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Is it just me or have SF vanished?

Pkiernan

I haven't seen or heard anything from Mary Lou, Slab Murphy and other good Republicans in ages.

What's going on?

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maccored

SouthWesterly wrote: »

The planted the second bomb in the path of those escaping the first. Nothing accidental about that

not civilians, but soldiers or security forces I'd assume they'd be trying to kill.

when people try to kill each other, they usually try to kill each other. thats the point of people fighting, ultimately. There was a shoot to kill policy on the British side - which the other side pretty well expected. It just would have been nicer if the british would admit that policy to the general public.

even today there's people who don't believe a government would recklessly target a section of the population they're meant to serve, because of their religion. when it comes to targeting IRA people, thats what they were. very, very reckless and more likely or not had a loyalist gang doing the dirty work. lots of innocent people then were targeted and killed.

No side hadn't caused harm.

[Deleted User]

Adam9213 wrote: »

The PIRA were exploding hundreds of bombs on economic targets every year, in 1972 they exploded 1300 bombs on economic targets almost every single one of these bombings no one was killed from they would phone in a warning that the bomb will explode in 30 minutes enough time to clear the area but not enough time to disarm the bomb.

The RIRA tried to do this and obviously messed up, even a dog in northern Ireland would have nothing but negative effects for them.

The planted the second bomb in the path of those escaping the first. Nothing accidental about that

maccored

Deleted User wrote: »

Didnt david trimble also go on a victory orange parade after they burning to death of catholic schoolkids in 1998.....quality middle of the road people alright

him and ian also had a little jig at garvahey road. Always amases me that even though it humes and adams who took the peace process to a stage where it was taken seriously, trimble for some reason gets a noble peace prize along with john hume. pure optics.

At the time of the Northern Bank Robbery, Trimble was under pressure (as far as i can remember anyway) to shake hands with adams, or in some way start to talk to SF about something. Im going by memory so there was some reason why he wouldnt talk to someone somewhere on the republican side.

Then the biggest bank robbery of the century takes places, the IRA are apparently the culprits - even though (what I suspect was a pay off of) 50 grand was found in a well protected, camera strewn RUC leisure centre. Whereas - coming on 2 decades later there's no proof of direct involvement with the IRA (bar a fella who had been a SF councillor in the past with a boxful of money, which Im pretty sure has never proven to be from the robbery).

Trimble though, didnt need to have to talk to SF now. Wasnt that lucky for him!
Plus the RUC - who were whinging about losing danger money since there was peace - now had a nice retirement fund.

Throw in a gullible public and you have a genius solution to multiple complex issues. They were good at that - the unionists, british and loyalists. brilliant at deflecting the attention.

maccored

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh....your one of those,who upon cant debate,dismisses anyone,who dare hold different view as mentally ill

Par the course for ffg arrogance really :rolleyes:

i think its the old schoolyard bully routine - the 'if you disagree with me you are stupid' idea you see posters trying, and those who hate the shinners have the 'SF voters are poor and stupid' attitude. never works - it just highlights the lack a point.

FrancieBrady

Truthvader wrote: »

Poor poor Francie so morally disorientated he views not murdering as high moral ground. Its not Francie it is sea level basic humanity for anyone not spiritually infected

You were asked a question about the origins of the conflict/war and what led people to do what I will call yet again, the wrong thing and instead of answering you climbed up on to the lecturing higher moral ground again to try and demean people. How typical of the lazy.

smurgen

FFG government in crisis mode so the fanboys pile in to bump this thread to speak of old wives tails. Don't feed the trolls lads!

Truthvader

jm08 wrote: »

He was serving 30 years for the killing of two British Security people when he escaped, not 10 as you are trying to claim here. It seems you think the British Army / SAS can be judge, jury and executioner.

Never heard of him before. The Sinn Fein IRA fanboys brought him up. Googled him. Murdered two unarmed named men and suspected to be involved in "at least 10 other killings" That makes 12. Google him yourself and make up your own mind

Truthvader

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well QED.

Simplify when you are caught out for an answer

None of us with Irish ancestry are above what happened in the north.
Nobody anywhere in fact, is above it, when pushed or ignored or threatened enough.

Another fact of history the high moral grounders ignore

Poor poor Francie so morally disorientated he views not murdering as high moral ground. Its not Francie it is sea level basic humanity for anyone not spiritually infected

Truthvader

This is fascinating stuff. I clearly said McElwains killers should have been prosecuted but the Sinn Fein / IRA cheerleaders can't contain their rage. Wonder why. Almost a mental health issue at this point.

FrancieBrady

RandomName2 wrote: »

Not everyone behaved like an animal in the north.

The SDLP and UUP were by and large decent political parties, not tied to death squads.

Everyone has a choice, and some of us remember.

Apologizing and distancing yourself from sin doesn't absolve you of its guilt, but it would be a start, a start which honestly I have not really begun to witness from a certain nationalist party that straddles the border.

Totally disagree on the UUP front, the representitives of the sectarian and bigoted state the British tried to shore up.

If you read the timeline or lived through it you will see that being decent wasn't going to change anything, in fact it brought worse to the doors of Nationalists and Catholics.
The SDLP were too ready to acquiesce and settle for less, and did and paid the price for being a part of the problem.

RandomViewer

RandomName2 wrote: »

Not everyone behaved like an animal in the north.

The SDLP and UUP were by and large decent political parties, not tied to death squads.

Everyone has a choice, and some of us remember.

Apologizing and distancing yourself from sin doesn't absolve you of its guilt, but it would be a start, a start which honestly I have not really begun to witness from a certain nationalist party that straddles the border.

UUP were no better than the DUP, bit more educated, put on accent but a dirty bigot at the end of the day

RandomName2

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well QED.

Simplify when you are caught out for an answer

None of us with Irish ancestry are above what happened in the north.
Nobody anywhere in fact, is above it, when pushed or ignored or threatened enough.

Another fact of history the high moral grounders ignore

Not everyone behaved like an animal in the north.

The SDLP and UUP were by and large decent political parties, not tied to death squads.

Everyone has a choice, and some of us remember.

Apologizing and distancing yourself from sin doesn't absolve you of its guilt, but it would be a start, a start which honestly I have not really begun to witness from a certain nationalist party that straddles the border.

RandomViewer

Truthvader wrote: »

Had to Google that. I assume you are referring to "Seamus McElwaine".Maybe get O'Broin to check the spelling in future.

What I discovered is that McElwaine murdered 10 people in his miserable useless life before being caught preparing a bomb to murder more (I assume this is the craven reference to "active service") He was wounded, questioned and murdered by the SAS. Yep a war crime no doubt- though hard to feel much sympathy. The soldiers should have been prosecuted. Not really the same as murdering kids out buying mothers day cards is it?

This guy would be your sort of hero Truthy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Jackson
Blueshirts probably have their own little memorial for him

FrancieBrady

Truthvader wrote: »

The subtext of course being that it is OK to murder informers or politicians. Any wonder Francie wont go near the Guards

And to be clear the murder of British Soldiers is equally murder in my view.

Like other posters caught out and no longer able to bull**** their way out of the cul de sacs they end up in, you have now constructed a lie about me and will continue to use it.

You lie Truth, think hard about the honesty of your position here.

FrancieBrady

Truthvader wrote: »

People deciding to kill each other

Well QED.

Simplify when you are caught out for an answer

None of us with Irish ancestry are above what happened in the north.
Nobody anywhere in fact, is above it, when pushed or ignored or threatened enough.

Another fact of history the high moral grounders ignore

Truthvader

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Murder is murder imo,but its clear your willing to turn blind eye and downplay some cases??

And what about soldiers raping ira members,who have been arrested??
Eamonn collins,who also went onto be killed,being among most well known.......how is this keeping the peace?

Its clear you need a lot more help from OBroin and the intellectuals if you managed to extract the message that I am willing to turn a blind eye to anything. Unaware of the Collins rape claim. Have his book here but dont recall that. Anyway rapists should be prosecuted. Pity we cant ask Eamonn for details but he was murdered by Uncle Gerry and the lads.

jm08

Truthvader wrote: »

Had to Google that. I assume you are referring to "Seamus McElwaine".Maybe get O'Broin to check the spelling in future.

What I discovered is that McElwaine murdered 10 people in his miserable useless life before being caught preparing a bomb to murder more (I assume this is the craven reference to "active service") He was wounded, questioned and murdered by the SAS. Yep a war crime no doubt- though hard to feel much sympathy. The soldiers should have been prosecuted. Not really the same as murdering kids out buying mothers day cards is it?

In January 1993 an inquest jury returned a verdict that McElwaine had been unlawfully killed. The jury ruled the soldiers had opened fire without giving him a chance to surrender, and that he was shot dead five minutes after being wounded. The Director of Public Prosecutions requested a full report on the inquest from the RUC, but no one has been prosecuted for McElwaine's death.

He was serving 30 years for the killing of two British Security people when he escaped, not 10 as you are trying to claim here. It seems you think the British Army / SAS can be judge, jury and executioner.

Spanish Eyes

SF did try to engage the so called middle classes.

They saw through it though, OK, we will pay for everything along with the baggage and the cost to many. But you go ahead and choose high calibre candidates. LOL.

Sorry now.

And before anyone gets the chance, FF not a week in office were up to their old tricks again. Quelle Surprise. But they don't represent me either. They are hankering after a tent in Galway and always will, read into that what you like.

Truthvader

Deleted User wrote: »

And what of likes of seamus mcillwee....arrested on active service with the ira,interrogated and executed on side of the road??

Had to Google that. I assume you are referring to "Seamus McElwaine".Maybe get O'Broin to check the spelling in future.

What I discovered is that McElwaine murdered 10 people in his miserable useless life before being caught preparing a bomb to murder more (I assume this is the craven reference to "active service") He was wounded, questioned and murdered by the SAS. Yep a war crime no doubt- though hard to feel much sympathy. The soldiers should have been prosecuted. Not really the same as murdering kids out buying mothers day cards is it?

Truthvader

Adam9213 wrote: »

Not really as only 29% of IRA victims were civilians and that figure also includes informers, politicians etc.

You seem to ignore logic in all your posts and just throw out idiotic insults, also the IRA in the 80s and 90s apparently had to abort 80% of their operations because of the risk to civilians.

The subtext of course being that it is OK to murder informers or politicians. Any wonder Francie wont go near the Guards

And to be clear the murder of British Soldiers is equally murder in my view.

[Deleted User]

jm08 wrote: »

The SDLP were not bombing anyone. Why did unionists refuse to go into Government with them? Are you trying to insinuate that the SDLP were behind Kingsmills now?

The sdlp.were just as likely to be targets of unionist paramilitaries too.....anyone remember words of the pan-nationlist front pedeled by ian paisley

[Deleted User]

blanch152 wrote: »

Pretty much this was the reason for the conflict. Without the IRA killing people, we would have had peace a long time ago.

Easy to have a peace process when all.the nationlists killed/driven out....only for ira standing up and defending their communities there would be no nationlists there today

Why were the british throwing fireworks and attacking homes in short strand at the weekend btw,they still wont accept nationlists about??

An incompetent accident? Is that all you can bring yourself to say about Omagh?

The brits drove people deliverately towards that bomb imo....why have they still not released the call giving bomb warning??

jm08

blanch152 wrote: »

The British Government didn't back down. Sunningdale allowed for power-sharing, if the parties in Northern Ireland wouldn't power-share, there was nothing the British Government could do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland_Constitutional_Convention

"On the face of it, the NICC was a total failure as it did not achieve its aims of agreement between the two sides or of introducing 'rolling devolution' (gradual introduction of devolution as and when the parties involved saw fit to accept it). Nevertheless, coming as it did not long after the Conservative-sponsored Sunningdale Agreement, the NICC indicated that no British government would be prepared to re-introduce majority rule in Northern Ireland."

Peace was getting closer.....the public mood however, was changed by incidents such as Kingsmill.

The SDLP were not bombing anyone. Why did unionists refuse to go into Government with them? Are you trying to insinuate that the SDLP were behind Kingsmills now?

Adam9213

SouthWesterly wrote: »

How was planting 2 bombs are either end of a town with a delay on one an accident?

I look forward to seeing your answer!!

The PIRA were exploding hundreds of bombs on economic targets every year, in 1972 they exploded 1300 bombs on economic targets almost every single one of these bombings no one was killed from they would phone in a warning that the bomb will explode in 30 minutes enough time to clear the area but not enough time to disarm the bomb.

The RIRA tried to do this and obviously messed up, even a dog in northern Ireland would have nothing but negative effects for them.

Adam9213

Truthvader wrote: »

Ah the old rogue unit, the unauthorised action, the unsanctioned killing. Sure its hard to know what the lads were up to all the time. You can only fill them with explosives and hatred and hope for the best. And sure we can always just deny it. Sure one of the leaders wasn't even in the IRA. A confusing time God help us.

The IRA was one of the most sophisticated well organized guerrilla armies in the world at the time the leadership had tight control over the organisation but of course you can't control everyone 100% of the time that's inevitable

[Deleted User]

Adam9213 wrote: »

Well they all had some kind of support but the Provos were the only ones who had real support.

Also no one supported the Omagh bomb, no one in the real IRA supported it and no one in the general public supported it, it was an incompetent accident.

The dissident republican campaign at that stage had some low level support but after the Omagh bomb it only had support similar to the support of the New IRA today.

The Omagh bomb effectively ended the dissident republican campaign.

How was planting 2 bombs are either end of a town with a delay on one an accident?

I look forward to seeing your answer!!

blanch152

jm08 wrote: »

Most of it could have been avoided if unionists had agreed to power sharing with the SDLP in 1973. (Sunningdale). They violently resisted it and the British Government backed down which they always did to unionist threats.

The British Government didn't back down. Sunningdale allowed for power-sharing, if the parties in Northern Ireland wouldn't power-share, there was nothing the British Government could do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland_Constitutional_Convention

"On the face of it, the NICC was a total failure as it did not achieve its aims of agreement between the two sides or of introducing 'rolling devolution' (gradual introduction of devolution as and when the parties involved saw fit to accept it). Nevertheless, coming as it did not long after the Conservative-sponsored Sunningdale Agreement, the NICC indicated that no British government would be prepared to re-introduce majority rule in Northern Ireland."

Peace was getting closer.....the public mood however, was changed by incidents such as Kingsmill.

Adam9213

Truthvader wrote: »

I care as to many normal people. As you to accurately put it "the goal was to force a British withdrawal". The means was to murder and mutilate random innocent people until you got what you wanted. Only a sick sociopathic individual behaves like this

Not a defence of anything then

Not really as only 29% of IRA victims were civilians and that figure also includes informers, politicians etc.

You seem to ignore logic in all your posts and just throw out idiotic insults, also the IRA in the 80s and 90s apparently had to abort 80% of their operations because of the risk to civilians.

[Deleted User]

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Out come the selective, emotive victims again.
You know as well as anybody that the intention was not to kill two boys.

Two boys died tragically though that didn't have to, like all the other victims, including 18 children killed by BA forces as the conflict ramped up.

Why didn't those 2 kids have to be killed?
My answer would be that terrorists planted bombs in a shopping area where people where out shopping.

Have you a different answer to that Francie?

Truthvader

jm08 wrote: »

Most of it could have been avoided if unionists had agreed to power sharing with the SDLP in 1973. (Sunningdale). They violently resisted it and the British Government backed down which they always did to unionist threats.

This is undoubtedly true but it was not addressed or resolved or justified by bombing a pub in Birmingham full pf people on a night out