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Green Party wish list.

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    #2462
    efanton
    Registered Users Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭efanton


    KyussB wrote: »
    I've repeatedly debunked the exact same points you are bringing up again and again, and you don't listen - so you are failing to understand:
    The borrowing limts are suspended. The economic crisis is part of the covid crisis. The Stability and Growth Pact deficit limits are unenforceable, due to having given favourable treatment to all of France, Germany, Spain and Portugal - and to attempt to enforce it, would trigger a fresh EU political/economic crisis.

    That's a non-issue, a non-runner, and would result in a very welcome EU-level confrontation and reforms among all member states, if attempts to enforce it were issued.

    You are asking me that question, regarding business decisions from banks/financial institutions - in order for you try try to claim that government finances work like household/business finances - and I have explained to you, how government finances do not operating like household/business finances, regardless of the decisionmaking banking/financial institutions use, in deciding whether to or not to purchase government bonds.

    So your question is irrelevant - and I had already asked you before you ever asked that:
    Do you know any business or household that's able to tax an entire economy (which keeps growing in size permanently) to back paying its debts, and which typically rolls over its debts forever, with a long-term permanently increasing stock of debt (not the same as percentage relative to GDP)?

    Your last question is also a loaded question, assuming that the policies I advocate require such a cast-iron guarantee - they do not, as the need to borrow depends upon macroeconomic conditions and whether we are in a period of Full-Employment/Full-Output - and macroeconomic conditions now, and likely for most of the decade, all but guarantee an abundance of demand for government bonds.

    We both know you're not going to leave the conversation there, as you claim - you're going to try to continue a rhetorical attack.

    you sir are being completely idiotic.

    I fully understand what I write, I would not write it otherwise.

    It was not a loaded question, in fact it was extremely relevant. No doubt it was a question that you wish not to answer because you cannot.

    If you cannot have a rational conversation and back up your claims with facts (not theories), then you simply do not have an argument.

    Dont bother replying, if you are not prepared to accept reality then this conversation is over.


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    #2463
    KyussB
    Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭KyussB


    Ya well if you don't mind writing it without the insults then...

    I have directly explained how government finances do not operate like household/business finances - again repeating this for maybe the 5th/6th time - and you have no answer to this:
    Do you know any business or household that's able to tax an entire economy (which keeps growing in size permanently) to back paying its debts, and which typically rolls over its debts forever, with a long-term permanently increasing stock of debt (not the same as percentage relative to GDP)?

    Those fundamental differences hold, regardless of the decisionmaking that goes into banking/financial purchases of government bonds (your first question rendered irrelevant...), and without the requirement of a cast-iron guarantee over bond purchases all of the time (as bond purchases are not required all of the time - it depends on macroeconomic conditions - rendering your second question irrelevant).

    The fact is - and this makes both of those questions further irrelevant - as I have been saying repeatedly, the negative interest rate environment will not be going away anytime in the next half decade at least (the collapse of the Eurozone would be the end-result, otherwise) - which inherently means abundant demand for government bonds, that is all but guaranteed for that period of time.


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    #2464
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,295 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    John Connors is organising a protest outside the Dail on the 18th calling for O Gorman to be sacked, will be interesting to see how this plays out.

    The Greens are just ignoring him because they can't be seen to criticise Connors but he ain't letting it go.


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    #2465
    Rows Grower
    Registered Users Posts: 7,845 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    John Connors is organising a protest outside the Dail on the 18th calling for O Gorman to be sacked, will be interesting to see how this plays out.

    The Greens are just ignoring him because they can't be seen to criticise Connors but he ain't letting it go.

    Got sent a WhatsApp message earlier today of Connors speaking about the controversy.

    He’s an articulate man and is disgusted and very worried by the situation.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



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    #2466
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    John Connors is organising a protest outside the Dail on the 18th calling for O Gorman to be sacked, will be interesting to see how this plays out.

    The Greens are just ignoring him because they can't be seen to criticise Connors but he ain't letting it go.

    this is one of those magic moments when the left goes whisper quiet because they can't be seen to pick sides between a traveller, a gay minister and condemning/defending a paedophile sympathiser.


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    #2467
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,098 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    this is one of those magic moments when the left goes whisper quiet because they can't be seen to pick sides between a traveller, a gay minister and condemning/defending a paedophile sympathiser.

    Very funny.


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    #2468
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,518 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    John Connors is organising a protest outside the Dail on the 18th calling for O Gorman to be sacked, will be interesting to see how this plays out.

    The Greens are just ignoring him because they can't be seen to criticise Connors but he ain't letting it go.

    Interesting to see people on Boards now posting in favour of something John Connors is saying/doing.

    Wonder how long this will last?


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    #2469
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,105 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    this is one of those magic moments when the left goes whisper quiet because they can't be seen to pick sides between a traveller, a gay minister and condemning/defending a paedophile sympathiser.

    Reminds of when the travellers in Castelbar objected to refugees being housed near them as they wanted the house for one of their own.

    The right on crew didn't know where to jump. :D
    Tell me how wrote: »
    Interesting to see people on Boards now posting in favour of something John Connors is saying/doing.

    Wonder how long this will last?

    Why ?
    You do know even people you normally vehemently disagree with can sometimes have points and causes that you may agree with.

    This is the problem with modern current affairs and politics, where people pick a side and refuse to countenance anything at all, however sensible it may be, that comes from the opposing side.


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    #2470
    Rows Grower
    Registered Users Posts: 7,845 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Interesting to see people on Boards now posting in favour of something John Connors is saying/doing.

    Wonder how long this will last?

    What is your point?

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



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    #2471
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,118 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Connors has tapped out he's moving on.

    https://twitter.com/johnconnors1990/status/1280097563308429313?s=20


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    #2472
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,295 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Interesting to see people on Boards now posting in favour of something John Connors is saying/doing.

    Wonder how long this will last?

    Well Connors was right on this one, the media turned a blind eye to it and it didn't even get a mention until today when O Gorman had to say something about it.

    Although he reckons its the the far right who is out to get him despite the fact that there is no far right in Ireland.

    He should have come out last Friday and distanced himself from Tatchell and his sick way of thinking and this would have been accepted by most people.


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    #2473
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    Well Connors was right on this one, the media turned a blind eye to it and it didn't even get a mention until today when O Gorman had to say something about it.

    Although he reckons its the the far right who is out to get him despite the fact that there is no far right in Ireland.

    He should have come out last Friday and distanced himself from Tatchell and his sick way of thinking and this would have been accepted by most people.

    he also said he met thatchell only once for that photo. Im sure somebody is trawling all the social media they can to see if there was ever another incident. One Green Party meeting together and its back in hot water for him.


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    #2474
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,118 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    New Children's Minister to make it easier for under-16s to change their gender.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/new-childrens-minister-to-make-it-easier-for-under-16s-to-change-their-gender-39346464.html

    Starting to wonder about the Greens...


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    #2475
    Rows Grower
    Registered Users Posts: 7,845 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    New Children's Minister to make it easier for under-16s to change their gender.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/new-childrens-minister-to-make-it-easier-for-under-16s-to-change-their-gender-39346464.html

    Starting to wonder about the Greens...

    That's a very strange issue to have as your top priority as Minister for Children.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



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    #2476
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,695 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Ryan is on R1 now.


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    #2477
    Capra
    Registered Users Posts: 197 ✭✭Capra


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    New Children's Minister to make it easier for under-16s to change their gender.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/new-childrens-minister-to-make-it-easier-for-under-16s-to-change-their-gender-39346464.html

    Starting to wonder about the Greens...

    They have plenty of form in questionable policies.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/green-party-germany-manifesto-1980s-1086083-Sep2013/


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    #2478
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,847 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    I hope they arent going down the route The Greens in Germany went down in the 60's and 70's. To come out the door with this is not very smart.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #2479
    VillageIdiot71
    Registered Users Posts: 578 ✭✭✭VillageIdiot71


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Connors has tapped out he's moving on.
    Probably the right course of action, and this is probably the first time I've agreed with him so fully on a topic.

    I mean, the issue was only to extract some necessary clarity. I'm sure Rod wasn't expecting that the nice guy from England that held the Green Party banner with him at a parade, (yes, I know he was born in Footscray) who was campaigning for gay rights before Rod was a couple of gametes, wrote something unusual about joyful nine year olds.

    Nice summer day. Vaguely heard this guy is someone famous. I must Tweet and get the street cred!

    The problem is more how he's handled it now, and even his statement is poor and if his candour and balance doesn't improve he'll have a lot of problems in handling several potentially charged issues. Because he was forced into taking a back-step, and he didn't do it graciously. That heralds potential problems when he's trying to deal with things like Direct Provision - where the people wanting change stretch from folk who want to close our borders (easy enough when there's a pandemic, you'd think) to people who want completely open borders.

    Looks like this guy will struggle to bring people along with him. Many of the folk who queried his endorsement of Tatchell were parents with named Twitter accounts. He's just antagonised all of them, by lumping them in with anonymous trolls.

    Like John Connors, I think we should Welease Woderic, so far as this matter goes. But I think he'll dump himself back into it again, soon enough.


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    #2480
    keano_afc
    Registered Users Posts: 8,711 ✭✭✭keano_afc


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    New Children's Minister to make it easier for under-16s to change their gender.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/new-childrens-minister-to-make-it-easier-for-under-16s-to-change-their-gender-39346464.html

    Starting to wonder about the Greens...

    Well that didnt take long. I'm sure anyone who questions him on this will be a far-right homophobe, and called faceless trolls by our elected representatives.


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    #2481
    1800_Ladladlad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,350 ✭✭✭1800_Ladladlad


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    New Children's Minister to make it easier for under-16s to change their gender.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/new-childrens-minister-to-make-it-easier-for-under-16s-to-change-their-gender-39346464.html

    Starting to wonder about the Greens...


    He's not wasting any time is he!! If they believe that 16 children have the same faculties as an adult, then IMO they believe sex with 16 y/o is not rape. Hence the first step toward in attempting to legitimize pedophilia. I find this very odd that after the other conversation was shut down for concerns "homophobia", Will any criticism or dissent be accused of being far right or homophobic? Its wrong.


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    #2482
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,118 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Yea your a far right homophobe if you don't embrace left wing child trans ideology. I'm finding it pretty hilarious watching the terfs on Facebook, all men need to do is sit back and have a beer and let them at it.
    He could have calmed things down yesterday instead he insulted a lot of people then he comes after their Childrens gender this morning. I was giving he the benifit of the doubt, know I think he needs to go immediately.


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    #2483
    Tea drinker
    Registered Users Posts: 2,818 ✭✭✭Tea drinker


    “It’s an attempt by the far right to silence people from minorities and to suppress difference. They’ll use whatever they can to undermine those who seek to stand up to their agenda. But it certainly isn’t going to work with me.”

    Mr O’Gorman has been criticised in recent days for marching alongside British LGBT rights campaigner Peter Tatchell at Dublin’s Pride march two years ago.

    In a 1997 letter to the Guardian, Mr Tatchell controversially wrote that some of his friends had made a “conscious choice” to have sex with an adult when they were under the age of 13. “While it may be impossible to condone paedophilia, it is time society acknowledged the truth that not all sex involving children is unwanted, abusive and harmful,” wrote the British campaigner.

    Mr Tatchell has since claimed the letter was edited and said sex with children was “impossible to condone”. “This means I condemn it,” he said in a tweet posted last week. “I oppose adults having sex with children.”



    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/minister-for-children-condemns-homophobic-attacks-from-far-right-1.4297259

    Seems like the best defence is a good offence (both meanings)


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    #2484
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    New Children's Minister to make it easier for under-16s to change their gender.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/new-childrens-minister-to-make-it-easier-for-under-16s-to-change-their-gender-39346464.html

    Starting to wonder about the Greens...

    Absolutely disgusting. This has no place in our society. Nobody would adovcate for allowing under 16s to get tattoos or plastic surgery, but if its this agenda then its full steam ahead. Since when is it acceptable to allow children to make very possibly damaging and irreparable choices.


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    #2485
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,458 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Absolutely disgusting. This has no place in our society. Nobody would adovcate for allowing under 16s to get tattoos or plastic surgery, but if its this agenda then its full steam ahead. Since when is it acceptable to allow children to make very possibly damaging and irreparable choices.
    Look at the other thread on this specific subject.
    References (risible ones) are made to "crisis puberty".


    It is laughable and concerning what the left will condone when it suits their needs


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    #2486
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Look at the other thread on this specific subject.
    References (risible ones) are made to "crisis puberty".


    It is laughable and concerning what the left will condone when it suits their needs

    Saw that, barbaric what people want to allow children to do. I can oppose all of this concerted effort to attack children knowing full well that ill always be on the right side of history.


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    #2487
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,518 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Absolutely disgusting. This has no place in our society. Nobody would adovcate for allowing under 16s to get tattoos or plastic surgery, but if its this agenda then its full steam ahead. Since when is it acceptable to allow children to make very possibly damaging and irreparable choices.

    Do you think the age of consent should be raised above 16?
    But the choice to have sex could lead to very possibly damaging and irreparable choices couldn't it?

    On the wider topic, of gender identification, I'm trying to stay out of that conversation, but is the proposal not just that it would allow the person to do so in conjunction with their parents and GP?


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    #2488
    Tea drinker
    Registered Users Posts: 2,818 ✭✭✭Tea drinker


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Do you think the age of consent should be raised above 16?
    But the choice to have sex could lead to very possibly damaging and irreparable choices couldn't it?

    On the wider topic, of gender identification, I'm trying to stay out of that conversation, but is the proposal not just that it would allow the person to do so in conjunction with their parents and GP?
    Whatever about kids banging each other it's potentially safer than letting a kid get itself cut up in some surgery. Or the sometimes follow up surgery to try to go back. I actually don't get this myself, I wonder how many parents are actively pushing for or against it. I think children are far more at risk of a ruined life by poor parenting and truancy that feeling trapped in wrong sex body


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    #2489
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,518 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Saw that, barbaric what people want to allow children to do. I can oppose all of this concerted effort to attack children knowing full well that ill always be on the right side of history.

    That is quite a statement. I wonder how many people would look back on views they held when they were younger and are glad they no longer hold them?

    I'm not saying you are definitely going to, or should change your mind on this but to say the above with such conviction is interesting.


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    #2490
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,098 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Absolutely disgusting. This has no place in our society. Nobody would adovcate for allowing under 16s to get tattoos or plastic surgery, but if its this agenda then its full steam ahead. Since when is it acceptable to allow children to make very possibly damaging and irreparable choices.

    Myself and my friends have been saying for years that these people won't stop.

    They see themselves as having "won" on several issues:

    same-sex marriage
    abortion

    We have often asked out loud "what's next?"

    this gender stuff
    men having babies
    sex-ed - they are pushing to make it law to teach certain issues
    removing the importance of families / stay at home mothers
    restriction on what you can say, even though it's the truth
    positive discrimination for Africans: jobs, places on boards, etc.


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    #2491
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,098 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Eric Cartman wrote: »

    The rest of the stuff is just throwing a green sticker over ‘tax the middle and upper classes even more to death’

    I am reading the PfG now.

    The only tax increases planned, as far as I can see, are as follows:

    (1) Carbon tax, from 26 euro now, to 100 euro by 2030

    (2) ".....we will focus any tax rises on those taxes that tax behaviours with negative externalities, such as carbon tax, sugar tax, and plastics.


    So I would expect a sugar tax on food.


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