Fighter jets for the Air Corps?

jonnybigwallet · 15-07-2020 4:41am

Good, well researched article. Time to get a squadron of Gripens on order. And in the meantime a squadron of trainer / light attack jets such as the L39 NG.

15-07-2020 5:00am

I really think drones developed indigenously could provide everything this country requires from a fighter jet service (Fast interception, observation, takedown) at a fraction of the cost.

perfectkama · 15-07-2020 5:37am

Drones wont scare everything away it needs to be a manned human eye high altitude interception able to cover many different manned threats such as a hijacked plane.
It will become more urgent as it is being recognized as the only air space with out protection and its gonna cost $
The Swedish Grippen is being toted as a candidate 10 x 60m + protection and 3 crews per plane

Markcheese · 15-07-2020 7:18am

punchdrunk wrote: »

Jet's aren't going to happen, the Air Corps will get nothing but tokenism.
same for the Navy (albeit slightly better)

Nothing will change until some takes the bull by the horns and completely reorganises the DF, closes half of the barracks
reduces the size of the army and expands the AC and the navy... we're an island that's somewhat poorly defended by sea and completely undefended by air, meanwhile we have thousands of soldiers in barracks that are holdovers from our colonial past.

but who has the balls to close barracks in towns that aren't strategically useful?

The army isn't all that big is it ?
It's main job Isnt really defending the country from an outside attack (although it is part of the job ) , it's as an aid to to the government ,
Think disasters and civil unrest,terrorism ect ...
The army are the states multi-tool ( was gonna say Swiss army knife ) ...

As are the current air Corp , a few helicopters ,a few small transport planes, a couple of maritime survey planes ,a government transport , and the p 9 s ( whatever they're for )

sparky42 · 15-07-2020 11:29am

Deleted User wrote: »

I really think drones developed indigenously could provide everything this country requires from a fighter jet service (Fast interception, observation, takedown) at a fraction of the cost.

Not a chance to do any of that for anything like a "fraction of the cost". Just creating such an industry would be more expensive (you can tell that as nobody else has such a UCAV capability as yet)

sparky42 · 15-07-2020 11:48am

punchdrunk wrote: »

Jet's aren't going to happen, the Air Corps will get nothing but tokenism.
same for the Navy (albeit slightly better)

Nothing will change until some takes the bull by the horns and completely reorganises the DF, closes half of the barracks
reduces the size of the army and expands the AC and the navy... we're an island that's somewhat poorly defended by sea and completely undefended by air, meanwhile we have thousands of soldiers in barracks that are holdovers from our colonial past.

but who has the balls to close barracks in towns that aren't strategically useful?

Honestly, the Army is pretty much as small as it can be and still be able to keep it's skillsets (perhaps even too small for that), the problem is trying to run the DF on such a tiny budget. The ideal would to increase funding and to keep the Army at the current mandated strength while increasing the numbers in both the AC and NS to at least double what they are now and then add in capabilities to them imo.

Larbre34 · 15-07-2020 10:48pm

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

And in the meantime a squadron of trainer / light attack jets such as the L39 NG.

These sort of aircraft are of no value to us. They offer no discernable advantage over the PC-9s in terms of capability or airmanship training. Their maximum speed is 100 knots slower than an airliner at cruising speed. The best way to train pilots to fly a Gripen is to put him or her in a simulator followed by a Gripen, there is a twin-seater version for that purpose.

The Boeing-Saab T7 Red Hawk is the newest most advanced plane of this type and it is currently entering service with the USAF and so it is unlikely to be available for export for some years yet.

The L39, M346 and similar are only good for two things, flying in display teams or killing tanks for forces that don't operate attack helicopters.

Psychlops · 22-07-2020 7:36pm

https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia-pacific/2020/07/20/indonesia-says-it-wants-to-buy-austrias-entire-typhoon-fighter-fleet/

Bye bye Austrian Tiffies.

sparky42 · 22-07-2020 9:40pm

Psychlops wrote: »

https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia-pacific/2020/07/20/indonesia-says-it-wants-to-buy-austrias-entire-typhoon-fighter-fleet/

Bye bye Austrian Tiffies.

To be fair, the Austrian Tiffies were going away anyway given the legal action going on between Austrian and the consortium, this just means they might see use rather than go into mothballs.

Larbre34 · 22-07-2020 9:59pm

The Austrians will be only thrilled to get a few quid for them, help pay for the Gripens they always should have procured.

I know the Typhoon is operated by some "friendly" middle eastern air forces, but I wonder is there any recourse to the Consortium and investor Governments about selling to somewhere outside of certain Allies?

sparky42 · 22-07-2020 10:10pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

The Austrians will be only thrilled to get a few quid for them, help pay for the Gripens they always should have procured.

I know the Typhoon is operated by some "friendly" middle eastern air forces, but I wonder is there any recourse to the Consortium and investor Governments about selling to somewhere outside of certain Allies?

Well the suggestion is they are going for leasing rather than outright buying to avoid the time delay of an open competition.

I think I read that they tried to get Indonesia to buy Typhoons back when it was competing with the Russians for their latest order, that Indonesia was offered a licence for a production line. Same offer was made to both India and Japan when they were trying to win export orders.

However with the orders from Germany and the report of Spain replacing their early F18's with new Tranche Typhoons the European order line should be good for a few more years with perhaps up to 100 more.

Larbre34 · 23-07-2020 3:46pm

I was just leafing through the specs of the F-16 and the Gripen, the range of the Falcon is appalling!

Assuming we aren't going to acquire a mid-air refuelling capability and we're not in a position to join a multi-national tanker effort, the Gripen is the only logical choice for our needs.

cameramonkey · 23-07-2020 6:59pm

As Berry said on the radio the other day, lets start off with 3 military radar sites and then we can at least see what is in and adjacent to our airspace. That would be a big leap in our capacity.

sparky42 · 23-07-2020 8:49pm

cameramonkey wrote: »

As Berry said on the radio the other day, lets start off with 3 military radar sites and then we can at least see what is in and adjacent to our airspace. That would be a big leap in our capacity.

That's not something he came up with, it's been in the WP since 2015 in the "Wishlist" section.

cameramonkey · 23-07-2020 8:52pm

sparky42 wrote: »

That's not something he came up with, it's been in the WP since 2015 in the "Wishlist" section.

He did not say he came up with it, he just was making the point , a good one, that we should start with that first.

sparky42 · 23-07-2020 9:23pm

cameramonkey wrote: »

He did not say he came up with it, he just was making the point , a good one, that we should start with that first.

Which is already the stated aim of the WP if funds are available, he’s not making a point just repeating what has already been decided.

cameramonkey · 23-07-2020 11:17pm

sparky42 wrote: »

Which is already the stated aim of the WP if funds are available, he’s not making a point just repeating what has already been decided.

Do you know what making a point means? It means to argue or promote an idea or to state something that is important. The idea is to get some military grade radar and he is promoting that idea so he Making a point.

This may clear it up for you.
https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/make+a+point
https://www.yourdictionary.com/make-a-point

Do you have a problem with Mr Berry promoting the idea that we should have radar?

Larbre34 · 23-07-2020 11:20pm

Coveney said that a primary radar was already a major priority of his when he was in his last stint as Minister, yet still we are no further.

Did I read here or somewhere recently that a system wouldn't actually be that expensive, i.e. <20 million?

sparky42 · 23-07-2020 11:51pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

Coveney said that a primary radar was already a major priority of his when he was in his last stint as Minister, yet still we are no further.

Did I read here or somewhere recently that a system wouldn't actually be that expensive, i.e. <20 million?

To be fair we're basically no further on anything since his last stint and actually worse.

Don't know where you read that, I suppose it depends on the systems and capabilities and integration that is looked for, I'm sure there's a fairly big envelope from bare bones to highly capable with the price tags to match.

punchdrunk · 24-07-2020 12:39am

Larbre34 wrote: »

I was just leafing through the specs of the F-16 and the Gripen, the range of the Falcon is appalling!

Assuming we aren't going to acquire a mid-air refuelling capability and we're not in a position to join a multi-national tanker effort, the Gripen is the only logical choice for our needs.

Assume we aren’t getting anything, because there’s no way we are!!

...I’d love to be wrong but let’s be real here!

Leonidas BL · 24-07-2020 5:01pm

They will probably replace the PC-9's in 2025 with the PC-21. Apparently it can cover all forms of pilot training.

capture14.jpg?w=625

sparky42 · 24-07-2020 5:18pm

Leonidas BL wrote: »

They will probably replace the PC-9's in 2025 with the PC-21. Apparently it can cover all forms of pilot training.

snip

I'd be highly surprised if they actually are replaced by then tbh. Between the likely budget squeezes and the relatively low use on the PC9's (including the replacement) Id expect 2030ish at best.

Leonidas BL · 24-07-2020 5:22pm

sparky42 wrote: »

I'd be highly surprised if they actually are replaced by then tbh. Between the likely budget squeezes and the relatively low use on the PC9's (including the replacement) Id expect 2030ish at best.

I kinda thought 2025 was a bit optimistic myself.

sparky42 · 24-07-2020 6:13pm

Leonidas BL wrote: »

I kinda thought 2025 was a bit optimistic myself.

Pretty much, I mean I wouldn't be surprised if it was 2035ish tbh. Short of any major change in DF duties.

roadmaster · 24-07-2020 7:20pm

Coveney will tell DOD we need jets, DOD will do a google search and see a pc9 with sidewinders. They will buy a few ring the minister problem solved we now have an intercept capability .Just not the small things like speed and radar

punchdrunk · 24-07-2020 10:50pm

Leonidas BL wrote: »

They will probably replace the PC-9's in 2025 with the PC-21. Apparently it can cover all forms of pilot training.

Not a chance!

roadmaster · 06-08-2020 12:46pm

With All the power now in Cork and talks of cork airport not viable according to some media we could suggest that if the government bough jets and based them in cork it would safe the airport and loads of jobs!

jonnybigwallet · 06-08-2020 1:40pm

Extremely good idea. Could share the facility with the Spanish Air Force. Remember the battle of Kinsale etc.

Leonidas BL · 06-08-2020 5:03pm

roadmaster wrote: »

With All the power now in Cork and talks of cork airport not viable according to some media we could suggest that if the government bough jets and based them in cork it would safe the airport and loads of jobs!

Sure, and we could rename it the Cork Air Corps along with the Cork Navy...

Leonidas BL · 06-08-2020 5:04pm

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

Extremely good idea. Could share the facility with the Spanish Air Force. Remember the battle of Kinsale etc.

What are you blithering about???

Leonidas BL · 06-08-2020 5:04pm

punchdrunk wrote: »

Not a chance!

I think its most likely the PC-9 be replaced by PC-21

jonnybigwallet · 06-08-2020 5:13pm

Interesting point of view...

punchdrunk · 06-08-2020 6:34pm

Leonidas BL wrote: »

I think its most likely the PC-9 be replaced by PC-21

Nothing wrong with the PC-9’s as trainers- far more important to buy more helicopters and crew them

jonnybigwallet · 06-08-2020 7:28pm

Could come in a bit handy all right. Maybe a few of them Baby Shark remote control ones might be useful. Seeing as theres a shortage of pilots. A couple of them twin engine Boeing jobbies would be great as well. Not sure if we need any Apatches at the moment. Wouldn't mind a smatterin of them though.

sparky42 · 06-08-2020 8:46pm

Leonidas BL wrote: »

Sure, and we could rename it the Cork Air Corps along with the Cork Navy...

The People's Republic approve of this!

Leonidas BL · 06-08-2020 11:23pm

punchdrunk wrote: »

Nothing wrong with the PC-9’s as trainers- far more important to buy more helicopters and crew them

Never said there was anything wrong with it, but they will be replaced at some stage.

Leonidas BL · 06-08-2020 11:27pm

sparky42 wrote: »

The People's Republic approve of this!

Of China maybe

roadmaster · 07-08-2020 12:20pm

Leonidas BL wrote: »

Of China maybe

OR Apple Inc.!

jonnybigwallet · 23-09-2020 4:22pm

Good video here. Wonder are they watching this down in Baldonnel?

https://youtu.be/sV9Brhzefzc

punchdrunk · 23-09-2020 4:41pm

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

Good video here. Wonder are they watching this down in Baldonnel?

https://youtu.be/sV9Brhzefzc

Why? Theyd be crap as interceptors.

Sgt. Bilko 09 · 23-09-2020 4:46pm

punchdrunk wrote: »

Why? Theyd be crap as interceptors.

Gripen maybe

punchdrunk · 23-09-2020 5:06pm

Sgt. Bilko 09 wrote: »

Gripen maybe

Great if someone is willing to pay for it!

ohnonotgmail · 23-09-2020 5:51pm

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

Good video here. Wonder are they watching this down in Baldonnel?

https://youtu.be/sV9Brhzefzc

what roles do you think they might fulfill?

jonnybigwallet · 23-09-2020 6:38pm

Similar to pc9 and preparation for transition to Gripen.

punchdrunk · 23-09-2020 7:17pm

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

Similar to pc9 and preparation for transition to Gripen.

The only way we’d get Grippens would be if the EU forced us to have a QRF and then the training would be outsourced

sparky42 · 23-09-2020 8:02pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

what roles do you think they might fulfill?

Reminder that we once spent several times what we now do as a % and the nation managed just fine.

punchdrunk · 23-09-2020 8:31pm

sparky42 wrote: »

Reminder that we once spent several times what we now do as a % and the nation managed just fine.

We haven’t had current and effective fighter aircraft since the mid 40’s, even the vampire was redundant when we got it

sparky42 · 23-09-2020 9:03pm

punchdrunk wrote: »

We haven’t had current and effective fighter aircraft since the mid 40’s, even the vampire was redundant when we got it

Not disagreeing with you, never mentioned the AC, I meant the defence budget, we sustained over 1% of GDP in defence when said GDP was tiny compared to what we are today (or even GNI if you take out the GDP funny numbers). That's my point, the whole "who pays for it" ignores the fact that we spent more before.

Heraldoffreeent · 23-09-2020 9:08pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

what roles do you think they might fulfill?

Bombing and strafeing Johnny furriner wallahs of course!!

Might even get two 50 cals in the back turret.

Sgt. Bilko 09 · 23-09-2020 9:31pm

sparky42 wrote: »

Not disagreeing with you, never mentioned the AC, I meant the defence budget, we sustained over 1% of GDP in defence when said GDP was tiny compared to what we are today (or even GNI if you take out the GDP funny numbers). That's my point, the whole "who pays for it" ignores the fact that we spent more before.

Hungary leased the Gripen on good terms from Saab maybe we could do the same.

Fighter jets for the Air Corps?

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