General Election and Government Formation Megathread (see post #1)

seamus · 01-07-2020 10:30am

elperello wrote: »

I don't see why she wouldn't travel to the North after all they are an all - Ireland party.

Complete disregard not only for social distancing, but also for the health advice in terms of gatherings, funerals in particular.

So much for the party of "change", when they've proven themselves willing to completely ignore the rules because they only apply to the little people.

Whatever about Adams; McDonald and Doherty making the trip up North for a funeral is unacceptable. Michelle O'Neill was down in Dublin at the convention centre on Saturday and then up shaking hands and doing group selfies at a funeral yesterday. Putting the entire Dáil at risk with their behaviour.

All being defended by the same bots who lost their mind when Leo went and met two mates in the park.

No doubt we will hear some Sinn Fein TD in short order standing up in the Dáil, taking shots at the Government about people not being able to bury their loved ones and having to do funerals over Zoom.

They're hypocrites and always have been.

eagle eye · 01-07-2020 3:54pm

seamus wrote:

They're hypocrites and always have been.

I'm no fan of SF but your whole post is crap and your hate for them shines through brightly. At least hold it together a bit of you want to make an argument for it against something.
The whole island is in great I'd shape as far as Covid-19 is concerned. Use some sanitiser after shaking hands and you'll be fine.
This isn't a big deal just because somebody crossed into another country.
The current government is full of idiots, and I'm not saying SF are any better, and they're going to open the airports with open arms welcoming everybody in and telling them they have to self-isolate when they know it's not going to happen. That's what you should be concerned about as regards covid-19.
Varadkar is clueless, I honestly don't know how he became a doctor. Martin cannot be trusted. Mary Lou is unproven but I'm pretty confident she wouldn't be any better than the two others mentioned before her.
We need change in this country but not socialist or left wing, we need a new centre party with new people who haven't already been corrupted.

seamus · 01-07-2020 4:16pm

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm no fan of SF but your whole post is crap and your hate for them shines through brightly

I'd love to know what parts of my post are "crap".

I don't hate Sinn Féin. I have many times genuinely held out hope that they could be the new politics that this country so sorely needs. More fool me, but I thought that there were seeds of it earlier this year. They had scored such a decisive victory, were they going to build on it? Were they going to distance themselves from their terrorist past, clean house, practice clean, honest, upfront, politics?

And the answer is no, clearly. No change at all, same old deification of violent terrorists. Flaunting the rules when it suits them, no respect for the laws of the country(ies) they're supposed to be serving, no respect for the people who voted for them.

Sinn Féin are no more interested in change than FG are. When the criticism comes, there's no appetite for contrition or self-reflection. Elected TDs glorifying terrorism get a pass, racism and sexism ignored when the candidate is popular, flaunting of public health rules ignored and defended.

I don't hate them. I'm disappointed, and ultimately irritated. They constantly claim to be different, despite being the exact same. And I keep allowing myself to give them the benefit of the doubt.

elperello · 01-07-2020 8:39pm

beggars_bush wrote: »

Foreign travel isn't advised

????

Hermy wrote: »

Perhaps it's the event rather than the location that's the issue.

Event is another issue.

seamus wrote: »

Complete disregard not only for social distancing, but also for the health advice in terms of gatherings, funerals in particular.

So much for the party of "change", when they've proven themselves willing to completely ignore the rules because they only apply to the little people.

Whatever about Adams; McDonald and Doherty making the trip up North for a funeral is unacceptable. Michelle O'Neill was down in Dublin at the convention centre on Saturday and then up shaking hands and doing group selfies at a funeral yesterday. Putting the entire Dáil at risk with their behaviour.

All being defended by the same bots who lost their mind when Leo went and met two mates in the park.

No doubt we will hear some Sinn Fein TD in short order standing up in the Dáil, taking shots at the Government about people not being able to bury their loved ones and having to do funerals over Zoom.

They're hypocrites and always have been.

I was only referring to her travelling to the North.

I'm not defending any breaches of Covid protocol at the funeral only the right of any citizen to travel the 32 counties.

Arghus · 01-07-2020 8:44pm

They really are quite incredible at times. Saw footage of Michelle O' Néill on TV earlier, saying that she was totally satisfied that she obeyed all rules and regulations - despite there being photos of her, arms around the shoulder, with people from yesterday, blatantly breaking those rules - and then instantly afterwards, without any sense of irony or shame saying people still had to follow all the rules "because we're not out the woods yet". Spoke with what sounded like total sincerity. Next level brass neck.

Pearce Doherty then being interviewed on the news claiming that every protocol was followed and everyone wore masks - all overlaid with footage of practically nobody, including himself, wearing masks. When repeatedly asked about the size of the crowd in the cemetery itself, acted like the question hadn't been asked and repeated the line about the limited number of people allowed to stand in the cortege, which was a totally different issue.

I'm not a dyed in the wool SF hater and I don't believe that this is a political crisis of earth shattering proportions - a good bit of it is just simply their enemies relishing a chance to take them down a peg or two, but I think the whole thing is quite indicative of their tendencies: fundamentally, they do what they like and never feel like they have to apologise or be held to account.

Bass Reeves · 01-07-2020 11:14pm

Have FF TD's the biggest ego's. After the Data Calleary episode on Saturday evening now we have the Michael Moynihan. It was not enough that there are three Ministers in Cork and two from FF he taught he was entitled to a junior post after not getting the bid he said

"He has insulted me and my community. I have worked so hard for the party over the last nine years; took a lot of s*** for him. Very, very cross,"

I suppose after 10 years not being in power they taught that every FF TD was entitled to a state car.

SF fair play put both feet in it. Below is the photo, Pearse us obviously wearing a mask and observing the two meter rule as are the M&M's. I taught an ould lad line Gerry and one or two more should still be cocooning

Bass Reeves · 01-07-2020 11:16pm

Have FF TD's the biggest ego's. After the Data Calleary episode on Saturday evening now we have the Michael Moynihan. It was not enough that there are three Ministers in Cork and two from FF he taught he was entitled to a junior post after not getting the bid he said

"He has insulted me and my community. I have worked so hard for the party over the last nine years; took a lot of s*** for him. Very, very cross,"

I suppose after 10 years not being in power they taught that every FF TD was entitled to a state car.

SF fair play put both feet in it. Below is the photo, Pearse us obviously wearing a mask and observing the two meter rule as are the M&M's. I taught an ould lad line Gerry and one or two more should still be cocooning

awec · 01-07-2020 11:59pm

It's actually mad how they're airing this stuff in public, I'm sure Martin is seething.

"Insulted my community" is pure muck.

devnull · 02-07-2020 12:08am

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Have FF TD's the biggest ego's. After the Data Calleary episode on Saturday evening now we have the Michael Moynihan. It was not enough that there are three Ministers in Cork and two from FF he taught he was entitled to a junior post after not getting the bid he said

"He has insulted me and my community. I have worked so hard for the party over the last nine years; took a lot of s*** for him. Very, very cross,"

I suppose after 10 years not being in power they taught that every FF TD was entitled to a state car.

Ideally you want a politician to focus on things in this order
1. Country
2. Party
3. Self

However the trouble with FF has always been for many of them its
1. Self.
2. Party.
3. Country

BonnieSituation · 02-07-2020 12:38am

It's amateur hour.

This is exactly why I thought FG were mad to go into coalition with then. That being said, if they're this hard done by on day 5 of the coalition, this isn't gonna last all the way to even the first switcheroo.

Ivefoundgod · 02-07-2020 1:02am

I get the impression that Micheal isn't all that popular within some sections of FF and this just highlights this. To be honest I think Callearys tantrum was poor form but at least he is a well known and promimnent figure within FF and in the national media. I've never even heard of Moynihan so the fact he's throwing the toys out is a bit laughable to me. He has no profile, why would he expect a ministerial role?

I suspect this will confirm many people suspicions (and i include myself to be upfront) that FF haven't changed. It seems clear that many of them still think in the old FF way which to be fair to FG they never give that impression of needing ministerial roles for validation or to bring home the bacon for their constituents.

Personally i think this just makes it more and more likely that Micheal steps away after his two years and FG are seen as the stable influence going forward with FF seeing a further decline in the next GE as SF move into their role as opposition to FG. Still think it'll be some variation of FG/GP/FF/LAB maybe SDs in the next government. I don't see SF repeating their success of 2020 again personally.

eagle eye · 02-07-2020 7:02am

I'm no fan of any political party in this country but to say that a party who let the Children's hospital fiasco happen, let a housing crisis get out of control, decided to celebrate the black and tans, let in Italian rugby fans, let back skiers with no self-isolation and let thousands off to Cheltenham could ever be considered a steady influence is laughable.

markodaly · 02-07-2020 8:17am

BonnieSituation wrote: »

It's amateur hour.

This is exactly why I thought FG were mad to go into coalition with then. That being said, if they're this hard done by on day 5 of the coalition, this isn't gonna last all the way to even the first switcheroo.

I must say, the last 48 hours have been good for FG.

We have on one side old FF clientism being bared for all to see, topping it off last night with Michael Moynihan less than civil words about being overlooked for a job.

Then we have SF TD's all across the country, going on a jolly to a funeral of a terrorist, and ignoring all social distancing guidelines in the process.

Some may be having buyers remorse not voting in more numbers for FG after the last days showing.

oceanman · 02-07-2020 8:39am

Ivefoundgod wrote: »

I get the impression that Micheal isn't all that popular within some sections of FF and this just highlights this. To be honest I think Callearys tantrum was poor form but at least he is a well known and promimnent figure within FF and in the national media. I've never even heard of Moynihan so the fact he's throwing the toys out is a bit laughable to me. He has no profile, why would he expect a ministerial role?

I suspect this will confirm many people suspicions (and i include myself to be upfront) that FF haven't changed. It seems clear that many of them still think in the old FF way which to be fair to FG they never give that impression of needing ministerial roles for validation or to bring home the bacon for their constituents.

Personally i think this just makes it more and more likely that Micheal steps away after his two years and FG are seen as the stable influence going forward with FF seeing a further decline in the next GE as SF move into their role as opposition to FG. Still think it'll be some variation of FG/GP/FF/LAB maybe SDs in the next government. I don't see SF repeating their success of 2020 again personally.

i would say as the main opposition party sf will most definitely repeat their success of 2020, give it another four years and a lot of voter fatigue with have set in with this cobbled together government.

Wanderer78 · 02-07-2020 8:42am

eagle eye wrote:

I'm no fan of any political party in this country but to say that a party who let the Children's hospital fiasco happen, let a housing crisis get out of control, decided to celebrate the black and tans, let in Italian rugby fans, let back skiers with no self-isolation and let thousands off to Cheltenham could ever be considered a steady influence is laughable.

FFG will probably always play a significant role in government formation, we re not exactly fans of change in this country

eagle eye · 02-07-2020 8:56am

Wanderer78 wrote:

FFG will probably always play a significant role in government formation, we re not exactly fans of change in this country

Well if we had a decent party to vote for it might change.

Ivefoundgod · 02-07-2020 9:48am

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm no fan of any political party in this country but to say that a party who let the Children's hospital fiasco happen, let a housing crisis get out of control, decided to celebrate the black and tans, let in Italian rugby fans, let back skiers with no self-isolation and let thousands off to Cheltenham could ever be considered a steady influence is laughable.

You’re entitled to your opinion but you’ve made sweeping statements on this thread before based on nothing other than your own opinion and this is another one. The fact is FG returned 35 seats and 20.86% of the vote in what was seen as a very poor performance so there is clearly a percentage of the population who do believe FG are a stable and reliable party. Many others think of FF the same way. I’m speculating on what I think might happen, I’m not saying it will. You might not agree with me but thankfully you don’t actually speak for the population of Ireland.

Bass Reeves · 02-07-2020 10:39am

eagle eye wrote: »

Well if we had a decent party to vote for it might change.

How many more parties do you want. We have FG, FF, SF, Greens Lab, SD,'s PBP, Solidarity, Aontu, Ind FF, Healy Rae's

And you want another decent party.

Brendan Kennelly the poet said his father view on democracy was
''if there was no party or person on a ballot paper who you were willing to vote for you had a democratic responsibility to seen a nomination for election yourself ''

It idealistic crap to be apportioning blame without being willing to create solution's

salmocab · 02-07-2020 11:02am

eagle eye wrote: »

Well if we had a decent party to vote for it might change.

The sort of people who are involved in politics generally join quite young in college. To setup something big enough to challenge is I would think almost impossible.

Water John · 02-07-2020 11:12am

Michael Moynihan is the heavy set fellow always sitting behind MM. Was of the impression that he was close to MM and did a lot of heavy lifting for him, in the background. A lot of people seem to think they are someway, entitled, to positions.
EK was never popular with a lot of FG either. You'll always hear internal grumbling, they can be right then when the leader is shafted.

ELM327 · 02-07-2020 11:33am

eagle eye wrote: »

Well if we had a decent party to vote for it might change.

Yes. And that party does not exist.

Wanderer78 · 02-07-2020 11:33am

Bass Reeves wrote: »

How many more parties do you want. We have FG, FF, SF, Greens Lab, SD,'s PBP, Solidarity, Aontu, Ind FF, Healy Rae's

And you want another decent party.

Brendan Kennelly the poet said his father view on democracy was
''if there was no party or person on a ballot paper who you were willing to vote for you had a democratic responsibility to seen a nomination for election yourself ''

It idealistic crap to be apportioning blame without being willing to create solution's

i wouldnt be able to do it

Itssoeasy · 02-07-2020 1:04pm

Ivefoundgod wrote: »

I get the impression that Micheal isn't all that popular within some sections of FF and this just highlights this. To be honest I think Callearys tantrum was poor form but at least he is a well known and promimnent figure within FF and in the national media. I've never even heard of Moynihan so the fact he's throwing the toys out is a bit laughable to me. He has no profile, why would he expect a ministerial role?

I suspect this will confirm many people suspicions (and i include myself to be upfront) that FF haven't changed. It seems clear that many of them still think in the old FF way which to be fair to FG they never give that impression of needing ministerial roles for validation or to bring home the bacon for their constituents.

Personally i think this just makes it more and more likely that Micheal steps away after his two years and FG are seen as the stable influence going forward with FF seeing a further decline in the next GE as SF move into their role as opposition to FG. Still think it'll be some variation of FG/GP/FF/LAB maybe SDs in the next government. I don't see SF repeating their success of 2020 again personally.

I get the impression that MM doesn't care who in FF he pisses off because in two years he'll have done his time as Taoiseach. Now, I know the name of Michael Moynihan but if what I've been told MM is loyal to people in cork but including people like ken o Flynn there's no love lost at ALL. I will say I can understand dara calleary being annoyed but maybe go about it a different way, but that's easy for me to say with the benefit of distance and hindsight.

Hurrache · 02-07-2020 1:08pm

It's really getting ridiculous. I actually initially thought this was a spoof account due to the amount of posts from random people saying they're disappointed not to be a minister for the craic. FF really haven't moved on have they.

https://twitter.com/willieodeaLIVE/status/1278640224655085568

awec · 02-07-2020 1:33pm

Any chance of a FF leadership contest in the near future?

FG and GP can just sit back and watch them destroy themselves at the moment. Egos everywhere!

salmocab · 02-07-2020 1:59pm

I’m not well versed on this bit I presume that FF picked their own ministers same for FG and the Greens. The actual posts decided in the negotiations?
Willie is presumably being pretty disingenuous saying MM didn’t pick any of the 3 from Limerick.
I think we’re going to have a huge amount of infighting from the 3 parties particularly green and FF.

devnull · 02-07-2020 2:29pm

awec wrote: »

Any chance of a FF leadership contest in the near future?

FG and GP can just sit back and watch them destroy themselves at the moment. Egos everywhere!

It's hardly news though really, this is what FF have always been like, the trouble is that the Irish electorate in general have short memories, if they didn't have short memories, after what FF stood for last time, they would not have voted for them. But people just forget these things and wonder why it turns out so bad.

All of those complaining have been part of the party in power under Ahern and Cowen and have shown that despite the years of being in opposition, they have not changed one little iota and that self interest is far more important than anything else just like it was back then.

If FF was serious about change, it would have kicked the likes of these three out long ago. But instead the moment they get back into Government they are up to their usual tricks and the sad thing is that many people in this country were gullible enough to believe they had changed.

Itssoeasy · 02-07-2020 4:03pm

salmocab wrote: »

I’m not well versed on this bit I presume that FF picked their own ministers same for FG and the Greens. The actual posts decided in the negotiations?
Willie is presumably being pretty disingenuous saying MM didn’t pick any of the 3 from Limerick.
I think we’re going to have a huge amount of infighting from the 3 parties particularly green and FF.

I don't know for sure but from what I can gather the ministers from FG and the greens were picked by the party leader in consultation with MM. So if FF TDs have an issue then I assume they know where the Taoiseachs office is in government buildings.

I mean it's not even a week and the rumblings from FF TDs isn't a good look.

salmocab · 02-07-2020 4:15pm

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I don't know for sure but from what I can gather the ministers from FG and the greens were picked by the party leader in consultation with MM. So if FF TDs have an issue then I assume they know where the Taoiseachs office is in government buildings.

I mean it's not even a week and the rumblings from FF TDs isn't a good look.

Yeah I’m sure it was all part of the negotiation but in reality I doubt MM has any real say above the FF candidates. FG and the greens could presumably pick who they wanted. It’s why the country looks unbalanced as there was not enough picks to get geographical.
I don’t buy into that stuff anyway, if there was a minister in Limerick it breaks up the Kerry to Donegal thing I’ve heard and seen people moaning about but would that really mean the people of Mayo would have been happy or better off?

L1011 · 02-07-2020 5:00pm

It seems that basically every FF TD who has served at least a full term is now complaining about not getting a ministry/junior ministry

It'd be good fun if they all started identifying which of their party colleagues who did that they'd defenestrate to get the job.

General Election and Government Formation Megathread (see post #1)

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