Masks

ShineOn7 · 17-07-2020 01:17PM

Yes: surgical

Gardaí board Dublin-Cork train to respond to passenger refusing to wear a mask

https://www.thejournal.ie/gardai-train-face-masks-5152840-Jul2020/

Arrival · 17-07-2020 01:19PM

timmy_mallet wrote: »

1. Differences in reporting measures. Are you certain they are all reporting data in the same way?
2. Hong Kong has closed schools early amid an outbreak.
3. Czech Rep. is experiencing growing cases at the moment. You nor I cannot determine mask efficacy in retail settings preventing further spread or contributing to it.
4. Ireland suppressed with essentially no mask usage while retail outlets remained broadly open.
5. Public health policy and legislation based on poor or in fact no evidence is not something I could stand behind.

(Let me know next time how long you'd expect a response from me, thanks)

1. Would you suggest that they're ALL underreporting their stats so much to cause such a massive difference? Of course some difference in reporting is most likely the case, but no way could it cause such a drastic difference, that'd be bordering on conspiracy theory thinking. The fact is they've all done much better than we and most other countries have.

2. But so did we? In fact, as much as I criticise the government's overall handling of things, the closure of schools would've stood out as one of the things they did well on

3. They are now; what are the factors causing that? Are people not adhering to the guidelines as strictly, are they completely out of lockdown and back to normal again? We don't know. But while we were doing badly overall, they had a much better handle on things overall and they've said the masks helped. You and I can easily realise that masks are effective at blocking the droplets of the wearer and since people can be infectious without realising it it stands to reason that having everyone behave as if they have the virus and are trying to not infect other people has an overall positive effect of reducing the spread of the virus since those who are infected spread it less - this functions the same regardless of setting, and anywhere that is indoors is an area where the air doesn't circulate and move as much as it does outdoors.

4. Yes, due to the fact that the massive majority of people were at home for the majority of the time. We can't stay in lockdown forever and supermarkets cannot always maintain the strict social distancing rules that helped us stay safe during the lockdown - do you already forget how few people were allowed into the supermarket at once? Now with the lockdown over, there are way more people out and about and so the queues would be huge and unmanageable if they continued the same strict measures.

5. I'm sure you could get some reassurance from the fact that virologists and epidemiologists helped form the policies, not only in our country but in the countless other countries which have had the same in place before us. But at the end of the day you don't have to stand by them, you just have to adhere to them in order to help reduce the likelihood of you accidentally passing it on to strangers in public areas where contact tracing becomes difficult

drunkmonkey · 17-07-2020 01:20PM

No: other

MadYaker wrote: »

I was in a supermarket and another shop in Galway this morning and I was happy to see the number of people wearing some sort of face covering has shot up. Well over half in the supermarket. No idea why the government didn’t do this ages ago. I never get buses but from glancing at them it seems like everyone is wearing them now. Hopefully help us avoid another lockdown.

They didn't do it earlier because of NEPHT concerns over improper use. I don't believe that view has changed. They don't make the decisions that's Government are trying to make them mandatory to reopen the economy fully which is a doomed plan. They just won't face up to quarantine for visitors, it's the end game they need to stop flapping about and do it now.

drunkmonkey · 17-07-2020 01:22PM

No: other

ShineOn7 wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/gardai-train-face-masks-5152840-Jul2020/

We're the Guards wearing Masks when they boarded the train, were the guards who detained him and met him off the train in Templemore wearing Masks. No way.

timetogo1 · 17-07-2020 01:25PM

No: I don't care enough

timmy_mallet wrote: »

I don't have to prove the negative there, horse. You prove there was spread in retail settings.

Let me help you out. You said there was zero transmission in shops and now you don't want to back it up as it's negative (or zero).

So for your statement to be true then 100% of transmission have been outside of retail settings. Now it's a positive. Off you go.

Sconsey · 17-07-2020 01:27PM

No: other

timmy_mallet wrote: »

I don't have to prove the negative there, horse. You prove there was spread in retail settings.

No, no.... you said zero spread in shops, I don't know if there is or there isn't so nothing to prove. But you made a definitve statement.

You know for sure that there has been zero spread, how do you know that horse? you don't, you made it up and are trying to hide behind some bullsh1t on 'not having to prove the negative'. Admit it you just made it up.

odyssey06 · 17-07-2020 01:28PM

timmy_mallet wrote: »

We didn't suppress it particularly well at all: What kind of nonsense is this? It was suppressed. The govt and the medical experts said so.

Oh look, it's another selective deliberate misunderstanding of another person's post so you can make an ineffectual rebuttal.

odyssey06 · 17-07-2020 01:32PM

GT89 wrote: »

Public transport is 50% capacity now

Thanks, and yes that would not have happened without also bringing in mandatory mask wearing.

drunkmonkey · 17-07-2020 01:38PM

No: other

GazzaL wrote: »

Who's going to police people in shops if they're not wearing a mask? Will someone stacking shelves approach people who aren't wearing masks and say "Excuse me, madam, do you have a medical condition or special needs?"?

There not allowed due to GDPR. You can't be questioned as to your reason for not wearing a mask. Business need to be aware they can be prosecuted.

GazzaL · 17-07-2020 01:42PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

There not allowed due to GDPR. You can't be questioned as to your reason for not wearing a mask. Business need to be aware they can be prosecuted.

If they refuse to serve someone who isn't wearing a mask, it could be classed as discrimination too.

Wibbs · 17-07-2020 01:47PM

Yes: other

timmy_mallet wrote: »

We didn't suppress it particularly well at all: What kind of nonsense is this? It was suppressed. The govt and the medical experts said so.

The numbers beg to differ I'm afraid. Never mind our own medical experts were telling us things like living with a known contact was of such low risk that you should go about your day as normal until they got a "runny nose" more than a month after asymptomatic spread was well documented. Never mind our government telling people to visit elderly relatives in care homes when it was running through the elderly of Italy like the grim reaper on speed.

Cherry picking data to suit your worldview. Talk to us about Australia and New Zealand and their mandatory retail mask wearing rules and cases.

Now you're just being obtuse and that's about the kindest I can be. I directly referenced New Zealand, but it seems reading what people actually wrote is down your list of priorities along with basic logic and observation of the trajectory of infection and death rates in different nations. To quote myself for the third time. In case you missed it. Again: New Zealand over in the arse end of the planet who locked down their borders . Australia did similar and already has quite tight border control and isn't a hub nation for air traffic. Oh and since you ask Australia is in another stage of lockdown in areas like Melbourne and guess what? Masks are in the government's response. Funny that.

odyssey06 · 17-07-2020 01:48PM

GazzaL wrote: »

If they refuse to serve someone who isn't wearing a mask, it could be classed as discrimination too.

They can refuse to serve people with dogs unless the dog is for specific reasons such as a guide or assistance dog.
Is that discrmination or a GDPR breach?

GazzaL · 17-07-2020 01:49PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

They can refuse to serve people with dogs unless the dog is for specific reasons such as a guide or assistance dog.
Is that discrmination or a GDPR breach?

I'd be disgusted if a shop refused to serve someone because they had a guide dog.

odyssey06 · 17-07-2020 01:50PM

GazzaL wrote: »

I'd be disgusted if a shop refused to serve someone because they had a guide dog.

Please re-read what I wrote because I don't know what you are on about, your post is neither here or there.

Boggles · 17-07-2020 01:51PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Who's going to police it, just done a count there outside the local post office, 7 people queing outside, 3 of those had masks, 1 under their nose, 1 dirty as hell n95 mask, 1 using it as a chin strap, 3 more people in store no masks, 2 meter not being adheard to outside of store but compliant in store. Average age 70+, it's pension day.

There's absolutely no point making it law if nobody is going to enforce it. Don't expect retailers to become law enforcement.

It'll be interesting to see how they make this become law.

Wow you do a lot of watching of people.

Not creepy at all.

People will mask up, get use to it. It will be the norm for the next 18 months at least.

GazzaL · 17-07-2020 01:53PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

Please re-read what I wrote because I don't know what you are on about, your post is neither here or there.

My post is here, there and everywhere. Discrimination is just plain wrong.

odyssey06 · 17-07-2020 01:58PM

GazzaL wrote: »

My post is here, there and everywhere. Discrimination is just plain wrong.

1. But refusing entry to people with dogs who aren't don't have a legitimate medical need for them isn't discrimination.
2. Nor is it discrimination to refuse entry to people without masks who don't have legitimate medical grounds for doing so.

The shops can enforce (1) and have been doing so for years.
No reason why they can't enforce (2).

Charles Babbage · 17-07-2020 01:59PM

No: I don't care enough

GazzaL wrote: »

If they refuse to serve someone who isn't wearing a mask, it could be classed as discrimination too.

It is a form of discrimination that needs to allowed. Whatever their excuse a person without a mask is more likely to spread disease and they should not be in a shop.
We do not say that some people have bad eyesight but we will allow them drive anyway, to avoid discrimination. We should apply the same principles to disease control.

drunkmonkey · 17-07-2020 02:00PM

No: other

Boggles wrote: »

Wow you do a lot of watching of people.

Not creepy at all.

People will mask up, get use to it. It will be the norm for the next 18 months at least.

Yea it's a bit of a habit studying them in retail.

What's happening in 18mts? We finally going to Quarantine people coming in?

wonski · 17-07-2020 02:04PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

1. But refusing entry to people with dogs who aren't don't have a legitimate medical need for them isn't discrimination.
2. Nor is it discrimination to refuse entry to people without masks who don't have legitimate medical grounds for doing so.

The shops can enforce (1) and have been doing so for years.
No reason why they can't enforce (2).

The reason number 2 will not happen is a risk of customer getting aggressive etc.

I would say the guidance to retail workers issued by head offices now is similar everywhere. Wear a mask, but do not get into confrontation with customers that don't.

If you ever worked in retail you would know how difficult customers can be. They are there to serve customers, not to police the government rules.

odyssey06 · 17-07-2020 02:08PM

wonski wrote: »

The reason number 2 will not happen is a risk of customer getting aggressive etc. I would say the guidance to retail workers issued by head offices now is similar everywhere. Wear a mask, but do not get into confrontation with customers that don't.
If you ever worked in retail you would know how difficult customers can be. They are there to serve customers, not to police the government rules.

I take your point, but they already police multiple government rules.
How do they deal with customers who are difficult for other reasons such as shoplifters, those who come into a food establishment with a dog, those who come in with a drink or cigarette in their hands?

wonski · 17-07-2020 02:13PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

I take your point, but they already police multiple government rules.
How do they deal with customers who are difficult for other reasons such as shoplifters, those who come into a food establishment with a dog, those who come in with a drink or cigarette in their hands?

They deal on case by case basis.
Including asking Gardai to assist.

I am not saying the staff will do nothing, some will, some won't, but cannot be expected to police it in general.

It is a new rule only announced now, will take some time for near full compliance.

stephenjmcd · 17-07-2020 02:16PM

Beanybabog wrote: »

I was in Dundrum today and there’s a definite change in the numbers wearing masks- previously it’s was probably 10-20% now it’s probably around 80%+

I'm just back from Dundrum shopping centre 80%?? No chance. 50% at best and thats pushing it

Boggles · 17-07-2020 02:18PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Yea it's a bit of a habit studying them in retail.

What's happening in 18mts? We finally going to Quarantine people coming in?

You are "studying" them?

Yeah that is creepy.

Wear a mask it might save someones life.

At the very least it could prevent further restrictions.

odyssey06 · 17-07-2020 02:19PM

Boggles wrote: »

You are "studying" them?
Yeah that is creepy.

In fairness if you're in a shop behind a desk waiting for customers and there's a queue of people outside across the road you are probably going to scan them.
Given that mask wearing is the topic of the day you'll probably mentally make a blink estimate of how many are wearing masks.

drunkmonkey · 17-07-2020 02:20PM

No: other

I asked a couple of people today why they weren't wearing a masks, one replied they didn't think it was mandatory until Monday.
See that person is smart enough to know Covid doesn't work at weekends.
You've absolutely no idea they level of mentality retail workers have to deal with. Masks will be a novelty for a little while but that'll soon wear off when their queing outside in the rain and their mask is sogging wet.

Gardai will do nothing, if you've one person smoking a spliff in the shop and the other not wearing a mask, they'll take the hippy.

drunkmonkey · 17-07-2020 02:21PM

No: other

Boggles wrote: »

You are "studying" them?

Yeah that is creepy.

That's retail keep kiddo. Know your customers.

stephenjmcd · 17-07-2020 02:24PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I asked a couple of people today why they weren't wearing a masks, one replied they didn't think it was mandatory until Monday.
See that person is smart enough to know Covid doesn't work at weekends.

To be fair to them its not mandatory and it won't be on Monday either. We've been told the legislation will take time to draft.

Wouldn't exactly be going around questioning people at this stage

Boggles · 17-07-2020 02:26PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

In fairness if you're in a shop behind a desk waiting for customers and there's a queue of people outside across the road you are probably going to scan them.
Given that mask wearing is the topic of the day you'll probably mentally make a blink estimate of how many are wearing masks.

Yeah, but none of that actually happened.

It's the same dribbling scutter been touted ad nauseam on thread by a select few.

"I never seen anyone wear a mask properly".

It's a figment of their imagination, complete BS to paint the narrative that Ireland are the only country in the world that people can't wear a simple face covering.

Whether there is something wrong with them, they are on the troll or they are the "mey fraydumbs" brigade I couldn't tell you.

But they are to be ignored.

wonski · 17-07-2020 02:32PM

Mask watch at local Centra.

10-12 customers and 3 staff.

0 masks.

In fairness I usually spend there 3-4 minutes in total so not bothered by that at all. But I am guessing even after Monday we will be nowhere near 50%.

I don't hang around in shops anyway so no bother. And that's gonna be general attitude I think.

Masks

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