What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

jmreire · 08-07-2020 10:49pm

Stateofyou wrote: »

Well, we were. And still are.

If the Irish are emigrating now ( pre-covid ) its by choice,,,back in the 80' 90's and again after the 2008 banking crash, it was because they had no other choice.. no work, high unemployment levels..and that's the difference. But I doubt very much that we will have that option this time round...Covid-19's effect are world wide, and we are just at the beginning of it.,

08-07-2020 11:38pm

Stateofyou wrote: »

Well, we were. And still are.

The historical aspects of Irish migration has been done earlier in the thread, so I'm not bothered to write it all again. If people wanted to accept the difference between modern day migration and then, it would be enough.

However, Irish still are migrating to other countries. That's certainly true. I've lived the last 13 years abroad, living in four countries, and done contract work in a variety of others.

The difference between us and the majority of migrants coming here is education, and financial support.

Rarely will an Irish person migrate to another country without the funds to support themselves for an extended period of time. In addition to this, they usually have options to draw upon at home (savings, family, etc) should they go through their operational budget. This is one of the advantages of coming from a 1st world nation. There are financial options to support your move to another country if it's done with even a little foresight.

The secondary and possibly more important difference is education. Irish education gets a lot of criticism within Ireland, but internationally it's ranked pretty high in terms of quality. Even for those who don't get into University, the secondary school education is of a reasonably high standard. However, a rather high percentage of Irish people do complete even a basic level of 3rd level education before migrating, which again is of a reasonably high standard.

Compare that with migrants coming from 3rd world countries. Secondary schools are usually extremely underfunded and understaffed. Quality and scope of teaching practices vary widely. The better schools tend to be religious schools, which tend towards more "traditional" subjects and teaching practices. In many cases, modernization is frowned upon. It's often worse again at university levels with corruption being rampant, grades being fixed due to bribes, and cheating in exams is common. The actual quality of a university degree from many non-western countries extremely low.

For example. I went to Athlone IT. Not a university, and my Bachelor in Business & Finance, was decent but nothing special. All the same, it would be of a higher general quality than most non-top level institutions in 3rd world nations. My MBA is from the University of Queensland. My Bachelor in Abnormal Psychology is also from there. My teaching certificate is from Ireland.

Most Irish people migrating to other nations come without expecting any handouts. They have prepared in advance getting jobs which are likely connected to their visas, having the funds to support themselves, and the educational backgrounds to find alternative work should that fall through.

Whereas most modern migrants from 3rd world nations (apart from highly specialised contractors) aren't that well prepared, nor do they have the educational backgrounds to compete effectively with Irish people for employment.

Making the statement that Irish people migrate so that makes it fine for migrants to come here, ignores the practicalities of life.

In every country I've worked in, there were no safety nets. There wasn't any welfare or governmental grants to support me while I got myself ready to work. If I failed to retain my employment, or ran out of money, I was screwed... and I would have needed to leave immediately thereafter. And that is why the comparison about migration is so ignorant. I genuinely feel that those who advocate about multiculturalism fail to grasp that very few countries outside of Europe are friendly/helpful about migration which doesn't provide definite benefits to them. Irish people migrating bring benefits to the countries they're heading to. A guy who was a farmer in Ethiopia, who arrives in Ireland, doesn't provide any direct benefit... even more importantly there's no immediate benefit, and often a real loss, due to the time in DP, or the need for support while they become educated, or even learn English....

09-07-2020 12:01am

Oh, just to add one more thing, which is less obvious.

Health. Due to 1st world living, Irish people migrating will generally be of good health. They're likely to have most of their original teeth, less internal issues, stronger bones, etc.

Migrants from other countries are more likely to suffer lingering effects from malnutrition, or the after effects of diseases which might have been cured but left damage within the body. In many countries, it's common for people to have lost all their natural teeth before they reach adulthood.

That is a major expense over time to a country. The health of a person while they are living there. In most countries outside of Europe, the only option for healthcare is private (which can be quite expensive), with state healthcare being simply awful. Irish people migrating will be in a higher standard of general health and so be less of a drain on the new country's economy. It's something worth considering. (In addition to financing, and education)

I'm sure we can find some other reasons why the comparison makes little sense.

MFPM · 09-07-2020 8:20am

Deleted User wrote: »

The historical aspects of Irish migration has been done earlier in the thread, so I'm not bothered to write it all again. If people wanted to accept the difference between modern day migration and then, it would be enough.

However, Irish still are migrating to other countries. That's certainly true. I've lived the last 13 years abroad, living in four countries, and done contract work in a variety of others.

The difference between us and the majority of migrants coming here is education, and financial support.

Rarely will an Irish person migrate to another country without the funds to support themselves for an extended period of time. In addition to this, they usually have options to draw upon at home (savings, family, etc) should they go through their operational budget. This is one of the advantages of coming from a 1st world nation. There are financial options to support your move to another country if it's done with even a little foresight.

The secondary and possibly more important difference is education. Irish education gets a lot of criticism within Ireland, but internationally it's ranked pretty high in terms of quality. Even for those who don't get into University, the secondary school education is of a reasonably high standard. However, a rather high percentage of Irish people do complete even a basic level of 3rd level education before migrating, which again is of a reasonably high standard.

Compare that with migrants coming from 3rd world countries. Secondary schools are usually extremely underfunded and understaffed. Quality and scope of teaching practices vary widely. The better schools tend to be religious schools, which tend towards more "traditional" subjects and teaching practices. In many cases, modernization is frowned upon. It's often worse again at university levels with corruption being rampant, grades being fixed due to bribes, and cheating in exams is common. The actual quality of a university degree from many non-western countries extremely low.

For example. I went to Athlone IT. Not a university, and my Bachelor in Business & Finance, was decent but nothing special. All the same, it would be of a higher general quality than most non-top level institutions in 3rd world nations. My MBA is from the University of Queensland. My Bachelor in Abnormal Psychology is also from there. My teaching certificate is from Ireland.

Most Irish people migrating to other nations come without expecting any handouts. They have prepared in advance getting jobs which are likely connected to their visas, having the funds to support themselves, and the educational backgrounds to find alternative work should that fall through.

Whereas most modern migrants from 3rd world nations (apart from highly specialised contractors) aren't that well prepared, nor do they have the educational backgrounds to compete effectively with Irish people for employment.

Making the statement that Irish people migrate so that makes it fine for migrants to come here, ignores the practicalities of life.

In every country I've worked in, there were no safety nets. There wasn't any welfare or governmental grants to support me while I got myself ready to work. If I failed to retain my employment, or ran out of money, I was screwed... and I would have needed to leave immediately thereafter. And that is why the comparison about migration is so ignorant. I genuinely feel that those who advocate about multiculturalism fail to grasp that very few countries outside of Europe are friendly/helpful about migration which doesn't provide definite benefits to them. Irish people migrating bring benefits to the countries they're heading to. A guy who was a farmer in Ethiopia, who arrives in Ireland, doesn't provide any direct benefit... even more importantly there's no immediate benefit, and often a real loss, due to the time in DP, or the need for support while they become educated, or even learn English....

Apart from the points you make about yourself the remainder post is full of your opinion but unfortunately there is little if any specific evidence to back many of your claims, it's full of sweeping generalisations and lacks any nunace or balance. Perhaps the sentence below sums up my point - you make a general point about 'us' i.e all Irish migrants went abroad with money and were highly educated etc, of course anyone who knows anything about Irish migration would know that's a misleading statement yet you then do exactly the opposite when discussing inward migration!!

The difference between us and the majority of migrants coming here is education, and financial support.

I note you're an economic migrant (pulling on jobs and other resources of the countries in which you live) - I do find it interesting how many people like you populate discussions like this, the lack of self awareness is amusing to a point.

MFPM · 09-07-2020 8:22am

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh, just to add one more thing, which is less obvious.

Health. Due to 1st world living, Irish people migrating will generally be of good health. They're likely to have most of their original teeth, less internal issues, stronger bones, etc.

Migrants from other countries are more likely to suffer lingering effects from malnutrition, or the after effects of diseases which might have been cured but left damage within the body. In many countries, it's common for people to have lost all their natural teeth before they reach adulthood.

That is a major expense over time to a country. The health of a person while they are living there. In most countries outside of Europe, the only option for healthcare is private (which can be quite expensive), with state healthcare being simply awful. Irish people migrating will be in a higher standard of general health and so be less of a drain on the new country's economy. It's something worth considering. (In addition to financing, and education)

I'm sure we can find some other reasons why the comparison makes little sense.

Hopefully the other reasons will be accompanied by factual argument and evidence not subjective opinion.

09-07-2020 8:40am

MFPM wrote: »

I note you're an economic migrant (pulling on jobs and other resources of the countries in which you live) - I do find it interesting how many people like you populate discussions like this, the lack of self awareness is amusing to a point.

Whereas I notice there's a variety of posters like yourself who are interested in popping in to dismiss opinions (based on whatever) but not actually contributing to the discussion themselves. Lack of self awareness? Hilarious. And ultimately a rubbish comment based on what I wrote.

You really expect me to research a wide variety of links online just so you can dismiss it all with a flick of your finger? nah. I got wise to that kind of thing months ago.

Why should I engage with you when you have provided nothing to show you're capable of discussing anything in good faith?

hopefully the other reasons will be accompanied by factual argument and evidence not subjective opinion.

Ahh well, here's a shocker. It's a discussion board, and people will voice their opinions. I notice you're not actually disputing my post, or providing any evidence yourself one way or another. :rolleyes:

MFPM · 09-07-2020 9:47am

Deleted User wrote: »

Whereas I notice there's a variety of posters like yourself who are interested in popping in to dismiss opinions (based on whatever) but not actually contributing to the discussion themselves. Lack of self awareness? Hilarious. And ultimately a rubbish comment based on what I wrote.

You really expect me to research a wide variety of links online just so you can dismiss it all with a flick of your finger? nah. I got wise to that kind of thing months ago.

Why should I engage with you when you have provided nothing to show you're capable of discussing anything in good faith?

Ahh well, here's a shocker. It's a discussion board, and people will voice their opinions. I notice you're not actually disputing my post, or providing any evidence yourself one way or another. :rolleyes:

A response yet still lacking any substantive points supported by evidence although the post does offer further evidence of your lack of self awareness.

Whereas I notice there's a variety of posters like yourself who are interested in popping in to dismiss opinions (based on whatever) but not actually contributing to the discussion themselves.

I dip in and out of discussions that interest me on a range of sites, sometimes I have more time than others, I don't allow it consume me. If you observed my pattern you'd not I do actually contribute to discussions but it's convenient for you to ignore that.

Lack of self awareness? Hilarious. And ultimately a rubbish comment based on what I wrote.

It's not rubbish but you know that.

You really expect me to research a wide variety of links online just so you can dismiss it all with a flick of your finger? nah. I got wise to that kind of thing months ago.

Yes, shock horror, I expect you to supply some evidence to support your argument - it's standard practice in discussion and debate and it's how we interrogate people's positions and opinions.

I notice you're not actually disputing my post, or providing any evidence yourself one way or another.

I did dispute your point, go back and read my response - I'm happy to provide evidence but I'm waiting for you to make an argument first and not treat us to your subjective 'opinion'.

Why should I engage with you when you have provided nothing to show you're capable of discussing anything in good faith?

You don't have to engage with me but fact and evidence based opinion would help me and others take you serious.

Wibbs · 09-07-2020 9:58am

MFPM wrote: »

I note you're an economic migrant (pulling on jobs and other resources of the countries in which you live) - I do find it interesting how many people like you populate discussions like this, the lack of self awareness is amusing to a point.

He's an economic migrant who entered other countries legally and with the resources and skills required to enter said countries legally, or he wouldn't have been allowed to and would be asked to leave the moment he didn't have those resources and skills. That's the difference. I have zero problem with anybody coming to this country with those criteria in place, or genuine refugees.

The problem is that the first groups of economic migrants that came to this country during the boom didn't fulfil at least one of those criteria. To the degree that the vast majority of those same groups are refused at point of entry today.

09-07-2020 10:01am

MFPM wrote: »

A response yet still lacking any substantive points supported by evidence although the post does offer further evidence of your lack of self awareness.

You keep saying my lack of self awareness.... but honestly, I have no clue as to what you're referring to.

I dip in and out of discussions that interest me on a range of sites, sometimes I have more time than others, I don't allow it consume me. If you observed my pattern you'd not I do actually contribute to discussions but it's convenient for you to ignore that.

Ignore what? I don't recognise your name on boards. I recognise many regular posters who contribute to threads because they offer their opinions and/or evidence... but even without backing up their statements with evidence (regardless of whether I agree or not), I can generally respect their contributions. Why? because they're making an effort to participate.

By your own admission, you're a butterfly. Jumping in to cast your judgement but not sticking around enough to really contribute.

It's not rubbish but you know that.

If I knew that, then I'd be more self-aware, wouldn't i?

Yes, shock horror, I expect you to supply some evidence to support your argument - it's standard practice in discussion and debate and it's how we interrogate people's positions and opinions.

Interrogate. Interesting phrase to use. Not discuss. Not engage. Interrogate. Yup. I already got that feeling from the manner of your intervention.

I did dispute your point, go back and read my response - I'm happy to provide evidence but I'm waiting for you to make an argument first and not treat us to your subjective 'opinion'.

You judged, and dismissed it. That's all. You haven't provided anything to suggest that I should take you seriously, considering your lack of involvement in this thread.

What? You jump in, and throw around an opinion, along with a flippant dismissal of my opinion... and I should take you seriously? What makes you different from the dozens of trollish characters who lurk around boards?

You don't have to engage with me but fact and evidence based opinion would help me and others take you serious.

Ahh well... here's the thing. I've been posting here a long time, and most people are aware of my posting history. I'm consistent in my views. I also have really long posts/threads behind me, where I did back up views with extensive links and such. It's called a reputation and many here recognise my reputation.... and I'm comfortable with the remainder taking it or leaving it.

You, on the other hand.... Dum di dum di do.

MFPM · 09-07-2020 10:43am

Wibbs wrote: »

He's an economic migrant who entered other countries legally and with the resources and skills required to enter said countries legally, or he wouldn't have been allowed to and would be asked to leave the moment he didn't have those resources and skills. That's the difference. I have zero problem with anybody coming to this country with those criteria in place, or genuine refugees.

The problem is that the first groups of economic migrants that came to this country during the boom didn't fulfil at least one of those criteria. To the degree that the vast majority of those same groups are refused at point of entry today.

He's an economic migrant who entered other countries legally and with the resources and skills required to enter said countries legally, or he wouldn't have been allowed to and would be asked to leave the moment he didn't have those resources and skills. That's the difference. I have zero problem with anybody coming to this country with those criteria in place, or genuine refugees.

Yes, we can assume all you state is accurate, I made no issue about it but emphasised that he is an economic migrant, many of the anti-migrant brigade aim their ire at economic inward migration.

The problem is that the first groups of economic migrants that came to this country during the boom didn't fulfil at least one of those criteria.

What groups are you talking about? Nigerians, Poles, Romanians, Latvians?

To the degree that the vast majority of those same groups are refused at point of entry today.

Again who are you discussing here, are you talking about migrants/asylum seekers/refugees?

MFPM · 09-07-2020 10:58am

Deleted User wrote: »

You keep saying my lack of self awareness.... but honestly, I have no clue as to what you're referring to.

Ignore what? I don't recognise your name on boards. I recognise many regular posters who contribute to threads because they offer their opinions and/or evidence... but even without backing up their statements with evidence (regardless of whether I agree or not), I can generally respect their contributions. Why? because they're making an effort to participate.

By your own admission, you're a butterfly. Jumping in to cast your judgement but not sticking around enough to really contribute.

If I knew that, then I'd be more self-aware, wouldn't i?

Interrogate. Interesting phrase to use. Not discuss. Not engage. Interrogate. Yup. I already got that feeling from the manner of your intervention.

You judged, and dismissed it. That's all. You haven't provided anything to suggest that I should take you seriously, considering your lack of involvement in this thread.

What? You jump in, and throw around an opinion, along with a flippant dismissal of my opinion... and I should take you seriously? What makes you different from the dozens of trollish characters who lurk around boards?

Ahh well... here's the thing. I've been posting here a long time, and most people are aware of my posting history. I'm consistent in my views. I also have really long posts/threads behind me, where I did back up views with extensive links and such. It's called a reputation and many here recognise my reputation.... and I'm comfortable with the remainder taking it or leaving it.

You, on the other hand.... Dum di dum di do.

honestly, I have no clue as to what you're referring to.

You're an economic migrant!

Ignore what? I don't recognise your name on boards. I recognise many regular posters who contribute to threads because they offer their opinions and/or evidence... but even without backing up their statements with evidence (regardless of whether I agree or not), I can generally respect their contributions. Why? because they're making an effort to participate.

Stop being disingenuous. I can have an opinion that Barry Cowen should resign as Minister for Agriclutre because he has a drink driving conviction and is not fit for office - that's an opinion, it doesn't need 'evidence' as such.

Cliamte Change is a hoax, made up by deluded scientists - that's an opinion but it carries no weight without evidence

You get the difference? :rolleyes:

By your own admission, you're a butterfly. Jumping in to cast your judgement but not sticking around enough to really contribute.

That's not what I posted, you're simply engaging in deflection.

Interrogate. Interesting phrase to use. Not discuss. Not engage. Interrogate. Yup. I already got that feeling from the manner of your intervention.

I stated discussion and debate but yes 'interrogate' is in important aspect of debate and discussion particularly when a poster is making sweeping generalised statements about people.

You judged, and dismissed it.

Remind me what you're doing in this reply?

You haven't provided anything to suggest that I should take you seriously, considering your lack of involvement in this thread.

So let me get this straight, you reply to people based on the length of time they've engaged on a thread?

What? You jump in, and throw around an opinion, along with a flippant dismissal of my opinion... and I should take you seriously?

I asked you to substantiate your opinion and I'm asking again for the third time.

What makes you different from the dozens of trollish characters who lurk around boards?

Oh I don't know, maybe the fact that I simply asked you to provide evidence to back your opinion, how is that trolling?

I've been posting here a long time, and most people are aware of my posting history.

Well done! You seem to be suggesting that this is a hierarchical site, I wasn't aware of that? I've been here for about 9 years but I post intermittently, as far as I'm aware there's no issue with that unless of course you're a poster trying to deflect.

I'm consistent in my views.

As am I.

I also have really long posts/threads behind me, where I did back up views with extensive links and such.

So what made you change your approach this time?

It's called a reputation and many here recognise my reputation.

Well done, I'm delighted for you but it's hardly relevant to you NOT providing evidence while posting sweeping generalisations?

09-07-2020 11:14am

MFPM wrote: »

You're an economic migrant!

Yes? And?

I get the feeling that you haven't been following the thread discussion, and just decided to jump in for the last two pages. We've talked extensively throughout the thread about many types of migration, and my post was a continuance of that past discussion.

Stop being disingenuous.

Can I ask you to stop seeking to derail this thread?

That's not what I posted, you're simply engaging in deflection.

So far in this thread, you have deflected the topic away from multiculturalism for two different posters towards arguing semantics. So...

I stated discussion and debate but yes 'interrogate' is in important aspect of debate and discussion particularly when a poster is making sweeping generalised statements about people.

As opposed to actually reading past material, getting a sense for what the regular posters to the thread are discussing, and taking that into consideration when looking at generalisations?

Remind me what you're doing in this reply?

Responding to you, and trying to give you the tiniest benefit of the doubt, that you're capable of engaging in a discussion (related to the topic at hand). And yes, I'm fast losing that belief.

So let me get this straight, you reply to people based on the length of time they've engaged on a thread?

Nope. You got it anything but straight.

I asked you to substantiate your opinion and I'm asking again for the third time.

No, you dismissed the post and then asked for evidence. And I'm asking that you contribute to the thread before I bend over backwards providing supporting information before you fly on to another thread.

Enough with the multi-quoting, and answering your individual points, because it's meaningless. You have zero credibility with me with regards to this thread. All you've done so far is dismiss the opinions of two posters without contributing anything yourself. So... no. And I'm not following you further down this rabbit hole.

You can argue my points and introduce evidence to show that I'm wrong in my opinions, and I'll respond likewise. Or you can continue with this BS you're doing. Your choice. However, I won't be responding further until you actually join the discussion at hand. ie. multiculturalism..

Wibbs · 09-07-2020 11:33am

MFPM wrote: »

Yes, we can assume all you state is accurate, I made no issue about it but emphasised that he is an economic migrant, many of the anti-migrant brigade aim their ire at economic inward migration.

What groups are you talking about? Nigerians, Poles, Romanians, Latvians?

Again who are you discussing here, are you talking about migrants/asylum seekers/refugees?

Romanians Georgians and Nigerians are the main ones refused today. Economic migrants all. At least the relevant departments consider them so and rejects nearly 100% of them.

DelaneyIn · 09-07-2020 12:15pm

In the French local elections Abdelaziz Hamida has been elected mayor of Goussainville, a very multicultural suburb of 30,000 people in North Paris. He is on the terrorism watch list.

Why anyone would follow the French and the rest of Western Europe down this multicultural experiment rabbit hole is beyond my comprehension.

It’s insanity.

MFPM · 09-07-2020 12:17pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Romanians Georgians and Nigerians are the main ones refused today. Economic migrants all. At least the relevant departments consider them so and rejects nearly 100% of them.

Yes, the departments set the bar very high, somewhat ironic given migration from this country has been overwhelmingly 'economic'.

MFPM · 09-07-2020 12:19pm

DelaneyIn wrote: »

In the French local elections Abdelaziz Hamida has been elected mayor of Goussainville, a very multicultural suburb of 30,000 people in North Paris. He is on the terrorism watch list.

Why anyone would follow the French and the rest of Western Europe down this multicultural experiment rabbit hole is beyond my comprehension.

It’s insanity.

Are there not people who have been convicted of terrorist offences in our Dail?

Why anyone would follow the French and the rest of Western Europe down this multicultural experiment rabbit hole is beyond my comprehension.

What 'multicultural experiment'? Are you suggesting we should live in mono cultural societies?

DelaneyIn · 09-07-2020 12:21pm

I’m suggesting that multiculturalism is a failed ideology. Do you disagree?

Where has it worked?

TheCitizen · 09-07-2020 12:24pm

https://news.sky.com/video/history-is-written-by-the-people-who-do-the-harm-cricket-commentators-view-of-white-privilege-12024274

Michael Holding West Indies cricketer spoke about the issue of racism very well in this clip from SKY. Some of the commentary on this site exemplified by this thread is nothing short of a disgrace.

MFPM · 09-07-2020 12:26pm

DelaneyIn wrote: »

I’m suggesting that multiculturalism is a failed ideology. Do you disagree?

Where has it worked?

Mulitculturalism isn't an ideology and it certainly hasn't failed, are the problems in many cities, yes but there a multitude of factors that contribute to those problems - culture/economics/poverty/social inequality etc.

Where has it worked?

There are a multitude of places where people of different cultural backgrounds and ethnicity live side by side, indeed Dublin is a good example.

DelaneyIn · 09-07-2020 12:28pm

Why are all these non Europeans moving to Europe if we are such a racist and backward thinking people?

Are they sadomasochists or something? It’s getting tiresome to listen to foreigners smear the native people whilst they live in our countries.

If we were half as bad as they claim, we simply wouldn’t have let them or their parents in.

DelaneyIn · 09-07-2020 12:30pm

MFPM wrote: »

Mulitculturalism isn't an ideology and it certainly hasn't failed, are the problems in many cities, yes but there a multitude of factors that contribute to those problems - culture/economics/poverty/social inequality etc.

There are a multitude of places where people of different cultural backgrounds and ethnicity live side by side, indeed Dublin is a good example.

Even Frau Merkel has admitted that it has failed. Where in Dublin has multiculturalism worked?

MFPM · 09-07-2020 12:30pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes? And?

I get the feeling that you haven't been following the thread discussion, and just decided to jump in for the last two pages. We've talked extensively throughout the thread about many types of migration, and my post was a continuance of that past discussion.

Can I ask you to stop seeking to derail this thread?

So far in this thread, you have deflected the topic away from multiculturalism for two different posters towards arguing semantics. So...

As opposed to actually reading past material, getting a sense for what the regular posters to the thread are discussing, and taking that into consideration when looking at generalisations?

Responding to you, and trying to give you the tiniest benefit of the doubt, that you're capable of engaging in a discussion (related to the topic at hand). And yes, I'm fast losing that belief.

Nope. You got it anything but straight.

No, you dismissed the post and then asked for evidence. And I'm asking that you contribute to the thread before I bend over backwards providing supporting information before you fly on to another thread.

Enough with the multi-quoting, and answering your individual points, because it's meaningless. You have zero credibility with me with regards to this thread. All you've done so far is dismiss the opinions of two posters without contributing anything yourself. So... no. And I'm not following you further down this rabbit hole.

You can argue my points and introduce evidence to show that I'm wrong in my opinions, and I'll respond likewise. Or you can continue with this BS you're doing. Your choice. However, I won't be responding further until you actually join the discussion at hand. ie. multiculturalism..

Still no evidence of your sweeping generalised statements just more deflection. I couldn't care less about my 'credibility' with you, i n fcat you should be more focused on your own credibility.

Now perhaps you could do the discussion a service and go back to your post and substantiate some of your 'opinions' with some hard facts.

MFPM · 09-07-2020 12:35pm

DelaneyIn wrote: »

Even Frau Merkel has admitted that it has failed. Where in Dublin has multiculturalism worked?

How has it failed, how do you measure it's failure, who do you blame for that failure and are you suggesting that we should have mono-cultural societies.

Where in Dublin has multiculturalism worked?

There is a large population of 'new irish' 'non Irish national' or whatever label you choose living across Dublin City and suburbs, people mix in schools/communities/workplaces.

TheCitizen · 09-07-2020 12:43pm

MFPM wrote: »

How has it failed, how do you measure it's failure, who do you blame for that failure and are you suggesting that we should have mono-cultural societies.

There is a large population of 'new irish' 'non Irish national' or whatever label you choose living across Dublin City and suburbs, people mix in schools/communities/workplaces.

Shocking bullshít peddled on this website on a daily basis. “The multiculturalism project has failed etc.” A shower of racists and blithering idiots making pronouncements about stuff they haven’t a clue about.

DelaneyIn · 09-07-2020 12:53pm

The German chancellor, Angela Merkel, has courted growing anti-immigrant opinion in Germany by claiming the country's attempts to create a multicultural society have "utterly failed".

Speaking to a meeting of young members of her Christian Democratic Union party, Merkel said the idea of people from different cultural backgrounds living happily "side by side" did not work.

She said the onus was on immigrants to do more to integrate into German society.

"This [multicultural] approach has failed, utterly failed," Merkel told the meeting in Potsdam, west of Berlin, yesterday.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/oct/17/angela-merkel-german-multiculturalism-failed

Yes, Merkel is such a racist.

Slowyourrole · 09-07-2020 12:56pm

olestoepoke wrote: »

No war in Nigeria, Pakistan, Bangladesh and many more.

would you live in any of those places? Would you happy with the rights you had if you did?

DelaneyIn · 09-07-2020 12:59pm

Slowyourrole wrote: »

would you live in any of those places? Would you happy with the rights you had if you did?

Should we allow anyone and everyone from those places and who wishes to live here to do so?

Being from a dump isn’t grounds for asylum.

dominatinMC · 09-07-2020 1:03pm

TheCitizen wrote: »

Shocking bullshít peddled on this website on a daily basis. “The multiculturalism project has failed etc.” A shower of racists and blithering idiots making pronouncements about stuff they haven’t a clue about.

As opposed to this sweeping generalisation? I hope you can at least see the irony. Just because some people/posters don't think as you do, doesn't make them racists. Therein lies one of the biggest misconceptions perpetrated in the media these days - that anyone with even a semblance of dissatisfaction with immigration is a racist. That word is bandied about so much these days, it's starting to loose meaning

TheCitizen · 09-07-2020 1:21pm

dominatinMC wrote: »

As opposed to this sweeping generalisation? I hope you can at least see the irony. Just because some people/posters don't think as you do, doesn't make them racists. Therein lies one of the biggest misconceptions perpetrated in the media these days - that anyone with even a semblance of dissatisfaction with immigration is a racist. That word is bandied about so much these days, it's starting to loose meaning

It’s not about people having different opinions or about concerns with direct provision centres etc., I’m talking about a cohort that make broad statements like; “the multiculturalism project has failed etc.” On this site that sort of statement is regularly made, it’s backed by nothing bar ignorance and racism.

Kaybaykwah · 09-07-2020 1:33pm

DelaneyIn wrote: »

Why are all these non Europeans moving to Europe if we are such a racist and backward thinking people?

Are they sadomasochists or something? It’s getting tiresome to listen to foreigners smear the native people whilst they live in our countries.

If we were half as bad as they claim, we simply wouldn’t have let them or their parents in.

If it were up to you, none of them would come in, though. They have to rely on more open hearted people higher up to do so.

Think of it this way, you had waves of Irish missionaries to places that didn't ask for advice on religion, and nobody bats an eyelash at that.

At a time when Ireland has enriched, has created more opportunities and indeed profited from EU funding on the one hand, and vast investments from tech giants abroad, it is an OK time to open up... Juts hide your daughters in the basement.

What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

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