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Madeleine McCann

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Comments

  • #2912
    briany
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,156 ✭✭✭✭briany


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    I'm not blaming the parents but surely you understand leaving your kids out playing at home in Ireland where everyone knows each other and neighbours keep an eye out is a little different to leaving your children alone in Tourist hot spot in Europe ,Where different people come and go every day ?

    Did you know that on any public road in Ireland different people come and go each day? Some may even be from outside the area. People keep bringing the foreign country aspect into this, but if your child goes missing when you weren't watching them, it can be called gross negligence wherever you are.


  • #2913
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    briany wrote: »
    Did you know that on any public road in Ireland different people come and go each day? Some may even be from outside the area. People keep bringing the foreign country aspect into this, but if your child goes missing when you weren't watching them, it can be called gross negligence wherever you are.

    Did you know leaving your kids four nights in a row whilst you went for wine and nibbles with your mates is a fairly straightforward definition of parental neglect. The behaviour continued even after Maddie admonished Kate and Gerry at breakfast for leaving her and her brother alone crying.


  • #2914
    ittakestwo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,702 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Which leads us back to the only publicly known fact, Maddie disappeared in 2007. So everyone is entitled to offer their opinion without the self righteous proclamation of others.

    But there is no point in asserting something if you dont know the facts. Why would you say the parents were the last to see her alive after an announcement in June saying there is new evidence that makes investigators believe she is dead.


  • #2915
    limnam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,345 ✭✭✭limnam


    Back to these nonsensical comparisons.


    Leaving little Johnny out playing != leaving 3 kids under 4 in an unlocked apartment while you hit the cocktails and wine and dine.


    Stop trying to make it out to be anything other than what it was. Gross reckless negligence.


    This doesn't make them murderers or assist in any wild conspiracy.


    It's very plain and simple reckless negligence.


  • #2916
    briany
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,156 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Did you know leaving your kids four nights in a row whilst you went for wine and nibbles with your mates is a fairly straightforward definition of parental neglect.

    Yes, as this thread has exhaustively established, it was neglectful. Was it callously neglectful? Are the McCanns the real villains of the piece? Or were they just dumb and blasé?


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  • #2917
    MonsterCookie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 959 ✭✭✭MonsterCookie


    ittakestwo wrote: »
    But there is no point in asserting something if you dont know the facts. Why would you say the parents were the last to see her alive after an announcement in June saying there is new evidence that makes investigators believe she is dead.

    i guess what is meant by 'they were the last to see her alive' is that 'they are the last known to have seen her'...subtle but important difference...


  • #2918
    Cereal_Killer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26 ✭Cereal_Killer


    ittakestwo wrote: »
    And using the word "abandon" is not nasty?

    We dont even know the parents were the last people to see her alive. The public dont know what evidence the investigators have.

    Not when it’s the correct word. They consistently left two babies and a toddler alone while they went out with a group of friends drinking and eating. They knew their children had been awake and crying the night before. The fact the twins slept through the commotion of missing Madeline would have a more suspicious person wonder if the twins were under the influence of medication. It’s not nasty to point out what they did was dangerous and wreckless and neglectful.


  • #2919
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    ittakestwo wrote: »
    But there is no point in asserting something if you dont know the facts. Why would you say the parents were the last to see her alive after an announcement in June saying there is new evidence that makes investigators believe she is dead.

    There in lies the problem with behaviour such as yours, you claim I said the parents were the last to see her alive. I didn't.
    I have said I don't believe she left the apartment alive.
    The Germans have made two contradictory comments so until they put up or shut up I'll ignore them.
    If there is any part of my comment you have difficulty with please point it out and I will try to be clearer.


  • #2920
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    briany wrote: »
    Yes, as this thread has exhaustively established, it was neglectful. Was it callously neglectful? Are the McCanns the real villains of the piece? Or were they just dumb and blasé?

    In the absence of evidence we don't know who is responsible.
    As an aside though in Portugal the McCanns behaviour is and was criminal.
    Dumb is one night, being admonished by your child for leaving them alone yet still engaging in the same behaviour is reprehensible imo.


  • #2921
    sxt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭sxt


    briany wrote: »
    Everything's on the table, but any theories directly implicating the McCanns belong on a neglected corner of it, given the evidence that Bruckner was hanging around that area.

    The best thing to do is follow the evidence and facts.

    There is no evidence of an abduction.

    There is evidence that the mcanns tried to simulate an abduction.why?

    There is evidence that there was a corpse in that apartment. There was no record of anyone dying in that apartment. Who was that?


    The evidence that Bruckner was hanging around, what kind of evidence is that?


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  • #2922
    ittakestwo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,702 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    There in lies the problem with behaviour such as yours, you claim I said the parents were the last to see her alive. I didn't.
    I have said I don't believe she left the apartment alive.
    The Germans have made two contradictory comments so until they put up or shut up I'll ignore them.
    If there is any part of my comment you have difficulty with please point it out and I will try to be clearer.

    I never said you did, it was a general question if you reread the post originally replying to CeralKiller who claimed they were the last to see her alive in which you joined in.

    Lets discards the German evidence, it does not suit my agenda.


  • #2923
    dark crystal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    sxt wrote: »
    The best thing to do is follow the evidence and facts.

    There is no evidence of an abduction.

    Child is missing...hmmm.. Aliens? Invisibility? Anything is possible, I guess.
    There is evidence that the mcanns tried to simulate an abduction.why?

    No there isn't.
    There is evidence that there was a corpse in that apartment. There was no record of anyone dying in that apartment. Who was that?

    Evidence of a corpse? Where is it?
    The evidence that Bruckner was hanging around, what kind of evidence is that?

    His phone puts him there on the night. Why so dismissive of the evidence regarding a convicted child molester, yet so willing to believe two parents on holiday did the unthinkable?

    Tell me, how, when, where and why did the McCanns dump their daughter's dead body during the established timeline?


  • #2924
    limnam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,345 ✭✭✭limnam


    ittakestwo wrote: »
    I never said you did, it was a general question if you reread the post originally replying to CeralKiller who claimed they were the last to see her alive in which you joined in.

    Lets discards the German evidence, it does not suit my agenda.


    I'm not sure what evidence we're suppose to be discarding of.


    In relation to _this_ case. There has been very little provided.


    what he know was his phone pinged in the area. My understanding is he lived close enough to it?



    Apart from that, what evidence do we know of that we're discarding?


    You seem to be under the impression people don't want it to be him


    That's utter nonsense. Everyone wants whomever it was to be caught. It's not like we're all drinking buddy's of CB.


    If it was him it was him.


  • #2925
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    ittakestwo wrote: »
    I never said you did, it was a general question if you reread the post originally replying to CeralKiller who claimed they were the last to see her alive in which you joined in.

    Thank you acknowledging I never said it.
    I have no agenda with the Germans I find them contradictory , a position I feel is justified to hold until they present what evidence they have.


  • #2926
    ittakestwo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,702 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    Cereal_Killer wrote: »
    Not when it’s the correct word. They consistently left two babies and a toddler alone while they went out with a group of friends drinking and eating. They knew their children had been awake and crying the night before. The fact the twins slept through the commotion of missing Madeline would have a more suspicious person wonder if the twins were under the influence of medication. It’s not nasty to point out what they did was dangerous and wreckless and neglectful.

    Abandon is to intentionally leave something and never return to it. The parents did not abandon Madeleine. If they did they would not be campining for the last 13 years to find her. They would not have give a f''k about finding her if they abandoned her.


  • #2927
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    limnam wrote: »
    Back to these nonsensical comparisons.


    Leaving little Johnny out playing != leaving 3 kids under 4 in an unlocked apartment while you hit the cocktails and wine and dine.


    Stop trying to make it out to be anything other than what it was. Gross reckless negligence.


    This doesn't make them murderers or assist in any wild conspiracy.


    It's very plain and simple reckless negligence.

    If it’s a cut a dried case of child neglect and the McCanns are guilty of neglect then why were they not charged, and why were the surviving children not taken into care?


  • #2928
    limnam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,345 ✭✭✭limnam


    splinter65 wrote: »
    If it’s a cut a dried case of child neglect and the McCanns are guilty of neglect then why were they not charged, and why were the surviving children not taken into care?


    You're asking the wrong person.


  • #2929
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    There in lies the problem with behaviour such as yours, you claim I said the parents were the last to see her alive. I didn't.
    I have said I don't believe she left the apartment alive.
    The Germans have made two contradictory comments so until they put up or shut up I'll ignore them.
    If there is any part of my comment you have difficulty with please point it out and I will try to be clearer.

    If you think she wasn’t alive when she left the apartment then that means you think she was carried out dead. You must have some idea then how a dead Madeleine left the apartment. How when why and taken/carried by whom? If you can’t make at least attempt to answer then I’ll assume that you simply haven’t a clue what your talking about.


  • #2930
    limnam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,345 ✭✭✭limnam


    Tulsa seem to understand child neglect.


    "Neglect occurs when a child does not receive adequate care or supervision to the extent that the child is harmed physically or developmentally"


    I think it's safe to say. Box ticked.


  • #2931
    Cereal_Killer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26 ✭Cereal_Killer


    ittakestwo wrote: »
    Abandon is to intentionally leave something and never return to it. The parents did not abandon Madeleine. If they did they would not be campining for the last 13 years to find her. They would not have give a f''k about finding her if they abandoned her.


    abandon
    /əˈband(ə)n/
    Learn to pronounce
    verb
    1.
    cease to support or look after (someone); desert.



    They did cease to look after her.


    They did leave her intentionally, more than once. Children aren’t commodities you can drop and pick up when suits you.


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  • #2932
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    splinter65 wrote: »
    If it’s a cut a dried case of child neglect and the McCanns are guilty of neglect then why were they not charged, and why were the surviving children not taken into care?

    Would it not be better to put those questions of yours to UK child services and the Portuguese prosecution service? Instead of a randomer on Boards?


  • #2933
    ittakestwo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,702 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    limnam wrote: »
    I'm not sure what evidence we're suppose to be discarding of.

    you cant discard evidence you dont know of. The public dont know what evidence they have.


  • #2934
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    splinter65 wrote: »
    If you think she wasn’t alive when she left the apartment then that means you think she was carried out dead. You must have some idea then how a dead Madeleine left the apartment. How when why and taken/carried by whom? If you can’t make at least attempt to answer then I’ll assume that you simply haven’t a clue what your talking about.

    I answered all this to Walshb during your ban.


  • #2935
    ittakestwo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,702 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    Cereal_Killer wrote: »
    abandon
    /əˈband(ə)n/
    Learn to pronounce
    verb
    1.
    cease to support or look after (someone); desert.



    They did cease to look after her.


    They did leave her intentionally, more than once. Children aren’t commodities you can drop and pick up when suits you.

    lol, So if they deserted/abandon her, why are they looking for her for the last 13 years?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


  • #2936
    Cereal_Killer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26 ✭Cereal_Killer


    If they didn’t abandon/leave to fend for herself/desert her they wouldn’t have to look for her for 13 years. Had they looked after her, had she not been unattended, nobody would know who Madeline was. Unfortunately they were negligent and the poor child paid the price.


  • #2937
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    limnam wrote: »
    Tulsa seem to understand child neglect.


    "Neglect occurs when a child does not receive adequate care or supervision to the extent that the child is harmed physically or developmentally"


    I think it's safe to say. Box ticked.

    Why were they not charged with child neglect then? Why were the children not taken into care?


  • #2938
    dark crystal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    limnam wrote: »
    Tulsa seem to understand child neglect.

    "Neglect occurs when a child does not receive adequate care or supervision to the extent that the child is harmed physically or developmentally"

    I think it's safe to say. Box ticked.
    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Would it not be better to put those questions of yours to UK child services and the Portuguese prosecution service? Instead of a randomer on Boards?

    The McCanns were visited by social services in the UK, who clearly felt their parenting was of a sufficient enough standard that the twins were deemed to be in no danger whatsoever.

    Perhaps their training and standards are not up to those sitting in judgement of the parents on this thread...some of whom would have preferred the twins be placed in foster care for real, true atonement for their parents sins.


  • #2939
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Cereal_Killer wrote: »
    If they didn’t abandon/leave to fend for herself/desert her they wouldn’t have to look for her for 13 years. Had they looked after her, had she not been unattended, nobody would know who Madeline was. Unfortunately they were negligent and the poor child paid the price.

    Why have they been looking for this child that they do not love and neglected and abandoned and left to fend for herself all over the world for 13 years? Why did they not go home and forget about her?


  • #2940
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    limnam wrote: »
    You're asking the wrong person.

    No I’m asking you for your opinion. You insist as nauseum that they are neglectful parents and I am asking you why, if that is the case, in your opinion the twins were not taken into care by the social services and the McCanns charged with child neglect? You must have some idea?


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  • #2941
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    dark crystal wrote: »
    The McCanns were visited by social services in the UK, who clearly felt their parenting was of a sufficient enough standard that the twins were deemed to be in no danger whatsoever.

    Perhaps their training and standards are not up to those sitting in judgement of the parents on this thread...some of whom would have preferred the twins be placed in foster care for real, true atonement for their parents sins.

    No idea why you are addressing your reply to me as I did not ask these questions.


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