Which Camera? Please read OP first

cnocbui · 13-08-2019 2:47pm

I can't make sense of your image circle worry. Lenses tend to be designed to project an image circle that encompasses the sensor they were intended for. M4/3 is no more running out of steam than any other format. Why not say that a Sony A7* or a Nikon D* camera systems are running out of steam and have dubious longevity because their lenses don't have adequate image circles for a medium format sensor such as you might find in a Hasselblad or Fuji?

The Olympus cameras with PDAF sensors - the E-M1 II/X - have probably the fastest and most accurate AF you can get for still subjects and excellent C-AF. Personally I value in body image stabilisation far more highly than a small percentage difference in C-AF keepers. Olympus cameras have better IBIS than any other make. Panasonic are not as good in C-AF or IBIS as Olympus - but they make the best bang for your buck video cameras you can get. They have excellent stills AF but their DFS system that handles C-AF isn't as good as PDAF.

The lenses I mentioned as costing more than a cheap body have very high levels of performance. Getting the same level of performance in Nikon, Canon or Sony lenses will generally cost you more for larger and heavier lenses. You can get fairly cheap m/4/3 lenses, just as you can get fairly cheap consumer grade lenses in most other systems. One reason I got into M4/3 was because not only does it have a very wide range of very good native lenses, but because of the short lens flange to sensor register, you can use a massive number of older manual FF lenses as well. I happened to have some very good Olympus manual FF lenses, so it was a no-brainer to go M4/3 and continue to use them. Coming from 35mm film, I am quite capable of manually focusing and am not lost without AF.

Yes, M4/3 can seem expensive, because there is a bit of a price premium for small, high quality lenses and bodies that have high performance, but that has often been the case in many areas of technology - a Sony RX1R will cost you €2,117, for example. M4/3 is about high performance in a small, relatively light system. This makes it an excellent choice for travel. You can certainly get more bang for your buck with APSC and consumer grade FF systems. If you don't need to shove them under an airline seat or carry them all day, they are a fine choice to save some money.

Bluefoam · 13-08-2019 2:57pm

cnocbui wrote: »

I can't make sense of your image circle worry.

First article I came across in Google:
https://fstoppers.com/gear/imminent-death-micro-four-thirds-301146

Tony Northrup discusses why he thinks micro four-thirds as a format will not survive long. Northrup estimates that in around five years, we may not see any new cameras using that sensor type.

Like I said, the micro 4/3 system is fantastic, but I couldn't justify it over other systems because it doesn't offer any more, has poor focus compared with the competition and lags the specs of other cameras that are equally as good. The Olympus mentioned earlier doesn't even have a microphone input, and even though video hasn't been mentioned, that is currently a minimum requiremnet for many users.

Why should the OP buy into an expensive system, when there are affordable systems that will work equally well or better?

cnocbui · 13-08-2019 3:34pm

Bluefoam wrote: »

First article I came across in Google:
https://fstoppers.com/gear/imminent-death-micro-four-thirds-301146

Like I said, the micro 4/3 system is fantastic, but I couldn't justify it over other systems because it doesn't offer any more, has poor focus compared with the competition and lags the specs of other cameras that are equally as good. The Olympus mentioned earlier doesn't even have a microphone input, and even though video hasn't been mentioned, that is currently a minimum requiremnet for many users.

Why should the OP buy into an expensive system, when there are affordable systems that will work equally well or better?

Northrup is a c*** sucking bleep who makes a good bit of his money from being deliberately controversial as it gets more attention and ka-ching.

As for that other article - Panasonic have a large interest in video. They have a big thing for making 8K a commercial reality ASAP (Tokyo Olympics). 8K requires at least 33 MP - roughly. Leaving aside Sharp's supposed 8K M4/3 sensor with 33 MP, 20 MP is the highest pixel density on Olympus and Panasonic bodies. Panasonic stated publicly that they didn't think M4/3 sensors were suitable to develop 8K on. Then a month or two later they announced a new FF system. Doesn't take a genius to figure the FF system is a platform to allow them to develop 8K on.

Northrup is too busy applying his limited intellect to selecting hair-care products and clothes to have any left over to figure that out.

My personal interest is in what Olympus' future intentions are. At least two CEOs of the company have stated that the imaging division is critical for the R&D synergies it provides to the medical division - which makes the vast majority of Olympus' earnings and profit. That is more than enough assurance for me that the Olympus side of M4/3 is secure. I don't care what Panasonic are up to or what US based professional social media influencers think or say - I know enough to form my own opinions and where to get less biased information.

I don't really want to engage in your anti-M4/3 debate. I am glad you are happy with what you bought and use. I'm happy with what I have and use.

I don't know - ask the OP.

LuckyGent88 · 21-08-2019 9:24am

I’m sure regulars here are sick of answering questions on equipment but I need some assistance.

Looking to purchase a camera for my partners birthday in October. She is a photographer enthusiast let’s say and we are also due our first baby in November and she would like to get a pretty professional camera for taking baby pictures and then for the growing up part. We also travel quite a lot as we live in Germany.

Looking at a camera in the 400-800 euro range. Iv tried to read up on a lot of the equipment but my lack of tech brain hasn’t figured out what is best.

Any advice/recommendations would be great?

Bluefoam · 21-08-2019 9:29am

LuckyGent88 wrote: »

I’m sure regulars here are sick of answering questions on equipment but I need some assistance.

Looking to purchase a camera for my partners birthday in October. She is a photographer enthusiast let’s say and we are also due our first baby in November and she would like to get a pretty professional camera for taking baby pictures and then for the growing up part. We also travel quite a lot as we live in Germany.

Looking at a camera in the 400-800 euro range. Iv tried to read up on a lot of the equipment but my lack of tech brain hasn’t figured out what is best.

Any advice/recommendations would be great?

The Canon M6ii has just been leaked... Specs look phenominal & speculation on price has been that it may fit into your bugdet... perfect for the enthusiast photographer... looks like they really picked up their game on specifications.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAuaLe7dJmg

GBX · 21-08-2019 9:29am

Does she have a camera already? If so, what model/lenses does she have already? Maybe a new lens instead of a camera?

CelticRambler · 21-08-2019 9:47am

LuckyGent88 wrote: »

Looking to purchase a camera for my partners birthday in October. She is a photographer enthusiast ... but my lack of tech brain hasn’t figured out what is best.

Let her make the decision!

If she's a real enthusiast, she'll know what she wants, and you'll drive yourself crazy trying to figure out what that is.

Over the years, I've received several thoughtful but ultimately unsatisfactory (or downright unusable) gifts that have been bought for me because someone knew I had a particular interest.

Use the excuse of the imminent arrival to start talking about taking photos in general, and of the baby in particular. You could pretend that you're thinking of getting into photography yourself, mess around with your phone camera, moan about not being able to get the kind of shot you want and let your partner "take over". Chances are you'll be the one who ends up taking the pictures anyway, so get a camera that works for both of you.

LuckyGent88 · 21-08-2019 10:13am

CelticRambler wrote: »

Let her make the decision! If she's a real enthusiast, she'll know what she wants, and you'll drive yourself crazy trying to figure out what that is.

Over the years, I've received several thoughtful but ultimately unsatisfactory (or downright unusable) gifts that have been bought for me because someone knew I had a particular interest.

Use the excuse of the imminent arrival to start talking about taking photos in general, and of the baby in particular. You could pretend that you're thinking of getting into photography yourself, mess around with your phone camera, moan about not being able to get the kind of shot you want and let your partner "take over". Chances are you'll be the one who ends up taking the pictures anyway, so get a camera that works for both of you.

Thanks for the replies. Maybe photography enthusiast is a bit extreme. Loves taking photos but most is with her phone and the various apps she has.

The only other camera we have is one of those instant printable camera but it is of a poor quality.

Both of us wouldn’t know much when it comes to the more professional cameras. I’m personally happy just using my phone. The price isn’t an issue as it will be a present from myself and the rest of her family.

will56 · 21-08-2019 10:20am

LuckyGent88 wrote: »

Thanks for the replies. Maybe photography enthusiast is a bit extreme. Loves taking photos but most is with her phone and the various apps she has.

The only other camera we have is one of those instant printable camera but it is of a poor quality.

Both of us wouldn’t know much when it comes to the more professional cameras. I’m personally happy just using my phone. The price isn’t an issue as it will be a present from myself and the rest of her family.

I'd second the other reply.
Its definitely worth going into a camera shop and physically handling cameras and asking for advice.
She might find a DSLR too cumbersome and prefer a mirrorless or point & shoot etc. I have a d7500 with a 24-70mm on it most of the time, I love the feel of it but my wife is not a fan of the size and all the dials etc.

CelticRambler · 21-08-2019 10:38am

LuckyGent88 wrote: »

Maybe photography enthusiast is a bit extreme. Loves taking photos but most is with her phone and the various apps she has.

Hmmm. If she really loves using various apps to add filters and borders and all that, then she might be disappointed with a "proper" camera that doesn't - and can't - do any of that. Just moving the photos from the camera to a phone/computer so they can be edited/shared/printed is an extra step that may put a brake on her enthusiasm.

You really need to decide (between you) what kind of photographic record you'd like to keep of the years ahead - hundreds (and hundreds and hundreds!

) of snapshots documenting almost every day of the baby's first year, or one or two competition-winning portraits.

In either case, don't underestimate the amount of time (and storage) you'll need to process those pictures afterwards - a precious commodity that you may not have until the baby's grown up and left home!

cnocbui · 21-08-2019 11:08am

CelticRambler wrote: »

Hmmm. If she really loves using various apps to add filters and borders and all that, then she might be disappointed with a "proper" camera that doesn't - and can't - do any of that. Just moving the photos from the camera to a phone/computer so they can be edited/shared/printed is an extra step that may put a brake on her enthusiasm.

You really need to decide (between you) what kind of photographic record you'd like to keep of the years ahead - hundreds (and hundreds and hundreds! ) of snapshots documenting almost every day of the baby's first year, or one or two competition-winning portraits.

In either case, don't underestimate the amount of time (and storage) you'll need to process those pictures afterwards - a precious commodity that you may not have until the baby's grown up and left home!

Some good points. There is a camera that has Pro level features and performance - Olympus Pen-F - and price of course - that rather copped some flack for also including a suite of Art filters and effects, particularly some aimed at reproducing the 'look' of 35mm film types - and made these accessible via a dedicated dial. It has WiFi, and apart from being able to be operated remotely via a phone app, the app can also transfer photos from the camera to the phone for further messing with or can even automatically downsize - or not - and upload them directly to social media from the camera. No computer needed.

Sadly - because it is absolutely gorgeous - it has just been discontinued as it was quite expensive and didn't sell well outside Japan. There is a lightly used one on UK ebay at the moment for £685 ONO that even tempts me, now that I think about it, as it's better than my E-M1

LuckyGent88 · 21-08-2019 12:11pm

CelticRambler wrote: »

Hmmm. If she really loves using various apps to add filters and borders and all that, then she might be disappointed with a "proper" camera that doesn't - and can't - do any of that. Just moving the photos from the camera to a phone/computer so they can be edited/shared/printed is an extra step that may put a brake on her enthusiasm.

You really need to decide (between you) what kind of photographic record you'd like to keep of the years ahead - hundreds (and hundreds and hundreds! ) of snapshots documenting almost every day of the baby's first year, or one or two competition-winning portraits.

In either case, don't underestimate the amount of time (and storage) you'll need to process those pictures afterwards - a precious commodity that you may not have until the baby's grown up and left home!

Thanks for your thoughts. Plenty to digest. I’ll have a discussion and go from there

Klemantine · 19-09-2019 9:56am

To date, I think the best is the mirrorless camera. My choice is Sony a 6000. But I am sure that there are many more decent cameras and additional devices for them on the market . I as a person who works in the field of photography for 10 years, I can't do without stabilizers. Over the years I have identified two types it's Zhiyun Crane Plus and DJI Ronin SC https://gimbalgarage.com/best-gimbals-for-mirrorless-cameras/. At the time of writing, the Zhiyun Crane Plus is one of the most recent additions to the line up of gimbals that have been designed for use with mirrorless camera. Both work perfectly in conjunction with Sony A 6000 camera. This is my short opinion about all these devices.

dball · 04-11-2019 8:39pm

can anyone recommend which of these 2 lenses to buy,

its for a Canon Eos20D
not sure either will work/fit on this this camera???

I'm looking to shoot some nice portraits indoors and some indoor property pictures:
Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II Lens
Electronics / Camera Lenses

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 STM Lens
Electronics / Camera Lenses

will there be much improvement on my current EFS18-55mm??

CelticRambler · 04-11-2019 9:11pm

dball wrote: »

can anyone recommend which of these 2 lenses to buy,

its for a Canon Eos20D
not sure either will work/fit on this this camera???

I'm looking to shoot some nice portraits indoors and some indoor property pictures:

As the 20D has an APS-C sensor, a 50mm lens isn't going to be that great for indoor property pictures. I mostly use a Canon 10-18mm f/4.5 zoom for small-room shots (e.g. bathroom) or a Canon 24mm f/2.8 if I need the wider aperture. I'd only use the 50mm for shots of particular detail.

It's been a while since I looked into the difference between the Mk II and the STM. In the end, on the basis of many YouTube and other reviews, I bought a 50mm f/1.8 Yongnuo for a still/starter kit, found it "perfectly satisfactory" but went on to buy a Canon 50mm STM for video use. The STM is definitely quieter and faster, but otherwise the performance seems about the same.

Is your 18-55 the EF-S III kit lens? If so, I have one of those too. I don't think I've seen it for at least three years! :pac: I use an 18-135mm as my day-to-day lens (big and heavy, not especially fast, but great for being the right lens at the right time when I don't know what I'll find during a photo-hike.

dball · 05-11-2019 6:41pm

yes it is the kit lens, well i think it is, i bough it second hand and its all that came with it.

Would my choice of the above 50 mm lenses be a more wide angle option than i currently have?

CelticRambler · 05-11-2019 7:34pm

dball wrote: »

Would my choice of the above 50 mm lenses be a more wide angle option than i currently have?

Wide angle, no. It'll be (effectively) the same as the 55mm end of your current lens. What you'll gain will be a lof of extra f/stops, but unless you're looking for a blurred/bokeh background when photographing specific details within a room, it'll be of no real benefit for interior property shots. The improvement in low-light performance is a questionable advantage for this kind of photography as you could just as easily use a tripod and a slightly longer exposure with the lens you have ... and you'll be able to get so much more into the frame working at the 18mm end of the zoom.

For portraits, however, you would get some/much improvement, as the wider aperture/blurred background would come into its own then, and the low-light performance would be a significant advantage when taking candid shots in ambient light.

dball · 05-11-2019 7:57pm

thank you for the concise answer, perfect,

cheers

Lord TSC · 14-04-2020 10:50pm

Photography is something I’ve always wanted to get into, and given summer holidays are a no go this year, I’m leaning towards treating myself to a proper camera.something in the €400 range.

I’ve got a Samsung Galaxy S9 and love taking scenic shots, landscapes and cityscapes, but obviously phones have limitations. But I’d be looking for a starter camera that can take far more detailed shots.

Should I be looking for a DSLR camera for those sorts of shots? I see the Canon EOS 4000D and 18-55mm lens on Amazon for just under 300. 2000D version is about €370.

But I don’t want to buy one and find out it’s way more aimed at live action shots and such. Are they decent options for a starter camera for someone looking to get into landscape style photography? I don't want to invest much more than €400 on a starter camera in case I get it and realise I actually don't like taking pictures all that much :P

Is there other cameras that would be better options at that price range?

CelticRambler · 14-04-2020 11:11pm

Lord TSC wrote: »

But I don’t want to buy one and find out it’s way more aimed at live action shots and such.

The 4000D has shooting modes for Intelligent Auto, Flash Off, Creative Auto, Portrait, Landscape, Close-up, Sports, Foods, Night Portrait, Program AE, Shutter priority AE, Aperture priority AE, Manual exposure, Movie - that should reassure that it's not just for live action shots! And if you have a look at the Random Photography thread, you'll see that the members of this forum take all kinds of pictures, mostly with DSLRs.

Lord TSC wrote: »

I don't want to invest much more than €400 on a starter camera in case I get it and realise I actually don't like taking pictures all that much :P

If you're still at that stage of indecision, you need to realise that there's no such thing as a starter camera (well, other than the one that comes with your phone :pac: ); what you really have to think about are the starter lenses and how they'll help - or hinder - you in getting more from a DSLR than you can manage with a phone.

OldGoat · 15-04-2020 8:28am

What helped me when I started was getting a second hand DSLR and a 50mm lens. I used that 50mm exclusively for a year to shoot everything from macro to portraits to landscapes. I shoot star trails, I shot smoke sculptures, I photographed airplanes in flight, cars racing, kids playing football, time lapses of trees growing...anything and everything.

That year taught me the limits of my camera, the limits of using a prime lens*. Overcoming those limits was the process of becoming a photographer. The first year is a steep learning curve but it is also the most exciting. You will take more photographs in your first year then you will in the rest of your life.

The year also changed me and my view of what I wanted from photography. I started out wanting to shoot product - 'still life' if you want to put an artistic bent on it. Landscapes never interested me much. Now, 4 new lenses in and 3 of them are purchased with landscaping in mind. The journey can take you anywhere.

There are lots of truism in photography that you will learn as you...em..learn.
1: It's all about the light.
2: Good glass trumps a good camera-body EVERYTIME.
3: Improvise before spending thousands on a professional solution.
4: Composition is the cheapest and fundamentally important photography improvement you can make.

So, my advice is to go second hand. Brand is not really important as at a basic entry level most brand offer the same ****e. Sticking with the market leaders simply means that you will have a larger pool of secondhand lenses to choose from. Pick up a few camera body brands and feel the fit in your hand. In all honesty that is more important than what shoots more frames per second or the ever entertaining PixelCountSalesPitch.

*The 50mm prime is still my favorite lens.

jacobwrestling · 02-05-2020 3:39pm

Right so I'm probably really pushing it here, but I'm looking to get a decent compact camera for in and around €150. I started off looking at superzooms but I doubt I actually need the zoom, my key concern is portability. I'm an amateur, eager to learn more, but I'm finding my phone fiddly when it comes to manual controls and would rather more tactile control, but would rather not mess around with interchangeable lenses just yet.

I've done a good bit of research since and landed on some possibilities. Sticking with the superzooms, I've found a Panasonic TZ70 at a decent price, but I've also found that the Fuji x10 really appeals to me looking at reviews and videos, despite being an older camera.

Any input or suggestions for me? I'm getting absolutely bogged down in information and would love any bit of advice!

Horse84 · 13-05-2020 4:56pm

I know this must be asked a million times here by now but I’m on the lookout for a decent Dslr camera. My partner and I know little enough about cameras and photography but we want to get into it a bit. With young kids we are finding our own cameras aren’t great. Can anyone recommend any good cameras for beginners and where to get them? Budget would be around 350ish. Thanks

Sheeps · 13-05-2020 5:58pm

Horse84 wrote: »

I know this must be asked a million times here by now but I’m on the lookout for a decent Dslr camera. My partner and I know little enough about cameras and photography but we want to get into it a bit. With young kids we are finding our own cameras aren’t great. Can anyone recommend any good cameras for beginners and where to get them? Budget would be around 350ish. Thanks

The honest truth is that it doesn't really matter. You can pick up an entry level DSLR brand new at that price. (canon 1000D or 2000D). If you find a second hand camera on adverts or done deal, you can probably also buy yourself a lens for the same price too, which will give you some versatility and allow you to get different types of shots (I'd recommend a non zoom "prime" lens) which may help you learn.

When you get into photography, you essentially are buying into a system, and you will upgrade parts of that system over time.

Canon, Sony, Nikon, they're all good. The other manufacturers will teach you just as much and are as good, in different ways too.

Bluefoam · 13-05-2020 6:07pm

I'd go mirrorless rather than DSLR....

Horse84 · 13-05-2020 6:12pm

Bluefoam wrote: »

I'd go mirrorless rather than DSLR....

Can I ask why?

Sheeps · 13-05-2020 6:18pm

Mirrorless cameras are being hailed as the future of photography but its not really important for a beginner. It will honsetly double your budget.

cnocbui · 13-05-2020 6:41pm

Horse84 wrote: »

I know this must be asked a million times here by now but I’m on the lookout for a decent Dslr camera. My partner and I know little enough about cameras and photography but we want to get into it a bit. With young kids we are finding our own cameras aren’t great. Can anyone recommend any good cameras for beginners and where to get them? Budget would be around 350ish. Thanks

Get a secondhand Olympus E-M5 with 12-50mm kit lens it originally sold with off ebay for less than £250. Cheapest would be the original, but you could still manage the II version for that and it is even better. Main points being small size, and portability for travel and in body stabilisation to compensate for camera movement. It's a mirrorless camera. A very large range of lenses are available should you get into it.

Limpy · 02-07-2020 9:47am

Hi has anyone used the Kaiser bass x250 or x300? Will be using it mainly for hiking or some MTB. €79 and €99 are they worth it?

Bluefoam · 02-07-2020 10:33am

Sheeps wrote: »

Mirrorless cameras are being hailed as the future of photography but its not really important for a beginner. It will honsetly double your budget.

But the lens system you chose 100% does affect beginners... Canon have already announced that they have stopped developing DSLR lenses. The lens system a beginner choses could effect every camera related purchase they make in the future... I wouldn't be buying into DSLR as a beginer camera... The benefit a beginer has is that they aren't tied into old legacy glass.

100% beginners should buy a mirrorless camera.

Which Camera? **Please read OP first**

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Which Camera? Please read OP first