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Covid19 Part XIX-25,802 in ROI (1,753 deaths) 5,859 in NI (556 deaths) (21/07)Read OP

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Comments

  • #1772
    owlbethere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭owlbethere


    Renjit wrote: »
    Just wait for two more weeks. We will have data.

    The government was slow to act earlier in the year back around about the end of February and the start of March. Hopefully cases don't spike but if they do, they will have to act fast to implement a localised lockdown.


  • #1773
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,461 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    tom1ie wrote: »
    Is dame lane on that cam?
    Also do we expect people to go home to their beds after 10pm? Like **** they will.
    It’ll be house party’s all over the place with no SD.

    the same house parties that have been going on for weeks and throughout lockdown.

    I hear what your saying but we've been here before, outrage and house parties, then it was the BLM protests but yet here we are. Let's wait and see but I honestly don't expect any significant increase in case numbers in 2 weeks time


  • #1774
    tom1ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,142 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    It's 1 video, I've not seen any other videos doing the rounds so I'll wait until I see others.

    The chances of anything happening from that video is extremely low.

    I get what your saying but its not the huge panic some make it out to be, I'd be more concerned if they were indoor

    No that’s not the point. No one mentioned panic until you did.
    I am clearly pointing out how easy it is for c19 to regain a foothold in society due to people just not taking kindly to being told what to do, or being uneducated idiots, whatever you want to call them.
    If hotspot tourists (new phrase?) were in that crowd there would be a chance of infection.
    That’s just a fact.


  • #1775
    The HorsesMouth
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 513 ✭✭✭The HorsesMouth


    I'm depressed looking and reading about the crowds in dublin tonight.
    There are children at home in their beds doing their best for the past 3 months with no friends/school or sport and hoping to get back to learning and playing again in September and this is type of utter b*****x that's going to prevent them from doing that. Maybe not tonight, but if that type of gathering is allowed happen again its inevitable that someone will trigger an infection outbreak.
    What is wrong with us?!!! I'm so angry looking at those videos...at those people but especially at the publicans who found a way to bend the guidelines to suit them. And you can be guaranteed they had some BS post up on their facebook page talking about taking all necessary precautions and installing this that and the other...but once you're 100m away from the door..nah not my problem anymore!


  • #1776
    Strumms
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,931 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    ShineOn7 wrote: »
    Not sure that's true Stephen. There's littering laws all the disposable cups will break for starters

    And that aside, in the video they're clearly standing outside the bars in Dame Lane and not 100 metres away from them

    Irish Publicans, for once, need to restrain their greed. Absolutely no responsibility shown by the Dame Lane bar owners here and they're responsible for what we're seeing in this video

    Publicans are mostly a fûcking greedy mob.. I know well one who isn’t but mostly greedy. This health crisis proves that... every single one of them too getting facilitated with covid payment and healthy bank balances before that.


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  • #1777
    Eod100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,257 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    It's 1 video, I've not seen any other videos doing the rounds so I'll wait until I see others.

    The chances of anything happening from that video is extremely low.

    I get what your saying but its not the huge panic some make it out to be, I'd be more concerned if they were indoor

    I get that side but I still think it's the principle and the optics of it. For starters pubs shouldn't be able to serve takeaway pints anymore, have people sit in and eat in. Let them outside once they've eaten but only if social distancing happens and not too many people outside at the same time.

    The rules are onerous for a reason, if they either can't or are unwilling to enforce them, then they can stay closed until they can. Has to be a tough line on this. We've all sacrificed far too much for short term gain for publicans.


  • #1778
    tom1ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,142 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    the same house parties that have been going on for weeks and throughout lockdown.

    I hear what your saying but we've been here before, outrage and house parties, then it was the BLM protests but yet here we are. Let's wait and see but I honestly don't expect any significant increase in case numbers in 2 weeks time

    Yes but all that occurred when we had low virus levels in the community let’s see what happens with a fresh injection of UK and USA tourists. I’ve a fairly good idea of what’ll happen have you?


  • #1779
    tom1ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,142 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    joeguevara wrote: »
    Honestly was only curious. Wasn't saying that pubs are packed. I'm completely against them opening and if you had asked me a year ago would I refuse to be out on a Saturday I'd have laughed. But in, watching MoTD on record. And us Spurs fans have to stick together

    Without a doubt!!


  • #1780
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,461 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    ShineOn7 wrote: »
    Not sure that's true Stephen. There's littering laws all the disposable cups will break for starters

    And that aside, in the video they're clearly standing outside the bars in Dame Lane and not 100 metres away from them

    Irish Publicans, for once, need to restrain their greed. Absolutely no responsibility shown by the Dame Lane bar owners here and they're responsible for what we're seeing in this video

    Its quite easy to say I'm 100m away from where I bought it, its Dame Lane you could have bought it down the other end of the street and you'd be your 100m.

    Anyway heres an explanation of the acts that cover alcohol in public and the off trade.

    "Under the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994, it is an offence for you to be so drunk in a public place that you could reasonably be presumed to be a danger to yourself or to anyone around you. If found guilty of this offence, you could be liable to a class E fine and a member of the Garda Siochana can confiscate any alcohol you may be carrying.

    It is illegal for a licence holder to sell alcohol in a closed container (i.e., can or bottle) for consumption off the premises in a place 100 metres from the premises. If you purchase alcohol in this way, you could be liable for a class E fine.

    While there is no national legislation prohibiting drinking in public, each local authority area is entitled to pass bye-laws prohibiting the consumption of alcohol in a public place. Contact your local authority to find out about these bye-laws in your area."


  • #1781
    YellowBucket
    Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭YellowBucket


    The HorsesMouth wrote: »
    I'm depressed looking and reading about the crowds in dublin tonight.
    There are children at home in their beds doing their best for the past 3 months with no friends/school or sport and hoping to get back to learning and playing again in September and this is type of utter b*****x that's going to prevent them from doing that. Maybe not tonight, but if that type of gathering is allowed happen again its inevitable that someone will trigger an infection outbreak.
    What is wrong with us?!!! I'm so angry looking at those videos...at those people but especially at the publicans who found a way to bend the guidelines to suit them. And you can be guaranteed they had some BS post up on their facebook page talking about taking all necessary precautions and installing this that and the other...but once you're 100m away from the door..nah not my problem anymore!

    Potentially they're putting the whole economy at risk too.

    Pubs and hospitality sector are but a small part of the economy and if we end up with a situation where we're faced with a second hard lockdown we are going to cost ourselves quite a large number of billions both in terms of healthcare cost, social welfare costs and more importantly in terms of opportunity costs by having to close down the economy.

    That's before you even get into the fact that it could cause deaths both directly and by clogging or disrupting the hospitals again.

    There's a pragmatic way forward on this and it's not just about "yay throw everything back to normal" vs "absolute lockdown". It's about proceeding with most things open with caution and that's what all the public health advice has been aiming towards.


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  • #1782
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,461 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    tom1ie wrote: »
    Yes but all that occurred when we had low virus levels in the community let’s see what happens with a fresh injection of UK and USA tourists. I’ve a fairly good idea of what’ll happen have you?

    And is there a known injection of them in Dublin at the moment ??

    I've a mate who's a manager in a central hotel in Dublin that would usually be full of American tour groups and they've no international bookings for the next 2 weeks anyway, I didn't ask about after that.


  • #1783
    ShineOn7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭ShineOn7


    ACitizenErased wrote: »
    You’re generalising a bit by insinuating that every single tourist has the virus.


    It only takes one, in the right circumstances, to infect dozens


  • #1784
    tom1ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,142 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    YellowBucket wrote: »
    Potentially they're putting the whole economy at risk too.

    Pubs and hospitality sector are but a small part of the economy and if we end up with a situation where we're faced with a second hard lockdown we are going to cost ourselves quite a large number of billions both in terms of healthcare cost, social welfare costs and more importantly in terms of opportunity costs by having to close down the economy.

    That's before you even get into the fact that it could cause deaths both directly and by clogging or disrupting the hospitals again.

    Ffs I’ve a break away in Sligo and Clare booked in august.
    If this **** carry’s on you can be guaranteed we’ll be locked down again thanks to these assholes and do you think they’ll take any blame? Then or the publicans? Like fcuk they will.


  • #1785
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,461 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    tom1ie wrote: »
    No that’s not the point. No one mentioned panic until you did.
    I am clearly pointing out how easy it is for c19 to regain a foothold in society due to people just not taking kindly to being told what to do, or being uneducated idiots, whatever you want to call them.
    If hotspot tourists (new phrase?) were in that crowd there would be a chance of infection.
    That’s just a fact.

    nobody might have said the word panic but you sure as hell get a sense of it.

    We all know how easy it is for it to spike when appropriate measures aren't in place.

    You keep going on as if theres throngs of toursits milling around Dublin at the moment and thats just not the case.

    I'm in the city centre daily, you can spot the tourists a mile away, the Americans stand out more than others but being in town the last week there just isn't any around.


  • #1786
    podgeandrodge
    Site Banned Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭podgeandrodge


    Assuming the virus will be with us for quite a while yet, is it not the case that we simply have to accept that there will be crowds of people around like this, and some will catch covid and contact tracing will have to deal with it.

    We can't keep everything closed indefinitely to prevent spread, we've got it down to extremely low transmission in the community, and with restrictions lifting, it's gonna go back up a little - and hopefully in a way that can be managed.


  • #1787
    bb1234567
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,513 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    ACitizenErased wrote: »
    You’re generalising a bit by insinuating that every single tourist has the virus.

    Based on the deaths each day in just three of the some of the largest countries in the world, USA India and Brazil, each of them is most likely seeing an increase of perhaps as many as a million new infections a week. Much of Latin America,USA, Middle East, South Asia, Eastern Europe and even within Western Europe Sweden and UK there is very significant community transmission still ongoing, so it would actually be fair to say the average tourist or anyone returning from most countries in the world right now really do in fact pose a signfiicant risk of bringing the virus into Ireland


  • #1788
    Eod100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,257 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    Its quite easy to say I'm 100m away from where I bought it, its Dame Lane you could have bought it down the other end of the street and you'd be your 100m.

    Anyway heres an explanation of the acts that cover alcohol in public and the off trade.

    "Under the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994, it is an offence for you to be so drunk in a public place that you could reasonably be presumed to be a danger to yourself or to anyone around you. If found guilty of this offence, you could be liable to a class E fine and a member of the Garda Siochana can confiscate any alcohol you may be carrying.

    It is illegal for a licence holder to sell alcohol in a closed container (i.e., can or bottle) for consumption off the premises in a place 100 metres from the premises. If you purchase alcohol in this way, you could be liable for a class E fine.

    While there is no national legislation prohibiting drinking in public, each local authority area is entitled to pass bye-laws prohibiting the consumption of alcohol in a public place. Contact your local authority to find out about these bye-laws in your area."

    I think Gardai will rightly be taking a stronger line than usual on this. Hopefully inspections means these scenes are prevented. And before anyone thinks anyone criticising is against craic or anything, not the case. Would love to be able to return to scenes like that safely but the point is we're not there yet. And things like this risk putting us back in our progress.


  • #1789
    YellowBucket
    Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭YellowBucket


    People have to get the message through their heads that the virus has not been eradicated - we just temporarily removed its source of fresh hosts i.e. by social distancing and slowed down the infection rate dramatically.

    To maintain that level, we have to take precautions and it's fairly clear we aren't.

    A large % of discussions I have had, even with people who I'd assume were more sensible has been either exceptionalism about how it's something that can only happen somewhere else, or a notion that it's been completely eradicated by 'all our hard work' and 'sure aren't we a great bunch altogether'.

    A false-victory and the complacency it leads to can be the very thing that causes you huge damage.

    Also people have to stop equating taking sensible levels of precautions with absolute lockdown. There's a huge difference.

    If people just followed the guidelines we'd be on track to being in a good position. Right now, we're gambling with throwing it all away.


  • #1790
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    The HorsesMouth wrote: »
    I'm depressed looking and reading about the crowds in dublin tonight.
    There are children at home in their beds doing their best for the past 3 months with no friends/school or sport and hoping to get back to learning and playing again in September and this is type of utter b*****x that's going to prevent them from doing that. Maybe not tonight, but if that type of gathering is allowed happen again its inevitable that someone will trigger an infection outbreak.
    What is wrong with us?!!! I'm so angry looking at those videos...at those people but especially at the publicans who found a way to bend the guidelines to suit them. And you can be guaranteed they had some BS post up on their facebook page talking about taking all necessary precautions and installing this that and the other...but once you're 100m away from the door..nah not my problem anymore!

    lol. No other words are worthy.


  • #1791
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,461 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    podgeandrodge wrote: »
    Assuming the virus will be with us for quite a while yet, is it not the case that we simply have to accept that there will be crowds of people around like this, and some will catch covid and contact tracing will have to deal with it.

    We can't keep everything closed indefinitely to prevent spread, we've got it down to extremely low transmission in the community, and with restrictions lifting, it's gonna go back up a little - and hopefully in a way that can be managed.

    Exactly this, sure the first night the Italians opened the bars there were pictures and videos from Milan amongst other places of outdoor terraces packed. No visible consequence weeks later.

    From 20th July outdoor gatherings of 500 are allowed so people will have to get used to see large enough gatherings.

    There's going to be spikes, to suggest we can keep cases as low as they've been is fanciful. For me anything under 50 a day is acceptable so long as these aren't all translating to hosptial admissions


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  • #1792
    tom1ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,142 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    And is there a known injection of them in Dublin at the moment ??

    I've a mate who's a manager in a central hotel in Dublin that would usually be full of American tour groups and they've no international bookings for the next 2 weeks anyway, I didn't ask about after that.

    Do you know that there isn’t?
    Do you know that anyone in that video wasn’t interacting with the USA tourists that were supposedly in Killarney during the week?
    What about UK tourists? How do you know they werent there?
    Surely we have to air on the side of caution.


  • #1793
    Galadriel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,298 ✭✭✭Galadriel


    I walked up Camden Street earlier, I couldn't believe some of the bars, they were rammed and the outdoor seating areas also jammed. No social distancing in place. Really surprised as I heard the Gardai were doing the rounds.


  • #1794
    fritzelly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,178 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    podgeandrodge wrote: »
    Assuming the virus will be with us for quite a while yet, is it not the case that we simply have to accept that there will be crowds of people around like this, and some will catch covid and contact tracing will have to deal with it.

    We can't keep everything closed indefinitely to prevent spread, we've got it down to extremely low transmission in the community, and with restrictions lifting, it's gonna go back up a little - and hopefully in a way that can be managed.

    Wasn't the point of a gradual easing of the lockdown to make sure we don't have a massive resurgence
    They brought forward lots of stuff like bars (restaurants) reopening with health measures in place
    Scenes like posted earlier were not what they envisaged - another 3 weeks, when bars can reopen, we may be down to 1 or 2 cases a day if that

    Passed one my regular haunts on Camden St late this afternoon - people outside eating and drinking and got a real craving to pop in but said no I can wait a few more weeks (was pretty busy and certainly no 1 meter rule happening)


  • #1795
    ShineOn7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭ShineOn7


    owlbethere wrote: »
    they will have to act fast to implement a localised lockdown.


    Dublin as a whole county will never be a localised lockdown. Too much of the country's infrastructure is in it

    But if there was a huge outbreak in somewhere like, for example, Tallaght than I could see part of that area locked down. Much like Melbourne locked down an apartment block this week


  • #1796
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,461 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    Eod100 wrote: »
    I think Gardai will rightly be taking a stronger line than usual on this. Hopefully inspections means these scenes are prevented. And before anyone thinks anyone criticising is against craic or anything, not the case. Would love to be able to return to scenes like that safely but the point is we're not there yet. And things like this risk putting us back in our progress.

    I don't see what inspections can do to stop people gathering in the street.
    By all accounts from what I've heard from various bars, the garda enforcement is a PR exercise, they've gone in, asked what time the kitchen is closing and what time everyone will be gone by and that's it.

    Now if your blatantly taking the piss and not serving food they can threaten to put a bad word in for your license renewal in September


  • #1797
    tom1ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,142 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    nobody might have said the word panic but you sure as hell get a sense of it.

    We all know how easy it is for it to spike when appropriate measures aren't in place.

    You keep going on as if theres throngs of toursits milling around Dublin at the moment and thats just not the case.

    I'm in the city centre daily, you can spot the tourists a mile away, the Americans stand out more than others but being in town the last week there just isn't any around.

    So first off you mentioned panic no one else.

    I’m glad you can tell American tourists from locals and I suppose you can tell UK tourists from locals too. That’s great.
    But I’m gonna assume most people can’t and so could quite easily come into contact with them if they’re here.

    Speaking of which do we actually have any figures for UK and USA tourists coming into the country in the last couple of weeks. I presume that’s a readily accessible stat?


  • #1798
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,806 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    People do realise that pubs will be allowed fully open as normal soon anyways, right?

    Some people want restrictions until there is a vaccine.

    The reality is, our poor PPE in hospitals and care settings is a far greater risk than pubs.


  • #1799
    YellowBucket
    Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭YellowBucket


    I'm increasingly thinking that the only way we'll take any precautions is if there is an actual second wave. Hopefully one doesn't happen, but I don't think in this case you're going to get people to agree to put on their safety belts unless they see the car crash.

    So perhaps we'll be ok for the third-wave, but not the second, as we're just not going to take it seriously unless / until it happens.


  • #1800
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,690 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    To get into Hawaii, you have to have proof of a negative test no more than 72 hours old. Could something similar work in Europe?


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  • #1801
    tom1ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,142 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    YellowBucket wrote: »
    People have to get the message through their heads that the virus has not been eradicated - we just temporarily removed its source of fresh hosts i.e. by social distancing and slowed down the infection rate dramatically.

    To maintain that level, we have to take precautions and it's fairly clear we aren't.

    A large % of discussions I have had, even with people who I'd assume were more sensible has been either exceptionalism about how it's something that can only happen somewhere else, or a notion that it's been completely eradicated by 'all our hard work' and 'sure aren't we a great bunch altogether'.

    A false-victory and the complacency it leads to can be the very thing that causes you huge damage.

    Also people have to stop equating taking sensible levels of precautions with absolute lockdown. There's a huge difference.

    If people just followed the guidelines we'd be on track to being in a good position. Right now, we're gambling with throwing it all away.

    Tbh I’m not sure about that. I seriously think people can see how serious this is but are afraid to say anything for fear of being branded a lunatic or a scaremonger.
    We’ve had the same in this thread sure.


This discussion has been closed.
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