Masks

Jim_Hodge · 14-07-2020 04:26PM

Yes: homemade

GT89 wrote: »

I should hope they don't expect retail staff to wear masks if they are made mandatory in shops. I work in a shop and would find it extremely uncomfortable to wear a mask for long periods. Bus drivers don't have to wear them and rightly so as they have to be on the bus for long periods but nor should retail workers or any workers for that matter unless their actually dealing directly with CV19 patients or would use a mask in the course of their work anyway due to dust or spray paint.

From BBC News regarding retail workers

We’ve looked at ONS data on deaths registered involving coronavirus in England and Wales in the working age population (those aged 20 to 64 years) between 9 March and 25 May.

It shows that sales and retail assistants had high mortality rates when compared with rates among the working age population: 34.2 deaths per 100,000 men, and 15.7 deaths per 100,000 women.

This compares with 19.1 deaths per 100,000 men and 9.7 deaths per 100,000 women in the entire working age population.

But there are higher rates in other occupations (such as factory workers, taxi drivers and care workers) and the data has not been adjusted for factors such as ethnic group and place of residence.

It won't be compulsory for shop workers in England to wear a face covering because "it won't always be right for every setting in a retail environment", according to government minister George Eustice.

However, Mr Eustice says that many workers already wear coverings or are protected by a screen.

He argues that retailers "have been making the right judgements".

The face-covering requirement for customers will help to protect shop workers, according to Heath Secretary Matt Hancock. Speaking in Parliament, he said that shop workers had suffered disproportionately and that "the death rate of sales and retail assistants is 75% higher amongst men and 60% higher amongst women than in the general population".

In Scotland, where face coverings for customers have been compulsory since 10 July, shop staff also do not have to wear them, but it is "strongly recommended" in the guidance that they do.

is_that_so · 14-07-2020 04:35PM

No: other

skelly22 wrote: »

In theory - No. It obviously sounds ridiculous without me having to point it out. But it's the law.

There need to be a few steps to even come in direct conflict with the law. Gardai have to be present and a lecture is about as much as they will do based on their actions during this pandemic.

Coillte_Bhoy · 14-07-2020 07:32PM

is_that_so wrote: »

There need to be a few steps to even come in direct conflict with the law. Gardai have to be present and a lecture is about as much as they will do based on their actions during this pandemic.

Surely an on the spot €100 fine would be far more sensible and effective? Its a nonsense, nobody will be going to jail

is_that_so · 14-07-2020 07:53PM

No: other

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Surely an on the spot €100 fine would be far more sensible and effective? Its a nonsense, nobody will be going to jail

As others have suggested this is really aimed at large-scale compliance and it seems to be working. There will be no need to punish the fairly small number of "miscreants" with huge fines or anything else, when they can just be "discouraged" from using public transport.

Wibbs · 14-07-2020 08:13PM

Yes: other

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

From BBC News regarding retail workers

That's interesting alright J. Early on I had the thought that the government here should pick a few random supermarkets and test the workers for the virus. I thought it made sense as at the height of lockdown outside of healthcare people they were the most vulnerable and exposed and it would have given us a good idea of how easily this was spread and how active or inactive infections were in the general working population from teens to near pensioners. Seemed obvious to me at the time, but I never heard of any such study or moves towards one here. Then again the authorities have tended more towards reactive policies and delayed ones at that. Plus the jungle drums were saying hey look at the shop workers they're fine.

So in the UK at least it seems retail workers were more affected by it. Then again the UK's policy was all over the bloody place and delayed in a big way and they have one of the worst infected rates and death tolls in Europe, plus they have a much higher proportion of ethnic folks who seem to have been much more affected by the virus for whatever reason(s), so may be hard to draw that many comparisons with here.

saabsaab · 14-07-2020 09:57PM

Yes: homemade

It was announced that a random study of 5,000 of the general population to see what is out there. Sligo and Dublin were to be the areas selected.

tonysopprano · 15-07-2020 12:09AM

saabsaab wrote: »

It was announced that a random study of 5,000 of the general population to see what is out there. Sligo and Dublin were to be the areas selected.

Very convenient, after allowing those Iraqi FAKEUGEES to holiday in Iraq for 3 months and then come back to infect Sligo, in order to skew the figures, and of course Dublin, where all the Texans took public transport into town, probably stayed a night or 2 before heading to Kerry and the west.

Can people not see just what the hell is going on?

tonysopprano · 15-07-2020 02:52AM

khalessi wrote: »

We were told they didnt work because there was a shortage at the time and they were trying to keep medical masks for HCW.

Now that there are face masks or face coverings available this message has changed.

Masks work and I wore them for years as a HCW. Face coverings work and we should be wearing them in public spaces.

Masks didn't work when they were scarce, but lo and behold, if you make them at home, using available materials, they suddenly work.

SHEEPLE

tonysopprano · 15-07-2020 02:58AM

Saying that a mask made of kitchen roll or toilet roll or even a silk scarf, to combat a virus, is the equivalent of saying that a barbed wire fence will stop a mosquito, whether it is going in or going out.

Cop on.

dwayneshintzy · 15-07-2020 04:46AM

Yes: to protect myself and others

Have you links to official government advice, in Ireland or elsewhere, that masks should be made out of toilet roll?

Why do you think Asian countries have such low case numbers and death tolls compared to most of the West, tonysopprano?

MadYaker · 15-07-2020 05:16AM

Yes: surgical

tonysopprano wrote: »

Saying that a mask made of kitchen roll or toilet roll or even a silk scarf, to combat a virus, is the equivalent of saying that a barbed wire fence will stop a mosquito, whether it is going in or going out.

Cop on.

Anything that catches the droplets you breathe out will be effective.

khalessi · 15-07-2020 08:28AM

Yes: surgical

tonysopprano wrote: »

Masks didn't work when they were scarce, but lo and behold, if you make them at home, using available materials, they suddenly work.

SHEEPLE

Masks do work but they were not encouraged to be worn, so now people wont wear them, and people like yourself talk sheet about them.

Masks work as I used them for 20 years when nursing. They are available now so the government is trying to encourage people to wear them.

Jim_Hodge · 15-07-2020 08:39AM

Yes: homemade

tonysopprano wrote: »

Saying that a mask made of kitchen roll or toilet roll or even a silk scarf, to combat a virus, is the equivalent of saying that a barbed wire fence will stop a mosquito, whether it is going in or going out.

Cop on.

Where has the advice been to use a kitchen roll mask?

Cop on....please do.

YellowBucket · 15-07-2020 10:59AM

I wonder will the rollout of effective clear masks make a difference to uptake and acceptance?

Seems a lot of people are just finding not being able to see people’s facial expressions disconcerting. It’s a very significant issue if you’re deaf or hard of hearing too.

There are a few clear mask solutions developed but they’re not seemingly very available at the moment and I’m not talking about visors. They’re just clear mesh fibres.

In all likelihood we are going to need masks for a few years. Vaccination, assuming it works, isn’t going to solve this overnight.

I’m not arguing against wearing them. I just think we need to make them easier to wear so that people stop whining! They’re not that inconvenient, but the less on obstacle they are to wear the better the uptake and we are stuck with them for a while by the looks of things.

Hrududu · 15-07-2020 11:10AM

Honestly clear masks will come out and there will be a different excuse not to wear them

Seanergy · 15-07-2020 11:17AM

Yes: valved

The first mask the prof Luke O'Neil made was out of kitchen paper and that lad is an unoffical gov spokesperson.

Harris when he was Minister for Health suggested socks. Most brands of kitchen paper would actually be more effective than socks or 2 ply of cotton which is current gov reccommendations.

Plenty of excellent links throughout thread disecting the usefulness of the broad range of household materials available. Here's a vid that hasn't been posted before, material examination starts at 2 mins.

Seanergy · 15-07-2020 11:49AM

Yes: valved

The rollout?

I didn't buy into the clear leaf mask(3mill in backing so far) but promoted it on thread #3937

I certainly miss some of the faces but I defo don't miss the droplets. In conversations with grassroot efforts worldwide about this but here in Ireland & on this thread we can't get past our freedums and 2 ply of cotton.

If the salt solution for masks that is being tested in Canada works in killing the virus then maybe clear mask's will be made out of salt not plastic in the future.

YellowBucket · 15-07-2020 11:56AM

At the moment cotton, paper and linen are the best options we have but it does seem like this is something that will evolve if there’s going to be a demand for them in the medium term. Where there’s a market, someone’s going to come up with slicker and more polished solutions.

We also need to improve the fit. I’ve ordered a few cotton masks and most of them are either too small, too short or have non adjustable ear loops which makes them very ineffective.

Some of the simple medical mask designs are way better and easier to wear.

na1 · 15-07-2020 12:58PM

khalessi wrote: »

Masks do work but they were not encouraged to be worn, so now people wont wear them, and people like yourself talk sheet about them.

Masks work as I used them for 20 years when nursing. They are available now so the government is trying to encourage people to wear them.

Unless they have the proper one way valve, masks are dangerous to your health!

They reduce the % of the oxygen in the air you breath. Effectively you are breathing the mix of the fresh air and the air you've exhaled.
People with breathing difficulties might have serious health problems when wearing them for a significant amount of time

Stark · 15-07-2020 01:03PM

No: other

na1 wrote: »

Unless they have the proper one way valve, masks are dangerous to your health!

They reduce the % of the oxygen in the air you breath. Effectively you are breathing the mix of the fresh air and the air you've exhaled.

BS of the highest order. Plenty of skeptics have tested this hypothesis with oximeters and found zero change in blood oxygen levels while wearing masks. It's just the conspiracy theorists/Jim Corr wannabes who continue to peddle this myth.

If you were wearing a respirator, it would be a different story but not for the cloth/surgical masks that the general public would be wearing.

I do training at an aerial acrobatics studio which has recently reopened and requires masks and haven't had any breathing issues despite doing hard exercise. Only issue I've had is my face getting uncomfortably warm. If we can do high intensity fitness training without issue, then you can walk around a supermarket/sit on a bus without going into oxygen debt.

Hurrache · 15-07-2020 01:07PM

na1 wrote: »

Unless they have the proper one way valve, masks are dangerous to your health!

They reduce the % of the oxygen in the air you breath. Effectively you are breathing the mix of the fresh air and the air you've exhaled.
People with breathing difficulties might have serious health problems when wearing them for a significant amount of time

A cross post from another thread to fight off the ignorance and misinformation......

Several doctors, who wear masks daily for years, have posted videos showing them putting on masks, testing their blood oxygen levels at different points, and showing no issue. One guy even wore several masks simultaneously without a problem.

https://twitter.com/drjoshuawolrich/status/1281310674833063939

Stark · 15-07-2020 01:13PM

No: other

I like the way someone summed up the hoax nonsense: "We're meant to believe that the pores in the fabric are large enough to let entire virus particles through but small enough to stop oxygen/carbon dioxide molecules from getting through". I'm starting to think we need to make science classes mandatory in school.

khalessi · 15-07-2020 01:23PM

Yes: surgical

na1 wrote: »

Unless they have the proper one way valve, masks are dangerous to your health!

They reduce the % of the oxygen in the air you breath. Effectively you are breathing the mix of the fresh air and the air you've exhaled.
People with breathing difficulties might have serious health problems when wearing them for a significant amount of time

I have to call bull**** here, I never saw a surgeon collapse due to lack of oxygen when wearing a face mask. Also a lot of consultants have put videos on YouTube and others sites dispelling that myth.

Christ on a bike we would have people dying during surgery, due to surgeons fainting left right and center if that was the case!!

na1 · 15-07-2020 01:27PM

Hurrache wrote: »

A cross post from another thread to fight off the ignorance and misinformation......

Several doctors, who wear masks daily for years, have posted videos showing them putting on masks, testing their blood oxygen levels at different points, and showing no issue. One guy even wore several masks simultaneously without a problem.

https://twitter.com/drjoshuawolrich/status/1281310674833063939

Lets do it this way:
You show me athletes (sprinter/skiing) who can demonstrate the same results with mask, and I will agree with you.

na1 · 15-07-2020 01:31PM

Stark wrote: »

I like the way someone summed up the hoax nonsense: "We're meant to believe that the pores in the fabric are large enough to let entire virus particles through but small enough to stop oxygen/carbon dioxide molecules from getting through". I'm starting to think we need to make science classes mandatory in school.

Who said that?
The pores are not air-proof, no problem, but they DO create an obstacle for the exhaled CO2 to travel far enough to REDUCE the O2 level in your lungs.

If you don't believe me, try to convince athletes to wear masks during the competitions.

na1 · 15-07-2020 01:33PM

khalessi wrote: »

I have to call bull**** here, I never saw a surgeon collapse due to lack of oxygen when wearing a face mask. Also a lot of consultants have put videos on YouTube and others sites dispelling that myth.

Christ on a bike we would have people dying during surgery, due to surgeons fainting left right and center if that was the case!!

I never saw a smoker collapsed while smoking, does it mean that smoking is harmless?

Tork · 15-07-2020 01:36PM

Yes: to protect others

Are you a medical doctor na1?

na1 · 15-07-2020 01:38PM

Tork wrote: »

Are you a medical doctor na1?

You don't have to be a doctor to understand the laws of physics.
And yes I do have a degree in physics.

Hurrache · 15-07-2020 01:38PM

na1 wrote: »

Lets do it this way:
You show me athletes (sprinter/skiing) who can demonstrate the same results with mask, and I will agree with you.

I don't care if you agree with me or not, you're posting nonsense.

na1 wrote: »

You don't have to be a doctor to understand the laws of physics.
And yes I do have a degree in physics.

I doubt you do.

khalessi · 15-07-2020 01:41PM

Yes: surgical

na1 wrote: »

I never saw a smoker to collapse while smoking, does it mean that smoking is harmless?

Firstly, we all know smoking is bad and this is from other sources rather than waiting for them to collapse due to COPD or whatever. Xrays blood tests etc., you know that voodoo.

Secondly, do you not think that surgeons collapsing all around the world during surgeries would have been reported by now in a journalitic expose or are the illuminati keeping it quiet?:rolleyes:

Masks do not cause oxygen levels to drop see the video below and there are plenty more on the internet.

Hurrache wrote: »

A cross post from another thread to fight off the ignorance and misinformation......

Several doctors, who wear masks daily for years, have posted videos showing them putting on masks, testing their blood oxygen levels at different points, and showing no issue. One guy even wore several masks simultaneously without a problem.

https://twitter.com/drjoshuawolrich/status/1281310674833063939

Masks

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