Were hunter gatherers lives the peak of human happiness?

badabing106

That was the peak of happiness for humankind in my opinion

Humans were elite hunters and gatherers compelled
to thrive and survive in hunting gathering small communities.

The days anticipating and preparing for a successful hunt for the community, with all members of the community participating , and realising that dream, and celebrating together must be the highest high a human can have. What is the comparison today? There isn't anything close

Childcare, I here you say. No they didn't pay 2k a month to send them to little harvard, the community took turns to look after everyone else's children

There is no crime, no jealously over property or possessions.

The physical and mental wellbeing through excercise, the community, the bonds was at its peak in this epoch . All their thoughts had to be focused on the wellbeing of the community and honing their skills and enjoying the bliss of the next successful hunt

It was a simple and joyous life

Arghus

Yeah, constant fear and struggle and death - if you were lucky - by thirty.

893bet

Well **** me tommy, what have you been reading?

unhappys10

Nah, I'd be happier winning the euro millions and retiring to my very own desert island to get away from all you fcuks.

They didn't have the internet though..

jimwallace197

badabing106 wrote: »

That was the peak of happiness for humankind in my opinion

Humans were elite hunters and gatherers designed
to thrive and and survive in hunting gathering small communities.

The days anticipating and preparing for a successful hunt for the community, with all members of the community participating , and realising that dream, and celebrating together must be the highest high a human can have. What is the comparison today? There isn't anything close

Childcare, I here you say. No they didn't pay 2k a month to send them to little harvard, the community took turns to look after everyone else's children

There is no crime, no jealously over property or possessions.

The physical and mental wellbeing through excercise, the community, the bonds was at its peak in this epoch . All their thoughts had to be focused on the wellbeing of the community and honing their skills and enjoying the bliss of the next successful hunt

It was a simple and joyous life

Are you kidding me, I doubt you or I would have lasted more than a couple of days

badabing106

Arghus wrote: »

Yeah, constant fear and struggle and death, if you were lucky, by thirty.

That was the complete opposite of their mentality. They were physically and mentally built to live that lifestyle, as are you

buried

I'd say the only happy ones back then were the shaman's.

At least they had tunes and a bit of the auld drugs.

s1ippy

Yep, definitely.

One eyed Jack

badabing106 wrote: »

That was the peak of happiness for humankind in my opinion

Humans were elite hunters and gatherers designed...

I got as far as “Humans... designed”.

Once I got over that and read the rest of it, I knew I should have stopped at “Humans... designed”.

badabing106

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I got as far as “Humans... designed”.

Once I got over that and read the rest of it, I knew I should have stopped at “Humans... designed”.

I felt it was the wrong word also. What is a better word? Compelled?

corner of hells

badabing106 wrote: »

That was the peak of happiness for humankind in my opinion

Humans were elite hunters and gatherers designed
to thrive and and survive in hunting gathering small communities.

The days anticipating and preparing for a successful hunt for the community, with all members of the community participating , and realising that dream, and celebrating together must be the highest high a human can have. What is the comparison today? There isn't anything close

Childcare, I here you say. No they didn't pay 2k a month to send them to little harvard, the community took turns to look after everyone else's children

There is no crime, no jealously over property or possessions.

The physical and mental wellbeing through excercise, the community, the bonds was at its peak in this epoch . All their thoughts had to be focused on the wellbeing of the community and honing their skills and enjoying the bliss of the next successful hunt

It was a simple and joyous life

Sorta like modern day drug addict shop lifters.

YFlyer

Wibbs I believe extensively wrote about this topic.

odyssey06

Preferable to about 90 % of the existences that came after it.
Seems like a much healthier life than say that of an 18th century peasant or serf.

But then, there were a lot more peasants.

It was not the peak but it was a local maximum. There was violence raids anger ... a stranger would likely be attacked or assaulted. Our capacity for such things evolved in hunter gatherer state.

badabing106

jimwallace197 wrote: »

Are you kidding me, I doubt you or I would have lasted more than a couple of days

You or I would not, but I think they would have been happier living their lives with the skills they would have had to learn

Allthough, there are some hunter gatherers tribes still in pockets around the globe

If you took the happiness index chart with them versus people living in cities

What do you think the result would be?
I think they would be alot more content. In fact I would go as far as say I would guarantee it

Food, shelter warmth. That is pure happiness to them!

4068ac1elhodqr

Depends on the environment, in the arse of some Amazon rainforest, tropical swamp, barren bush or antartic: no thanks.

However an Native American Indian, with mixed tundra, open grassy plains and perhaps a nearby beach or lake to dip in: no so bad.
Spend the day chasing buffalo, picking berries, medicinal plants. Then back for a camp fire sing-song, banging drums/Pocahontas, followed by puff of the smoke and yarns about the ancestors, along with free horoscope from the elders, all under starlit skies.

Then Europop man arrives, takes land and animals, installs a 7-11 convenience store which in turn, makes everyone raging alchoholics, void of purpose.

suicide_circus

Less self indulgent neuroses, obesity and dental cavities but more dingos eating your baby.

buried

Do not underestimate the power of indoor plumbing. I like to do a bit of half bushcraft outdoors camping myself, but to do it all the time? Nah man, It's not until you lose something like indoor plumbing or hot water on tap you start to realise the peak of human happiness is right now. Go a week or two without plumbing, you'll understand.

odyssey06

suicide_circus wrote: »

Less self indulgent neuroses, obesity and dental cavities but more dingos eating your baby.

I see your dingos and raise you a short faced running bear or a haasts eagle.
Want to see an eagle as big as a lion?
Sounds cool... wait what? Swoop.. thump... thud.

badabing106

buried wrote: »

Do not underestimate the power of indoor plumbing. I like to do a bit of half bushcraft outdoors camping myself, but to do it all the time? Nah man, It's not until you lose something like indoor plumbing or hot water on tap you start to realise the peak of human happiness is right now. Go a week or two without plumbing, you'll understand.

But hunter gatherers didn't have that luxury to lose.

They lived in complete simplicity. Hunt. Gather. Celebrate. Shelter. Fire. Eat


People today have 100 needless things to worry about. How many insurances are there?

Feisar

buried wrote: »

Do not underestimate the power of indoor plumbing. I like to do a bit of half bushcraft outdoors camping myself, but to do it all the time? Nah man, It's not until you lose something like indoor plumbing or hot water on tap you start to realise the peak of human happiness is right now. Go a week or two without plumbing, you'll understand.

Agreed, when yer dicking about with a knife, feather sticks and a fire steel to get a fire going for a cuppa you start to realise how handy we have it.

Arghus

badabing106 wrote: »

But hunter gatherers didn't have that luxury to lose.

They lived in complete simplicity. Hunt. Gather. Celebrate. Shelter. Fire. Eat


People today have 100 needless things to worry about. How many insurances are there?

I guess in some ways their worries were less numerous, but they certainly weren't less acute. It's a handy luxury to be able to fret about insurance, rather than the elemental concern of will I survive the day? Or will this tiny splinter in my foot become infected and kill me?

Sure, you could always give the lifestyle a lash there for year. Head off into the wilderness and see how you get on.

odyssey06

Feisar wrote: »

Agreed, when yer dicking about with a knife, feather sticks and a fire steel to get a fire going for a cuppa you start to realise how handy we have it.

True it is a life of ease and contentment but as a peak experience a hunter gatherer tracking and killing prey... bringing home the bacon to the tribe... probably trumps anything today in sports... art... work etc.

So imo their lives were not the peak but they probably experienced more peaks of happiness (and lows) than todays average people. It is what we were wired for.

Feisar

Arghus wrote: »

I guess in some ways their worries were less numerous, but they certainly weren't less acute. It's a handy luxury to be able to fret about insurance, rather than the elemental concern of will I survive the day? Or will this tiny splinter in my foot become infected and kill me?

Sure, you could always give the lifestyle a lash there for year. Head off into the wilderness and see how you get on.

There’s a book called Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers and one of it’s premises is that we are not designed for the constant style of stress the modern world brings. Rather, the short sharp sabertooth attack is what we evolved to deal with. Adrenaline dump, fight/flight. Dead or back to the campfire.

suicide_circus

odyssey06 wrote: »

I see your dingos and raise you a short faced running bear or a haasts eagle.
Want to see an eagle as big as a lion?
Sounds cool... wait what? Swoop.. thump... thud.

NOooooooo!!!!

badabing106

Arghus wrote: »

I guess in some ways their worries were less numerous, but they certainly weren't less acute. It's a handy luxury to be able to fret about insurance, rather than the elemental concern of will I survive the day? Or will this tiny splinter in my foot become infected and kill me?

Sure, you could always give the lifestyle a lash there for year. Head off into the wilderness and see how you get on.

I am definitely not advocating that lifestyle nowadays!

I firmly believe people were happier back then no matter the hardships, that was life.. The highs were more frequent and alot higher and longer lasting than you would get in a modern society

They had 5 or 6 things that could make them unhappy, not 100 things

c.p.w.g.w

Arghus wrote: »

Yeah, constant fear and struggle and death - if you were lucky - by thirty.

Apparently, the fact that those aren't issues anymore is the reason for things like social anxiety...

Aurelian

The majority of the hunter gatherer diet came from the women left at home minding the kids and gathering to feed them. The fathers off hunting didn't contribute as much. So, being a hunter is probably the modern equivalent of going off to play a match with the lads and leaving the wife at home to do all the work.

buried

badabing106 wrote: »

But hunter gatherers didn't have that luxury to lose.

They lived in complete simplicity. Hunt. Gather. Celebrate. Shelter. Fire. Eat


People today have 100 needless things to worry about. How many insurances are there?

But that's the most simplistic way of looking at how they lived. You can't say those six things were the absolute daily formula those people had to go through. They still got sick, they still had to find and war over resources, they still had to go through a whole raft of serious problems that you don't have to even think about.
I mean, you say 'hunt' like everytime it would have been a pleasure and these boys would get a definite result at the end of it. There wouldn't have been a sure fire result everytime they went out to do that so there was no insurance there either. It would have been a gigantic pain in the arse,because your very life and those back at the circle would have totally depended upon it.

no you're grand thanks

badabing106

buried wrote: »

But that's the most simplistic way of looking at how they lived. You can't say those six things were the absolute daily formula those people had to go through. They still got sick, they still had to find and war over resources, they still had to go through a whole raft of serious problems that you don't have to even think about.
I mean, you say 'hunt' like everytime it would have been a pleasure and these boys would get a definite result at the end of it. There wouldn't have been a sure fire result everytime they went out to do that so there was no insurance there either. It would have been a gigantic pain in the arse,because your very life and those back at the circle would have totally depended upon it.

I'm not saying it was easy, far from it. A constant struggle. The rewards though!

Their goals and aspirations were simple

When you achieve those goals, that is a kind of bliss that most people' will never know

Arghus

badabing106 wrote: »

They had 5 or 6 things that could make them unhappy, not 100 things

And about a 1000 things that could kill them.

Who was the last woman you knew who died in childbirth?

buried

badabing106 wrote: »

I'm not saying it was easy

Their goals and aspirations were simple

But sure so are mine, so are a lot of peoples today, we just want to get by and hopefully not get sick anytime soon, and if we do hopefully we will get looked after and there is a good chance we will, with indoor plumbing too.

Arghus

buried wrote: »

But sure so are mine, so are a lot of peoples today, we just want to get by and hopefully not get sick anytime soon, and if we do hopefully we will get looked after and there is a good chance we will, with indoor plumbing too.

And a bit of the auld drugs, from time to time.

Greyfox

badabing106 wrote: »

That was the peak of happiness for humankind in my opinion..

There is no crime, no jealously over property or possessions.

Your only saying that because you have no idea what life was like back then. Your forgetting about the people that starved to death because they couldn't find food or froze to death during winter. Also there was no internet, tv, films, computer games and life would be a load of sh*te without those things. I'd rather live in a world where I know where my next meal comes from. Also your deluded if you think there was no crime. If your missing out on social interactions join a club.

pgj2015

They had awful punishments in the past, they wouldn't just kill you they would bury you alive and I wont even mention what else. I wonder why they were so vicious back then, animals wouldn't act the way they did.

nthclare

They probably knew no better and were content with their lot.
It sounds ok to someone like myself who likes roughing it up now and again and still have that Hunter gathering instinct.

Now and again I go camping and fishing etc, have enough water and some treat's.
But it's great to get in touch with my ferral side.
It keeps me grounded and gives me a break from modern living etc

I love the outdoors and like survival skills and bushcraft etc.
As a botanist, horticurist and skillful fisherman I can live for a few days on the hunt.
Especially by the coast.

It's not for everyone, but I love it more than sitting in a modern apartment and plastic and microchips everywhere...

During the covid lockdown I fished the local lake and river and caught fish easily enough...

Gregor Samsa

badabing106 wrote: »

There is no crime, no jealously over property or possessions.

You can be sure that as soon as one person was chewing on a tasty antelope hoof, someone else wanted that antelope hoof.

badabing106

Greyfox wrote: »

Your only saying that because you have no idea what life was like back then. Your forgetting about the people that starved to death because they couldn't find food or froze to death during winter. Also there was no internet, tv, films, computer games and life would be a load of sh*te without those things. I'd rather live in a world where I know where my next meal comes from. Also your deluded if you think there was no crime. If your missing out on social interactions join a club.

Internet film computers would not have enchanced their life. How would it?their life was about living life and hunting and enjoying and celebrating the fruits of their kill, and preparing for the next season

I don't think crime was even a word back in those times! The community was one, and needed to be!

Say my name

Neanderthals though.

odyssey06

badabing106 wrote: »

Internet film computers would not have enchanced their life. How would it?their life was about living life and hunting and enjoying and celebrating the fruits of their kill, and preparing for the next season
I don't think crime was even a word back in those times! The community was one, and needed to be!

You are forgetting what would have happened when different communities met. Murder assault fire raids... fear of outsiders... armed hunters... kill other hunters... take their women.

And the jealousy that comes within groups.

Anger, hatred, fear , mistrust, jealousy didnt start with agriculture. Thinking about words like crimes is just semantics - look deeper at the emotions that form part of human nature.

Doctors room ghost

They died young but they had great teeth on them.there was skeletons dug up and teeth on them as good as the day one.
Sure a good diet and no sugars stuff like we have now.

Doctors room ghost

nthclare wrote: »

They probably knew no better and were content with their lot.
It sounds ok to someone like myself who likes roughing it up now and again and still have that Hunter gathering instinct.

Now and again I go camping and fishing etc, have enough water and some treat's.
But it's great to get in touch with my ferral side.
It keeps me grounded and gives me a break from modern living etc

I love the outdoors and like survival skills and bushcraft etc.
As a botanist, horticurist and skillful fisherman I can live for a few days on the hunt.
Especially by the coast.

It's not for everyone, but I love it more than sitting in a modern apartment and plastic and microchips everywhere...

During the covid lockdown I fished the local lake and river and caught fish easily enough...

Any early macks yet nthclare down yere way off the rocks?

odyssey06

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

They died young but they had great teeth on them.there was skeletons dug up and teeth on them as good as the day one.
Sure a good diet and no sugars stuff like we have now.

A lot died young but that was mostly due to infant mortality... as it was for peasants until the late 19th century. Their height suggests they ate better than most succeeding generations until the 20th century.

If you reached age 15 though you could expect to live to your 50s was one stat I found on google for the era.

Kylta

buried wrote: »

But that's the most simplistic way of looking at how they lived. You can't say those six things were the absolute daily formula those people had to go through. They still got sick, they still had to find and war over resources, they still had to go through a whole raft of serious problems that you don't have to even think about.
I mean, you say 'hunt' like everytime it would have been a pleasure and these boys would get a definite result at the end of it. There wouldn't have been a sure fire result everytime they went out to do that so there was no insurance there either. It would have been a gigantic pain in the arse,because your very life and those back at the circle would have totally depended upon it.

I think I would've hack it back then, I mean if you fell out with the neighbour we'll you just hacked him up for dinner. And since i've a lazy streak I would've hack up all the neighbours and live like a king. Hopefully with my charisma I could join another tribe and hack me some more new neighbours.

I wonder was their serial killers back then?

GreyEagle

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

You can be sure that as soon as one person was chewing on a tasty antelope hoof, someone else wanted that antelope hoof.

I'd say if you were chewing antelope hoof the lads wouldn't bother you at all. They would be enjoying the steaks.

fatknacker

It’s all well and good til you have an incredibly painful infection from a simple cut that goes septic, a neighbouring tribe keeps taking your friend’s scalps and a sabre tooth tiger eats your babies.

Gregor Samsa

GreyEagle wrote: »

I'd say if you were chewing antelope hoof the lads wouldn't bother you at all. They would be enjoying the steaks.

Man, you haven’t lived ‘till you’ve sucked the marrow out of a juicy hoof from an antelope you strangled with your bare hands.

bb1234567

Go to sub saharan Africa then. Millions there still living the dream

Greyfox

badabing106 wrote: »

Internet film computers would not have enchanced their life. How would it?their life was about living life and hunting and enjoying and celebrating the fruits of their kill, and preparing for the next season

I don't think crime was even a word back in those times! The community was one, and needed to be!

It would of, great stories enrich everybody's life. Living life involves doing things you enjoy and these days we have more time for fun then back then, if you put the effort in you could also be "living life" now. Crime was always around, even back then and if someone killed you back then they had a far better chance of getting away with it.

4068ac1elhodqr

The nomadic Mongolians might have the right idea, they simply pack up their yurts and pop it on a donkey when they fancy a change of scenery in their huge open lands.
Some are offered fully stocked static houses, but most express it's a burden to own so much material goods, and prefer the freedom they enjoy instead.