How can someone in their 30s afford a house - PLEASE READ MOD WARNING IN OP

Wanderer78 · 05-07-2020 3:39pm

Augeo wrote: »

Beyond a quick Google & reference to some lefty t0ss you never have anything else up your sleeve

so if my opinions are toss and ****, what are your opinions on the matter?

05-07-2020 3:41pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

oh god no, getting a mortgage is difficult, but one of the main reasons we ve been experiencing rapid house price inflation has been the easier availability of credit from financial institutions over the last couple of decades due to the deregulation of the sector

Please do elaborate specifically wrt to Irish mortgage lenders and how the central bank rules tie in with your theory (I use the term lightly as I know it's not your own thoughts admittedly).

05-07-2020 3:42pm

Augeo wrote: »

My knowledge on the subject would be that with essentially free housing for wasters along with pocket money for life too many folk don't need to work.... Couple that with they don't want to and you have loads on the welfare train. Their kids expect the same.

If you house all these folk in estates the place turns into a sh1thole...... With HAP it pushes up rents for workers as a rental floor is provided by the HAP.

If you housed everyone on the housing list tomorrow and cleared the thing you'd find a list twice as long as the original a week later.

A quick Google can reveal any load of t0ss you want

Augeo wrote: »

3.5 times income. Quite a reasonable credit restriction IMO.

Plenty folk on decent money isn't a problem either BTW.... If you can't beat them join them
Or wait it out for the free forever home which seems to be the chosen option for many.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

so if my opinions are toss and ****, what are your opinions on the matter?

They are quoted above for you.

limnam · 05-07-2020 3:45pm

joeharte123 wrote: »

This is a social issue. You have to understand there’ll be bad areas and good areas in every city/town.

It's a manufactured social issue.

Wanderer78 · 05-07-2020 3:46pm

Augeo wrote: »

Please do elaborate specifically wrt to Irish mortgage lenders and how the central bank rules tie in with your theory (I use the term lightly as I know it's not your own thoughts admittedly).

plenty of people researching this now, including academics, the deregulation of the financial sector, and the subsequent rapid rise in their ability to create credit has flummoxed asset markets, particularly housing, i personally beleive nobody knows what to do next. central banks have been creating money to bait the band in order get some sort of inflation, but the only inflation theyve managed to do, is further asset price inflation, leading me to beleive, nobody knows what to do next

05-07-2020 3:46pm

joeharte123 wrote: »

.......

Most people looking for a social house today are actually young couples who are working ordinary jobs but cannot afford to buy private houses. ......

Is that fact or opinion?
A couple both working ordinary jobs would be on 40k to 70k combined income..... That buys plenty ordinary properties in plenty parts of the country.
We all don't need to live in expensive parts of Dublin.

What's your idea of any ordinary job? Minimum wage?

05-07-2020 3:49pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

plenty of people researching this now, including academics, the deregulation of the financial sector, and the subsequent rapid rise in their ability to create credit has flummoxed asset markets, particularly housing, i personally beleive nobody knows what to do next. central banks have been creating money to bait the band in order get some sort of inflation, but the only inflation theyve managed to do, is further asset price inflation, leading me to beleive, nobody knows what to do next

Why do the central bank stick to the 3.5 times income limit so? That's completely contrary to 'your' theory.

joeharte123 · 05-07-2020 3:54pm

Augeo wrote: »

Is that fact or opinion?
A couple both working ordinary jobs would be on 40k to 70k combined income..... That buys plenty ordinary properties in plenty parts of the country.
We all don't need to live in expensive parts of Dublin.

What's your idea of any ordinary job? Minimum wage?

I agree it does buy plenty of properties. What about a single person on 29k a year? They don’t have a lot of choice? They’d be years even saving for a 10% ftb deposit. Rather, if they had affordable rent they’d be happy to rent a home or apartment and possibly never bother with the private housing market. I understand there are many people able to afford homes, I’m talking about those that aren’t in that position. I’m not sticking up for those that opt not to work btw.

05-07-2020 4:01pm

Single on 29k and they qualify for HAP.
That aside do they decide to stay on 29k forever?
If so they should houseshare and save 300/month.... Over 5 years that's 18k...... Couple that with some career advancement & see where they are then.

Or they can accept their lot and see how that ends up for them. Affordable housing etc etc may become more accessible.

Years saving a deposit isn't a bad thing.... Many p1ss and moan about not having one when they're 30 odd as they didn't save for years.

05-07-2020 4:18pm

joeharte123 wrote: »

The obsession of buying here is driven by the higher cost of rents which force people to buy, thus forcing house prices up etc. Renting should be encouraged.

People being obsessed with buying in Ireland is a total myth, home ownership in Ireland is average for Europe and many continental European counties have much higher ownership.

When people refer to ownership being low they are thinking of Germany which is a total outlier mostly due to WW2 etc and it still has onweship of around 50%.

Also why anyone would aspire to renting as being a good thing for the nation I have no idea, owning your own home should be one of life’s main targets for everyone. Renting is dead money and should only be seen as a temporary thing and avoided totally if possible (live at home, only rent a room until you can buy etc).

Brian201888 · 05-07-2020 10:32pm

joeharte123 wrote: »

As far as I’m aware, you have to pay some sort of rent while living in social housing, and it depends on what you’re able to pay!
Yes, ghettoising people into housing estates has its own problems. Open to correction but 15 - 20% of new developments must be social housing I believe? In most cases, this can’t be a bad thing?

Most people looking for a social house today are actually young couples who are working ordinary jobs but cannot afford to buy private houses. Just like many peoples parents and grandparents lived in a social house for many years while saving up to buy a home later in life, I believe these young people should be given a break. It’s easy to visualise the thugz in your head that will be “getting a free gaff” but this is far less common than you think. Most people just want to get their life started.

Forcing a percentage of new builds to be social housing just drives the price up for everyone that can afford a house. If you build 100 homes and hand 10% over to the state you have to charge the other 90 purchasers more to cover your costs which is bollocks really. I've no issue with social housing but that punishes people buying a new home instead of it being something funded through general taxation as it should be.

Springy Turf · 06-07-2020 2:17pm

Savanna Refined Symbolism wrote: »

It’s written in the very article you linked, you obviously didn’t read it. Hint: ignore headline figures and keep in my the system is different in the Uk it’s 325k per person not 325k in total and there are top ups.

Fair enough. I missed that part - although there are ways you can characterise Irish inheritance tax as also being over 1million in certain circumstances also (3 children for example).

Savanna Refined Symbolism wrote: »

Because they are begrudgers as the only reason anyone could have for wanting to take large amounts of a families money rather than the next generation of that family benefitting is pure and utter bugrudgery.

You are claiming the only people who agree with inheritance tax are those who won't ever have to pay inheritance tax. A pretty ridiculous claim to make.

Savanna Refined Symbolism wrote: »

No we shouldn’t aim for equality if it means taking money from people who earned it (and paid massive amounts of tax on it) rather than letting their children have the full benefit and use it to make their life easier and get ahead of others. Helping “society” translates to handing money to people who do nothing - their parents had the same opportunities and accesss to education as anyone else if they want to leave money they should have gone out and earned it rather than expecting those who did to hand it over.

In one paragraph you accept that inheritance is used by children to "get ahead", and then later claim that everyone has the same opportunities and access to education as anyone else. Simply not true. Some people have access to expensive grinds, private schools. Some people can go through years of university with no income, without ever having to worry about money. Others are born into poverty and relatively slim odds of becoming financially comfortable.

Savanna Refined Symbolism wrote: »

Socially progressive = legalised theft. Taking from those who have done well, paid vast amounts of tax to hand to those with the paw out, disgusting.

In the 60s, it was a socially progressive move to make schools free. Would you have disagreed with that move? Unfortunately University here is not free - just not full cost.

Cyrus · 06-07-2020 2:22pm

Springy Turf wrote: »

Some people can go through years of university with no income, without ever having to worry about money. Others are born into poverty and relatively slim odds of becoming financially comfortable.

some peoples parents can subsidise them through college, some people need to get a part time job, i'm ok with that, most university courses leave ample time for a part time job, and there are grants for people who need them. The fact is anyone who wants to goto university can.

If they have useless parents who dont encourage and dont care then thats a parents problem.

Cyrus · 06-07-2020 2:24pm

Springy Turf wrote: »

Unfortunately University here is not free - just not full cost.

if you get a grant its covered isnt it?

Springy Turf · 06-07-2020 2:24pm

Brian201888 wrote: »

Forcing a percentage of new builds to be social housing just drives the price up for everyone that can afford a house. If you build 100 homes and hand 10% over to the state you have to charge the other 90 purchasers more to cover your costs which is bollocks really. I've no issue with social housing but that punishes people buying a new home instead of it being something funded through general taxation as it should be.

Not true - the social houses are paid for by the state.

LeineGlas · 06-07-2020 2:25pm

Cyrus wrote: »

If they have useless parents who dont encourage and dont care then thats a parents problem.

"I'm alright, Jack"

Springy Turf · 06-07-2020 2:27pm

Cyrus wrote: »

if you get a grant its covered isnt it?

In limited circumstances

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/third_level_education/fees_and_supports_for_third_level_education/maintenance_grant_schemes_for_students_on_third_level_courses.html#l9807f

Cyrus · 06-07-2020 2:59pm

LeineGlas wrote: »

"I'm alright, Jack"

you want me to be responsible for someone elses parents ?

Cyrus · 06-07-2020 2:59pm

Springy Turf wrote: »

In limited circumstances

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/third_level_education/fees_and_supports_for_third_level_education/maintenance_grant_schemes_for_students_on_third_level_courses.html#l9807f

yes but in the main its aimed at those who need it, if you dont need it you cant get it.

summary

3rd level is accessible in ireland.

06-07-2020 3:14pm

Springy Turf wrote: »

In limited circumstances

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/third_level_education/fees_and_supports_for_third_level_education/maintenance_grant_schemes_for_students_on_third_level_courses.html#l9807f

Not that limited, I knew lots of people ranging from having all reg fees covered right up to getting the full grant and none were badly off at all (parents all private home owners, some quite well off but self employed so able to work the system etc).

The fact is in Ireland everyone has the same chance to do well from themselves and good a good college education, if from a poor background there are grants and other incentives and school is free. As another poster said if the issue is parental encouragement etc then no amount of redistributed money through "social equality" is going to get them into college etc.

Parents who are able to help out their children with money though gifts and inheritances are also the type who heavily encourage them to do well, get good educations and good jobs so its not a surpsie that you see the next generation doing well also.

Springy Turf · 06-07-2020 3:28pm

Savanna Refined Symbolism wrote: »

Parents who are able to help out their children with money though gifts and inheritances are also the type who heavily encourage them to do well, get good educations and good jobs so its not a surpsie that you see the next generation doing well also.

This is exactly why I think taxing inheritance is a good idea. And I am glad to see you appreciate some of the ways your tax money is being used.

guyfawkes5 · 06-07-2020 3:35pm

Springy Turf wrote: »

This is exactly why I think taxing inheritance is a good idea. And I am glad to see you appreciate some of the ways your tax money is being used.

Inheritance tax is generally seen by economists as one of the most positive and unobjectionable taxes you can have, as it relies on an event that can't realistically be gamed or planned for at any meaningful scale (outside of Cluedo), doesn't disincentivise good economic behaviours, and the transfer of property or assets is a process that involves the government anyway, so very little resources are needed for enforcement.

Just set the upper threshold above what 90% of households hold in assets, and it also has a redistributive affect without making anyone poorer. Magic!

elefant · 06-07-2020 3:38pm

Savanna Refined Symbolism wrote: »

The fact is in Ireland everyone has the same chance to do well from themselves and good a good college education, if from a poor background there are grants and other incentives and school is free. As another poster said if the issue is parental encouragement etc then no amount of redistributed money through "social equality" is going to get them into college etc.

Everyone has the same chance in theory but in practice it, as you say, doesn't work like that. It doesn't just go without saying that no amount of public investment can change this, even if only to a small extent.

There's a fascinating OECD brief on sticky floors and sticky ceilings here if anyone is interested:
https://www.oecd.org/els/soc/Social-Mobility-2018-PolicyBrief.pdf
In short, 'it could take on average four to five generations for the offspring of a low-income family to reach the average income'

Personally, I'm happy to have higher taxes, including inheritance taxes, going towards improvements in society at large. Others might have different feelings on that. Having faith in these taxes being used efficiently is another topic, but in general I'd prefer not to leave children from lower-income families with the status quo, and see if they can beat the odds by themselves.

listermint · 06-07-2020 3:40pm

Cyrus wrote: »

some peoples parents can subsidise them through college, some people need to get a part time job, i'm ok with that, most university courses leave ample time for a part time job, and there are grants for people who need them. The fact is anyone who wants to goto university can.

If they have useless parents who dont encourage and dont care then thats a parents problem.

I doubt you've ever wanted for anything.

Literally.

listermint · 06-07-2020 3:41pm

Cyrus wrote: »

you want me to be responsible for someone elses parents ?

No. I'd like you to understand the subject matter you are talking about.

It's evident you don't and more equally are not bothered by the ignorance of it.

Cyrus · 06-07-2020 3:53pm

listermint wrote: »

No. I'd like you to understand the subject matter you are talking about.

It's evident you don't and more equally are not bothered by the ignorance of it.

You disagree that 3rd level education is accessible in ireland?

You disagree that its a parents job to encourage and guide their children in life?

Explain where i'm wrong here.

Cyrus · 06-07-2020 3:56pm

listermint wrote: »

I doubt you've ever wanted for anything.

Literally.

what have you ever wanted for?

Eric Cartman · 06-07-2020 3:59pm

Savanna Refined Symbolism wrote: »

Not that limited, I knew lots of people ranging from having all reg fees covered right up to getting the full grant and none were badly off at all (parents all private home owners, some quite well off but self employed so able to work the system etc).

The fact is in Ireland everyone has the same chance to do well from themselves and good a good college education, if from a poor background there are grants and other incentives and school is free. As another poster said if the issue is parental encouragement etc then no amount of redistributed money through "social equality" is going to get them into college etc.

Parents who are able to help out their children with money though gifts and inheritances are also the type who heavily encourage them to do well, get good educations and good jobs so its not a surpsie that you see the next generation doing well also.

I would agree that access to college has been mostly resolved in the last 30 years. However I do think theres another problem and its where good parents and good guidance is key.

colleges and universities are so hungry for cash they keep adding useless courses that won't possibly result in the grant money etc.. ever making it back into the economy when that student enters the world of work.

I think we need to lock down grants and scholarships to key areas like STEM. We're facing into a future where more people have degrees than not, but students from poorer and less educated families are picking courses like 'social justice' 'anthropology and English' etc... which is going to leave them still working in Tesco but with a fancy certificate to frame and hang. More educated families are steering their kids away from these courses because they can size the future from it, many poor families are just happy little Johnny and Mary went to college.

RedXIV · 06-07-2020 4:09pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I think we need to lock down grants and scholarships to key areas like STEM. We're facing into a future where more people have degrees than not, but students from poorer and less educated families are picking courses like 'social justice' 'anthropology and English' etc... which is going to leave them still working in Tesco but with a fancy certificate to frame and hang. More educated families are steering their kids away from these courses because they can size the future from it, many poor families are just happy little Johnny and Mary went to college.

I think this is one of the key issues with a lot of the upset millennials out there. I was in school when we were all told "You can be ANYTHING YOU WANT!" and "Do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life" and as a result, there was a huge number of people who did courses without thinking of long term job prospects as they were told by people who they trusted that job prospects didn't matter any more.

I'm just lucky I liked computers and went into IT, but I know a few friends who went for niche degrees and now have no idea what to do with them?

(my favourite was Computer science and Theology, I'd love to know the overlaps there)

listermint · 06-07-2020 4:09pm

Cyrus wrote: »

You disagree that 3rd level education is accessible in ireland?

You disagree that its a parents job to encourage and guide their children in life?

Explain where i'm wrong here.

I disagree with your nonsense about blaming parents for the ills of society.

Should I blame your parents for having you so ill informed on the absolutely wide arrange of social issues that can impede even the smartest individual fulfilling their potential.

You are coming across typically ignorant.

How can someone in their 30s afford a house - PLEASE READ MOD WARNING IN OP

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