Is it just me or have SF vanished?

FrancieBrady · 14-07-2020 07:23PM

Truthvader wrote: »

The subtext of course being that it is OK to murder informers or politicians. Any wonder Francie wont go near the Guards

And to be clear the murder of British Soldiers is equally murder in my view.

Like other posters caught out and no longer able to bull**** their way out of the cul de sacs they end up in, you have now constructed a lie about me and will continue to use it.

You lie Truth, think hard about the honesty of your position here.

RandomViewer · 14-07-2020 08:27PM

Truthvader wrote: »

Had to Google that. I assume you are referring to "Seamus McElwaine".Maybe get O'Broin to check the spelling in future.

What I discovered is that McElwaine murdered 10 people in his miserable useless life before being caught preparing a bomb to murder more (I assume this is the craven reference to "active service") He was wounded, questioned and murdered by the SAS. Yep a war crime no doubt- though hard to feel much sympathy. The soldiers should have been prosecuted. Not really the same as murdering kids out buying mothers day cards is it?

This guy would be your sort of hero Truthy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Jackson
Blueshirts probably have their own little memorial for him

RandomName2 · 14-07-2020 08:52PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well QED.

Simplify when you are caught out for an answer

None of us with Irish ancestry are above what happened in the north.
Nobody anywhere in fact, is above it, when pushed or ignored or threatened enough.

Another fact of history the high moral grounders ignore

Not everyone behaved like an animal in the north.

The SDLP and UUP were by and large decent political parties, not tied to death squads.

Everyone has a choice, and some of us remember.

Apologizing and distancing yourself from sin doesn't absolve you of its guilt, but it would be a start, a start which honestly I have not really begun to witness from a certain nationalist party that straddles the border.

RandomViewer · 14-07-2020 09:24PM

RandomName2 wrote: »

Not everyone behaved like an animal in the north.

The SDLP and UUP were by and large decent political parties, not tied to death squads.

Everyone has a choice, and some of us remember.

Apologizing and distancing yourself from sin doesn't absolve you of its guilt, but it would be a start, a start which honestly I have not really begun to witness from a certain nationalist party that straddles the border.

UUP were no better than the DUP, bit more educated, put on accent but a dirty bigot at the end of the day

FrancieBrady · 14-07-2020 09:51PM

RandomName2 wrote: »

Not everyone behaved like an animal in the north.

The SDLP and UUP were by and large decent political parties, not tied to death squads.

Everyone has a choice, and some of us remember.

Apologizing and distancing yourself from sin doesn't absolve you of its guilt, but it would be a start, a start which honestly I have not really begun to witness from a certain nationalist party that straddles the border.

Totally disagree on the UUP front, the representitives of the sectarian and bigoted state the British tried to shore up.

If you read the timeline or lived through it you will see that being decent wasn't going to change anything, in fact it brought worse to the doors of Nationalists and Catholics.
The SDLP were too ready to acquiesce and settle for less, and did and paid the price for being a part of the problem.

Truthvader · 14-07-2020 10:13PM

This is fascinating stuff. I clearly said McElwains killers should have been prosecuted but the Sinn Fein / IRA cheerleaders can't contain their rage. Wonder why. Almost a mental health issue at this point.

Truthvader · 14-07-2020 10:20PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well QED.

Simplify when you are caught out for an answer

None of us with Irish ancestry are above what happened in the north.
Nobody anywhere in fact, is above it, when pushed or ignored or threatened enough.

Another fact of history the high moral grounders ignore

Poor poor Francie so morally disorientated he views not murdering as high moral ground. Its not Francie it is sea level basic humanity for anyone not spiritually infected

Truthvader · 14-07-2020 10:29PM

jm08 wrote: »

He was serving 30 years for the killing of two British Security people when he escaped, not 10 as you are trying to claim here. It seems you think the British Army / SAS can be judge, jury and executioner.

Never heard of him before. The Sinn Fein IRA fanboys brought him up. Googled him. Murdered two unarmed named men and suspected to be involved in "at least 10 other killings" That makes 12. Google him yourself and make up your own mind

smurgen · 14-07-2020 10:31PM

FFG government in crisis mode so the fanboys pile in to bump this thread to speak of old wives tails. Don't feed the trolls lads!

FrancieBrady · 14-07-2020 10:43PM

Truthvader wrote: »

Poor poor Francie so morally disorientated he views not murdering as high moral ground. Its not Francie it is sea level basic humanity for anyone not spiritually infected

You were asked a question about the origins of the conflict/war and what led people to do what I will call yet again, the wrong thing and instead of answering you climbed up on to the lecturing higher moral ground again to try and demean people. How typical of the lazy.

maccored · 14-07-2020 11:34PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh....your one of those,who upon cant debate,dismisses anyone,who dare hold different view as mentally ill

Par the course for ffg arrogance really :rolleyes:

i think its the old schoolyard bully routine - the 'if you disagree with me you are stupid' idea you see posters trying, and those who hate the shinners have the 'SF voters are poor and stupid' attitude. never works - it just highlights the lack a point.

maccored · 14-07-2020 11:52PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Didnt david trimble also go on a victory orange parade after they burning to death of catholic schoolkids in 1998.....quality middle of the road people alright

him and ian also had a little jig at garvahey road. Always amases me that even though it humes and adams who took the peace process to a stage where it was taken seriously, trimble for some reason gets a noble peace prize along with john hume. pure optics.

At the time of the Northern Bank Robbery, Trimble was under pressure (as far as i can remember anyway) to shake hands with adams, or in some way start to talk to SF about something. Im going by memory so there was some reason why he wouldnt talk to someone somewhere on the republican side.

Then the biggest bank robbery of the century takes places, the IRA are apparently the culprits - even though (what I suspect was a pay off of) 50 grand was found in a well protected, camera strewn RUC leisure centre. Whereas - coming on 2 decades later there's no proof of direct involvement with the IRA (bar a fella who had been a SF councillor in the past with a boxful of money, which Im pretty sure has never proven to be from the robbery).

Trimble though, didnt need to have to talk to SF now. Wasnt that lucky for him!
Plus the RUC - who were whinging about losing danger money since there was peace - now had a nice retirement fund.

Throw in a gullible public and you have a genius solution to multiple complex issues. They were good at that - the unionists, british and loyalists. brilliant at deflecting the attention.

15-07-2020 12:06AM

Adam9213 wrote: »

The PIRA were exploding hundreds of bombs on economic targets every year, in 1972 they exploded 1300 bombs on economic targets almost every single one of these bombings no one was killed from they would phone in a warning that the bomb will explode in 30 minutes enough time to clear the area but not enough time to disarm the bomb.

The RIRA tried to do this and obviously messed up, even a dog in northern Ireland would have nothing but negative effects for them.

The planted the second bomb in the path of those escaping the first. Nothing accidental about that

maccored · 15-07-2020 12:14AM

SouthWesterly wrote: »

The planted the second bomb in the path of those escaping the first. Nothing accidental about that

not civilians, but soldiers or security forces I'd assume they'd be trying to kill.

when people try to kill each other, they usually try to kill each other. thats the point of people fighting, ultimately. There was a shoot to kill policy on the British side - which the other side pretty well expected. It just would have been nicer if the british would admit that policy to the general public.

even today there's people who don't believe a government would recklessly target a section of the population they're meant to serve, because of their religion. when it comes to targeting IRA people, thats what they were. very, very reckless and more likely or not had a loyalist gang doing the dirty work. lots of innocent people then were targeted and killed.

No side hadn't caused harm.

markodaly · 15-07-2020 12:43AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This isn't rocket science really Mark.
The goal was to force a British withdrawal because the British protection of the sectarian state was what was causing the problems for nationalists. A terror campaign in England was seen as the way to do that. Defence turned into attack...it isn't exactly unique in that regard.

So in essence, the Warrington bombing along with most of the Provo campaign had nothing to do with defending Nationalists. It was a terrorist campaign based on the whims of a minority based on trying to force a military and politician withdrawal from the North, something the Provos had no mandate for at all?

In your world, killing a 3-year-old toddler was justified, and then you give out to others who call the Provos sociopaths?

markodaly · 15-07-2020 12:47AM

maccored wrote: »

how would you know if they did or not markodaly?

How do we know the New IRA don't have huge support among Nationalists in the North?
How do we know the Omagh bombing had huge support among Nationalists in the North?

FrancieBrady · 15-07-2020 12:53AM

markodaly wrote: »

So in essence, the Warrington bombing along with most of the Provo campaign had nothing to do with defending Nationalists. It was a terrorist campaign based on the whims of a minority based on trying to force a military and politician withdrawal from the North, something the Provos had no mandate for at all?

In your world, killing a 3-year-old toddler was justified, and then you give out to others who call the Provos sociopaths?

Where have I said any of it was 'justified ark.

And seriously...a person who professes to be knoledgeable of history has never heard of the concept of 'defence turning into attack' - 'attack is the best form of defence'...really Mark?

Getting the British to relinquish their occupation of a part of this island was the only way people could see to defend themselves...not a hard concept to grasp.

Are Ameican and British troops 'sociopaths' when they kill children? The British killed 18 of them here in the early days of the conflict/war...that's 18 children Mark.

Why wouldn't you select them when you want to emote...are Catholic/Nationalist children ever going to get a turn being the selective victim du jour?

maccored · 15-07-2020 12:54AM

markodaly wrote: »

How do we know the New IRA don't have huge support among Nationalists in the North?
How do we know the Omagh bombing had huge support among Nationalists in the North?

why are you asking me questions?

maccored · 15-07-2020 12:59AM

markodaly wrote: »

How do we know the New IRA don't have huge support among Nationalists in the North?
How do we know the Omagh bombing had huge support among Nationalists in the North?

It didnt. Im from Omagh and have family who were witnesses on the day. i know it didnt have widescale support at all. Personally I think the RUC have a few questions to answer too. someone with power didnt like the peace process I think as that bomb shouldnt have reached omagh, considering they knew it was on the way. nevermind why people were herded to the bottom of market street rather than the bus debot - which was the place you'd always be directed to during a bombscare in the town..

jm08 · 15-07-2020 01:03AM

markodaly wrote: »

How do we know the New IRA don't have huge support among Nationalists in the North?
How do we know the Omagh bombing had huge support among Nationalists in the North?

Process of elimination. Sinn Fein (who are hated by dissident republicans) are getting a large share of the nationalist vote.

I think pretty much everyone condemned that bombing. Bear in mind that more catholics (18) were killed in that bombing than protestants (11).

cyllyn28 · 15-07-2020 01:04AM

markodaly wrote: »

In your world, killing a 3-year-old toddler was justified, and then you give out to others who call the Provos sociopaths?

West Brits like you don't criticize your British when they bomb villages in Afghanistan and Iraq, and butcher many 3-year-old children.....Because you're a wannabe Brit....and a conservative.

markodaly · 15-07-2020 01:06AM

maccored wrote: »

why are you asking me questions?

Because you asked a question and I have answered it for you with mine.

If you cannot answer them, then you have your own answer to my question.

markodaly · 15-07-2020 01:08AM

cyllyn28 wrote: »

West Brits like you don't criticize your British when they bomb villages in Afghanistan and Iraq, and butcher many 3-year-old children.....Because you're a wannabe Brit....and a conservative.

Ah West Brits.... Ah, whatabout...

Yea, sorry I have a thing against planting bombs in the middle of an English or Northern Ireland market town on a Saturday afternoon.
Silly me, for thinking murdering innocent people that way is wrong.

markodaly · 15-07-2020 01:10AM

jm08 wrote: »

Process of elimination. Sinn Fein (who are hated by dissident republicans) are getting a large share of the nationalist vote.

I think pretty much everyone condemned that bombing. Bear in mind that more catholics (18) were killed in that bombing than protestants (11).

The fact that you have to draw up a sectarian scorecard into who was killed in Omagh says it all tbh.

SF only got their vote once their Provo cousins surrendered their arms.
During the height of the campaign, they were going nowhere politically.

cyllyn28 · 15-07-2020 01:16AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Are Ameican and British troops 'sociopaths' when they kill children? The British killed 18 of them here in the early days of the conflict/war...that's 18 children Mark.

Mark is a Fine Gael voting West Brit....He supports the British class warfare in Northern Ireland...He'd love the Garda to go around randomly executing working class children, in the same acts of terror.

I do not support the shinners...They are not willing to do to Mark's kind what is needed to be done...and many are conservatives, equally as degenerate. Our nation can only truly be free, when it rids itself of the conservative tapeworms the British left behind. The are not the Irish people...they are the worms who feed on the Irish people...

markodaly · 15-07-2020 01:18AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Where have I said any of it was 'justified ark.

And seriously...a person who professes to be knoledgeable of history has never heard of the concept of 'defence turning into attack' - 'attack is the best form of defence'...really Mark?

Getting the British to relinquish their occupation of a part of this island was the only way people could see to defend themselves...not a hard concept to grasp.

Are Ameican and British troops 'sociopaths' when they kill children? The British killed 18 of them here in the early days of the conflict/war...that's 18 children Mark.

Why wouldn't you select them when you want to emote...are Catholic/Nationalist children ever going to get a turn being the selective victim du jour?

You justified the Provo campaign by stating that they were 'defending' the Nationalist community. You like to paint the picture of brave volunteers standing at the end of the road, protecting it against loyalist mobs
.. yet I then ask how did the Warrington bombing protect Nationalists on that same road... and the simple answer is that its doesn't, and never did.

The bombing campaign was purely trying to force the British government to the table to try and force a withdrawal. This is on record from senior SF and PIRA leaders.
The Provo campaign had next to nothing to do with protecting their community and more to do with the old narrative of fighting for Ireland's freedom and a United Ireland, something they ultimately failed to do.

This is the great myth that has arrisen over the last few years. The Provo campaign was really about civil rights and equality, not about a United Ireland or British withdrawal from the North, yet we have 25 years of senior IRA and SF leaders stating that the campaign of violence was to achieve that British withdrawl.

Now we have people here trying to spin that yarn.

So again.... how exactly did killing two boys in Warrington protect that nationalist living in Northern Ireland?

jm08 · 15-07-2020 01:19AM

Truthvader wrote: »

Never heard of him before. The Sinn Fein IRA fanboys brought him up. Googled him. Murdered two unarmed named men and suspected to be involved in "at least 10 other killings" That makes 12. Google him yourself and make up your own mind

How do you know they were unarmed. One was UDR and the other RUC which he got 30 years for. If there was proof that he had done those killings, why was he not put before a judge and jury like in most civilised countries and not up to the SAS to be judge, jury and executioner.

maccored · 15-07-2020 01:27AM

markodaly wrote: »

Because you asked a question and I have answered it for you with mine.

If you cannot answer them, then you have your own answer to my question.

go away with that.

I asked you a question which you blithely didnt answer, and instead asked me questions on unrelated subjects. Do you forget other people can read your posts too?

maccored · 15-07-2020 01:28AM

markodaly wrote: »

You justified the Provo campaign by stating that they were 'defending' the Nationalist community. You like to paint the picture of brave volunteers standing at the end of the road, protecting it against loyalist mobs
.. yet I then ask how did the Warrington bombing protect Nationalists on that same road... and the simple answer is that its doesn't, and never did.

The bombing campaign was purely trying to force the British government to the table to try and force a withdrawal. This is on record from senior SF and PIRA leaders.
The Provo campaign had next to nothing to do with protecting their community and more to do with the old narrative of fighting for Ireland's freedom and a United Ireland, something they ultimately failed to do.

This is the great myth that has arrisen over the last few years. The Provo campaign was really about civil rights and equality, not about a United Ireland or British withdrawal from the North, yet we have 25 years of senior IRA and SF leaders stating that the campaign of violence was to achieve that British withdrawl.

Now we have people here trying to spin that yarn.

So again.... how exactly did killing two boys in Warrington protect that nationalist living in Northern Ireland?

rights and equality WAS the brits out of the north.

why are you asking about the two kids from warrington? Whats the point in that? Cant someone then type the name of another victim from caused by the security forces and then you have this boring thread where victims names are being thrown around like you knew them or something.

I dont understand the logic behind why you're even asking some of the questions you're asking. neither side played fair and we all know that. well - maybe all but you.

jm08 · 15-07-2020 01:32AM

markodaly wrote: »

The fact that you have to draw up a sectarian scorecard into who was killed in Omagh says it all tbh.

SF only got their vote once their Provo cousins surrendered their arms.
During the height of the campaign, they were going nowhere politically.

You were asking questions about nationalists supporting the Omagh bombing. The obvious answer is to point out that catholic/nationalists were killed in the Omagh bombing which you seem to be unaware of.

There was Direct Rule from Westminister at the time which Sinn Fein were abstaining from anyway, so I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

Is it just me or have SF vanished?

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