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General Election and Government Formation Megathread (see post #1)

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    #5732
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,398 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    devnull wrote: »
    It's hardly news though really, this is what FF have always been like, the trouble is that the Irish electorate in general have short memories, if they didn't have short memories, after what FF stood for last time, they would not have voted for them. But people just forget these things and wonder why it turns out so bad.

    All of those complaining have been part of the party in power under Ahern and Cowen and have shown that despite the years of being in opposition, they have not changed one little iota and that self interest is far more important than anything else just like it was back then.

    If FF was serious about change, it would have kicked the likes of these three out long ago. But instead the moment they get back into Government they are up to their usual tricks and the sad thing is that many people in this country were gullible enough to believe they had changed.
    Likely that O'Dea and Moynihan are having a hard time coming to terms with the fact that as far as their career goes their goose is cooked.


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    #5733
    Topgear on Dave
    Registered Users Posts: 4,528 ✭✭✭Topgear on Dave


    +1 Old boyos like O'Dea should have been pushed politely sideways years ago.


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    #5734
    Outkast_IRE
    Registered Users Posts: 7,515 ✭✭✭Outkast_IRE


    Topgear on Dave wrote: »
    +1 Old boyos like O'Dea should have been pushed politely sideways years ago.

    You would wonder why they keep at it, take the easy money and offer to retire if they sort you out with something cushy.


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    #5735
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,461 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    I just checked Willie o deas Wikipedia page and it says he's been a TD since 1982. He's been a minister of state four times, and a senior minister once in the department of defense. So I mean he's had a good run and I'm sure he'll get a nice pension out of his political career yet he's giving out still. He's also 67 years old.


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    #5736
    Topgear on Dave
    Registered Users Posts: 4,528 ✭✭✭Topgear on Dave


    TDs are a different breed. You have to enjoy the arguments, hassle, flesh pressing, power winning and power losing non stop nature of it.


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    #5737
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,187 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    i wouldnt be able to do it

    That why I always vote

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #5738
    guyfawkes5
    Registered Users Posts: 291 ✭✭guyfawkes5


    Topgear on Dave wrote: »
    TDs are a different breed. You have to enjoy the arguments, hassle, flesh pressing, power winning and power losing non stop nature of it.
    Maybe so, but there's definitely an edge there now because the broader public has been through so much lately and now this squabbling over promotions barely dressed up as 'it's an insult to my constituents'. It feels very selfish and feudal.

    I would've thought FF TDs especially would be wiser to how this must look.


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    #5739
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    seamus wrote: »
    Complete disregard not only for social distancing, but also for the health advice in terms of gatherings, funerals in particular.

    .

    I agree, ill advised to attend.

    However, given the large attendance at Garda Horken's funeral- and the man absolutely deserved a State funeral - where there was a notable lack of social distancing it's just a bit.... to complain about one funeral when the same thing happened at another funeral.
    Looks a lot like the crowd and lack of social distancing isn't really people's problem.


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    #5740
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,797 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    While by no means a car crash, MLMD's interview on Newstalk this morning suffered very badly from the When You're Explaining, You're Losing issue. Very poor performance.

    That said, Arlene Foster is in no position to ask MON to step aside!


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    #5741
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,187 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    I agree, ill advised to attend.

    However, given the large attendance at Garda Harken's funeral- and the man absolutely deserved a State funeral - where there was a notable lack of social distancing it's just a bit.... to complain about one funeral when the same thing happened at another funeral.
    Looks a lot like the crowd and lack of social distancing isn't really people's problem.

    Government politicians did not attend the funeral. Those involved in carrying out the state funeral I imagine did what was legally required. The Gardai made an appeal for officers to attend local stations to pay respect. However Gardai in a private capacity may have disobeyed the request as maybe did other private individuals.

    There is also the factor that Garda Harken was murdered in the line of his duty. Mr Storry died of natural causes. This is another case of SF thinking the rules not applying to them.

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #5742
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 13,954 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    I agree, ill advised to attend.

    However, given the large attendance at Garda Harken's funeral- and the man absolutely deserved a State funeral - where there was a notable lack of social distancing it's just a bit.... to complain about one funeral when the same thing happened at another funeral.
    Looks a lot like the crowd and lack of social distancing isn't really people's problem.

    You would have a point if all cabinet and a cohort of FG TD's from all across the country arrived in Charlestown, Roscommon.
    However, we all know they didn't and paid their respects another way.

    However, in SF's case, we had TD's from the length and breadth of the country all leave their counties (some as far as Cork) and arrive in Belfast for a funeral where there was very little social distancing and people more interested in taking selfies.

    No one has yet to explain to me, why a SF TD from Cork had to travel to Belfast to attend a funeral, as 'essential travel'.


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    #5743
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,561 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Bass Reeves wrote:
    How many more parties do you want. We have FG, FF, SF, Greens Lab, SD,'s PBP, Solidarity, Aontu, Ind FF, Healy Rae's
    One good one.


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    #5744
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    Government politicians did not attend the funeral. Those involved in carrying out the state funeral I imagine did what was legally required. The Gardai made an appeal for officers to attend local stations to pay respect. However Gardai in a private capacity may have disobeyed the request as maybe did other private individuals.

    There is also the factor that Garda Horken was murdered in the line of his duty. Mr Storry died of natural causes. This is another case of SF thinking the rules not applying to them.

    Charlie Flanagan who at the time was still Minister for Justice was there.

    This 'it's different' is exactly what I am talking about, there is a clear lack of social distancing at Garda Horken's funeral.
    Going to a large funeral is the point being used to jab at SF - the Irish State held a large funeral for a Garda who was killed on duty. There was a large uniformed Garda presence including the Commissioner and high ranking officers. Where are the calls for Drew Harris to stand down? He was present as social distance rules were being broken.

    There was also a large civilian and press presence.

    The photos of both funerals are available on-line so that is all I can go by - indeed that is all most of us can go by unless we were physically present. https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0621/1148696-garda-funeral/
    https://www.thejournal.ie/detective-garda-colm-horkan-funeral-2-5128699-Jun2020/
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/in-pictures-the-funeral-of-det-gda-colm-horkan-1.4284818
    https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/gallery/garda-colm-horkan-funeral-22229438
    https://cdn.extra.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/21121855/colm-horkan-funeral-1.jpg

    There are many many reasons to criticise SF but to pick this when the Garda Siochana were part of in a large funeral with no social distancing strikes me as disingenuous and very much different rules apply.


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    #5745
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    markodaly wrote: »
    You would have a point if all cabinet and a cohort of FG TD's from all across the country arrived in Charlestown, Roscommon.
    However, we all know they didn't and paid their respects another way.

    However, in SF's case, we had TD's from the length and breadth of the country all leave their counties (some as far as Cork) and arrive in Belfast for a funeral where there was very little social distancing and people more interested in taking selfies.

    No one has yet to explain to me, why a SF TD from Cork had to travel to Belfast to attend a funeral, as 'essential travel'.

    I see you ignored where I said it was ill advised.


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    #5746
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,561 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Topgear on Dave wrote:
    +1 Old boyos like O'Dea should have been pushed politely sideways years ago.
    There's only eight years between Martin and O'Dea.


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    #5747
    For Forks Sake
    Registered Users Posts: 11,484 ✭✭✭✭For Forks Sake


    They seem to have created a new form of politician in Kerry, the Foley-Rae :rolleyes:

    Not a week in the job and her first act is to throw money at a local school, and boast about it on Twitter.

    https://twitter.com/NormaFoleyTD1/status/1278969553205309440

    Like the least she could do would be subtle and announce a list of schools all over the country receiving funding, and the local one just happen to be on the list.


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    #5748
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    For Forks Sake wrote: »

    Like the least she could do would be subtle and announce a list of schools all over the country receiving funding, and the local one just happen to be on the list.

    Like O'Reilly tried with Primary Health Care Centres. :p


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    #5749
    Hermy
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,312 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    Nothing at all in the North East either.

    Honestly, do people still get hung up on geographic spread of ministries in 2020? Should it not be about merit and ability rather than whether you eat blaas or farls.

    As you said in a previous comment it really shouldn't matter but...
    For Forks Sake wrote: »
    They seem to have created a new form of politician in Kerry, the Foley-Rae :rolleyes:

    Not a week in the job and her first act is to throw money at a local school, and boast about it on Twitter.

    https://twitter.com/NormaFoleyTD1/status/1278969553205309440

    Like the least she could do would be subtle and announce a list of schools all over the country receiving funding, and the local one just happen to be on the list.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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    #5750
    il gatto
    Registered Users Posts: 3,021 ✭✭✭il gatto


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    Yes, but whether having an all-weather dome or a a reopened garda station in Stepaside make any difference at all to the long-term health, happiness, welfare, prosperity and success of the citizens of Mayo or Dublin South is open to question. Ministers distribute baubles like these and voters value them, but they would be fools to think that these are the decisions that matter.

    Those small examples are just that, small examples of the pork barrel politics that proliferates in Ireland. Chosen to show that it’s not perculiar to rural Ireland either.
    The allocating of infrastructural spending to a region, the enticement of foreign investment to an area, the quality and range of third level education in a region, promoting an area for tourism etc. are further examples of where not having the influence of a minister is really telling.


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    #5751
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    il gatto wrote: »
    Those small examples are just that, small examples of the pork barrel politics that proliferates in Ireland. Chosen to show that it’s not perculiar to rural Ireland either.
    The allocating of infrastructural spending to a region, the enticement of foreign investment to an area, the quality and range of third level education in a region, promoting an area for tourism etc. are further examples of where not having the influence of a minister is really telling.

    Cork being the exception. It would be fair to say Coveney did not bring a pork barrel near the place. There is much joking that having 3 ministers will mean the place will fall apart 3 times faster and much mumbling in the leafy suburbs of Cork SC that they haven't had a proper TD since Jack Lynch.


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    #5752
    Imreoir2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭Imreoir2


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Charlie Flanagan who at the time was still Minister for Justice was there.

    This 'it's different' is exactly what I am talking about, there is a clear lack of social distancing at Garda Horken's funeral.
    Going to a large funeral is the point being used to jab at SF - the Irish State held a large funeral for a Garda who was killed on duty. There was a large uniformed Garda presence including the Commissioner and high ranking officers. Where are the calls for Drew Harris to stand down? He was present as social distance rules were being broken.

    There was also a large civilian and press presence.

    The photos of both funerals are available on-line so that is all I can go by - indeed that is all most of us can go by unless we were physically present. https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0621/1148696-garda-funeral/
    https://www.thejournal.ie/detective-garda-colm-horkan-funeral-2-5128699-Jun2020/
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/in-pictures-the-funeral-of-det-gda-colm-horkan-1.4284818
    https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/gallery/garda-colm-horkan-funeral-22229438
    https://cdn.extra.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/21121855/colm-horkan-funeral-1.jpg

    There are many many reasons to criticise SF but to pick this when the Garda Siochana were part of in a large funeral with no social distancing strikes me as disingenuous and very much different rules apply.

    At least it was a funeral in Garda Horkan's case. SF just held a rally in a Graveyard and used a mans death as cover for it. There was no burial in the graveyard that day.


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    #5753
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Imreoir2 wrote: »
    At least it was a funeral in Garda Horkan's case. SF just held a rally in a Graveyard and used a mans death as cover for it. There was no burial in the graveyard that day.

    Again utterly missing the point I am making while trying to justify why one large gathering of not socially distanced people was acceprtable but another wasn't.

    I don't think either were during a pandemic when we were still under clear restrictions.

    I don't even think they are now tbh. I think they are a surge waiting to happen.


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    #5754
    Imreoir2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭Imreoir2


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Again utterly missing the point I am making while trying to justify why one large gathering of not socially distanced people was acceprtable but another wasn't.

    I don't think either were during a pandemic when we were still under clear restrictions.

    I don't even think they are now tbh. I think they are a surge waiting to happen.

    Sure, breaking public health guidelines is not acceptable. SF using a funeral to cover holding a political rally, and then trying to point to other breaches to excuse their own shows a huge lack of responsibility and integrity. Holding them to account should not be dependant on every other breach being addressed first.


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    #5755
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 18,923 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Hermy wrote: »
    As you said in a previous comment it really shouldn't matter but...

    Exactly. So all the rubbish spouted about not having a minister from Limerick to Donegal is only because they won't be able to eat from the trough.

    Between O'Dea, Moynihan, Cowen and this Foley nonsense, it's been quite an inauspicious week for FF. Keep it up lads.


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    #5756
    Hermy
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,312 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    Exactly. So all the rubbish spouted about not having a minister from Limerick to Donegal is only because they won't be able to eat from the trough.

    I take your point.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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    #5757
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,561 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    BonnieSituation wrote:
    Exactly. So all the rubbish spouted about not having a minister from Limerick to Donegal is only because they won't be able to eat from the trough.
    What does eat from the trough mean?


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    #5758
    beggars_bush
    Registered Users Posts: 4,361 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    eagle eye wrote: »
    What does eat from the trough mean?

    Ministers salary
    Expenses
    Funding for their constituency
    Pension


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    #5759
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,561 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    beggars_bush wrote:
    Ministers salary Expenses Funding for their constituency Pension
    Every politician wants that. Why would you be criticising particular TDs for wanting the big bucks?


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    #5760
    jacool
    Registered Users Posts: 3,799 ✭✭✭jacool


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    Exactly. So all the rubbish spouted about not having a minister from Limerick to Donegal is only because they won't be able to eat from the trough.

    Between O'Dea, Moynihan, Cowen and this Foley nonsense, it's been quite an inauspicious week for FF. Keep it up lads.
    Add in Kelleher and you have a nap hand there!


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    #5761
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,105 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Charlie Flanagan who at the time was still Minister for Justice was there.

    This 'it's different' is exactly what I am talking about, there is a clear lack of social distancing at Garda Horken's funeral.
    Going to a large funeral is the point being used to jab at SF - the Irish State held a large funeral for a Garda who was killed on duty. There was a large uniformed Garda presence including the Commissioner and high ranking officers. Where are the calls for Drew Harris to stand down? He was present as social distance rules were being broken.

    There was also a large civilian and press presence.

    The photos of both funerals are available on-line so that is all I can go by - indeed that is all most of us can go by unless we were physically present. https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0621/1148696-garda-funeral/
    https://www.thejournal.ie/detective-garda-colm-horkan-funeral-2-5128699-Jun2020/
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/in-pictures-the-funeral-of-det-gda-colm-horkan-1.4284818
    https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/gallery/garda-colm-horkan-funeral-22229438
    https://cdn.extra.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/21121855/colm-horkan-funeral-1.jpg

    There are many many reasons to criticise SF but to pick this when the Garda Siochana were part of in a large funeral with no social distancing strikes me as disingenuous and very much different rules apply.

    Do you fooking know how big a state funeral for a Garda normally is ?
    Well East Mayo has sadly had three of these now in 11 years.
    Ok one was in Blackrock in Co Louth, but it was for Ballina man, coincidentally slaughter by a so called republican.
    The other was for Robbie McCallion in Swinford.

    The funeral for Garda Horkan was totally scaled down precisely because of Covid Lockdown.
    Thousands of Gardai formed guard of honour at local stations throughout the country as a mark of respect rather than travel to Charlestown, Co. Mayo.

    And a lot of the people at that funeral were locals, people from his local town and surrounding towns where he had served as a Garda, coming out to show their respect to the slain man and his family.
    You had guard of honour both by local gardai and members of GAA since Colm Horkan had life long involvement in the association.

    Yes the commissioner and some high ranking gardai were present.

    Should he and other ranking officers in the divison not have bothered showing up to the funeral of a murdered colleague ?

    How many members of the Gardai travelled from throughout the country, unlike the shinners who did?

    So stop the equivalency shyte talk.

    It is bad enough you are equating the funerals of a guy linked to numerous murders and a garda that helped put criminals in jail, including child rapists for your information.
    Then again shinners are in the business of hiding child rapists.


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