Were hunter gatherers lives the peak of human happiness?

artanevilla · 01-07-2020 11:58AM

I often dream of simpler times. Then I take my rose-tinted glasses off, and my real glasses, realize I'd be fúcked with my eyesight and am quite content in a world with lenses.

topper75 · 01-07-2020 12:59PM

Say my name wrote: »

Neanderthals though.

My forefathers just shagged them. Well, 3% of them did. Something different like.

topper75 · 01-07-2020 01:03PM

murpho999 wrote: »

I don't think life was good for them. Constant search for food, shelter problems, rival tribe wars and then at any moment you could get eaten by a dinosaur.

Plucked into the air by a teradactyl is not a nice way to go as shown in below scene from a documentary of the time .

Would make the 3.30 at Leopardstown more interesting. Side bet on which jockey gets taken out by the big eagle yoke.

The Tetrarch · 01-07-2020 01:27PM

_Brian wrote: »

I’d say the biggest contribution to their happiness was the lack of vegans and their rhetoric.

You forgot to mention the Greens.

chrissb8 · 01-07-2020 01:32PM

fatknacker wrote: »

It’s all well and good til you have an incredibly painful infection from a simple cut that goes septic, a neighbouring tribe keeps taking your friend’s scalps and a sabre tooth tiger eats your babies.

♪♪ Flintstones, meet the Flintstones ♪♪

Wibbs · 01-07-2020 01:40PM

artanevilla wrote: »

I often dream of simpler times. Then I take my rose-tinted glasses off, and my real glasses, realize I'd be fúcked with my eyesight and am quite content in a world with lenses.

Funny enough modern hunter gatherers rarely suffer from myopia. Something in our modern world seems to cause short sightedness. It's been suggested that modern people from the time they're toddlers view more close objects more consistently and in some this may cause myopia.

topper75 wrote: »

My forefathers just shagged them. Well, 3% of them did. Something different like.

Well your foremothers did, as the genes seem to go from Neandertal men to modern women. Maybe their guys were more of a draw for our women? Well they were significantly more physically powerful than modern human blokes so there's that. There isn't an MMA fighter alive that would last more than a few seconds up close and personal with one of those guys. Or male children produced had some genetic weaknesses because of our genetic differences and distance and didn't survive or were sub fertile.

And there would have been a fair bit of shagging for 3% to survive in our DNA down to today at least 30,000 years later. The frozen lad they found in the alps Otzi the iceman had higher Neandertal percentages(over double IIRC) than modern people because he was over 5000 years closer to when we got jiggy with each other. Even older modern Human DNA in Europe shows even higher percentages and longer sequences from them. One lad from Russia IIRC who is 30 odd 1000 years old had a great grandparent that was a full Neandertal. Funny enough they haven't yet found a Neandertal with our DNA in their mix. It seems to have helped us adapt to local environments as some of the genes involved are for immune responses.

mr_fegelien · 03-07-2020 02:29PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Funny enough modern hunter gatherers rarely suffer from myopia. Something in our modern world seems to cause short sightedness. It's been suggested that modern people from the time they're toddlers view more close objects more consistently and in some this may cause myopia.

Well your foremothers did, as the genes seem to go from Neandertal men to modern women. Maybe their guys were more of a draw for our women? Well they were significantly more physically powerful than modern human blokes so there's that. There isn't an MMA fighter alive that would last more than a few seconds up close and personal with one of those guys. Or male children produced had some genetic weaknesses because of our genetic differences and distance and didn't survive or were sub fertile.

And there would have been a fair bit of shagging for 3% to survive in our DNA down to today at least 30,000 years later. The frozen lad they found in the alps Otzi the iceman had higher Neandertal percentages(over double IIRC) than modern people because he was over 5000 years closer to when we got jiggy with each other. Even older modern Human DNA in Europe shows even higher percentages and longer sequences from them. One lad from Russia IIRC who is 30 odd 1000 years old had a great grandparent that was a full Neandertal. Funny enough they haven't yet found a Neandertal with our DNA in their mix. It seems to have helped us adapt to local environments as some of the genes involved are for immune responses.

You seem to know about neanderthals. Let me ask you this, is the lack of neanderthal DNA among black Sub-Saharan Africans the reason they have such different features (nappy hair, round nose) compared to all other races on earth?

4068ac1elhodqr · 03-07-2020 02:36PM

What about the Rh(Neg) folks, whom don't have any direct lineage to the rhesus monkey.
Might Nibiru's Anunnaki, as per ancient Summerian folklore, account for their introduction.

mr_fegelien · 03-07-2020 04:35PM

Savannah Lazy Gynecologist wrote: »

What about the Rh(Neg) folks, whom don't have any direct lineage to the rhesus monkey.
Might Nibiru's Anunnaki, as per ancient Summerian folklore, account for their introduction.

Isn't there a link between people with Rh - blood and alien abductions?

nthclare · 03-07-2020 06:17PM

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

Any early macks yet nthclare down yere way off the rocks?

There's a few at Dunlicky or Castle Point near Kilkee.

Although I'd say if you went out early in the morning around 5am with a light spinning rod and a toby you'd catch some of Liscannor pier...

Sometimes when I wake up early I'll go down to the pier and catch a few for breakfast.
I tried it in the day time or evening, never caught any. But for some reason before dawn I catch them off that pier...

Wibbs · 03-07-2020 06:20PM

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Isn't there a link between people with Rh - blood and alien abductions?

Unless insanity paranoia and an active imagination is linked with RH - blood.

mr_fegelien wrote: »

You seem to know about neanderthals. Let me ask you this, is the lack of neanderthal DNA among black Sub-Saharan Africans the reason they have such different features (nappy hair, round nose) compared to all other races on earth?

No. For a start those features are found in other populations on the planet who are genetically distinct(as much as modern humans are) from Africans. Papuans for one. Similar noses too and they have both Neandertal and Denisovan genes. About the highest of the latter on earth. Secondly not all sub Saharan Africans have very curly hair and noses vary all over the place. Neandertals had the biggest noses by far of any humans ever. As for their hair we don't know whether it was straight or curly or both. Some seem to have genes for lighter even red hair and paler skin, but the science of nailing down such things is remarkably inexact and full of supposition, though reconstructions that have as much to do with art as science would often have us believe otherwise.

4068ac1elhodqr · 03-07-2020 06:52PM

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Isn't there a link between people with Rh - blood and alien abductions?

Allegedly, one survey stated that 6%* of Americans reckon they've been abducted i.e. probed or used for a hybrid program, usually by the 'Greys'.

Most likely hypnagogic or predormital sleep paralysis after a Budweiser Export 6-pack, rather than a 'cosmic kidnap trouser romance'.

We the the Rh(Neg) {not from the monkey} *6%'ers (circa global population) are often smarter than you/your average Neanderthal knuckledraggers, with a range of additional skills (allegedly).

In ancient times called 'royal bloods' (note:nearly all the current batch of EngRoyals are O-RhNeg. Observers may have noticed too that red faced/fingered, and the not young: Charlie - strangely brushed off the COVID with little fuss.

Whereas younger healthier BAMEs are having a much worse time of it. Perhaps Wuhan's L4 Lab is a factor here, speculation of course one should say, but it might provide good material for a sci-fi novel.

Capt'n Midnight · 03-07-2020 06:58PM

murpho999 wrote: »

I don't think life was good for them. Constant search for food, shelter problems, rival tribe wars and then at any moment you could get eaten by a dinosaur.

Plucked into the air by a teradactyl is not a nice way to go as shown in below scene from a documentary of the time .

https://media1.giphy.com/media/3o7btPrZ2LcjasECPe/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47f19ddc3677e8540c114f162bfc151298b20b11ee&rid=giphy.gif

Plucked into the air by a teradactyl ?

Sorry to be pedantic but that never happened.

But we've faced some nasty critters in the past.

Today everything in Oz is trying to kill you.

But when modern humans arrived there were salt water crocs, and huge freshwater crocks and long legged fast running land crocs the size of sea crocs and venomous komodo dragons the size of long legged fast running land crocs. And marsupial lions and giant snakes like wonambi.

Only the salties survived

* It's actually a pteranodon

odyssey06 · 03-07-2020 07:00PM

I think DNA studies have indicated there is an as yet undiscovered (fossil) human species contemporary with Denisovans, Neanderthals etc...
It suggests that ancestors of modern West Africans interbred with a yet-undiscovered species of archaic human, similar to how ancient Europeans mated with Neanderthals, and Oceanic populations with Denisovans.
https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2020/02/17/still-undiscovered-ancient-human-species-left-ghost-dna-in-west-african-genomes/
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-51508616

If we knew the eventual fate of those other humans - assimilation \ extermination \ competition \ cooperation - etc it would certainly give us an idea about how our 'main line' human (homo sapiens) hunter gatherers behaved.

Lyan · 03-07-2020 07:02PM

Oh boy I wish I could live in constant fear of one of a multitude of hostile neighbouring communities raiding my clan to steal my wife and daughters and destroying everything I own before brutally executing me and my fellow men.

Wibbs · 03-07-2020 09:48PM

Savannah Lazy Gynecologist wrote: »

Allegedly, one survey stated that 6%* of Americans reckon they've been abducted i.e. probed or used for a hybrid program, usually by the 'Greys'.

Most likely hypnagogic or predormital sleep paralysis after a Budweiser Export 6-pack, rather than a 'cosmic kidnap trouser romance'.

We the the Rh(Neg) {not from the monkey} *6%'ers (circa global population) are often smarter than you/your average Neanderthal knuckledraggers, with a range of additional skills (allegedly).

I'm Rh neg and have high Neandertal admixture, this means I can skilfully drag my knuckles.

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

But we've faced some nasty critters in the past.

Today everything in Oz is trying to kill you.

But when modern humans arrived there were salt water crocs, and huge freshwater crocks and long legged fast running land crocs the size of sea crocs and venomous komodo dragons the size of long legged fast running land crocs. And marsupial lions and giant snakes like wonambi.

Only the salties survived

And the Native Aussies killed off the lot in the course of a few centuries for the most part. It's a big part of who we are; mass extinctions. Did the same in Europe and Asia and the Americas. You can track our movements out of Africa by the timing of the mass extinctions of large animals. Africa retained the most because the animals were long clued in on those funny little naked apes. Hell New Zealand was only discovered by the Maori around the 12th century and by the time Europeans got all of the giant flightless birds(Moas) were gone and the giant eagle whose name escapes(Harsts eagle?). It took only about a century for the Maori to do them in.

I love how your hippie dippy types who have inherited the old European ideal of the "noble savage" only for a more green environmental present who believe that native folks are "sooooo in touch with the land and shepherd their environment unlike us western savages" etc. The reality is very different and most of the time they were trying to shepherd the edible stuff off cliffs for dinner.

Risingshadoo · 03-07-2020 09:50PM

badabing106 wrote: »

That was the peak of happiness for humankind in my opinion

Humans were elite hunters and gatherers compelled
to thrive and survive in hunting gathering small communities.

The days anticipating and preparing for a successful hunt for the community, with all members of the community participating , and realising that dream, and celebrating together must be the highest high a human can have. What is the comparison today? There isn't anything close

Childcare, I here you say. No they didn't pay 2k a month to send them to little harvard, the community took turns to look after everyone else's children

There is no crime, no jealously over property or possessions.

The physical and mental wellbeing through excercise, the community, the bonds was at its peak in this epoch . All their thoughts had to be focused on the wellbeing of the community and honing their skills and enjoying the bliss of the next successful hunt

It was a simple and joyous life

Aye, but it would have been freezing in Ireland.

Doctors room ghost · 04-07-2020 08:15AM

nthclare wrote: »

There's a few at Dunlicky or Castle Point near Kilkee.

Although I'd say if you went out early in the morning around 5am with a light spinning rod and a toby you'd catch some of Liscannor pier...

Sometimes when I wake up early I'll go down to the pier and catch a few for breakfast.
I tried it in the day time or evening, never caught any. But for some reason before dawn I catch them off that pier...

You won’t beat a few fresh mackerel filleted and fried in a pan and a bit of proper butter,salt and pepper.throw in a cut of bread and a strong mug of tea and that’s as good as it gets.

nthclare · 04-07-2020 09:07AM

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

You won’t beat a few fresh mackerel filleted and fried in a pan and a bit of proper butter,salt and pepper.throw in a cut of bread and a strong mug of tea and that’s as good as it gets.

Absolutely,it's a treat in itself.
The best experience is if you had an outdoor stove or campfire and do it that way.

If I'm cooking fresh mackerel at home, I've a George foreman grill I plug into an extension lead and Cook them in the garden.
They stink out the house if you've no extractor.

I also cover them in sprigs of fresh rosemary from the garden.

odyssey06 · 04-07-2020 09:16AM

Speaking of mackeral...

There was a Japanese seafood based hunter-gatherer 'Jomon' society in BC times. The abundance of seafood meant that they could support villages. Without domesticated animals they would not have experienced smallpox, flus etc.
I think they were the first culture to develop pottery. There is evidence of continuity in the pottery patterns over centuries.
There seemed to be few predators of humans in Japan (v Africa) and there is little evidence of warfare in the region (no defensive structures which there would be in Ireland at the time). Probably theirs was one of the best existences until modern times.
* I may not have all the details right, it was from a 15 minutes BBC podcast in "A History of the World in 100 Objects".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C5%8Dmon_period

I think the American pacific northwest evolved a similar culture but with more predators to worry about and inter-tribal conflict.

Were hunter gatherers lives the peak of human happiness?

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