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Landlord in Cork in trouble for tenants house parties.

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24

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    #32
    Crimsonred
    Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭Crimsonred


    housetypeb wrote: »
    I would hate it.
    But what if they were the owners having parties?
    What makes the landlord the man to quieten the neighborhood rather than the guards in this case.

    In that case you have to try and reason with them and if that fails decide whether it's worth the hassle of initiating legal proceedings against them, putting up with the noise, or selling up.

    The laws regarding noise pollution in a domestic setting need to be reviewed and updated because they are not fit for purpose, giving the guards powers to effectively deal with the problem would also be a major step forward.


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    #33
    Ellie Rotten Roughneck
    Posts: 0 ✭ Ellie Rotten Roughneck


    Never thought the day would arrive when I'd be defending a landlord, but alas, here we are.

    The landlord can do the square root of f*ck all. The tenants should be reported to the gardai and dealt with accordingly.


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    #34
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    housetypeb wrote: »
    I would hate it.
    But what if they were the owners having parties?
    What makes the landlord the man to quieten the neighborhood rather than the guards in this case.

    It's being outsourced to landlords just like the housing crisis. Because the authorities that should be dealing with don't want to.

    Maybe landlords should just bypass the RTB and go direct to court now, for all other disputes and evictions.


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    #35
    housetypeb
    Registered Users Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭housetypeb


    Crimsonred wrote: »
    ...

    The laws regarding noise pollution in a domestic setting need to be reviewed and updated because they are not fit for purpose, giving the guards powers to effectively deal with the problem would also be a major step forward.

    Exactly, the law,and its enforcement is the problem, blaming and expecting the landlord to solve the problems of society seems a step too far.


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    #36
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Never thought the day would arrive when I'd be defending a landlord, but alas, here we are.

    The landlord can do the square root of f*ck all. The tenants should be reported to the gardai and dealt with accordingly.

    Well the article implies the landlord can evict them. But falls short on actually saying that. I thought all disputes have to go to the RTB but this suggests they don't. You can skip that useless step and go to court for evictions. Calls into question the registration fee too, what's the point of that now.


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    #37
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,964 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Not allowed evict anyone during Covid restrictions. Possibly till the end of the year. Poor guy would probably be vilified by the social media socialist types if he did evict them.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Never thought the day would arrive when I'd be defending a landlord, but alas, here we are.

    Generally hated them as a class back when laws were weighted in ****ty landlords' favour and I had plenty of issues with bad landlords through the years. But I think things have swung round in recent years so the law is largely in ****ty tenants' favour now. If I was in a position of owning a house I no longer wanted to live in, I would definitely sell up rather than taking the risk of renting it out.


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    #38
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,451 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    He is too old to run his business properly that is a fact and not agist so keeping on top of the student and making sure they don't get out of hand has become difficult or else he just does not care but I would say it is the former.

    I would hazard a guess he is a wealthy man so why not either sell or pass it on to his sons or daughters if he has any or to some family member he is in his 80s why would he want to be dealing with this at that age.


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    #39
    martinr5232
    Registered Users Posts: 2,298 ✭✭✭martinr5232


    mariaalice wrote:
    He is too old to run his business properly that is a fact and not agist so keeping on top of the student and making sure they don't get out of hand has become difficult or else he just does not care but I would say it is the former.

    Why is it up to a landlord to police a tennants behaviour be it student or any other tennant ?? Surely once you are an adult its time to take responsibilty for your own actions.


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    #40
    Crimsonred
    Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭Crimsonred


    martinr5232 wrote: »
    Why is it up to a landlord to police a tennants behaviour be it student or any other tennant ?? Surely once you are an adult its time to take responsibilty for your own actions.

    Because the RTB says so?

    The landlord has a responsibility to neighbours (third parties) who are affected by the behaviour of tenants.

    A good landlord will check references, have a lease agreement in place etc before renting out his property, as a means to protect himself from hassle down the line, but not all landlords are that conscientious, more so when dealing with short term lets such as in the area around UCC where the big money is to be made during college term.

    Renting out to students causes major hassle but the profits to be made clearly are too much to resist for some.

    I think there is general agreement on here that the laws regarding the whole area are not fit for purpose.


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    #41
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Here's the funny thing

    From the RTB
    A landlord owes to each person who could be affected (for example by antisocial behaviour) a duty to enforce the responsibilities of the tenant(s) in the tenancy.

    A landlord is largely restricted in the means he can use for enforcement. These means might be summarised:

    ask the tenant nicely.
    write the tenant a strongly worded letted
    write a letter terminating the tenancy for breaching the conditions of the tenancy.

    If none of that works, landlord has to revert to the RTB.

    The issue in this case from what I can make out is the landlord hasn't gone through the above steps and followed through with the RTB.


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    #42
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Landlord can't if it's not registered.

    The tenants can, and so can a third party, the residents. But they didn't either.

    They all bypassed the RTB and went to court.


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    #43
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Crimsonred wrote: »
    Because the RTB says so? ...

    Oddly enough the RTB can only fine a landlord. They can't evict a tenant or fine them. That ultimately has to go to court.

    So really what the RTB says is pointless. No one other than a court can evict these tenants.


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    #44
    Crimsonred
    Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭Crimsonred


    beauf wrote: »
    Landlord can't if it's not registered.

    The tenants can, and so can a third party, the residents. But they didn't either.

    They all bypassed the RTB and went to court.

    Why didn't the landlord register these tenancies?

    The residemts were entitled to go to court, the landlord will have to pay their costs and his name is all over the national media .

    My guess is that he has been reported to the RTB too.


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    #45
    Crimsonred
    Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭Crimsonred


    beauf wrote: »
    Oddly enough the RTB can only fine a landlord. They can't evict a tenant or fine them. That ultimately has to go to court.

    So really what the RTB says is pointless. No one other than a court can evict these tenants.

    Going to court was a risk for the neighbours, if they lost they would have faced substantial legal costs and the landlord would be in a stronger position going forward.


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    #46
    newuser99999
    Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭newuser99999


    Crimsonred wrote: »
    The tenants moved in during the month of May, which is when the trouble started, his cocooning didn't prevent him from moving tenants into his properties during that time.

    How do you know when they moved in exactly?


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    #47
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Crimsonred wrote: »
    Why didn't the landlord register these tenancies?

    Where was that reported? I haven't seen it mentioned in the (admittedly very limited) articles I've read.


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    #48
    Crimsonred
    Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭Crimsonred


    newuser99999 wrote: »
    How do you know when they moved in exactly?

    UCC students moved out in late March because of covid-19 and students started to move back into the area in May, during lockdown.

    The hassle from the two houses started in May, as reported in the media.


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    #49
    Crimsonred
    Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭Crimsonred


    Graham wrote: »
    Where was that reported? I haven't seen it mentioned in the (admittedly very limited) articles I've read.

    The addresses of the two houses was mentioned in an Irish Times and I could not find them on the RTB register.


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    #50
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,446 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Crimsonred wrote: »
    The addresses of the two houses was mentioned in an Irish Times and I could not find them on the RTB register.

    Which is notoriously out of date


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    #51
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,923 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    I doubt there is anything a LL can do now since RTB says tenants are paramount. That is the problem right there, it should be fifty fifty at the very least.

    So a LL takes a case to RTB for ASB. Might take a few months. The LL might need proof. CCTV cannot operate from another person's house.

    Such a fkn mess.

    What a pity that the College doesn't say something. They are always silent. I'd ask them to make a statement on the matter at the very least!

    I'd never let a property in this country ever. But that's what Gov want, yep the REITS to take over the country for rentals. All cheer now.


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    #52
    Crimsonred
    Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭Crimsonred


    TheChizler wrote: »
    Which is notoriously out of date

    Fair enough, it seems odd that he wouldn't have registered them when there was trouble brewing but the tenants did move in during May.


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    #53
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Crimsonred wrote: »
    Fair enough, it seems odd that he wouldn't have registered them when there was trouble brewing but the tenants did move in during May.

    So you don't know if they are registered.
    You're assuming they are not registered.

    Why is it odd? The RTB can do very little for LLs.


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    #54
    newuser99999
    Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭newuser99999


    Crimsonred wrote: »
    Fair enough, it seems odd that he wouldn't have registered them when there was trouble brewing but the tenants did move in during May.

    It’s not odd at all. Plenty of landlords near UCC never even meet their tenants.


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    #55
    YellowBucket
    Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭YellowBucket


    I think we are infantilising college students a lot here these days. Undergraduates are typically 18-24 i.e. adults and they should be held fully responsible for their behaviour in scenarios like this.

    I find a lot of people are expecting universities to behave like secondary schools. For the most part they've very little contact with their students beyond lectures. I think we're risking extending childhood into our 20s the way things are going at the moment. Universities do not have any kind of pastural or developmental type role in the way a school has.

    It's a bit like expecting a gym to police its members behaviour out of hours and some students literally have about that much contact with the university.

    The residents absolutely do need to hold landlords and tenants responsible for this behaviour. They are the only people who can resolve it.

    If you keep throwing wild parties in a house, you should be evicted. It's as simple as that. There's no excuse for it. If that screws up your ability to hold down a university course, it's no different from it being a problem if you were doing that while working.

    I find we spend a lot of time in Ireland mollycoddling a group of people who are and always were in the past treated as grown ups, because they are grown ups!

    We're heading for a situation where people will be behaving like rebellious teenagers when they're 55.


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    #56
    Heckler
    Registered Users Posts: 3,326 ✭✭✭Heckler


    I used to live on Barrack street and thursday nights with the students were a nightmare. Shouting and roaring like animals from 10-4am. My bins kicked over, piss all over my door. Freshers and Rag week a special treat when it went up a notch.

    Kids let loose from home for the first time, can't hold their drink or know their limits. I live about 1 km from college road now and can hear them when the wind is blowing in the right direction. Must be a head wreck for residents living there.

    I was no saint when I was young but managed to behave more or less. Anyone doubting me take a drive up around Bandon/college road and try to restrain yourself from running over the tenth drunk idiot with a slab who steps in front of your car.


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    #57
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    YellowBucket wrote: »
    I think we are infantilising college students a lot here these days. Undergraduates are typically 18-24 i.e. adults and they should be held fully responsible for their behaviour in scenarios like this.

    I find a lot of people are expecting universities to behave like secondary schools. For the most part they've very little contact with their students beyond lectures. I think we're risking extending childhood into our 20s the way things are going at the moment. Universities do not have any kind of pastural or developmental type role in the way a school has.

    It's a bit like expecting a gym to police its members behaviour out of hours and some students literally have about that much contact with the university.

    The residents absolutely do need to hold landlords and tenants responsible for this behaviour. They are the only people who can resolve it.

    If you keep throwing wild parties in a house, you should be evicted. It's as simple as that. There's no excuse for it. If that screws up your ability to hold down a university course, it's no different from it being a problem if you were doing that while working.

    I find we spend a lot of time in Ireland mollycoddling a group of people who are and always were in the past treated as grown ups, because they are grown ups!

    We're heading for a situation where people will be behaving like rebellious teenagers when they're 55.

    All this students will be students, shur we were all like that once bullshıt, spouted by those who don't have to live near them.

    If I was within earshot of that place, they'd be getting some concrete presents through windows in the wee hours that should focus a few minds.


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    #58
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    All this students will be students, shur we were all like that once bullshıt, spouted by those who don't have to live near them....

    Don't see anyone defending the students in all this.

    The Garda and the college shouldn't be turning a blind eye to this.


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    #59
    Crimsonred
    Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭Crimsonred


    beauf wrote: »
    So you don't know if they are registered.
    You're assuming they are not registered.

    Why is it odd? The RTB can do very little for LLs.

    The addresses of the two houses in question were published in the Irish Times, neither of those houses are on the RTB register therefore it is safe to assume that they are not registered.

    It is odd because the local residents could have informed the RTB that these houses were occupied despite not being registered as such.


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    #60
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Crimsonred wrote: »
    The addresses of the two houses in question were published in the Irish Times, neither of those houses are on the RTB register therefore it is safe to assume that they are not registered.

    It is odd because the local residents could have informed the RTB that these houses were occupied despite not being registered as such.

    They may not be be registered. But you've been told a couple of times even if they were they might not appear in the list.

    You've also been told they don't need to register for a third party to raise a complaint with the RTB. The only person who can't raise a complaint if they are unregistered is the Landlord. The only person who can be fined by the RTB is the landlord. The only person who pays a fee to fund the RTB is the Landlord. The only person who can be fined for not registering is the Landlord.

    Seems fair. Can't imagine why it's not popular with Landlords.


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    #61
    Crimsonred
    Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭Crimsonred


    beauf wrote: »
    They may not be be registered. But you've been told a couple of times even if they were they might not appear in the list.

    You've also been told they don't need to register for a third party to raise a complaint with the RTB.     The only person who can't raise a complaint if they are unregistered is the Landlord. The only person who can be fined by the RTB is the landlord. The only person who pays a fee to fund the RTB is the Landlord. The only person who can be fined for not registering is the Landlord.

    Seems fair. Can't imagine why it's not popular with Landlords.

    It is likely that the residents have raised a complaint with the RTB aswell as going to the courts.

    I don't see the point of being able to check the RTB register online if it can't be relied upon to give up to date information.


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