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A new public park for Waterford?

  • 13-07-2020 1:52pm
    #1
    Dum_Dum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 587 ✭✭✭


    The future of the Williamstown Golf Course, the municipal golf course on the Outer Ring Road, is under consideration by the council next week.


    https://www.wlrfm.com/2020/07/13/future-of-williamstown-golf-course-uncertain/


    A suggestion to alter it into a public park is a possibility as is maintaining the status quo.


    I'm rather taken with the public park idea. There is certainly a shortage of public amenity in that area.

    I'd like the future of the Williamstown Gold Course to... 73 votes

    Keep as is
    72% 53 votes
    Change to public park
    23% 17 votes
    Something else
    4% 3 votes


«13

Comments

  • #2
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    My arse! I heard that, Mary Roche had an idea but didn't think about how it might be achieved and nor did she know anything about Williamstown GC itself. She almost dismissed it as old and male, when the listener feedback showed otherwise. 160 acre site, turning half of it into a wildflower meadow influenced park would not be a cheap and quick undertaking either.


  • #3
    Dum_Dum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 587 ✭✭✭Dum_Dum


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    My arse! I heard that, Mary Walsh had an idea but didn't think about how it might be achieved and nor did she know anything about Williamstown GC itself. She almost dismissed it as old and male, when the listener feedback showed otherwise. 160 acre site, turning half of it into a wildflower meadow influenced park would not be a cheap and quick undertaking either.


    I thought golf as a pastime was on the wane.


  • #4
    Mysterypunter
    Registered Users Posts: 2,806 ✭✭✭Mysterypunter


    Mary Roche should **** off for herself, why don't they remove the travellers from the carrickpherish road and set it up there, how am I going to make the PGA tour if they mess up the golf course. Typical that she said I've never been there myself, every political beak sticking in attempt ends in disaster, that woman is a disaster


  • #5
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Dum_Dum wrote: »
    I thought golf as a pastime was on the wane.

    Hardly, the population demographic is aging, loads of people have time to play, it's outdoors and safe as well in Covid 19 world. The secretary said this morning that they are no longer accepting people who are not already affiliated with the course as it's so busy.


  • #6
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    turning half of it into a wildflower meadow influenced park would not be a cheap and quick undertaking either.

    Likely cheaper in the long run then trying to maintain it as a golf course as it wouldn't need near as much weeding or cuitting on a monthly basis compared to the upkeep on a golf course.

    Locally to myself there is a meadow that used to be a pitch and putt, it gets a full cut maybe 2 maybe 3 times between March to September and other then that pathways are cut in it weekly/byweekly.

    Thats pretty low cost maintance compared to cutting acre upon acre of gras weekly.


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  • #7
    Stopitwillya
    Closed Accounts Posts: 531 ✭✭✭Stopitwillya


    Mary Roche should be giving back the €50,000 payout she got not too long ago when retiring from local politics. Instead she gets to keep it and returns to her €30,000 soon to be €38,000 a year part time job coming up with stupid ideas. Waterford Councillors cost us over €1 million in wages and expenses in 2019. Not money well spent.


  • #8
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Likely cheaper in the long run then trying to maintain it as a golf course as it wouldn't need near as much weeding or cuitting on a monthly basis compared to the upkeep on a golf course.

    Locally to myself there is a meadow that used to be a pitch and putt, it gets a full cut maybe 2 maybe 3 times between March to September and other then that pathways are cut in it weekly/byweekly.

    That's pretty low cost maintenance compared to cutting acre upon acre of grass weekly.

    I do not have access to the balance sheet for WGC but they do charge green fees and I expect the council operatives also work outside the facility. A wildflower meadow would be free to use (and no doubt abuse with the inevitable regular clean up)


  • #9
    JimWinters
    Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭JimWinters


    From what I’ve seen, all Mary has asked for is that the forward planning unit examine establishing a park and playground on the 130 acre golf course.

    The same people giving out about this will be giving out about the lack of amenities in the area in 20 years when it’s surrounded by houses. I remember people giving out about the park at the Williamstown roundabout years ago saying nobody would use it.

    She’s thinking ahead a decade or two, repurposing a part of the golf course that might not even be used currently. She’s not asking them to repurpose the entire golf course which I’m sure is very expensive for the council to maintain. From the sounds of it the green fees don’t cover maintenance as it stands so we’re subsidising the course. It would be great to see figures on its usage if anyone has them to hand.

    In fairness to Mary Roche, she works very hard for the people in Waterford and I’ve always thought she was one of our better councillors...


  • #10
    hardybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 5,159 ✭✭✭hardybuck


    JimWinters wrote: »
    From what I’ve seen, all Mary has asked for is that the forward planning unit examine establishing a park and playground on the 130 acre golf course.

    The same people giving out about this will be giving out about the lack of amenities in the area in 20 years when it’s surrounded by houses. I remember people giving out about the park at the Williamstown roundabout years ago saying nobody would use it.

    She’s thinking ahead a decade or two, repurposing a part of the golf course that might not even be used currently. She’s not asking them to repurpose the entire golf course which I’m sure is very expensive for the council to maintain. From the sounds of it the green fees don’t cover maintenance as it stands so we’re subsidising the course. It would be great to see figures on its usage if anyone has them to hand.

    In fairness to Mary Roche, she works very hard for the people in Waterford and I’ve always thought she was one of our better councillors...

    Mary has asked for a review of something with a view to doing something else. If my wife asked me to review our annual trip to France I think I'd be taking it that we won't be going there for a while!

    Perhaps others more learned than me will advise, but 130 acres seems generous for a golf club. Even if 10 acres could be set aside it could be possible to fit a public swimming pool, gym, bowls club, tennis courts etc. in there too.


  • #11
    JimWinters
    Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭JimWinters


    hardybuck wrote: »
    Mary has asked for a review of something with a view to doing something else.

    I might be missing something, not sure what you mean with the view to doing something else. I’m under the impression that she’s just trying to start a conversation around the park and using land the council already owns...


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  • #12
    hardybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 5,159 ✭✭✭hardybuck


    JimWinters wrote: »
    I might be missing something, not sure what you mean with the view to doing something else. I’m under the impression that she’s just trying to start a conversation around the park and using land the council already owns...

    From my understanding of it she's asking for a review, with a view towards turning it into a park.

    I.e. she's asking for them to consider turning it into a park unless there's a reason not to.


  • #13
    JimWinters
    Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭JimWinters


    hardybuck wrote: »
    From my understanding of it she's asking for a review, with a view towards turning it into a park.

    I.e. she's asking for them to consider turning it into a park unless there's a reason not to.

    Ah ok, so she’s asking them to examine putting a park there because she’d like there to be a park there. I think she’s being fairly upfront about that. I suppose that happens with every project in the council


  • #14
    BBM77
    Registered Users Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭BBM77


    JimWinters wrote: »
    From what I’ve seen, all Mary has asked for is that the forward planning unit examine establishing a park and playground on the 130 acre golf course.

    The same people giving out about this will be giving out about the lack of amenities in the area in 20 years when it’s surrounded by houses. I remember people giving out about the park at the Williamstown roundabout years ago saying nobody would use it.

    She’s thinking ahead a decade or two, repurposing a part of the golf course that might not even be used currently. She’s not asking them to repurpose the entire golf course which I’m sure is very expensive for the council to maintain. From the sounds of it the green fees don’t cover maintenance as it stands so we’re subsidising the course. It would be great to see figures on its usage if anyone has them to hand.

    In fairness to Mary Roche, she works very hard for the people in Waterford and I’ve always thought she was one of our better councillors...

    She was thinking was she! I listened to the interview and she sounded like she did not know what she was talking about. She said she was never even in the golf course and did not know how many people use it. Which is a lot. Part of her argument was actually pretty sexist. She said it was mainly used by old males. Which was a stupid thing to say and showed how little she knows about the amenity in question. Damien Tiernan said he was amazed at the amount of texts that came in support of keeping the course as is.


  • #15
    hardybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 5,159 ✭✭✭hardybuck


    BBM77 wrote: »
    She was thinking was she! I listened to the interview and she sounded like she did not know what she was talking about. She said she was never even in the golf course and did not know how many people use it. Which is a lot. Part of her argument was actually pretty sexist. She said it was mainly used by old males. Which was a stupid thing to say and showed how little she knows about the amenity in question. Damien Tiernan said he was amazed at the amount of texts that came in support of keeping the course as is.

    What's wrong with old males I wonder!?


  • #16
    JimWinters
    Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭JimWinters


    BBM77 wrote: »
    She was thinking was she! I listened to the interview and she sounded like she did not know what she was talking about. She said she was never even in the golf course and did not know how many people use it. Which is a lot. Part of her argument was actually pretty sexist. She said it was mainly used by old males. Which was a stupid thing to say and showed how little she knows about the amenity in question. Damien Tiernan said he was amazed at the amount of texts that came in support of keeping the course as is.

    Interesting, must have a listen back thanks.

    The poll on this thread should include an option to add a park to the golf course, not replace it. No harm considering it is all I’m saying...


  • #17
    decies
    Registered Users Posts: 3,351 ✭✭✭decies


    The most ridiculous utterings I have heard from a local politician was Mary Roche today . The woman is fond of her own voice at the best of times , play nine holes twice , god almighty the woman is clueless and should have retired years ago !!


  • #18
    Stopitwillya
    Closed Accounts Posts: 531 ✭✭✭Stopitwillya


    decies wrote: »
    The most ridiculous utterings I have heard from a local politician was Mary Roche today . The woman is fond of her own voice at the best of times , play nine holes twice , god almighty the woman is clueless and should have retired years ago !!

    She did retire less than 2 years ago and got €50k payout for retiring.


  • #19
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    I do not have access to the balance sheet for WGC but they do charge green fees and I expect the council operatives also work outside the facility. A wildflower meadow would be free to use (and no doubt abuse with the inevitable regular clean up)

    So we can't have something nice because some people might litter?

    Unlike a golf course a park can be enjoyed by thousands upon thousands more people, it can be utitlised by the entire city rather then the few who will commit to paying fee's to access the same space when its a golf course.

    Golf courses are not a good use of land, end of.


  • #20
    greenspurs
    Registered Users Posts: 10,217 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    Cabaal wrote: »
    So we can't have something nice because some people might litter?

    Unlike a golf course a park can be enjoyed by thousands upon thousands more people, it can be utitlised by the entire city rather then the few who will commit to paying fee's to access the same space when its a golf course.

    Golf courses are not a good use of land, end of.

    Do you not have the Eco park, and the 'Park' already ?
    247469249_2017413731748359_7675802031635703098_n.jpg

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... "



  • #21
    BBM77
    Registered Users Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭BBM77


    hardybuck wrote: »
    What's wrong with old males I wonder!?

    Yeah, imagine the fuss there would be if a man councillor said something should be changed because it was used mainly by old females. You’d think if you were going to put down a council motion on something and go on the radio to talk about it you would research it a bit first. And make an argument that did not involve insulting people. I am not even a golfer or an old man. It was just annoying how little though Mary Roche put into this with a sexist undertone to boot.


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  • #22
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Williamstown is the peoples course, the better off have two courses in the city environs so why should the little (old) man be robbed of the joys of a good walk spoilt?

    I'm not against what Roche proposed with regard to an off road walking space which is semi wild, far from it indeed but she needs to look beyond a simplistic "oh we own that so lets change it" approach.

    Is there a database of lands held by the council?


  • #23
    Oscar Madison
    Registered Users Posts: 689 ✭✭✭Oscar Madison


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    Williamstown is the peoples course, the better off have two courses in the city environs so why should the little (old) man be robbed of the joys of a good walk spoilt?

    Is there a database of lands held by the council?

    I'm not a golfer so this has no real impact for me but we're not short on off road places to walk!
    We've plenty of coastline, a greenway, Mt. Congreve and plenty of other places to stretch our legs!


  • #24
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Talking about on WLR right now, vox pox of golfers.


  • #25
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    greenspurs wrote: »
    Do you not have the Eco park, and the 'Park' already ?

    You know a city's can have more then two parks right?

    Cork has numerous parks for example, you also have to think of future developments and the need for public space for those people,.


  • #26
    Max Powers
    Registered Users Posts: 3,510 ✭✭✭Max Powers


    A bad idea I'd say Mary, unless cost is prohibitive, keep the golf course. I don't play golf BTW. There is a park down the road by, WLR, eco is near too, people's park not far, numerous other green areas too, especially around dunmore road area (viewmount, etc) they could probably do with some sort of decent green area planned out by ballygunner as there is a lot of housing there already and a lot more planned. I'm sure other areas of the city more in need of green areas too.


  • #27
    Stopitwillya
    Closed Accounts Posts: 531 ✭✭✭Stopitwillya


    Cabaal wrote: »
    You know a city's can have more then two parks right?

    Cork has numerous parks for example, you also have to think of future developments and the need for public space for those people,.

    We also have a park across from activate with plenty of green space for developing it. At the moment it's a fairly crap park but the potential is there to improve it. It's also less than a mile away from the golf course.


  • #28
    BBM77
    Registered Users Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭BBM77


    Cabaal wrote: »
    You know a city's can have more then two parks right?

    Cork has numerous parks for example, you also have to think of future developments and the need for public space for those people,.

    We have two parks, many green spaces and numerous places to walk, there is only one municipal golf course.


  • #29
    greenspurs
    Registered Users Posts: 10,217 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    Cabaal wrote: »
    You know a city's can have more then two parks right?

    Cork has numerous parks for example, you also have to think of future developments and the need for public space for those people,.

    and theres 2 municipal courses in Cork city and 1 pitch and putt ... ….
    247469249_2017413731748359_7675802031635703098_n.jpg

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... "



  • #30
    gscully
    Registered Users Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭gscully


    There is also ample land adjacent to the golf course for a playground if that's what her real angle is.

    Most people cannot afford to pay €700+ annually to a golf club, so to be able to play a round for €15 or so is a great option to have.

    Why not purchase the old Waterford Crystal sports complex and make a park there?


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  • #31
    hardybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 5,159 ✭✭✭hardybuck


    Cabaal wrote: »
    You know a city's can have more then two parks right?

    Cork has numerous parks for example, you also have to think of future developments and the need for public space for those people,.

    Waterford has better parks than Cork and a much smaller population.


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