Parents with underlying conditions and schools

isup · 25-07-2020 6:34pm #1

As a parent with an underlying condition I would be worried about my kids going back to school. Does anyone else have worries for themselves or grandparents? I'm immunocompromised and have been caucious so far. I know the kids need school so will probably be sending them when the schools open. But I see the majority of people out and about acting like this has gone away and just doing what they want.
It doesn't seem to be spoken about.

mirrorwall14 · 25-07-2020 6:36pm

I’m hugely concerned. The schools are overcrowded. If they open at full capacity it makes a total mockery of social distancing. Take a look. These are just some schools on Facebook. Just look at those desks. How do you do this with social distancing? Masks won’t matter much when the students can barely fit in a room on a normal day....

mirrorwall14 · 25-07-2020 6:37pm

And for ****s and giggles, our government are paying 25-50k a day to protect themselves....

(If anyone can tell me how to embed a pic from a mobile I’ll happily do it)

isup · 25-07-2020 6:50pm

It does make me think that when they go back it makes any all the standard precautions pointless. If they did it right at least there's be a chance . That along with the other parents and family's being responsible.

mirrorwall14 · 25-07-2020 6:52pm

isup wrote: »

It does make me think that when they go back it makes any all the standard precautions pointless. If they did it right at least there's be a chance . That along with the other parents and family's being responsible.

It makes a complete mockery of all the hard work everyone has done. What’s the difference between 30 18 year olds in Sixth year and 30 18 year olds in college? Apparently one needs social distancing and the other doesn’t

Postgrad10 · 25-07-2020 7:02pm

I hope there are provisions for immuno compromised children to receive home tuition.

Then again will there be provision for immune comprised teachers ?

What about the teachers coming in to homes to teach and spreading to parents /grandparents / children etc?

I’m scared for everyone.

DSN · 25-07-2020 7:09pm

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

It makes a complete mockery of all the hard work everyone has done. What’s the difference between 30 18 year olds in Sixth year and 30 18 year olds in college? Apparently one needs social distancing and the other doesn’t

I think it's more that remote learning doesn't work for primary or secondary school kids where as they think remote 3rd level lends itself better to a mix of online & face to face. And they not suddenly gonna build twice as many classrooms n & teachers to accommodate SD in schools.

Charles Babbage · 25-07-2020 7:11pm

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

It makes a complete mockery of all the hard work everyone has done. What’s the difference between 30 18 year olds in Sixth year and 30 18 year olds in college? Apparently one needs social distancing and the other doesn’t

There is a some difference, in that the large numbers of students in college from all over the country and internationally is even more dangerous and than the same set of leaving certs from the same district sitting together each day in a school.

However, there is a strong case that procedures should not be the same for national schools and leaving cert classes, even Sweden closed its schools for over 16s.

SCOOP 64 · 25-07-2020 7:13pm

My sons school has 700 pupils and wouldn't be one of the largest how would it be possible to social distance, reach the stage now were economy comes first health second ,the pubs will reopen the 10th August regardless of numbers.

isup · 25-07-2020 7:14pm

Postgrad10 wrote: »

I hope there are provisions for immuno compromised children to receive home tuition.

Then again will there be provision for immune comprised teachers ?

What about the teachers coming in to homes to teach and spreading to parents /grandparents / children etc?

I’m scared for everyone.

And the teachers partners / parents . They have lives outside of work.

isup · 25-07-2020 7:17pm

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

My sons school has 700 pupils and wouldn't be one of the largest how would it be possible to social distance, reach the stage now were economy comes first health second ,the pubs will reopen the 10th August regardless of numbers.

It seems like everyone has to fend for themselves now. And alot but not all of the people who aren't high risk arnt taking it seriously. Which really makes you feel alienated.

mirrorwall14 · 25-07-2020 7:17pm

Charles Babbage wrote: »

There is a some difference, in that the large numbers of students in college from all over the country and internationally is even more dangerous and than the same set of leaving certs from the same district sitting together each day in a school.

However, there is a strong case that procedures should not be the same for national schools and leaving cert classes, even Sweden closed its schools for over 16s.

Your second paragraph is more what I mean to be fair. 30 students plus teacher plus or minus an SNA in a room you couldn’t swing a cat in is a ludicrous proposal right now imo. But I totally see your point on the students from all over the country.

heldel00 · 25-07-2020 7:22pm

ISUP i know it's similar to putting a plaster on a broken leg, in terms of protection, but there is a 24 hour hand sanitiser called ZOONO that i will be buying for when schools start back

robinph · 25-07-2020 7:28pm

Having a couple of conditions that increase my chances of coming off badly if I get the virus, but the age and gender are still bigger risk factors, I was mildly concerned before sending the kid back to school in the UK. But the benefits far outweigh the risks for me both for the kid and all of our mental health.

Have been very happy with the measures that the school was doing on reopening, and their altered plans for September are almost as good, but in dealing with much higher numbers back then things will change slightly. They are still doing everything possible to reduce cross over between different classes and year groups.

The biggest risk for the adults I think is still from them going into work and commuting rather than from their kid who caught it from another kid who caught it from their parents. The chain required before it reaches me, who works from home, is enough other people with limited contacts and the school where they will be paying close attention to the kids coughs and sneezes such that I feel relatively secure.

I'm limited in contact with others and that is the main protection for each of us.

mirrorwall14 · 25-07-2020 7:30pm

robinph wrote: »

Having a couple of conditions that increase my chances of coming off badly if I get the virus, but the age and gender are still bigger risk factors, I was mildly concerned before sending the kid back to school in the UK. But the benefits far outweigh the risks for me both for the kid and all of our mental health.

Have been very happy with the measures that the school was doing on reopening, and their altered plans for September are almost as good, but in dealing with much higher numbers back then things will change slightly. They are still doing everything possible to reduce cross over between different classes and year groups.

The biggest risk for the adults I think is still from them going into work and commuting rather than from their kid who caught it from another kid who caught it from their parents. The chain required before it reaches me, who works from home, is enough other people with limited contacts and the school where they will be paying close attention to the kids coughs and sneezes such that I feel relatively secure.

I'm limited in contact with others and that is the main protection for each of us.

May I ask what measures and procedures are in place? And what level your child is at?

byhookorbycrook · 25-07-2020 7:54pm

Immunosuppressed teacher here . The DES have really dropped the ball here . They had from March to get some kind of plan in place .

Wanderer78 · 25-07-2020 7:56pm

I don't have kids and I'm concerned about them, this is extremely risky, has there been many cases globally of kids picking it up after schools reopened?

Ms2011 · 25-07-2020 8:10pm

I am an immunosuppressed parent with 2 primary aged kids returning to school in just over four weeks. This has been a concern for me from the start and I'm surprised to not have seen it mentioned earlier.
My children's school is a small rural school with just 2 classes with about 12 kids in both so at least they have a better chance of not contracting the virus than if they were in a bigger school.
That said that bug that hit before Christmas went through the school like wild fire, at one stage there were only 4 pupils in the whole school :eek:

robinph · 25-07-2020 8:15pm

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

May I ask what measures and procedures are in place? And what level your child is at?

The only years that went back were reception, year 1 and year 6. There was about 50% of the reception year back and possibly slightly less of the other years.

Lots of hand washing, kids all kept separate in each class with no mixing, separate arrival and pick up times for each year group, parents queuing on the footpath outside separated out by 2m, kids stood spaced out when waiting at pick up on the other side of the fence waiting to be called, soft play stuff removed from reception class, as much activity as possible outside, different lunch time for each class, lots of cleaning during the day, closed early on Wednesday for whole school cleaning, more spaced out desks, no bringing in own books or pens, separate area for if anyone gets ill during the day. Lots of other little things as well that I can't quite remember, but felt like they were doing everything possible to ensure that they could open with minimal risks.

mirrorwall14 · 25-07-2020 8:32pm

robinph wrote: »

The only years that went back were reception, year 1 and year 6. There was about 50% of the reception year back and possibly slightly less of the other years.

Lots of hand washing, kids all kept separate in each class with no mixing, separate arrival and pick up times for each year group, parents queuing on the footpath outside separated out by 2m, kids stood spaced out when waiting at pick up on the other side of the fence waiting to be called, soft play stuff removed from reception class, as much activity as possible outside, different lunch time for each class, lots of cleaning during the day, closed early on Wednesday for whole school cleaning, more spaced out desks, no bringing in own books or pens, separate area for if anyone gets ill during the day. Lots of other little things as well that I can't quite remember, but felt like they were doing everything possible to ensure that they could open with minimal risks.

That’s good procedures. I’m so worried the announcement on Monday will be all students back simultaneously

thebaz · 25-07-2020 8:38pm

Having witnessed packs of teenagers hanging around , not social distancing, looking bored and probably drinking and smoking too much , think school will be good for ther development and mental health, been able to socialise and play sports and learn , this will be good for the majority of students , if a parent is immuno-suppressed and worried, they should be allowed home school if they feal that is best for ther circumstances.

Wanderer78 · 25-07-2020 8:39pm

thebaz wrote:

Having witnessed packs of teenagers hanging around , not social distancing, looking bored and probably drinking and smoking too much , think school will be good for ther development and mental health, been able to socialise and play sports and learn , this will be good for the majority of students , if a parent is immuno-suppressed and worried, they should be allowed home school if they feal that is best for ther circumstances.

How many parents know how to home school?

thebaz · 25-07-2020 8:43pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

How many parents know how to home school?

I have no idea - just an idea , so the majority of students could return to some form of normality and healty living and development.

Ms2011 · 25-07-2020 8:50pm

thebaz wrote: »

if a parent is immuno-suppressed and worried, they should be allowed home school if they feal that is best for ther circumstances.

I'm not a teacher, I haven't the first idea how to teach my kids their school curriculum, tbh I spent from March to June more or less treading water as far as my kids education went. I did school work with them but it was more or less going over what they had been doing up until they left in March, I didn't know the next steps or how to progress in their learning.

thebaz · 25-07-2020 8:56pm

Ms2011 wrote: »

I'm not a teacher, I haven't the first idea how to teach my kids their school curriculum, tbh I spent from March to June more or less treading water as far as my kids education went. I did school work with them but it was more or less going over what they had been doing up until they left in March, I didn't know the next steps or how to progress in their learning.

but if a large majority of parents want to send ther children back to school , should they be denied ??

as said in my original post , I have witnessed large groups of teenager hanging out together all day , not socially distancing , drinking etc. .... think school might help a majority of these, now and particuly in the future.

isup · 25-07-2020 9:17pm

robinph wrote: »

The only years that went back were reception, year 1 and year 6. There was about 50% of the reception year back and possibly slightly less of the other years.

Lots of hand washing, kids all kept separate in each class with no mixing, separate arrival and pick up times for each year group, parents queuing on the footpath outside separated out by 2m, kids stood spaced out when waiting at pick up on the other side of the fence waiting to be called, soft play stuff removed from reception class, as much activity as possible outside, different lunch time for each class, lots of cleaning during the day, closed early on Wednesday for whole school cleaning, more spaced out desks, no bringing in own books or pens, separate area for if anyone gets ill during the day. Lots of other little things as well that I can't quite remember, but felt like they were doing everything possible to ensure that they could open with minimal risks.

I can't see that being in place here in the primary schools

Gruffalux · 25-07-2020 9:19pm

This is an interesting article -
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/17/nyregion/coronavirus-nyc-schools-reopening-outdoors.html

During the early 1900's outdoor schooling was used to deal with rampant TB. Loads and loads of moving fresh air.

http://www.rimed.org/rimedicaljournal/2016/09/2016-09-75-heritage.pdf

I really think as much as possible children could be taught outdoors.
Outdoor plastic garden furniture and be outside all the time that the weather is okay.
The furniture can stay outside so that if it rains they can go inside.
Use of canopies and open sided marquees.
Warm weatherproof clothes. Hats. Hot water bottles.
The article mentions special ''Eskimo'' sleeping bags the kids used.
Use bigger spaces within walking distance if they need to be inside, like community halls or churches. If indoors open all windows and doors fully. Forget the heating cranked up and teachers wearing unsuitable to outdoors clothes. School is outdoor pursuits environment this year.
Alternatively teach them at home, especially if you are immuno-compromised, or very worried - It is good craic.

Look how happy this person is outdoors in their chair. All families could buy one of these for their children and off they go to Forest School...

Icantthinkof1 · 25-07-2020 9:19pm

I’m so glad you posted this question! I’m in the same boat. I am classed as extremely vulnerable with underlying conditions.
If schools go back as normal my children will be mixing with up to 90plus children a day.
No matter I will be allowing my children return to school
I don’t know what the solution is; perhaps pods of up to 8 children and they attend school every 3days?I would imagine for the teachers who are immunocompromised they will receive sick leave as per their contracts and then will have to claim illness benefit

isup · 25-07-2020 9:21pm

thebaz wrote: »

but if a large majority of parents want to send ther children back to school , should they be denied ??

as said in my original post , I have witnessed large groups of teenager hanging out together all day , not socially distancing , drinking etc. .... think school might help a majority of these, now and particuly in the future.

I don't think they should be denied, just saying that it's worrying and what's more worrying is that they don't distance themselves and follow the guidelines in day to day life. If they did that it'd be alot less of a problem

isup · 25-07-2020 9:26pm

Icantthinkof1 wrote: »

I’m so glad you posted this question! I’m in the same boat. I am classed as extremely vulnerable with underlying conditions.
If schools go back as normal my children will be mixing with up to 90plus children a day.
No matter I will be allowing my children return to school
I don’t know what the solution is; perhaps pods of up to 8 children and they attend school every 3days?
As another poster mentioned I’ll be lashing on the zoono sanitiser on them before they go to school.
I would imagine for the teachers who are immunocompromised they will receive sick leave as per their contracts and then will have to claim illness benefit

I'm the same. I know they need school and to see people. Up to now we still have very limited contact with people and have denied invites of play dates and it is affecting them. I just hoped they would talk about this . I do feel for the teachers too

Ms2011 · 25-07-2020 9:26pm

thebaz wrote: »

but if a large majority of parents want to send ther children back to school , should they be denied ??

as said in my original post , I have witnessed large groups of teenager hanging out together all day , not socially distancing , drinking etc. .... think school might help a majority of these, now and particuly in the future.

My kids will be going back to school, as I mentioned they go to a small school so will be in contact with a very small amount of other kids, other immunosuppressed parents (and teachers) aren't as fortunate and I definitely think their voices should be heard.

robinph · 25-07-2020 10:03pm

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

That’s good procedures. I’m so worried the announcement on Monday will be all students back simultaneously

They have since sent details for going back for the whole school from September. Mostly the same as what they were doing for the last month with a small number back. Still have separate arrival and pick up times for each year, different lunch times, different break times. They are increasing the "bubbles" to being a year group rather than just a single class now, although I doubt they will go too overboard with the interclass mingling.

One of the criteria that lead us to select this school was it was the only one with a big outdoors space and sports field. Delighted with that choice now as the other schools which are a little bit closer have zero or negligible space outside... And one of them discovered asbestos during attempting renovation during lockdown too.

Charles Babbage · 25-07-2020 10:16pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

How many parents know how to home school?

Perhaps teachers who are immunocompromised or on quarantine (and any sniffle will ensure quarantine) could help with a national support service using video links. Not perfect, but the best of a bad job.

JP Liz V1 · 25-07-2020 10:35pm

MM really wants schools to reopen

Miike · 25-07-2020 10:43pm

heldel00 wrote: »

ISUP i know it's similar to putting a plaster on a broken leg, in terms of protection, but there is a 24 hour hand sanitiser called ZOONO that i will be buying for when schools start back

I would be very, very wary of claims that ANY product can offer 24 hour protection from a single application or persist to work after any washing. I've never heard of 'Zoono' until your post and went on a trek to find some kind of verifiable evidence from these "independent lab tests". I found a single, internal PDF from Zoono stating that it has worked against a surrogate virus with no reference to any time, ie. 'works for 24 hours / 12 hours / 1 hour".

I've had a cursory browse of FDA approvals/recalls/tests/verifications* for products which are similar and found https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-continues-ensure-availability-alcohol-based-hand-sanitizer-during

The FDA is not aware of any evidence that hand sanitizer products can protect consumers for 24 hours or after multiple hand-washings. These types of claims may put consumers at risk by leading to a false sense of security and resulting in infrequent hand washing or hand sanitizing.

I am wide open to any correction on this topic but as far as I can see these products are potentially a sham and arguably dangerous with these claims. You will put yourself and your family in danger if you rely on unsubstantiated claims by manufacturers.

Finally, if anyone has any actual papers/journal articles (scientific) related to these '24 hour' products, I would love if you could either reply or ideally PM them to me.

*The FDA doesn't approve hand sanitizers, I know. However they are charged with establishing the veracity of claims made by product manufacturers in health field and have been very active in doing so for products like this since early in this pandemic.

thebaz · 25-07-2020 11:22pm

Ms2011 wrote: »

other immunosuppressed parents (and teachers) aren't as fortunate and I definitely think their voices should be heard.

as should the voices of the majority - Ther is no perfect solution , but closing schools indefiitly will have a catasrophic effect on so many children and teens - school is much more than passing exams - gives pupils social skills , physical excercise and a little fun - thats whats been missed - I do think that all parents will have a huge responsibilty not to send ther children to schools or creches if sick, like they may have in the past .
And one good thing about the virus, it does not effect children too bad.

youandme13 · 26-07-2020 12:03am

But if each year is staggered start and finish times how will breakfast and after school work with them? I work full time in a childcare setting and my son attends before and after, how would this work with lots of children? Also my child school has over 220 children in each year and they just dont have the space to half all of those classes for social distancing. I'm also pregnant and my partner has had lung and heart problems since April so would be classed as vulnerable now and has been wfh.

Icantthinkof1 · 26-07-2020 12:17am

Miike wrote: »

I would be very, very wary of claims that ANY product can offer 24 hour protection from a single application or persist to work after any washing. I've never heard of 'Zoono' until your post and went on a trek to find some kind of verifiable evidence from these "independent lab tests". I found a single, internal PDF from Zoono stating that it has worked against a surrogate virus with no reference to any time, ie. 'works for 24 hours / 12 hours / 1 hour".
I am wide open to any correction on this topic but as far as I can see these products are potentially a sham and arguably dangerous with these claims. You will put yourself and your family in danger if you rely on unsubstantiated claims by manufacturers.

Finally, if anyone has any actual papers/journal articles (scientific) related to these '24 hour' products, I would love if you could either reply or ideally PM them to me.
.

I had mentioned in a few of my previous posts that I will be putting zoono sanitiser on my children as they head out the door to school; but thank you for highlighting this relevant concern and in hindsight I will amend my posts to reflect that; just because a product claims to provide 24 hour protection it doesn’t make it so
In all honesty I know myself that I would still explain the importance of proper hand washing to my children and I would expect them to still wash their hands as soon as they came home but some people may be lured into a false sense of security that there would be no need as the product claims to work for up to 24hours

Miike · 26-07-2020 12:20am

Icantthinkof1 wrote: »

I had mentioned in a few of my previous posts that I will be putting zoono sanitiser on my children as they head out the door to school; but thank you for highlighting this relevant concern and in hindsight I will amend my posts to reflect that; just because a product claims to provide 24 hour protection it doesn’t make it so
In all honesty I know myself that I would still explain the importance of continuing their proper hand washing routine while in school to my children and I would expect them to still wash their hands as soon as they came home but some people may be lured into a false sense of security that there would be no need as the product claims to work for up to 24hours

Since I've posted that I've been trawling academic databases and even google (I've stopped now) and I've not found anything even close to verifying their claims. This product would be a total game changer for healthcare providers, even if it conferred 1 hour protection.

Again I am wide open to anyone who has ANY information of otherwise. Please give me a shout.

heldel00 · 26-07-2020 1:02pm

^^^ Thanks Mike. I suppose i had planned on using it without telling the children "now that's you done until tomorrow" but i would plan on continuing with the handwashing and extra sanitising.
I just know that my own classroom will have 33 4th and 5th class children with one sink. Far from ideal.
Would love to hear more about people's findings/ opinions on Zoono.

taylor3 · 26-07-2020 1:30pm

A lot of times in the past my daughter has come home from school telling me there wasn't any soap in the toilets. So I have already bought a tube type bottle of antiseptic hand soap in Lidl. She will bring that into school in September and keep it in her bag, she also has hand sanitizer too. I reckon a lot of kids will be the same bringing their own in and encouraged to use it often throughout the day. Although a plus for us is she can now come home on her lunch break.

SEPT 23 1989 · 26-07-2020 1:33pm

We all know what happens every September when the kids go back

Sickness arrives in the house

isup · 26-07-2020 2:28pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

We all know what happens every September when the kids go back

Sickness arrives in the house

It would be hard to distance yourself from your own kids too.

Parents with underlying conditions and schools

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