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James McClean

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    #62
    dundalkfc10
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭dundalkfc10


    Aegir wrote: »
    I doubt you decided to switch from playing for Northern Ireland to the Republic and then took to twitter to mock your former team either.

    Have you ever heard why he played with Northern Ireland and then switched.

    Read up and come back to us


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    #63
    Hamsterchops
    Registered Users Posts: 3,135 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    Deleted User wrote: »
    No...but it deos celebrate soldiers who carried out bloody sunday,so comparison is valid imo

    Nobody celebrates anything on poppy day.


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    #64
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Hamsterchops wrote: »
    Nobody celebrates anything on poppy day.
    Remembrance Sunday is held in the United Kingdom as a day "to commemorate the contribution of British and Commonwealth military and civilian servicemen and women in the two World Wars and later conflicts"

    Ok mate.....whatever you need to tell yourself


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    #65
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    iebamm2580 wrote: »
    what choice does McClean have given he is being abused for being catholic and irish. He was born that way just like mcgoldrick was born black. If you actually watch soccer you can hear large sections of stadiums booing him, that does not happen many others.


    Sorry but that is bollocks. He is not abused because he is Irish and Catholic.

    If that was the case then why are the other Catholic Irish players not abused? Answer: Because it does not happen.

    McLean gets singled out because he has taken a stand on a very particular issue. Not saying it is right but ultimately it was his choice. Nobody forces him to write crap on Twitter.

    I have lived in England for the past 10 years. I have been to countless football and rugby games in countless stadia all over the country. I have been to Wembley, Millennium Stadium to Twickenham and everything in between- Premier league to League 2.

    I would say that every game I have attended has had an Irish player involved and I have never heard abuse against Irish players. The abuse I hear and of which there is plenty it directed toward English internationals (over the years Ashley Cole, Ashely Young, John Terry, Frank Lampard, Wayne Rooney, Gerrard).

    I recall a gob****e hurling abuse at Wayne Rooney a few years back calling him ‘Pikey’ this and that. Guess what? This gob****e in his mid-50s had travelled over from Roscommon. Just my bad luck I was stuck next to him. He was the only one shouting any form of abuse.


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    #66
    iebamm2580
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭iebamm2580


    partyguinness wrote: »
    Sorry but that is bollocks. He is not abused because he is Irish and Catholic.

    If that was the case then why are the other Catholic Irish players not abused? Answer: Because it does not happen.

    McLean gets singled out because he has taken a stand on a very particular issue. Not saying it is right but ultimately it was his choice. Nobody forces him to write crap on Twitter.

    I have lived in England for the past 10 years. I have been to countless football and rugby games in countless stadia all over the county. I have been to Wembley, Millennium Stadium to Twickenham and everything in between- Premier league to League 2.

    I would say that every game I have attended has had an Irish player involved and I have never heard abuse against Irish players. The abuse I hear and of which there is plenty it directed toward English internationals (over the years Ashley Cole, Ashely Young, John Terry, Frank Lampard, Wayne Rooney, Gerrard).

    I recall a gob****e hurling abuse at Wayne Rooney a few years back calling him ‘Pikey’ this and that. Guess what? This gob****e in his mid-50s had travelled over from Roscommon. Just my bad luck I was stuck next to him. He was the only one shouting any form of abuse.
    Why was Colin kapernick abused more than any other black nfl players because he stuck his head up just as McCLean has done. Obviously black people face much more discrimination but its just hypocrisy from the media to barely mention it and he does have a point that he receives little to no support on the issue. Regardless of what you think he gets more abuse than any other player in England.


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    #67
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    Hamsterchops wrote: »
    Re the Easter lily, not sure that one's religion comes into it, as most people in Ireland don't wear it anyway, and most Irish folk claim to be Roman Catholics, many Catholics in England too!

    Regarding any comparison between the Swastika and the poppy, or the KKK and the poppy, well I think you're just being provocative or just a bit silly?

    What we’re seeing this year at the bonfires is very similar to KKK type symbolism. I’ve seen lots of effigies being hung and burnt and KAT on bonfires. This is actually more overt than you’d get in the Deep South. I cannot believe more isn’t being made of this.


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    #68
    UDAWINNER
    Registered Users Posts: 860 ✭✭✭UDAWINNER


    partyguinness wrote: »
    McLean gets personal abuse.

    Is it based on race colour or creed?
    Does it cross the line into discrimination?

    Show me where he suffers discrimination.

    He is English speaking white, straight and male. All things considered he is privileged.

    Black players get abuse because of the color of their skin- not their fault.

    McLean can choose to keep his mouth shut and his views to himself. He chooses not to- he gets a volley of abuse for it.

    McGolderick etc do not have that same luxury or choice.

    he gets booed every time because he doesn't wear the poppy. i agree with his stance.


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    #69
    the sword
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭the sword


    Would any of the posters wear a poppy if they played football in England?


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    #70
    Hamsterchops
    Registered Users Posts: 3,135 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Ok mate.....whatever you need to tell yourself

    Commemoration, not celebration.

    There is a big difference.

    ...and yes, if course I'd wear a poppy, I always do anyway.


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    #71
    Mongfinder General
    Registered Users Posts: 1,992 ✭✭✭Mongfinder General


    The abuse that black players get is because, for the most part, they are black. They did not chose to be black. They cannot escape the abuse. If some idiot decides to racially abuse them then there isn't much that they can do about it.

    McClean chose to object to wearing a poppy and made his political allegiance very clear. This is a choice. His choice. Thousands agree with him. Hundreds of thousands disagree with him and millions couldn't give a fcuk what he thinks. If I go on social media today and declare a liking for or an allegiance to a divisive and polarising body politic, then I had best be prepared for people telling me exactly what they think of me.


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    #72
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    iebamm2580 wrote: »
    Why was Colin kapernick abused more than any other black nfl players because he stuck his head up just as McCLean has done. Obviously black people face much more discrimination but its just hypocrisy from the media to barely mention it and he does have a point that he receives little to no support on the issue. Regardless of what you think he gets more abuse than any other player in England.


    I never said he does not get abuse. I have acknowledged it in every post and likewise I have set out the reasons why.

    To suggest that he gets abuse is because he is Irish and Catholic is just not true.

    He drew it on himself with his Poppy stance and yeah sure 'fans' will spew out all sorts of bile to put him off his game and yeah sure they will no doubt bring up his nationality and religion as a stick to beat him with but that is not what started it.

    There is a very simple solution: Shut the fcuk up and keep your political grievances to yourself.

    As I mention I live in England and I am as green as anyone but I don't go around mouthing off crap. I have had to stand silent during Remembrance Day silence at work- I would rather not but making a big old song and dance about it just makes me look like an idiot.

    If I am that offended then I have the choice to eff off back to Ireland.


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    #73
    iebamm2580
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭iebamm2580


    partyguinness wrote: »
    I never said he does not get abuse. I have acknowledged it in every post and likewise I have set out the reasons why.

    To suggest that he gets abuse is because he is Irish and Catholic is just not true.

    He drew it on himself with his Poppy stance and yeah sure 'fans' will spew out all sorts of bile to put him off his game and yeah sure they will no doubt bring up his nationality and religion as a stick to beat him with but that is not what started it.

    There is a very simple solution: Shut the fcuk up and keep your political grievances to yourself.

    As I mention I live in England and I am as green as anyone but I don't go around mouthing off crap. I have had to stand silent during Remembrance Day silence at work- I would rather not but making a big old song and dance about it just makes me look like an idiot.

    If I am that offended then I have the choice to eff off back to Ireland.

    Ok so are you saying he should wear a poppy?


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    #74
    irishgrover
    Registered Users Posts: 2,496 ✭✭✭irishgrover


    as others have said, I think the discrimination is different.

    Mclean is generally discriminated against because of his actions
    Black players are generally discriminated against because of their existence.


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    #75
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    UDAWINNER wrote: »
    he gets booed every time because he doesn't wear the poppy. i agree with his stance.


    I also agree with his stance but getting singled for not wearing a Poppy is not discrimination in any language.


    Hold you views and get on with it. As they say: "If you are explaining you are losing." His biggest problem is that he doesn't know when to shut up.


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    #76
    Nermal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,622 ✭✭✭Nermal


    Mongfinder General wrote: »
    The abuse that black players get is because, for the most part, they are black. They did not chose to be black. They cannot escape the abuse. If some idiot decides to racially abuse them then there isn't much that they can do about it.

    Tripe.

    By this rationale, the abuse gay people get is because they choose to be gay. Can't they just act straight?

    The abuse travellers get is because they act like travellers. Can't they just change their accent and act like settled people?

    Abuse is not worse merely because it attacks a characteristic the recipient can't hide.

    Nor is it warranted merely because it targets a choice they made.


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    #77
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,614 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Mongfinder General wrote: »
    The abuse that black players get is because, for the most part, they are black. They did not chose to be black. They cannot escape the abuse. If some idiot decides to racially abuse them then there isn't much that they can do about it.

    McClean chose to object to wearing a poppy and made his political allegiance very clear. This is a choice. His choice. Thousands agree with him. Hundreds of thousands disagree with him and millions couldn't give a fcuk what he thinks. If I go on social media today and declare a liking for or an allegiance to a divisive and polarising body politic, then I had best be prepared for people telling me exactly what they think of me.

    Croppies don't wear poppies, he really doesn't have a choice.

    First they came for the socialists...



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    #78
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    irishgrover wrote: »
    as others have said, I think the discrimination is different.

    Mclean is generally discriminated against because of his actions
    Black players are generally discriminated against because of their existence.


    He is singled out for particular abuse/booing due to his Poppy stance. That is not discrimination.

    Is he refused entry into shops?
    Is he regularly stopped by the police and frisked?
    Is he struggling to get a job due to racial profiling?
    Do people cross the road when they see him coming?
    Is he stopped by bouncers outside trendy nightclubs and bars and told "Not tonight"?

    The above are examples of discrimination. I have not heard McLean complaining about such obstacles in his life.


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    #79
    KaneToad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,219 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    Francie Barrett wrote: »
    This is why politics should be taken out of sport entirely. The poppy is supposed to be a personal decision, but they way it's been structured by authorities, you basically have to wear one or else you're vilified for not doing so. The same thing has happened with BLM. There must be huge pressure on players to participate on these political stunts, a failure to do so would probably cost them their livelihood because the backlash from the keyboard warriors would be immense.

    George Carlin is dead right, this is the road to fascism. Certain opinions are getting censored, others are promoted. People are conforming out of fear.

    Every football match now seems to have a moment of silence or a moment of applause or a black armband or an emblem on a shirt. It happens so frequently that it is meaningless. Just let them play the jaysis match, that's what 99% of the spectators/viewers are interested in.


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    #80
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    Mongfinder General wrote: »
    The abuse that black players get is because, for the most part, they are black. They did not chose to be black. They cannot escape the abuse. If some idiot decides to racially abuse them then there isn't much that they can do about it.

    McClean chose to object to wearing a poppy and made his political allegiance very clear. This is a choice. His choice. Thousands agree with him. Hundreds of thousands disagree with him and millions couldn't give a fcuk what he thinks. If I go on social media today and declare a liking for or an allegiance to a divisive and polarising body politic, then I had best be prepared for people telling me exactly what they think of me.

    If anything your logic makes it worse. Basically a black person cannot pretend to be anything but black. But a Catholic can blend in if they so choose. You're saying it's his fault he doesn't conform his beliefs to their's?


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    #81
    Icaras
    Registered Users Posts: 926 ✭✭✭Icaras


    partyguinness wrote: »

    Is he refused entry into shops?
    Is he regularly stopped by the police and frisked?
    Is he struggling to get a job due to racial profiling?
    Do people cross the road when they see him coming?
    Is he stopped by bouncers outside trendy nightclubs and bars and told "Not tonight"?

    The above are examples of discrimination. I have not heard McLean complaining about such obstacles in his life.

    Does the above examples regularly happen to black Premier League footballers?


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    #82
    Nermal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,622 ✭✭✭Nermal


    partyguinness wrote: »
    He is singled out for particular abuse/booing due to his Poppy stance. That is not discrimination.

    Look, you're just embarrassing yourself.

    Saying that he could keep his views to himself is just misdirection, and rather scummy misdirection at that.

    You have described him as 'English speaking white, straight and male... privileged'. You clearly don't believe it is actually possible for a person like that to suffer discrimination.

    Watching you grope your way to a definition of the word consistent with that belief is not edifying.


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    #83
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    iebamm2580 wrote: »
    Ok so are you saying he should wear a poppy?

    No. Where did I suggest that?

    Don't wear a Poppy and leave it at that. Never explain and never apologise.

    McLean's going on about at the start only brought attention to himself. That was his mistake. He has just thrown a load of red meat at the mob.

    I work in a small office and I am the only one that does not wear a Poppy. Nobody takes any notice and it has never come up in conversation. My readymade reponse is: "Nothing to do with me. I didn't have any relations in the British Army."

    You see a lot of people over here had family and relations in the Britsh Army during WWI and WWII. My own wife had a great uncle blown up at the Somme, her grandfather spent time in Athens and Egypt during WWII.

    Irish people need to realise that the world does not revolve around Ireland.


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    #84
    ThewhiteJesus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,714 ✭✭✭ThewhiteJesus


    partyguinness wrote: »
    No. Where did I suggest that?

    Don't wear a Poppy and leave it at that. Never explain and never apologise.

    McLean's going on about at the start only brought attention to himself. That was his mistake. He has just thrown a load of red meat at the mob.

    I work in a small office and I am the only one that does not wear a Poppy. Nobody takes any notice and it has never come up in conversation. My readymade reponse is: "Nothing to do with me. I didn't have any relations in the British Army."

    You see a lot of people over here had family and relations in the Britsh Army during WWI and WWII. My own wife had a great uncle blown up at the Somme, her grandfather spent time in Athens and Egypt during WWII.

    Irish people need to realise that the world does not revolve around Ireland.

    ah John Bruton, it's yourself.


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    #85
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    partyguinness wrote: »
    No. Where did I suggest that?

    Don't wear a Poppy and leave it at that. Never explain and never apologise.

    McLean's going on about at the start only brought attention to himself. That was his mistake. He has just thrown a load of red meat at the mob.

    I work in a small office and I am the only one that does not wear a Poppy. Nobody takes any notice and it has never come up in conversation. My readymade reponse is: "Nothing to do with me. I didn't have any relations in the British Army."

    You see a lot of people over here had family and relations in the Britsh Army during WWI and WWII. My own wife had a great uncle blown up at the Somme, her grandfather spent time in Athens and Egypt during WWII.

    Irish people need to realise that the world does not revolve around Ireland.

    You need to realize your warped view of the world has no bearing on the experiences of people suffering discrimination and threats because of their beliefs.


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    #86
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    Nermal wrote: »
    Look, you're just embarrassing yourself.

    Saying that he could keep his views to himself is just misdirection, and rather scummy misdirection at that.

    You have described him as 'English speaking white, straight and male... privileged'. You clearly don't believe it is actually possible for a person like that to suffer discrimination.

    Watching you grope your way to a definition of the word consistent with that belief is not edifying.


    He could choose not to wear the Poppy and keep his views to himself. Exactly. How in God's name is that 'misdirection'?

    When he spews nonsense on Twitter and responds to the abuse and bile from other users he just making it worse for himself either because he is incredibly stupid or naive. I am going with the former.

    I have witnessed discrimination with my own two eyes and heard every sort of racial slur from the mouths of white, straight and male bigots. For example, I have seen groups of Asians point blank refused entry in pubs and clubs and it because the colour of their skin did not fit the 'profile'.

    Equating the abuse McLean gets from football stands (of all places) to discrimination on a par with the racial abuse suffered by black players and discrimination by the wider black community is just beyond ludicrous. Let's be clear- he should not have to suffer any form of abuse.

    Sitting over here in the UK I find some of these posts truely embarrassing. It makes you look very small and one dimensional.

    It could only emanate from posters living on a small white monocultural island without a clue.


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    #87
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    smurgen wrote: »
    If anything your logic makes it worse. Basically a black person cannot pretend to be anything but black. But a Catholic can blend in if they so choose. You're saying it's his fault he doesn't conform his beliefs to their's?

    it's got **** all to do with being Catholic. Outside of a few bigots in the northern part of this island, no one cares what religion he belongs to.


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    #88
    iebamm2580
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭iebamm2580


    McClean has been getting abuse for years long before some of his twitter mistakes, he was asked why he refused to wear a poppy and he explained and has been getting abuse ever since, he did not originally bring all this upon himself as some have suggested.


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    #89
    irishgrover
    Registered Users Posts: 2,496 ✭✭✭irishgrover


    partyguinness wrote: »
    He is singled out for particular abuse/booing due to his Poppy stance. That is not discrimination.

    Is he refused entry into shops?
    Is he regularly stopped by the police and frisked?
    Is he struggling to get a job due to racial profiling?
    Do people cross the road when they see him coming?
    Is he stopped by bouncers outside trendy nightclubs and bars and told "Not tonight"?

    The above are examples of discrimination. I have not heard McLean complaining about such obstacles in his life.


    I'm not sure what your point is and I've not read all your posts so I don't know what your agenda is (if any)

    Personally I don't give a fcuk what you consider "discrimination" versus "sectarian abuse" versus "vocal displeasure at political stance" or whatever else.
    (*Edit: I don't mean that in an abusive way, more a matter of fact way, ie how you interpret things is up to you /Edit)

    My point was that one was as a result of actions and the other was as a result of existence.


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    #90
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    smurgen wrote: »
    You need to realize your warped view of the world has no bearing on the experiences of people suffering discrimination and threats because of their beliefs.


    I will ask again. Where has McLean suffered 'discrimination'? Abuse from the stands- yes. Discrimination? Get your head out of your ass.

    So poor old James he is being persecuted and discriminated for his 'beliefs'? Right so. I wonder what the Rohingyas in Myanmar and the Uighars in China think of that notion.

    Shall we petition the UN on behalf of poor old downtrodden James...:rolleyes:


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    #91
    Nermal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,622 ✭✭✭Nermal


    partyguinness wrote: »
    It makes you look very small and one dimensional. It could only emanate from posters living on a small white monocultural island without a clue.

    Is this supposed to be insulting?

    Do you think we should be embarrassed or apologetic for being small, white and monocultural?


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