Public Service are advised by employers not to go abroad, but if they go against advice and travel to a 'non-green list' country, they have to take 2 weeks of annual leave on return or 2 weeks of unpaid leave.

ACitizenErased · 27-07-2020 08:18PM

De Gascun said tonight they’re looking at child-friendly ways of testing as the swab isn’t particularly nice for kids

stephenjmcd · 27-07-2020 08:22PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

De Gascun said tonight they’re looking at child-friendly ways of testing as the swab isn’t particularly nice for kids

Whats available that would be more friendly?

Haven't seen blood tests but I could be wrong and admittedly I was away for the last week and barely paid any attention to covid related news

Spanish Eyes · 27-07-2020 08:25PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

So I can’t leave the country to visit sick family members? Cheers.

Come on, no one is saying that at all. That would be essential travel IMV.

The talk of the town today anyway is the dolers and little PUPs who dare take a holiday ABROAD at taxpayer expense.

Everyone should stay here and spend their money here, unless as you say it is a mission of mercy or some other essential travel issue.

ACitizenErased · 27-07-2020 08:26PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Whats available that would be more friendly?

Haven't seen blood tests but I could be wrong and admittedly I was away for the last week and barely paid any attention to covid related news

Saliva tests are done in most US states.

ACitizenErased · 27-07-2020 08:26PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Come on, no one is saying that at all. That would be essential travel IMV.

The talk of the town today anyway is the dolers and little PUPs who dare take a holiday ABROAD at taxpayer expense.

Everyone should stay here and spend their money here, unless as you say it is a mission of mercy or some other essential travel issue.

It doesn’t make a difference what the reason is

JP Liz V1 · 27-07-2020 08:28PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

will you take the 10% pay cut they've announced this evening ??

Must have thought they had to do something after the bad PR

I thought junior ministers got a pay increase

I'd work for half the minister's salaries and perks

This "new" government is making a rights balls of everything

Covid 19 Part XX-26,644 in ROI (1,772 deaths) 6,064 in NI (556 deaths) (08/08)Read OP

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