The decline of Irish journalism

Kivaro · 12-07-2020 10:43am #1

When I say decline, I am not just talking about the quality of the trade, but the exodus of journalists to take up government positions.

I checked online yesterday about the departure of Fiach Kelly, deputy political editor of The Irish Times, for the job as special advisor to to Helen McEntee, the minister for justice, but there was nothing to be found online, except on a Times (The Times) article. Another departure was that of Susan Mitchell, deputy editor of The Sunday Business Post (SBP), who also took up the position of adviser to Stephen Donnelly, the health minister.
To quote The Times article:
"This means two journalists who would ordinarily have held the new government to account will instead be working for it."

There appears to be an exodus from Irish newspapers and RTE for jobs in governmental buildings in the last couple of years, which would lead one to question if the main reason why the quality of Irish journalism has degraded to such an extent is due to the possibility of prospective jobs in government for them if they are supportive of government initiatives and policies.

To me, Irish journalists should have an adversarial relationship with government in order to keep them honest, but this is not evident for the most part in the last number of years in Ireland.
So who is the public's advocate? Who will ask the really important questions that are not really being asked? Is the concept of impartial investigative reporting in Ireland gone for good?
I initially thought that being very liberal in media was just the current fad for Irish journalists, but apparently there is a prospective pot of gold for those journalists and editors who play well with government in the form of future tax payer funded State employment.

I think that stinks.

Invidious · 12-07-2020 11:00am

Kivaro wrote: »

To me, Irish journalists should have an adversarial relationship with government in order to keep them honest, but this is not evident for the most part in the last number of years in Ireland.

Funded by a licence fee imposed by the very same government it should be holding to account, RTE has always found it more advantageous to be deferential to those in power, rather than adversarial.

Other media outlets have bowed to political correctness. For example, it is now impossible for any Irish journalist to give an accurate portrayal of traveller culture. Unless the article is about the plight of a poor ethnic minority oppressed by the racist settled people, a report won't see the light of day.

The British media does a better job of holding Ireland to account than the Irish media. The Sunday Times exposed the Pamela Izebekhai scam when the Irish media were all fawning over her and demanding that she be granted asylum.

Eric Cartman · 12-07-2020 11:03am

Print media is on its knees, online news media cant generate enough ad revenue to keep afloat, paywalls dont entice people in . Decent journalists have been leaving in droves for years to work in politics, PR or other places because theres no stable future in papers/online journalism

Kivaro · 12-07-2020 11:12am

Invidious wrote: »

The British media does a better job of holding Ireland to account than the Irish media. The Sunday Times exposed the Pamela Izebekhai scam when the Irish media were all fawning over her and demanding that she be granted asylum.

The Sunday Times also broke the news about the Social Democrats candidate Ellie Kisyombe, who lied in her Irish asylum application. She secured a student visa in Ireland, before travelling to the UK and claiming asylum there. When that failed, she came back to Ireland. As expected in Ireland, she was eventually granted leave to remain. The Pamela Izebekhai scam cost the Irish tax payer over €1 million in costs before finally deporting her back to Nigeria.

Isn't it a bit odd that it takes an English newspaper to bring these stories to the fore?

12-07-2020 11:14am

Its the lack of sport,hurling in particular

Theres nothing left,worth reporting on

12-07-2020 11:22am

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Print media is on its knees, online news media cant generate enough ad revenue to keep afloat, paywalls dont entice people in . Decent journalists have been leaving in droves for years to work in politics, PR or other places because theres no stable future in papers/online journalism

The work load is crazy and it's very hard to have a balanced family life working as a political journalist. Constant online demands while also needing to put out a paper each night is driving journalists out of the game. Fiach Kelly's wife is also a pol cor and they have a young family so I would imagine something had to give.

KiKi III · 12-07-2020 11:29am

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Print media is on its knees, online news media cant generate enough ad revenue to keep afloat, paywalls dont entice people in . Decent journalists have been leaving in droves for years to work in politics, PR or other places because theres no stable future in papers/online journalism

I'd agree with that as far as young and mid-level journalists go. If you're Deputy Editor at a national your future in the industry is fairly secure; that's not why they're jumping ship.

I listen to the Irish Times Politics podcast and I like it because they can give a bit more colour and background to situations that you don't get in a newspaper article - but the election coverage was so soft on establishment parties it was pretty farcical.

Kivaro · 12-07-2020 11:33am

KiKi III wrote: »

I'd agree with that as far as young and mid-level journalists go. If you're Deputy Editor at a national your future in the industry is fairly secure; that's not why they're jumping ship.

I listen to the Irish Times Politics podcast and I like it because they can give a bit more colour and background to situations that you don't get in a newspaper article - but the election coverage was so soft on establishment parties it was pretty farcical.

That's why I used two deputy editors as examples in my OP.
Why are they jumping ship?

mr_edge_to_you · 12-07-2020 11:41am

This is what happens when people aren't prepared to pay for stuff. Same thing has been happening in music for the last 20 years. Standards slip!

I appreciate that the Irish Independent may not be to everyone's liking but I am more than happy to pay a couple of euro each week/month to keep it going.

MrMusician18 · 12-07-2020 11:43am

Kivaro wrote: »

That's why I used two deputy editors as examples in my OP.
Why are they jumping ship?

It's probably hard to draw inferences from two individuals whose personal circumstances would have played a larger role in their move than the general atmosphere in print journalism.

That said, print is seeing it's death by a thousand cuts though happen right in front of it, quality throughout the industry is much lower that it was in the mid 90s. Journos are and will be exiting the papers looking for more stable employment.

It had been mooted by Timmy Dooley in the last Dail that a FF government would consider introducing payments to media in order to maintain a plurality of voices. I wonder will t that go anywhere now?

Invidious · 12-07-2020 11:48am

Kivaro wrote: »

That's why I used two deputy editors as examples in my OP.
Why are they jumping ship?

No newspaper job in Ireland, however senior, can be seen as secure at the present time.

The sector is facing unprecedented headwinds. Readership for print journalism is declining dramatically in the face of competition from the Internet. The Sunday Business Post almost ceased publication a few years ago, before it was sold to a private equity firm. Now, Covid-19 has further impacted ad revenue and sales. The paper has cut salaries and is depending on state support.

Right now, a secure government job looks far better than anything the journalism sector has to offer, which probably explains why senior figures are jumping ship.

IRE60 · 12-07-2020 11:54am

There are many reasons for the decline - I attach the primary offender!

12-07-2020 11:58am

Invidious wrote: »

Right now, a secure government job looks far better than anything the journalism sector has to offer, which probably explains why senior figures are jumping ship.

It isn't secure, though. Political advisers do not have permanent contracts, their employment may be ceased when the Minister leaves office. The current Ministers are likely to be reshuffled in 2 years, and people like Susan Mitchell will probably be out of a job.

We needn't be too cynical, though, in some cases people are taking these jobs to make a positive contribution to society. I believe Mitchell fits into that category, you can't doubt her passion for good health-policy. Probably the most informed and effective health journalist the country has ever had.

biko · 12-07-2020 12:02pm

The internet has transformed the way we get and collate information.
I think we are seeing the decline of activist journalists, and the rise of citizen journalists.

Cal4567 · 12-07-2020 12:03pm

I'd be a good example. Grew up buying a daily paper, but about 20 years ago, found I only had time to read the weekends, then it would be Wednesday, 3 days later, before I had even finished that. Took The Sunday Times, found the INDO more and more little more than a comic. Got more and more fed up with more 'analysis' than news.

Time changes everything and time has come for the print media. I have I think a wide circle of friends. I only know of two who have subscribed to the IT, no one who pays for the INDO.

What I had read in recent years, it seemed I was reading PR from the establishment parties. No thanks.

Kivaro · 12-07-2020 12:07pm

Maybe I used the wrong word "decline" in the thread title.
What I was getting at was the decline in quality, impartiality, etc.
The recent Irish Times Kitty Holland's poorly written story on the homeless mother in the car comes to mind.

The decrease of advertising, the advance of online media etc. and especially Covid-19 are understandable reasons for the physical decline of Irish journalism. What I wanted to discuss is the lack of journalistic integrity and impartiality on many reports and opinion pieces that are presented by journalists and editors in Ireland; that's the decline I'm talking about.

Joe_ Public · 12-07-2020 12:07pm

Money. That would be my first guess as to why journalists make the move into the political fold. It's something that has been going on for years, back to the days of Sean Duignan and Fergus Finlay. It's a well paid job for minimum 4/5 years, probably longer, and it's a calculated gamble they'll have options if or when it comes to an end. Cathy Herbert, Mark Costigan, Chris O'Donoghue all people who had high profile media jobs that went into government, just off top of my head. Agree irish journalism not in rude health but this is symptom rather than cause.

boombang · 12-07-2020 12:13pm

The bleeding heart garbage that Kitty Holland keeps writing about homelessness (when there is a serious housing affordability problem) must drive the proper journos at the Irish Times crazy. How the editors keep printing that nonsense is amazing.

Edgware · 12-07-2020 12:22pm

Its the loss of quality that is causing a decline in sales. I havent bought The Sun since they dropped the Page 3 glamour section. How often did the delights of Sam Fox, Linda Lusardi etc brighten up a dreary morning?

Eric Cartman · 12-07-2020 12:24pm

boombang wrote: »

The bleeding heart garbage that Kitty Holland keeps writing about homelessness (when there is a serious housing affordability problem) must drive the proper journos at the Irish Times crazy. How the editors keep printing that nonsense is amazing.

The irish times is doomed to incorrectly re write history. I hope in 50 years time nobody dares utter a word una mullally wrote and thinks it was in any way truthful or how the nation felt about anything

MrMusician18 · 12-07-2020 12:25pm

Kivaro wrote: »

Maybe I used the wrong word "decline" in the thread title.
What I was getting at was the decline in quality, impartiality, etc.
The recent Irish Times Kitty Holland's poorly written story on the homeless mother in the car comes to mind.

The decrease of advertising, the advance of online media etc. and especially Covid-19 are understandable reasons for the physical decline of Irish journalism. What I wanted to discuss is the lack of journalistic integrity and impartiality on many reports and opinion pieces that are presented by journalists and editors in Ireland; that's the decline I'm talking about.

Rightly or wrongly, you wouldn't expect an article written by Kitty to take a different slant on that particular issue.

When her name is under the byline, I would never expect a "this woman did it to herself" type article.

12-07-2020 12:25pm

Cal4567 wrote: »

What I had read in recent years, it seemed I was reading PR from the establishment parties. No thanks.

Completely agree with this and the reason why we don't purchase newspapers anymore. Without a doubt censorship or restrictions play a big part also in how a reporter can tell the story!

KiKi III · 12-07-2020 12:26pm

I subscribe to one national and one international newspaper, at a total cost of €13/month.

Anyone who never, ever buys a paper, subscribes to a news site, or clicks on an ad but complains about the decline in quality journalism is part of the problem.

MrMusician18 · 12-07-2020 12:31pm

boombang wrote: »

The bleeding heart garbage that Kitty Holland keeps writing about homelessness (when there is a serious housing affordability problem) must drive the proper journos at the Irish Times crazy. How the editors keep printing that nonsense is amazing.

Housing and homelessness are bundled together as the same issues when they are completely different. Housing is an affordability problem, where working families have found themselves priced out of renting and buying in good locations - forcing them Into unsustainable commutes.

Homelessness on the other hand, is about addiction services and has been around forever. I suspect if the affordability problem was solved to a reasonable extent then homelessness wouldn't even be on the political radar.

ExMachina1000 · 12-07-2020 12:34pm

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

This is what happens when people aren't prepared to pay for stuff. Same thing has been happening in music for the last 20 years. Standards slip!

I appreciate that the Irish Independent may not be to everyone's liking but I am more than happy to pay a couple of euro each week/month to keep it going.

I read the indo most days. They have also gone down the route of throwing anti Trump pieces in at every opportunity just to fill a few more inches.

Kivaro · 12-07-2020 12:35pm

Oscar Madison wrote: »

Completely agree with this and the reason why we don't purchase newspapers anymore. Without a doubt censorship or restrictions play a big part also in how a reporter can tell the story!

So here is the question:
If there was a newspaper/media outlet that echoed the sentiments of the majority in this country, would it be successful?

I'm talking about a centrist-leading news source; not left or right. At the moment, all of the main Irish papers and RTE have a left liberal leaning perspective on stories, which is why Traveller "homeless" stories, and reports on Direct Provision, asylum seekers etc. take a certain slant ..... and generally without an opposing view presented.

If, for example, the Irish Times became more centrist; would we buy more papers/subscriptions from them?

MrMusician18 · 12-07-2020 12:35pm

KiKi III wrote: »

I subscribe to one national and one international newspaper, at a total cost of €13/month.

Anyone who never, ever buys a paper, subscribes to a news site, or clicks on an ad but complains about the decline in quality journalism is part of the problem.

Take the IT or the Indo, why would I subscribe to it when it's quality is so poor? The country doesn't need agenda driven reporting, it needs fair reporting.
If either or both go to the wall then so be it. They haven't added anything to the national conversation in years.

12-07-2020 12:36pm

KiKi III wrote: »

I subscribe to one national and one international newspaper, at a total cost of €13/month.

Anyone who never, ever buys a paper, subscribes to a news site, or clicks on an ad but complains about the decline in quality journalism is part of the problem.

We live in a very small country and whether you like it or not, it is a very controlled country we live in in all aspects of live.
If I want to buy Pravda to which in my mind The Irish Independent has become and believe the propaganda they spout in
the sacred name of journalism that I am an idiot who deserves nothing more than contempt for supporting such a print!

EchoIndia · 12-07-2020 12:36pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The work load is crazy and it's very hard to have a balanced family life working as a political journalist. Constant online demands while also needing to put out a paper each night is driving journalists out of the game. Fiach Kelly's wife is also a pol cor and they have a young family so I would imagine something had to give.

Anyone who may think that being an advisor to a senior Minister in an exposed brief is going to be easier than being a journalist is mistaken.

KiKi III · 12-07-2020 12:39pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Take the IT or the Indo, why would I subscribe to it when it's quality is so poor? The country doesn't need agenda driven reporting, it needs fair reporting.
If either or both go to the wall then so be it. They haven't added anything to the national conversation in years.

Oscar Madison wrote: »

We live in a very small country and whether you like it or not, it is a very controlled country we live in in all aspects of live.
If I want to buy Pravda to which in my mind The Irish Independent has become and believe the propaganda they spout in
the sacred name of journalism that I am an idiot who deserves nothing more than contempt for supporting such a print!

What news outlets have you been relying on for updates during the Covid 19 outbreak in Ireland, and how do you support them?

KungPao · 12-07-2020 12:40pm

I might start buying ‘the paper’ again. Just thinking about it now, I miss turning the pages and reading about stuff I wouldn’t necessarily read online. Even stupid stuff like the horoscope and Hagar the Horrible or The Far Side sketches, personal ads etc.

It gives your eyes a break from bright screens too.

We’ll be misty eyed when they’re gone, but it’s our own fault.

Richard Hillman · 12-07-2020 12:45pm

Makes you wonder why the media were fawning over themselves to tell us that the government were playing a "Blinder" in regard to Covid, despite being amongst the worst in the world. The only comparisons were of the U.S and UK and then the easily bat downable New Zealand who preformed well but are and island in the ****hole of nowhere.

They knew a government was being formed and wanted to keep themselves within frame for a secure and lecrutive "advisor" role.

KiKi III · 12-07-2020 12:46pm

They're two separate issues really; Irish politicians, journalists and NGOs are all far too cosy with each other and how quality journalism can take place when all revenue streams are being hit.

thebaz · 12-07-2020 12:47pm

The rise of the internet and social media really killed off quality journalism - worked in the industry myself independently , and the value of a good story or good photograph plummeted , papers found new graduates would write copy or take photographs for next to next nothing - and thers no shortage of work if you work for nothing - except quality nose dives too.

rainbowtrout · 12-07-2020 12:48pm

Kivaro wrote: »

So here is the question:

If, for example, the Irish Times became more centrist; would we buy more papers/subscriptions from them?

No. Newspapers worked extremely well 20-25 years ago when the majority of people did not have the internet. Now you can get news instantly and get it for free somewhere online. It's often poor quality, but it's free.

News is instant these days and people are plugged in 24/7, reporting the news 24 hours later means they've missed the scoop in many cases. Lots of people are now too busy to read a paper and scroll through headlines catching bits and pieces and short articles on news websites or on their social media.

Even if the journalism was better quality they still won't be able to entice people to buy a newspaper who have stopped buying them, or more to the point, who have grown up with the internet as part of their lives so have never bought one.

Invidious · 12-07-2020 12:51pm

Kivaro wrote: »

Maybe I used the wrong word "decline" in the thread title.
What I was getting at was the decline in quality, impartiality, etc.
The recent Irish Times Kitty Holland's poorly written story on the homeless mother in the car comes to mind.

Simplistic emotional narratives, not journalism, now dominate the media. Journalists routinely lecture us about the plight of Travellers, asylum seekers, the homeless, and other sacred cows of Irish society, without ever criticizing or questioning them in any meaningful way.

The Irish Times can run a story about a homeless mother "forced" to sleep in her car, even though she turned down a house because she didn't like the location. The media had a field day about how the state had "failed" Margaret Cash, without asking why she had 7 children by age 27 without a job or any way to support them. RTE churns out endless reports portraying Travellers as victims of settled people's racism — but hardly anything about Travellers' own criminality and anti-social behavior.

We don't see stories about mothers forcing their children to sleep in Garda stations and cars so they can campaign for foreva homes in locations of their choice. We don't see stories about people irresponsibly having large numbers of children and leaving them for the state to raise. We don't see stories about Travellers' criminality, tax fraud, and social welfare fraud — or any other explanation for how a community allegedly with 80% unemployment can afford lavish houses, cars, weddings, and First Communion ceremonies that are beyond the means of most working people.

Only one kind of story can be told, and so journalists spend more time manipulating readers emotionally than reporting facts. Knowing that the real story is often not what the media reports, people have become cynical and distrustful of jounalists, and so they don't buy papers to read their biased and partial stories.

If journalists would actually report the truth, we might see more faith in the media, but I don't see that happening again.

ExMachina1000 · 12-07-2020 12:54pm

Invidious wrote: »

Simplistic emotional narratives, not journalism, now dominate the media. Journalists routinely lecture us about the plight of Travellers, asylum seekers, the homeless, and other sacred cows of Irish society, without ever criticizing or questioning them in any meaningful way.

The Irish Times can run a story about a homeless mother "forced" to sleep in her car, even though she turned down a house because she didn't like the location. The media had a field day about how the state had "failed" Margaret Cash, without asking why she had 7 children by age 27 without a job or any way to support them. RTE churns out endless reports portraying Travellers as victims of settled people's racism — but hardly anything about Travellers' own criminality and anti-social behavior.

We don't see stories about mothers forcing their children to sleep in Garda stations and cars so they can campaign for foreva homes in locations of their choice. We don't see stories about people irresponsibly having large numbers of children and leaving them for the state to raise. We don't see stories about Travellers' criminality, tax fraud, and social welfare fraud — or any other explanation for how a community allegedly with 80% unemployment can afford lavish houses, cars, weddings, and First Communion ceremonies that are beyond the means of most working people.

Only one kind of story can be told, and so journalists spend more time manipulating readers emotionally than reporting facts. Knowing that the real story is often not what the media reports, people have become cynical and distrustful of jounalists, and so they don't buy papers to read their biased and partial stories.

If journalists would actually report the truth, we might see more faith in the media, but I don't see that happening again.

The Irish times is our version of the guardian. Agenda driven liberal drivel. No news just opinion. Garbage media.
Online versions of similar would be buzzfeed and nowthis.

Your post is accurate and I agree 100%

YellowBucket · 12-07-2020 12:54pm

They’re all being hit by dwindling advertising sales and a small market. That’s limiting the ability to do anything that involves serious analysis or reporting resources.

The typical money made by most journalists here would hardly put dinner on the table. I would doubt it’s any kind of sensible career choice anymore.

The result of that is part time opinion pieces and contributors with agendas and editors trying to use mixes of those to give a sense of balance, which it often doesn’t actually achieve.

As for the Irish Times being Ireland’s version of the Guardian?!!! It has regular columns from very conservative Iona Institute types...

Edgware · 12-07-2020 12:55pm

KiKi III wrote: »

They're two separate issues really; Irish politicians, journalists and NGOs are all far too cosy with each other and how quality journalism can take place when all revenue streams are being hit.

Ireland is just too small for journalists to got out on a limb and over attack the status quo.
As a result the room is there for nut jobs like Gemma to push conspiracy theories.
I recall during the financial crisis a so called respected financial commentator refusing to criticise Neary the Financial Regulator because he " didnt want to attack a fellow county man"
F.F.S.!

Cal4567 · 12-07-2020 12:56pm

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Makes you wonder why the media were fawning over themselves to tell us that the government were playing a "Blinder" in regard to Covid, despite being amongst the worst in the world. The only comparisons were of the U.S and UK and then the easily bat downable New Zealand who preformed well but are and island in the ****hole of nowhere.

They knew a government was being formed and wanted to keep themselves within frame for a secure and lecrutive "advisor" role.

I had the very same thought. Also some of these journos tend to give the game away with some of their tweets when it comes to some stories.

I would have felt a decade ao, that no one under 30 buys a newspaper. That's now is almost no one under 40. I don't think in a decade when they are reaching 50, they will be buying one either.

Irishphotodesk · 12-07-2020 12:59pm

KiKi III wrote: »

I subscribe to one national and one international newspaper, at a total cost of €13/month.

Anyone who never, ever buys a paper, subscribes to a news site, or clicks on an ad but complains about the decline in quality journalism is part of the problem.

I take exception to that, I don't buy a newspaper unless they print my pictures, I can't afford to with the rates for usage dropping by over 50% in the past 10years.

Last week I was told that my income will now drop by a further €10k yr, which means under my current setup, I'm earning about €8k a year - yes ... Eight , I'm currently doing 3 days every two weeks but that isn't year round employment, it's since end of march (pre covid I was working 6 days a week), I don't qualify for covid because I'm still in employment and I have been battling with social welfare to get assistance, which has been extremely tough mentally and physically.

I feel I can complain about the decline in quality journalism, because I can see it in print, newspapers aren't filled with news anymore, they are filled with opinion pieces and churnalism.

How many newspaper articles are published using former sports stars opinions on a game or their opinion on a current trend.
It's impossible to flick through the pages of a newspaper and not find a multitude of opinion pieces.

As for churnalism, how many stories are written by journalists who don't actually leave the office, they are ordered to rewrite copy that another paper has, or write an article about how Conor McGregor's niece celebrated her birthday, not to mention the celeb/model post of the day ... I see Roz Purcell and Rosanna Davison have recently had their tweets/Instagram published as if it were of national importance.

Hard news, investigate journalism seems to be almost dead, very few papers appreciate that journalists need to be funded and the good ones will find you exclusives, the good ones will give you a different angle to the other journalists at the same event.
The people that are making these cuts to journalism are people who (it would appear) are only interested in the bottom line ... It's all about money at the end of the day, those that have it don't understand the value of it.

As an example, many of the newspapers in Ireland no longer have their own archives of images, which means that in 5yrs, 10yrs 20yrs if they are doing a flashback piece about the anniversary of some event, they will have to pay the agency who supplied them with images 5/10/20yrs ago and if that agency is gone, they have to pay the original photographer, which means they may find themselves in trouble in the long run if they were to use the images without permission, for the sake of paying a photographer €100-250 for covering the day/event.
Yes, they are saving money not having to pay storage for archive etc but it's a short term gain, long term loss, the people making the decisions cannot see this because they may not understand the knock on effect the money saving can have.

StackSteevens · 12-07-2020 1:08pm

boombang wrote: »

The bleeding heart garbage that Kitty Holland keeps writing about homelessness (when there is a serious housing affordability problem) must drive the proper journos at the Irish Times crazy. How the editors keep printing that nonsense is amazing.

The Phoenix (before I eventually gave up on it) used to give occasional insights into how the Irish Guardian Times is being driven into the skip by some of its militant, woke journos who are running its NUJ coven.

I stopped buying it years ago, although a family member allows me to avail of their online sub so I can read the juvenile scribblings of both Una Mullally and Tintawn O'Fool whenever I'm constipated. Although I draw the line at Kitty Holland and Sorcha Pollak. 🤮

Beechwoodspark · 12-07-2020 1:10pm

Always had a hunch about fiach Kelly - on the Irish Times podcast he was usually pro FG over the last year or so.

KiKi III · 12-07-2020 1:12pm

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

I take exception to that, I don't buy a newspaper unless they print my pictures, I can't afford to with the rates for usage dropping by over 50% in the past 10years.

Last week I was told that my income will now drop by a further €10k yr, which means under my current setup, I'm earning about €8k a year - yes ... Eight , I'm currently doing 3 days every two weeks but that isn't year round employment, it's since end of march (pre covid I was working 6 days a week), I don't qualify for covid because I'm still in employment and I have been battling with social welfare to get assistance, which has been extremely tough mentally and physically.

I feel I can complain about the decline in quality journalism, because I can see it in print, newspapers aren't filled with news anymore, they are filled with opinion pieces and churnalism.

How many newspaper articles are published using former sports stars opinions on a game or their opinion on a current trend.
It's impossible to flick through the pages of a newspaper and not find a multitude of opinion pieces.

As for churnalism, how many stories are written by journalists who don't actually leave the office, they are ordered to rewrite copy that another paper has, or write an article about how Conor McGregor's niece celebrated her birthday, not to mention the celeb/model post of the day ... I see Roz Purcell and Rosanna Davison have recently had their tweets/Instagram published as if it were of national importance.

Hard news, investigate journalism seems to be almost dead, very few papers appreciate that journalists need to be funded and the good ones will find you exclusives, the good ones will give you a different angle to the other journalists at the same event.
The people that are making these cuts to journalism are people who (it would appear) are only interested in the bottom line ... It's all about money at the end of the day, those that have it don't understand the value of it.

As an example, many of the newspapers in Ireland no longer have their own archives of images, which means that in 5yrs, 10yrs 20yrs if they are doing a flashback piece about the anniversary of some event, they will have to pay the agency who supplied them with images 5/10/20yrs ago and if that agency is gone, they have to pay the original photographer, which means they may find themselves in trouble in the long run if they were to use the images without permission, for the sake of paying a photographer €100-250 for covering the day/event.
Yes, they are saving money not having to pay storage for archive etc but it's a short term gain, long term loss, the people making the decisions cannot see this because they may not understand the knock on effect the money saving can have.

So you'd like to be paid fairly for your work? That seems reasonable. Is it not also reasonable for a newspaper to expect people to pay for their work? For every article you read, there's a journalist, a photographer and an editor to be paid for, possibly more than one journalist and a sub-editor.

Again I'll ask, which news outlets did you rely on during Covid, and how do you support them? Or for election coverage? Where did you turn for Brexit coverage? Where do you go to for updates when there's a terrorist attack in a nearby European city? Or when there's a strike? When there's a major murder trial like Ana Kreigel's? Or a political scandal like Maria Bailey's SwingGate?

Yeah, there's a lot of fluff out there these days but here's the truth of it: You can have quality journalism or you can have free journalism but in most cases you can't have both.

StackSteevens · 12-07-2020 1:13pm

KiKi III wrote: »

I subscribe to one national and one international newspaper, at a total cost of €13/month.

At €5 a month the "Oirish" edition of the London Times is a complete no-brainer.

I also buy the excellent Irish Examiner on Saturdays and frequently visit its very good website. So I'm probably up to your €13 monthly outlay.

Wild horses wouldn't get me to pay a cent to the Guardian or its second-rate Irish clone.

.

growleaves · 12-07-2020 1:18pm

This is what happens when people aren't prepared to pay for stuff.

They destroyed their own product by standardising it. Media outlets are indistinguishable from one another and that is mostly by choice - they want to feed you the same generic opinions and calculated misrepresentation as the Guardian, NYT etc., etc.

If Irish media outlets had chosen to offer original and heterodox reporting and opinion then they wouldn't have made themselves redundant. It would be at the cost of enforcing globalised political conformity, which is the real priority over and above profit or circulation.

Desmond Fennell (who used to write for the Irish Press) dates this standardisation of Irish media from the 1960s onwards. Does anyone here remember Nuala O'Faoilean calling it a "conspiracy theory" that Conor Brady was deliberately turning the Irish Times into a liberal newspaper?

MrMusician18 · 12-07-2020 1:19pm

YellowBucket wrote: »

They’re all being hit by dwindling advertising sales and a small market. That’s limiting the ability to do anything that involves serious analysis or reporting resources.

The typical money made by most journalists here would hardly put dinner on the table. I would doubt it’s any kind of sensible career choice anymore.

The result of that is part time opinion pieces and contributors with agendas and editors trying to use mixes of those to give a sense of balance, which it often doesn’t actually achieve.

As for the Irish Times being Ireland’s version of the Guardian?!!! It has regular columns from very conservative Iona Institute types...

Using the hard/loon right to give balance isn't giving balance really. That just reinforces the position you want to push as the reasonable argument.

I have given up on the paper some time ago, but I cannot recall an editorial that took a centre-right position - for example thinking a republican US president might be ok.

KiKi III · 12-07-2020 1:22pm

Let's compare it to a Netflix subsciption.

There's an awful lot of garbage I'd never watch on Netflix, but there's also a lot of stuff I'm interested in. I see the stuff I'm interested in as being well worth the €11/month. If I wanted access to those shows for free, I'd have to go to some crappy site with tons of irritating ads.

I have zero interest in the Sports section of any newspaper, but I don't resent the fact that it's there. Same for celebrity culture, couldn't give a monkeys. But I want access to the news, business insights and politics and I'm happy to pay for them.

YellowBucket · 12-07-2020 1:23pm

@MrMusician18: To be fair, the current US president is no Republican either. I’m not sure anyone knows what he represents, but it certainly isn’t the supposed values of the party whose ticket he’s riding upon.

James Brown · 12-07-2020 1:27pm

Everyone on the street was talking about how corrupt Haughey was. It was common knowledge. It came out many years after the damage was done.
There was whispers about Bertie and numerous others.
I expect many revelations about Michael Noonan in a few years as something smells rotten about Sitserv and his 'inappropriate behaviour'.

The point, for a number of reasons our journalist's have been severely lacking for the longest time.

MrMusician18 · 12-07-2020 1:29pm

YellowBucket wrote: »

To be fair, the current US president is no Republican either.

I'm not referring to Trump, where derision is justified, but Romney would probably have made a fine US president as would've McCain. There was no way an Irish media outlet world ever say that though.

As for the papers blaming cuts to advertising for the lack of quality now - well when they had buckets of money during the boom they weren't any good either.

It's been a slow steady decline since the late 90's.

The decline of Irish journalism

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