Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - Read OP for Mod Warnings

bucketybuck · 19-07-2020 12:21PM

Golf is my Game wrote: »

Thats it and you hear a lot of people who dont get it. They keep saying if thats OK then this is the same or even safer so it must be OK to do. But they dont understand what their saying. Its the sum of all these things that matters so you have to decide what you can do and what you cant do. You have to seem them as all adding up not just keeping the risk the same. Thats why pubs have to say closed and people also giving out about the 9 euro meal saying whats the point of whether I eat or not for if Il get covid. It reduces the risk becuase it puts a tax on going to the pub at all which loads of lads will decide isnt worth it so you keep the numbers down that does. Pubs just dont contribute enough to the run of the country to be worth taking the risk with.

Have you ever heard of paragraphs?

Regardless, answer me this. If the government "gets it", and knows all that you just said, then why were pubs originally told they could open in phase 4?

LuckyLloyd · 19-07-2020 12:26PM

Results will be published for phase 1 of the Oxford / AstraZeneca vaccine trials tomorrow that will be very positive as to its efficacy. Their phase 3 trialling is underway in the U.K., Brazil and South Africa with consideration underway for potential “challenge” trials in the autumn of suppression of infection causes phase 3 to have a delayed completion.

I’ll listen to the ‘we may have to live with this for years’ and the ‘we might never get a vaccine’ people if and when multiple vaccines through to phase 3 trialling are confirmed as unsuccessful. But until then this is the plan: collective action of varying degrees depending on level of community transmission with the objective of facilitating suppression until a vaccine is distributed. Do your part.

Tokyo · 19-07-2020 12:45PM

Mod: Plumbthedepths - threadban lifted.

Multipass · 19-07-2020 01:21PM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Just rad that the covid payment is set to be extended to spring 2021.... ya really gotta ask what’s so different about Ireland to the rest of Europe that we’re moving along so slowly???

https://www.newstalk.com/news/pandemic-payments-expected-continue-spring-2021-1048207

We’re living in financial lala land.

beggars_bush · 19-07-2020 01:26PM

Multipass wrote: »

We’re living in financial lala land.

We've plenty of capacity to borrow

19-07-2020 01:34PM

Multipass wrote: »

We’re living in financial lala land.

Pretty much.
Haemorrhaging billions every month.

We’ll have to pay it back of course.

I fear a lot of people that support this madness will look back and feel differently when the bill arrives.

faceman · 19-07-2020 01:43PM

I wonder if Ireland will move to a point where Gardai are expected to do greater policing of people’s homes than the local pub

https://twitter.com/care2much18/status/1284623127037849606?s=21

is_that_so · 19-07-2020 01:48PM

faceman wrote: »

I wonder if Ireland will move to a point where Gardai are expected to do greater policing of people’s homes than the local pub

https://twitter.com/care2much18/status/1284623127037849606?s=21

As long as new clusters don't develop this issue should subside. As others have said they have been going on all the way throughout this, it's the numbers now at some of them that is the issue.

is_that_so · 19-07-2020 01:51PM

Deleted User wrote: »

We have a very unique situation in Ireland. In the Feb 2020 election, SF would have romped home if they had run more candidates. Many people were sick of FG and FF. Both parties knew that very well. FFG were relying on 5th and 6th counts to get seats.

Covid presented FG with a real opportunity to win people back over. They knew they wouldn't be the main party in power so they afford to sacrifice the economy and act like they are putting people's lives ahead of the economy. Throw in a few quotes from Terminator and Mean Girls in the process and their popularity shot back up.

Now MM is under real pressure not to let things slip. He can't be seen as the guy that prioritized the economy and allowed a 2nd wave to occur.

So we'll borrow billions and billions and billions on our Covid credit card and pray the interest rates on our borrowing won't increase. If the economy collapses, we'll just blame Covid and unprecedented times.

With more stable leadership, I think we'd be witnessing a much different approach.

Having three teams in there is problematic. The Greens have their little corners, FG just seem to be rolling with it and FF are trying to put their stamp on things.

Golf is my Game · 19-07-2020 02:38PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Have you ever heard of paragraphs?

Regardless, answer me this. If the government "gets it", and knows all that you just said, then why were pubs originally told they could open in phase 4?

They weren't told that. They was always clear that they were outline if all the numbers went well, and their learning as they go which is fair enough. So yes the pubs are in the nice but not needed level where you do it if all the important stuff is running and the think is under control. As well they were going to see how the other country's that are ahead of us would go and learn from that too. So they no what theyre at but some people don't follow it because the just thinking about I want to go to the pub or the football or whatever.

Golf is my Game · 19-07-2020 02:39PM

And, I think this is a discussion not a writing contest.

19-07-2020 02:45PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Nope, pubs, clubs and huge parts of the entertainment industry are still closed. Thousands of construction workers are still getting the Covid payment.

Most business is running at extremely reduced capacity that is very unsustainable medium to long term.

The Covid payment needs to continue as long as people are been asked not to work.

When it does end, we are going to have lots on social welfare and less working.

The only way to sustain that... higher taxes.

It's nice to see this being acknowledged. There's c. 20,000 full-time musicians, entertainers and techs in Ireland who were first out and will be last to return. These months of lockdown are usually peak season, but most of us haven't done a gig since early March. Just an unfathomable reality. Also, for me, it's not about pubs. I do about 12 pub gigs per year at this stage of my career.

I was due to start back in the first weekend of August with a couple of small weddings. However, the latest delay in easing of restrictions has quashed that. As a result, other events in late August and September are now being postponed or cancelled given the uncertainty around our progress against Covid and the possibility of further setbacks.

Personally, I've been out of work for so long now* and have endured so much that I don't want the last 4 months to be in vain. If another month of caution means that we can get back to 'normality' sooner, I'm willing to take that.

*I recently took up another temporary job on the lowest rung of the ladder in a factory. It's grand to be at something and have a purpose again, but I've been in music and events for 20 years now, that's my strength and the industry where I'm well established and have put a lot of effort and many hours into. I also love my job and the thoughts of never doing it again would be a huge blow to my life and my plans. I was always extra careful not to injure my limbs as this would be the one thing which could ruin my career. Guess I never accounted for a pandemic :pac:

TaurenDruid · 19-07-2020 03:40PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Pretty much.
Haemorrhaging billions every month.

We’ll have to pay it back of course.

I fear a lot of people that support this madness will look back and feel differently when the bill arrives.

Yes, we're borrowing, and it will have to be repaid, but you know what we're borrowing is at effectively zero % interest?

What alternative would you propose?

TaurenDruid · 19-07-2020 03:43PM

Deleted User wrote: »

So we'll borrow billions and billions and billions on our Covid credit card and pray the interest rates on our borrowing won't increase. If the economy collapses, we'll just blame Covid and unprecedented times.

The government are buying bonds, not taking out a mortgage on a 3-bed semi. The rate won't change. In fact, the rate is known right now for the entire duration of the bonds we've bought. Many of them, btw, are at zero or even negative interest rates.

TomsOnTheRoof · 19-07-2020 03:55PM

I went to the Japanese gardens today with my gf. We had to leave. National stud was fine but the gardens themselves were so small and narrow and the place was packed. People squeezing by one another with multiple footpaths but zero signs.

We rang in advance and both of us not being from Kildare assumed that the gardens would be quite open. They were the exact opposite. The place was so packed they had attendants getting people to park on grass verges but very little presence inside the compound. No contact tracing bar asking us where we were from. No name or number taken. People were on top of each other.

Rang the HSE live line who were supremely unhelpful and told me to contact local gardai. They seemed genuinely put out that I had rung. Gardai were far more helpful and said they'd get someone out to have a look. Admitted that they are limited in what they can do but nonetheless recognised the danger especially as there were a number of tourists walking around the gardens.

I'm not a curtain twitcher and admit to having been very frustrated with the restrictions. However the blatant hypocrisy when people are being shamed for having others over for a BBQ or heading to the pub whilst close to a hundred people from all over can be bunged into a confined space every hour, 9 to 5, with no contact tracing is ridiculous. Highlights the haphazard and selective nature with which the restrictions have been implemented. A complete joke. And before others complain about me having the neck to condemn others for my own behaviour, I left the gardens after 5 minutes when it became obvious that there was little or no effort being made to observe social distancing.

niallo27 · 19-07-2020 03:58PM

TaurenDruid wrote: »

Yes, we're borrowing, and it will have to be repaid, but you know what we're borrowing is at effectively zero % interest?

What alternative would you propose?

Ya but will it be zero percent in 2 to 5 years time.

bucketybuck · 19-07-2020 04:01PM

Golf is my Game wrote: »

And, I think this is a discussion not a writing contest.

Golf is my Game wrote: »

So they no what theyre at but some people don't follow it because the just thinking about I want

Discussions require good communication.

Golf is my Game wrote: »

They weren't told that.

We were all given a "roadmap" for reopening and nothing whatsoever was said about a zero sum reopening strategy, I do not recall one single press release from the government stating such a policy.

faceman · 19-07-2020 04:04PM

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

I went to the Japanese gardens today with my gf. We had to leave. National stud was fine but the gardens themselves were so small and narrow and the place was packed. People squeezing by one another with multiple footpaths but zero signs.

We rang in advance and both of us not being from Kildare assumed that the gardens would be quite open. They were the exact opposite. The place was so packed they had attendants getting people to park on grass verges but very little presence inside the compound. No contact tracing bar asking us where we were from. No name or number taken. People were on top of each other.

Rang the HSE live line who were supremely unhelpful and told me to contact local gardai. They seemed genuinely put out that I had rung. Gardai were far more helpful and said they'd get someone out to have a look. Admitted that they are limited in what they can do but nonetheless recognised the danger especially as there were a number of tourists walking around the gardens.

I'm not a curtain twitcher and admit to having been very frustrated with the restrictions. However the blatant hypocrisy when people are being shamed for having others over for a BBQ or heading to the pub whilst close to a hundred people from all over can be bunged into a confined space every hour, 9 to 5, with no contact tracing is ridiculous. Highlights the haphazard and selective nature with which the restrictions have been implemented. A complete joke. And before others complain about me having the neck to condemn others for my own behaviour, I left the gardens after 5 minutes when it became obvious that there was little or no effort being made to observe social distancing.

Totally take your valid points. Interesting the response or lack of thereof from the HSE. I’ve seen the opposite from them a few months ago relating to a Golf club when they reopened

Ironically if the Gardai investigate and have an issue the gardai must inform the HSE who also carry out an investigation. Very Irish.

That being said, the risk of catching coronavirus outdoor even if it’s busy is extremely low or negligible

niallo27 · 19-07-2020 04:31PM

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

I went to the Japanese gardens today with my gf. We had to leave. National stud was fine but the gardens themselves were so small and narrow and the place was packed. People squeezing by one another with multiple footpaths but zero signs.

We rang in advance and both of us not being from Kildare assumed that the gardens would be quite open. They were the exact opposite. The place was so packed they had attendants getting people to park on grass verges but very little presence inside the compound. No contact tracing bar asking us where we were from. No name or number taken. People were on top of each other.

Rang the HSE live line who were supremely unhelpful and told me to contact local gardai. They seemed genuinely put out that I had rung. Gardai were far more helpful and said they'd get someone out to have a look. Admitted that they are limited in what they can do but nonetheless recognised the danger especially as there were a number of tourists walking around the gardens.

I'm not a curtain twitcher and admit to having been very frustrated with the restrictions. However the blatant hypocrisy when people are being shamed for having others over for a BBQ or heading to the pub whilst close to a hundred people from all over can be bunged into a confined space every hour, 9 to 5, with no contact tracing is ridiculous. Highlights the haphazard and selective nature with which the restrictions have been implemented. A complete joke. And before others complain about me having the neck to condemn others for my own behaviour, I left the gardens after 5 minutes when it became obvious that there was little or no effort being made to observe social distancing.

In the nicest possible way would you ever cop on to yourself, it was outside and I presume you had a mask on,you are more likely to get killed on the drive home. People need a reality check here.

road_high · 19-07-2020 04:31PM

beggars_bush wrote: »

We've plenty of capacity to borrow

Debatable. Short term yes but as this thing stretches out as it seems to be the capacity will be more and more constrained. The real fun starts then

is_that_so · 19-07-2020 04:35PM

niallo27 wrote: »

In the nicest possible way would you ever cop on to yourself, it was outside and I presume you had a mask on,you are more likely to get killed on the drive home. People need a reality check here.

There are many individual ways to get through this. Presuming you know better than other people and telling them so shouldn't be one of them. Leave him be.

road_high · 19-07-2020 04:41PM

niallo27 wrote: »

In the nicest possible way would you ever cop on to yourself, it was outside and I presume you had a mask on,you are more likely to get killed on the drive home. People need a reality check here.

I always have to laugh at these having meltdowns at the crowds in places ...all the while they are there themselves...contributing to thode crowds.
Ringing the HSE lol what absolute rubbish. Just stay at home forever if you don’t want to be near people...imagine the Japanese gardens being busy on a lovely sunny July weekend with foreign travel effectively banned...would have assumed it would be empty

Lundstram · 19-07-2020 04:42PM

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

I went to the Japanese gardens today with my gf. We had to leave. National stud was fine but the gardens themselves were so small and narrow and the place was packed. People squeezing by one another with multiple footpaths but zero signs.

We rang in advance and both of us not being from Kildare assumed that the gardens would be quite open. They were the exact opposite. The place was so packed they had attendants getting people to park on grass verges but very little presence inside the compound. No contact tracing bar asking us where we were from. No name or number taken. People were on top of each other.

Rang the HSE live line who were supremely unhelpful and told me to contact local gardai. They seemed genuinely put out that I had rung. Gardai were far more helpful and said they'd get someone out to have a look. Admitted that they are limited in what they can do but nonetheless recognised the danger especially as there were a number of tourists walking around the gardens.

I'm not a curtain twitcher and admit to having been very frustrated with the restrictions. However the blatant hypocrisy when people are being shamed for having others over for a BBQ or heading to the pub whilst close to a hundred people from all over can be bunged into a confined space every hour, 9 to 5, with no contact tracing is ridiculous. Highlights the haphazard and selective nature with which the restrictions have been implemented. A complete joke. And before others complain about me having the neck to condemn others for my own behaviour, I left the gardens after 5 minutes when it became obvious that there was little or no effort being made to observe social distancing.

Good one.

The HorsesMouth · 19-07-2020 04:43PM

With regard to the poster talking about the national stud farm...The problem here is that we have a huge amount of people who usually holiday abroad now holidaying at home. Therefore your strand hills/ dingles/ any tourism hotspot etc is going to be completely overrun even before the need for 2m social distancing.For every action there is reaction and these are the things the government has to think about when making these decisions.
Personally I think there has to be a bit of creative thinking here by the government...vouchers to holiday in your carlows/leitrims/roscommons etc. While also giving guidelines to all these rural pubs for e.g you've got a pub with 100sq metre capacity = you can have 25 people in etc.
We've got a situation where there is very little open yet a far higher number of people than normal want to get out and about. Hence your tourism spots outdoor and indoor are overrun.

road_high · 19-07-2020 04:50PM

The HorsesMouth wrote: »

With regard to the poster talking about the national stud farm...The problem here is that we have a huge amount of people who usually holiday abroad now holidaying at home. Therefore your strand hills/ dingles/ any tourism hotspot etc is going to be completely overrun even before the need for 2m social distancing.For every action there is reaction and these are the things the government has to think about when making these decisions.
Personally I think there has to be a bit of creative thinking here by the government...vouchers to holiday in your carlows/leitrims/roscommons etc. While also giving guidelines to all these rural pubs for e.g you've got a pub with 100sq metre capacity = you can have 25 people in etc.
We've got a situation where there is very little open yet a far higher number of people than normal want to get out and about. Hence your tourism spots outdoor and indoor are overrun.

Exactly. I live in Kilkenny and its extremely busy this weekend with day trippers and weekenders especially around the Castle and shops. Lovely weather too is bringing people out.
This is inevitable and if people don’t like it either stay at home or visit during the week when its less busy

TaurenDruid · 19-07-2020 05:01PM

niallo27 wrote: »

Ya but will it be zero percent in 2 to 5 years time.

Yes? Like, it's 10-year bonds they're borrowing. It's a constant, know, rate that they sign up to. There are no unknowns here.

NegativeCreep · 19-07-2020 05:11PM

TaurenDruid wrote: »

Yes? Like, it's 10-year bonds they're borrowing. It's a constant, know, rate that they sign up to. There are no unknowns here.

Whether there’s interest or not we still have to pay back the actual sum borrowed. It’s not like it’s free. We’re borrowing a ridiculous amount and that ridiculous amount has to be repaid. Who Will pay it? The middle class as usual.

19-07-2020 05:28PM

10 cases, Open up FFS!!! How can we justify keeping restrictions?

TomsOnTheRoof · 19-07-2020 05:30PM

niallo27 wrote: »

In the nicest possible way would you ever cop on to yourself, it was outside and I presume you had a mask on,you are more likely to get killed on the drive home. People need a reality check here.

If anyone needs to cop on it's yourself. I've already mentioned my frustration with the restrictions. They went on for far too long. However as long as there are active cases social distancing is a necessary evil. To say people are living in fear because they observe distancing protocol is ignorant.

I'm young and fortunately healthy. My girlfriend is likewise. However both of us have family members in the at risk category and whilst we are more than capable of going out and enjoying ourselves in the current climate that doesn't mean we are going to completely dismiss any kind of proper sanitary procedures. To do so would be incredibly selfish and irresponsible.

Furthermore if you had read my initial post you would have observed my annoyance at the selective manner with which the restrictions have been implemented. I have no issue with people going to the pub or out for a meal or having a BBQ. However I do take issue with large gatherings where no social distancing measures are taken, especially considering there are flights entering the country. Why is it ok for tourists to enter, fail to observe quarantine and visit crowded places but it's not OK to have a house party or open a pub which isn't serving food?

You know there was nothing more irritating than those curtain twitchers who complained at the merest hint of a breach during the lockdown but the likes of you advocating a "get on with it attitude" and exemplifying a complete disregard for any kind of sanitary measures are as equally bloody cretinous.

yosemitesam1 · 19-07-2020 05:33PM

TaurenDruid wrote: »

Yes? Like, it's 10-year bonds they're borrowing. It's a constant, know, rate that they sign up to. There are no unknowns here.

The problem is that they will need to refinance when the term is up. The principal won't be paid off by then (if it ever is)

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - Read OP for Mod Warnings