James McClean

iebamm2580

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/james-mcclean-questions-irish-teammates-attitude-to-discrimination-1011015.html

Think mclean makes a fair point in the article., seems to be only discrimination if you are a from certain backgrounds.

CtevenSrowder

He isn't wrong.

Brock Turnpike

iebamm2580 wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/james-mcclean-questions-irish-teammates-attitude-to-discrimination-1011015.html

Think mclean makes a fair point in the article., seems to be only discrimination if you are a from certain backgrounds.

I'm not surprised James can't work out why he's not getting support.

Atlantic Dawn

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

I'm not surprised James can't work out why he's not getting support.

It's because he's a white.

And the abuse has only become more pronounced with the rise of jingoistic poppy-shaming rhetoric. The act of publicly ridiculing a professional footballer for not sporting a flower on his lapel is ridiculous. Britain no longer has an empire despite what the tabloids print, the days of colonial subjugation are over.

One eyed Jack

iebamm2580 wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/james-mcclean-questions-irish-teammates-attitude-to-discrimination-1011015.html

Think mclean makes a fair point in the article., seems to be only discrimination if you are a from certain backgrounds.

That wasn’t his point?

His point was that some people care more about discrimination against some people than others.

I’m just not sure what he expects should happen as a result of him stating the bloody obvious.

Allinall

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

It's because he's a white.

No. it's because he's a bit of an arsehole.

Hamsterchops

McClean leaves himself open to attack, he's deliberately said and done things that paint a big red target on himself...

The poppy thing is the obvious red flag, where out of all his team mates, the opposing team, and the fans he decides not to wear a poppy in England on poppy day!

OK, so I think the whole poppy day (compulsory wearing of) has gone far too far, specially on TV, but by not obeying the same custom as everybody else on the teams & the stadium crowd, he does stand out as not being part of the commemoration, hence it irks people.
His attitude is the problem.

For the love of God will someone edit his name and spell it correctly.

The most misspelled Irish footballer of all time (constantly happens on the football forum).

Fr Tod Umptious

Hamsterchops wrote: »

McClean leaves himself open to attack, he's deliberately said and done things that paint a big red target on himself...

The poppy thing is the obvious red flag, where out of all his team mates, the opposing team, and the fans he decides not to wear a poppy in England on poppy day!

OK, so I think the whole poppy day (compulsory wearing of) has gone far too far, specially on TV, but by not obeying the same custom as everybody else on the teams & the stadium crowd, he does stand out as not being part of the commemoration, hence it irks people.
His attitude is the problem.

Even though I think he is a class A clown I think he is dead right not to wear the poppy if he does not want to.

However he does not do himself any favours with things like his history lesson tweet from a few months back.

osarusan

Hamsterchops wrote: »

but by not obeying the same custom as everybody else on the teams & the stadium crowd, he does stand out as not being part of the commemoration, hence it irks people.
His attitude is the problem.

100% disagree.

McClean comes from Creggan in Derry, where people were killed on Bloody Sunday. He has repeatedly said that if the Poppy Appeal funds were limited to veterans of WW1 and WW2, he'd have no issue with it. But as it stands, the funds go to all veterans, including potentially those who took part in Bloody Sunday.

It's a perfectly reasonable stance in my opinion. The way he goes about it doesn't help, but that's because he's as thick as a plank.


In general, obviously the Premier League have aligned themselves with the Black Lives Matter movement. There's nothing wrong with that in my opinion, but McClean, and plenty of others from places around the world in which wars, brutality and atrocity go unremarked, are within their rights to wonder 'What about us?'

ForestFire

Hamsterchops wrote: »

McClean leaves himself open to attack, he's deliberately said and done things that paint a big red target on himself...

The poppy thing is the obvious red flag, where out of all his team mates, the opposing team, and the fans he decides not to wear a poppy in England on poppy day!

OK, so I think the whole poppy day (compulsory wearing of) has gone far too far, specially on TV, but by not obeying the same custom as everybody else on the teams & the stadium crowd, he does stand out as not being part of the commemoration, hence it irks people.
His attitude is the problem.

Do you know what the poppy symbol would represent to catholics /nationists in Derry City?

Do you think it would be okay to ask Colin Kaepernick and other African americas sports stars to wear a symbol of the confereradtion army, to honor lost lives in battle?

suicide_circus

Taig lives matter

RandomViewer

Hamsterchops wrote: »

McClean leaves himself open to attack, he's deliberately said and done things that paint a big red target on himself...

The poppy thing is the obvious red flag, where out of all his team mates, the opposing team, and the fans he decides not to wear a poppy in England on poppy day!

OK, so I think the whole poppy day (compulsory wearing of) has gone far too far, specially on TV, but by not obeying the same custom as everybody else on the teams & the stadium crowd, he does stand out as not being part of the commemoration, hence it irks people.
His attitude is the problem.

Maybe we should force Protestants to wear an Easter lily , or Jews to wear a Swastika or Black people to commemorate the KKK ?

Cazale

Hamsterchops wrote:

OK, so I think the whole poppy day (compulsory wearing of) has gone far too far, specially on TV, but by not obeying the same custom as everybody else on the teams & the stadium crowd, he does stand out as not being part of the commemoration, hence it irks people. His attitude is the problem.

Some of those black athletes should wind their neck in too and not be so uppity. It's their fault and not the racists!

Quantum Erasure

Deleted User wrote: »

Because he's irish

The Irish are the blacks of Europe

Dice75

gilberto_eire wrote: »

For the love of God will someone edit his name and spell it correctly.

The most misspelled Irish footballer of all time (constantly happens on the football forum).

Jeff Hendricks says hi

Junkyard Tom

ForestFire wrote: »

Do you know what the poppy symbol would represent to catholics /nationists in Derry City?

Do you think it would be okay to ask Colin Kaepernick and other African americas sports stars to wear a symbol of the confereradtion army, to honor lost lives in battle?

https://twitter.com/odranwaldo/status/1282807762339209216?s=20

Brock Turnpike

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Where's the extract from? Ewan McKenna?

StackSteevens

osarusan wrote: »

Lives Matter movement. There's nothing wrong with that in my opinion, but McClean, and plenty of others from places around the world in which wars, brutality and atrocity go unremarked, are within their rights to wonder 'What about us?'

Tell me more about this Bloody Sunday thing, because until I read about it in your post, I had never heard of it. Presumably it occurred somewhere in darkest Africa.

partyguinness

McLean gets personal abuse.

Is it based on race colour or creed?
Does it cross the line into discrimination?

Show me where he suffers discrimination.

He is English speaking white, straight and male. All things considered he is privileged.

Black players get abuse because of the color of their skin- not their fault.

McLean can choose to keep his mouth shut and his views to himself. He chooses not to- he gets a volley of abuse for it.

McGolderick etc do not have that same luxury or choice.

Huntergonzo

I've always thought McClean has maybe too much to say but he makes a fair point here.

Problem is it's all media/agenda driven. For example, Sky have rowed in hard behind BLM even though some (possibly many) have serious reservations about their true intentions and motives. But it's the 'politically correct' thing to do and that's all that matters apparently.

However to the best of my knowledge James McClean has never received a minute's support from them, for his very understandable decision to refuse the poppy. In fact the British media tendz to report the issue with apparent apathy as though they're not taking a side but their tone gives them away, they really don't like the fact that McClean refuses the poppy.

Anyway it's all politicial correct bullshít, George Carlin put it best:

"Politicial correctness is fascism pretending to be manners" and "political correctness is America's (or anywhere for that matter) newest form of intolerance, and it's especially pernicious because it comes disguised as tolerance".

partyguinness

partyguinness wrote: »

McLean gets personal abuse.

Is it based on race colour or creed?
Does it cross the line into discrimination?

Show me where he suffers discrimination.

He is English speaking white, straight and male. All things considered he is privileged.

Black players get abuse because of the color of their skin- not their fault.

McLean can choose to keep his mouth shut and his views to himself. He chooses not to- he gets a volley of abuse for it.

McGolderick etc do not have that same luxury or choice.

Yes, it is because of his creed. That literally invalidates the rest of your post, which is complete bollocks, by the way.

banie01

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yes, it is because of his creed. That literally invalidates the rest of your post, which is complete bollocks, by the way.

Had a very similar reply ready to go, you beat me to it.

Feisar

Hamsterchops wrote: »

McClean leaves himself open to attack, he's deliberately said and done things that paint a big red target on himself...

The poppy thing is the obvious red flag, where out of all his team mates, the opposing team, and the fans he decides not to wear a poppy in England on poppy day!

OK, so I think the whole poppy day (compulsory wearing of) has gone far too far, specially on TV, but by not obeying the same custom as everybody else on the teams & the stadium crowd, he does stand out as not being part of the commemoration, hence it irks people.
His attitude is the problem.

I work in the UK a lot and no one has ever said anything about me not wearing a poppy., it's really media driven.

partyguinness

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, it is because of his creed. That literally invalidates the rest of your post, which is complete bollocks, by the way.

Ok what discriminaiton does he suffer?

Saying it is "bollocks" really is not the smartest rebuttal.

If McLean thinks the abuse he suffers is on par with the abuse thrown at black players or the daily discrimination suffered by black people in general society then he really is living in cloud cuckoo land.

As I said he has a choice. He decides to mouth off every November about the Poppy (now I agree the Poppy BS is a load of BS). Fine that is his choice.

McGolderick and black players have no choice when they are abused about the colour of the skin they were born with.

McLean is not sticking up for injustices in the world. He is making a choice based on his political views. Fine. McLean is not sticking up for some society wide problem. It is his own narrow political allegiances that he is heckled about.

I have sat in Premier League grounds and for example I listened to all sorts of chants against Frank Lampard for being "fat". Now should we expect Frank Lampard to start crying about the fattest abuse he suffered. No of course not.

McLean might as well shout out: "The lives of Derry Republicans matter too."

Abuse about your political views and abuse about the colour of your skin are nowhere near the same. Not even on the same planet.

Have your views on the Poppy (which I agree with BTW) but you are living and working in England. What does he expect to achieve? All of a sudden the barely literate mobs in the stand will sit and contemplate his position and agree with him? Fantasy stuff.

I cannot understand why McLean even bothers explaining himself- that is his mistake. He is dealing with football fans....generally not the smartest bunch around.

Feisar

Feisar wrote: »

I work in the UK a lot and no one has ever said anything about me not wearing a poppy., it's really media driven.

I doubt you decided to switch from playing for Northern Ireland to the Republic and then took to twitter to mock your former team either.

Francie Barrett

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Anyway it's all politicial correct bullshít, George Carlin put it best:

"Politicial correctness is fascism pretending to be manners" and "political correctness is America's (or anywhere for that matter) newest form of intolerance, and it's especially pernicious because it comes disguised as tolerance".

This is why politics should be taken out of sport entirely. The poppy is supposed to be a personal decision, but they way it's been structured by authorities, you basically have to wear one or else you're vilified for not doing so. The same thing has happened with BLM. There must be huge pressure on players to participate on these political stunts, a failure to do so would probably cost them their livelihood because the backlash from the keyboard warriors would be immense.

George Carlin is dead right, this is the road to fascism. Certain opinions are getting censored, others are promoted. People are conforming out of fear.

McGinniesta

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

It's because he's a white.

Nah. It's cuz he is black yo.

For real yo.

Pkiernan

When you continually whine about people not supporting you, sometimes its you


To quote hime from November 2018:

" I am a PROUD FENIAN no c@#t will ever change that, so sing away."

Hardly surprising people in England aren't queueing up to give him a hug.

partyguinness

Pkiernan wrote: »

When you continually whine about people not supporting you, sometimes its you


To quote hime from November 2018:

" I am a PROUD FENIAN no c@#t will ever change that, so sing away."

Hardly surprising people in England aren't queueing up to give him a hug.

I don't follow Twitter but he spews out that type of nonsense and then cries like a little baby when he gets abuse over it. McLean is not the sharpest tool in the shed. He is just as moronic as the apes that abuse him from the stands- well made for each other.

bucketybuck

partyguinness wrote: »

If McLean thinks the abuse he suffers is on par with the abuse thrown at black players or the daily discrimination suffered by black people in general society then he really is living in cloud cuckoo land.

Doesn't he get death threats and bullets in the post?

I'm no expert on scales of discrimination but are death threats not pretty bad?

riffmongous

He draws it upon himself now at this stage, but that's what years of abuse and no support from the authorities has done

ThewhiteJesus

One eyed Jack wrote: »

That wasn’t his point?

His point was that some people care more about discrimination against some people than others.

I’m just not sure what he expects should happen as a result of him stating the bloody obvious.

the same thing that will happen over this farcical far left movement BLM,
Nothing.

iebamm2580

partyguinness wrote: »

Ok what discriminaiton does he suffer?

Saying it is "bollocks" really is not the smartest rebuttal.

If McLean thinks the abuse he suffers is on par with the abuse thrown at black players or the daily discrimination suffered by black people in general society then he really is living in cloud cuckoo land.

As I said he has a choice. He decides to mouth off every November about the Poppy (now I agree the Poppy BS is a load of BS). Fine that is his choice.

McGolderick and black players have no choice when they are abused about the colour of the skin they were born with.

McLean is not sticking up for injustices in the world. He is making a choice based on his political views. Fine. McLean is not sticking up for some society wide problem. It is his own narrow political allegiances that he is heckled about.

I have sat in Premier League grounds and for example I listened to all sorts of chants against Frank Lampard for being "fat". Now should we expect Frank Lampard to start crying about the fattest abuse he suffered. No of course not.

McLean might as well shout out: "The lives of Derry Republicans matter too."

Abuse about your political views and abuse about the colour of your skin are nowhere near the same. Not even on the same planet.

Have your views on the Poppy (which I agree with BTW) but you are living and working in England. What does he expect to achieve? All of a sudden the barely literate mobs in the stand will sit and contemplate his position and agree with him? Fantasy stuff.

I cannot understand why McLean even bothers explaining himself- that is his mistake. He is dealing with football fans....generally not the smartest bunch around.

If you think black pl league players suffer discrimination in their daily lives you are deluded, are you suggesting McCLean change religion so or nationality to not suffer abuse as you said black players cant change skin colour. Regularly stadiums are booing him at matches that does not happen to black players based on there skin colour.

ThewhiteJesus

partyguinness wrote: »

I don't follow Twitter but he spews out that type of nonsense and then cries like a little baby when he gets abuse over it. McLean is not the sharpest tool in the shed. He is just as moronic as the apes that abuse him from the stands- well made for each other.

Who are you referring to as Apes ?

Huntergonzo

Francie Barrett wrote: »

This is why politics should be taken out of sport entirely. The poppy is supposed to be a personal decision, but they way it's been structured by authorities, you basically have to wear one or else you're vilified for not doing so. The same thing has happened with BLM. There must be huge pressure on players to participate on these political stunts, a failure to do so would probably cost them their livelihood because the backlash from the keyboard warriors would be immense.

George Carlin is dead right, this is the road to fascism. Certain opinions are getting censored, others are promoted. People are conforming out of fear.

I agree completely, I've always felt sport should remain seperate from politics.

But taking away people's freedom of choice is particularly dangerous. Sure McClean tecnhically has a choice not to wear the poppy but he gets a lot of abuse for it and little to no backup from the media.

Same with the BLM matter taking a knee gesture, it's not optional for any player who doesn't want to risk their career, it's kneel down or face the consequences, you're opinion doesn't matter.

Now generally countries who operate on this sort of authoritarian basis are not viewed upon favourably, but why is it ok when it's dressed up as 'tolerance'?

accensi0n

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

Who are you referring to as Apes ?

The knuckle draggers.

partyguinness

bucketybuck wrote: »

Doesn't he get death threats and bullets in the post?

I'm no expert on scales of discrimination but are death threats not pretty bad?

Perhaps if he kept his mouth shut and his views to himself it would make his life a lot easier. He cannot achieve anything by going on like this.

I can't help but think that he draws it on himself. He is either incredibly dumb or incredibly naive

Launching into an anti-Poppy/oppressed Derry tirade every so often when you live and work in Stoke and West Bromwich is just not clever. I know these places and they not exactly bastions of tolerance and inclusivity. Brexit voting, Daily Mail reading bigoted White Trash would be a very generous generalisation. These areas recorded some of the highest ‘Vote Leave’ votes.

It is not dissimilar to living and working in Alabama or Mississippi and publicly mouthing off against guns or NASCAR or the Confederate flag. You are drawing a world of grief on yourself. And for what exactly?

partyguinness

iebamm2580 wrote: »

If you think black pl league players suffer discrimination in their daily lives you are deluded, are you suggesting McCLean change religion so or nationality to not suffer abuse as you said black players cant change skin colour. Regularly stadiums are booing him at matches that does not happen to black players based on there skin colour.

Go back and read my post very carefully as you have muddled up two distinct statements.

That is not what I said but how the hell do you know whether or not black players suffer discrimination in their daily life? Discrimination comes in all forms and sizes both conscious and unconscious.

OptimusTractor

Huntergonzo wrote: »

I agree completely, I've always felt sport should remain seperate from politics.

Sport particularly soccer has always been political. Some of the great footballing rivalries are born out of predominantly Right/Left divides.

Rebel_Kn1ght

Nemanja Matic doesn't wear a poppy either and doesn't take any abuse. I believe he chose not to because of the NATO bombing of Belgrade

Huntergonzo

OptimusTractor wrote: »

Sport particularly soccer has always been political. Some of the great footballing rivalries are born out of predominantly Right/Left divides.

Broadly speaking it's more tribalism I'd say, 'us v them' and all that lark.

Anyway, as long as everybody is respected and nobody gets injured in any moronic fan riots etc then we're all good.

partyguinness

partyguinness wrote: »

Ok what discriminaiton does he suffer?

Hold on, you said he suffers abuse, initially, and asked if it was based on creed. The answer is yes he does and it is based on creed. Lets not start changing goalposts here.

partyguinness wrote: »

Saying it is "bollocks" really is not the smartest rebuttal.

Replying to posts takes time and effort. If your post is a load of bollocks, people generally won't take that time and make that effort to refute it, generally because you cannot reason with someone who hasn't used reasoned themselves into that position. Here's a quick rebuttal to your points from the original post:

Being white, or male, or English speaking or any combination of the three does not preclude somebody from suffering abuse. The inference that it does is laughable. The whole concept of 'privilege' is ridiculous. Similarly, the point about him shutting up is victim blaming of the highest degree. It is on a par with saying girls shouldn't wear short skirts if they don't want to be assaulted, imo.

partyguinness wrote: »

If McLean thinks the abuse he suffers is on par with the abuse thrown at black players or the daily discrimination suffered by black people in general society then he really is living in cloud cuckoo land.

It isn't a competition. Abuse is abuse, just because one person has it worse doesn't mean you should put up with it. Should all the black premier league players put up or shut up because of the holocaust? No, of course not, because its a ridiculous standpoint. Similarly, JMC shouldn't have to deal with all that crap because of monkey chants and bananas being thrown onto the pitch.

partyguinness wrote: »

McLean is not sticking up for injustices in the world. He is making a choice based on his political views. Fine. McLean is not sticking up for some society wide problem. It is his own narrow political allegiances that he is heckled about.

What? There is an entire community North of the border for whom sectarian abuse is indeed a society wide problem, on both sides of the divide. To suggest otherwise is myopic. You have heard of the troubles, yeah?

partyguinness wrote: »

Abuse about your political views and abuse about the colour of your skin are nowhere near the same. Not even on the same planet.

Again, not a competition. I disagree that they are nowhere near the same (do you want him to convert religion or something, as if that will solve all his problems?) but even if they were the same, one doesn't negate the other.

partyguinness wrote: »

Have your views on the Poppy (which I agree with BTW) but you are living and working in England. What does he expect to achieve? All of a sudden the barely literate mobs in the stand will sit and contemplate his position and agree with him? Fantasy stuff.

So, because he's in England he should just STFU and suffer in silence, supporting the state-sponsored murder of his community members? Should we do the same with countries that have (worse) racism problems, like say Russia or Spain? Should the barely literate mobs in those countries remain unchallenged or should we try to eradicate it. If somebody said the above, and replaced "the poppy" with "racial equality" there'd be uproar (and rightly so) from all corners.

There is a strong implication from your points that, because he is white, its not as bad. That is racist in and of itself.

Hamsterchops

RandomViewer wrote: »

Maybe we should force Protestants to wear an Easter lily , or Jews to wear a Swastika or Black people to commemorate the KKK ?

Re the Easter lily, not sure that one's religion comes into it, as most people in Ireland don't wear it anyway, and most Irish folk claim to be Roman Catholics, many Catholics in England too!

Regarding any comparison between the Swastika and the poppy, or the KKK and the poppy, well I think you're just being provocative or just a bit silly?

ThewhiteJesus

partyguinness wrote: »

Perhaps if he kept his mouth shut and his views to himself it would make his life a lot easier. He cannot achieve anything by going on like this.

I can't help but think that he draws it on himself. He is either incredibly dumb or incredibly naive

Launching into an anti-Poppy/oppressed Derry tirade every so often when you live and work in Stoke and West Bromwich is just not clever. I know these places and they not exactly bastions of tolerance and inclusivity. Brexit voting, Daily Mail reading bigoted White Trash would be a very generous generalisation. These areas recorded some of the highest ‘Vote Leave’ votes.

It is not dissimilar to living and working in Alabama or Mississippi and publicly mouthing off against guns or NASCAR or the Confederate flag. You are drawing a world of grief on yourself. And for what exactly?

Not everyone is a coward who keeps quiet out of fear.

c.p.w.g.w

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And the abuse has only become more pronounced with the rise of jingoistic poppy-shaming rhetoric. The act of publicly ridiculing a professional footballer for not sporting a flower on his lapel is ridiculous. Britain no longer has an empire despite what the tabloids print, the days of colonial subjugation are over.

He should be allowed wear the Lilly come Easter, if the poppy is allowed for the brits

c.p.w.g.w

All this talk of him keeping his views to himself...if I said that of pogba I'd be accused of being a racist, trying to keep the black down...

There is a massive double standard here

iebamm2580

partyguinness wrote: »

Go back and read my post very carefully as you have muddled up two distinct statements.

That is not what I said but how the hell do you know whether or not black players suffer discrimination in their daily life? Discrimination comes in all forms and sizes both conscious and unconscious.

You said mcgoldrick and black players cant change there skin color so the abuse is unjustified, are you saying McCLean should change religion nationality to not get abuse?

dundalkfc10

Hamsterchops wrote: »

McClean leaves himself open to attack, he's deliberately said and done things that paint a big red target on himself...

The poppy thing is the obvious red flag, where out of all his team mates, the opposing team, and the fans he decides not to wear a poppy in England on poppy day!

OK, so I think the whole poppy day (compulsory wearing of) has gone far too far, specially on TV, but by not obeying the same custom as everybody else on the teams & the stadium crowd, he does stand out as not being part of the commemoration, hence it irks people.
His attitude is the problem.

Plenty of players don't wear one. Matic from Man Utd the Serbian player refuses to have a poppy on his shirt but sure its ok cause he's not Irish

The poster who started the thread can't even spell the lads name correct ffs

Huntergonzo

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

He should be allowed wear the Lilly come Easter, if the poppy is allowed for the brits

Or just leave all personal political symbols in the changing rooms and allow people to enjoy football.