Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - Read OP for Mod Warnings

Ginger n Lemon · 29-06-2020 02:35PM

Deleted User wrote: »

It will take time for all sectors of the economy to return to pre COVID levels.

And that is precisely why I have been in favour of much quicker lifting of restrictions, since mid May. Whatever speed most of EU countries been going at didnt cause a spike in new cases, and we have been the slowest in entire EU.

Whatever acceleration of restrictions we have done (with all of retail shops allowed to re open since 8th of June not just small ones per initial roadmap) didnt cause any spikes in new cases. Bringing forward horse racing etc.

Whatever Black lives matters protests, twice in 7 days of 3000 + gathering in Dublin alone didnt cause any increase in new cases.

It seems like whatever has been happening did not result in any spikes in new cases...... but yet now we must wait 3 more weeks with 30,000 + of pub employees sitting at home at 350 euros a week?

Now we must impose the 2 metre social distancing rule onto every business even though a lot of EU countries have cut it down to 1 metre and seen no spikes in new cases. Why?

Now, that there are 100 active cases in Ireland or less out of 4,900,000 population, we want to impose masks?

This is idiotic beyond belief. The longer our economy takes to return to normal, the bigger the cut will be on healthcare spending, and subsequently the more people will suffer (in addition to record number of people on trolleys now, anyways).

Ginger n Lemon · 29-06-2020 02:36PM

Deleted User wrote: »

No it’s actual economics.

No, its Mr Bean economics.

Lets just liquidate Aerlingus now, they arent viable with no tourism in 2020. Some new airline will be created in 2021 to take its place. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

greensheep777 · 29-06-2020 02:43PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

And that is precisely why I have been in favour of much quicker lifting of restrictions, since mid May. Whatever speed most of EU countries been going at didnt cause a spike in new cases, and we have been the slowest in entire EU.

Whatever acceleration of restrictions we have done (with all of retail shops allowed to re open since 8th of June not just small ones per initial roadmap) didnt cause any spikes in new cases. Bringing forward horse racing etc.

Whatever Black lives matters protests, twice in 7 days of 3000 + gathering in Dublin alone didnt cause any increase in new cases.

It seems like whatever has been happening did not result in any spikes in new cases...... but yet now we must wait 3 more weeks with 30,000 + of pub employees sitting at home at 350 euros a week?

Now we must impose the 2 metre social distancing rule onto every business even though a lot of EU countries have cut it down to 1 metre and seen no spikes in new cases. Why?

Now, that there are 100 active cases in Ireland or less out of 4,900,000 population, we want to impose masks?

This is idiotic beyond belief. The longer our economy takes to return to normal, the bigger the cut will be on healthcare spending, and subsequently the more people will suffer (in addition to record number of people on trolleys now, anyways).

It'll be interesting to see how many restrictions some people still want to have when the Budget comes out later in the year. It's not the Tony Holohans or other publically-funded misery merchants who will be the worst hit.

Penfailed · 29-06-2020 02:45PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Mr Bean economics

Tourists will return. If the infrastructure that supported the tourism economy folds now, the gaps will be filled again. Simply typing, "Mr Bean economics", without a proper response only appeals to people like G 'n' L who fawn over your every post even when they have no substance.

Penfailed · 29-06-2020 02:47PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Whatever Black lives matters protests, twice in 7 days of 3000 + gathering in Dublin alone didnt cause any increase in new cases.

Had those protests been carried out indoors, the story would have been different.

Penfailed · 29-06-2020 02:50PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

No, its Mr Bean economics.

Lets just liquidate Aerlingus now, they arent viable with no tourism in 2020. Some new airline will be created in 2021 to take its place. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

You see. I type about one thing and you come back with something completely different to deflect from the original point. The airline industry and the local tourism sector are like comparing apples and lemons...

29-06-2020 02:52PM

Penfailed wrote: »

Tourists will return. If the infrastructure that supported the tourism economy folds now, the gaps will be filled again. Simply typing, "Mr Bean economics", without a proper response only appeals to people like G 'n' L who fawn over your every post even when they have no substance.

You realise that infastructure folding would result in tens of thousands of lost jobs right? And it would take years for the 'gaps' to be filled again.

bucketybuck · 29-06-2020 03:04PM

Penfailed wrote: »

If businesses close, others will open up to fill the gap.

Either hopelessly naive or posting insincere. I know which I think you are.

I can only imagine the response I would get if I said that if people died others will be born to fill the gap, but I wouldn't be so callous.

This poster however appears to think it doesn't matter about the hundreds of thousands of people losing their jobs and livelihoods, something to bear in mind when responding.

Penfailed · 29-06-2020 03:12PM

AdamD wrote: »

You realise that infastructure folding would result in tens of thousands of lost jobs right? And it would take years for the 'gaps' to be filled again.

Quite possibly. I didn't say otherwise anywhere. I was responding to a doom and gloom post that stated, "RIP Irish tourism." It is inevitable that it will indeed bounce back. It's not dead.

is_that_so · 29-06-2020 03:15PM

polesheep wrote: »

They should give more details. What type of traveller are we talking about? Was it someone who flew in on essential business, someone who came on the ferry for a funeral? In a sense they are acting like some posters on this site in only selecting elements of the story that suit their narrative.

I think it's just keeping up the message of staying local and in their defence they
are looking at New Zealand and Australia's rise in cases . Need for me is family occasions like funerals or simply just seeing them again etc or required business travel. The target here seems to be people who want to head off on a holiday and there's nothing stopping that from happening. While some people will go for a holiday, many will not and that's what they want at present.

Penfailed · 29-06-2020 03:19PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

This poster however appears to think it doesn't matter about the hundreds of thousands of people losing their jobs and livelihoods, something to bear in mind when responding.

Where have I said that it doesn't matter? Again...I was responding to a post that stated, "RIP Irish tourism". My ONLY point is that Irish tourism is not dead. It WILL come back again. There may be casualties along the way. I DID NOT say that these casualties don't matter. You are conflating two different things to make an argument. You are not alone, many others are doing the same thing on here.

Ginger n Lemon · 29-06-2020 03:21PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Either hopelessly naive or posting insincere. I know which I think you are.

I can only imagine the response I would get if I said that if people died others will be born to fill the gap, but I wouldn't be so callous.

This poster however appears to think it doesn't matter about the hundreds of thousands of people losing their jobs and livelihoods, something to bear in mind when responding.

I've ignored that poster yesterday. Keeps saying "casualties along the way" in such a casual manner its disturbing.

Penfailed · 29-06-2020 03:26PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I've ignored that poster yesterday. Keeps saying "casualties along the way" in such a casual manner its disturbing.

Penfailed wrote: »

There may be casualties along the way. I DID NOT say that these casualties don't matter. You are conflating two different things to make an argument. You are not alone, many others are doing the same thing on here.

There we are. Again.

29-06-2020 03:28PM

greensheep777 wrote: »

It'll be interesting to see how many restrictions some people still want to have when the Budget comes out later in the year. It's not the Tony Holohans or other publically-funded misery merchants who will be the worst hit.

For the economically illiterate, any tax increases or spending cuts this year are the surefire way to turn recession into depression. If they do that I would be equally surprised and discusted

Irish Aris · 29-06-2020 03:37PM

Deleted User wrote: »

For the economically illiterate, any tax increases or spending cuts this year are the surefire way to turn recession into depression. If they do that I would be equally surprised and discusted

Very true, and I hope you're right.
I would be a bit concerned that a measure like tax increases is an "easy way out" for a government, but hopefully logic and longer term thinking will prevail.

Ginger n Lemon · 29-06-2020 03:38PM

"If the Government doesn't act now , almost 50 percent of restaurants could shut their door permanently."

The last 106 days have had a devastating impact on the hospitality and tourism sector. When we all first shut our doors at the beginning of lockdown, we never anticipated it would last over four months.

For many, reopening on 29th of June means operating at a significantly reduced capacity, which will have detrimental impact on earning potential.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/financial-aid-needed-for-hard-pressed-restaurants-1.4289276?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fbusiness%2Feconomy%2Ffinancial-aid-needed-for-hard-pressed-restaurants-1.4289276

Damn. :mad:

Hannibal36 · 29-06-2020 03:43PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

"If the Government doesn't act now , almost 50 percent of restaurants could shut their door permanently."

The last 106 days have had a devastating impact on the hospitality and tourism sector. When we all first shut our doors at the beginning of lockdown, we never anticipated it would last over four months.

For many, reopening on 29th of June means operating at a significantly reduced capacity, which will have detrimental impact on earning potential.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/financial-aid-needed-for-hard-pressed-restaurants-1.4289276?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fbusiness%2Feconomy%2Ffinancial-aid-needed-for-hard-pressed-restaurants-1.4289276

Damn. :mad:

At the end of the day the larger restaurants and chains are going to be bailed out and subsidised the little guy with one family business will go under.

FintanMcluskey · 29-06-2020 03:45PM

Deleted User wrote: »

For the economically illiterate, any tax increases or spending cuts this year are the surefire way to turn recession into depression. If they do that I would be equally surprised and discusted

Ok I have to admit it. Im economically illiterate.

How will the Covid bill be paid exactly?

With 0 tax increases?

With an extraordinary number unemployed and in need of income support?

12m visitors not spending money here?

Even the PPE cost 2bn ffs.

But you wouldn't expect tax increases or an emergency budget when the money isn't available for public sector wages?

opinionated3 · 29-06-2020 03:46PM

It's not rocket science really is it? I know of two persons close to me that have been let go permanently from their restaurant jobs because the manager couldn't find a way to social distance the layout properly and had to reduce staff as a result. This is only the beginning. We better get used to a pretty large live register figure for the coming months/ years. And the mortgage and loan defaulting that follows with that.....

opinionated3 · 29-06-2020 03:46PM

It's not rocket science really is it? I know of two persons close to me that have been let go permanently from their restaurant jobs because the manager couldn't find a way to social distance the layout properly and had to reduce staff as a result. This is only the beginning. We better get used to a pretty large live register figure for the coming months/ years. And the mortgage and loan defaulting that follows with that.....

Penfailed · 29-06-2020 03:48PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Ok I have to admit it. Im economically illiterate.

Like Mr. Bean...?

is_that_so · 29-06-2020 03:49PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Ok I have to admit it. Im economically illiterate.

How will the Covid bill be paid exactly?

With 0 tax increases?

With an extraordinary number unemployed and in need of income support?

12m visitors not spending money here?

Even the PPE cost 2bn ffs.

But you wouldn't expect tax increases or an emergency budget when the money isn't available for public sector wages?

In the main by the borrowing of very, very cheap money but there will also probably be adjustments to "less important" programmes to facilitate it. I wouldn't look at unemployment rates too closely until the wage subsidy and PUP are phased out. Realistically it will probably be in the order of 15% but it might be lower.

Ginger n Lemon · 29-06-2020 03:50PM

opinionated3 wrote: »

It's not rocket science really is it? I know of two persons close to me that have been let go permanently from their restaurant jobs because the manager couldn't find a way to social distance the layout properly and had to reduce staff as a result. This is only the beginning. We better get used to a pretty large live register figure for the coming months/ years. And the mortgage and loan defaulting that follows with that.....

Banks are way ahead of that, already

"AIB has introduced wide-ranging restrictions on mortgage lending in light of the Covid-19 pandemic, internal documents seen by The Irish Times reveal.

They include a de-facto ban on mortgage lending to those in receipt of State wage subsidies and extra scrutiny on applications from people working in “high risk” sectors of the economy."

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/aib-introduces-frightening-mortgage-rules-and-halts-lending-to-covid-payment-recipients-1.4290956

Sh*t is about to hit the fan

polesheep · 29-06-2020 03:50PM

is_that_so wrote: »

I think it's just keeping up the message of staying local and in their defence they
are looking at New Zealand and Australia's rise in cases . Need for me is family occasions like funerals or simply just seeing them again etc or required business travel. The target here seems to be people who want to head off on a holiday and there's nothing stopping that from happening. While some people will go for a holiday, many will not and that's what they want at present.

But they could do that without concealing information. Why won't they give details of these travel cases? Could it be that they are either irrelevant or don't exist at all? I believe we have a right to know.

facehugger99 · 29-06-2020 03:52PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Ok I have to admit it. Im economically illiterate.

How will the Covid bill be paid exactly?

With 0 tax increases?

With an extraordinary number unemployed and in need of income support?

12m visitors not spending money here?

Even the PPE cost 2bn ffs.

But you wouldn't expect tax increases or an emergency budget when the money isn't available for public sector wages?

The lads that bray the loudest for anti-cyclical Government spending during a recession are the same ones that would turf any government out that didn't give them enough sweeties in a boom.

They are economic illiterates and the country is unfortunately riddled with them.

If we stopped teaching Irish and religion in school and made Economics compulsory, we be in much better shape as a country and have better quality politicians elected.

The new mantra of spending our way out of the coming recession is the same old 'can't someone else pay for it' argument with the 'someone else' being our kids and grandkids.

is_that_so · 29-06-2020 03:53PM

polesheep wrote: »

But they could do that without concealing information. Why won't they give details of these travel cases? Could it be that they are either irrelevant or don't exist at all? I believe we have a right to know.

They are patients so confidentiality applies. We'll see what the list looks like next week but Sweden is probably on the naughty list.

Ginger n Lemon · 29-06-2020 03:55PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Ok I have to admit it. Im economically illiterate.

How will the Covid bill be paid exactly?

With 0 tax increases?

With an extraordinary number unemployed and in need of income support?

12m visitors not spending money here?

Even the PPE cost 2bn ffs.

But you wouldn't expect tax increases or an emergency budget when the money isn't available for public sector wages?

That in bold scares the sh*t out of me. To give some context - if each spends 10 euros thats 120 million euros. If each spends 100 euros - thats 1.2bn

If each spends 500 euros thats 6bn.....

polesheep · 29-06-2020 04:01PM

is_that_so wrote: »

They are patients so confidentiality applies. We'll see what the list looks like next week but Sweden is probably on the naughty list.

Ah come on. They were able to tell us that patients had travelled from Italy and elsewhere. Information is power, but it doesn't confer nearly as much power as the withholding of information.

is_that_so · 29-06-2020 04:03PM

polesheep wrote: »

Ah come on. They were able to tell us that patients had travelled from Italy and elsewhere. Information is power, but it doesn't confer nearly as much power as the withholding of information.

That's the CMO for you and has been since Day 1, it's all of them really. They will not give out information like that, so you'll just have to work with 11% of cases.

29-06-2020 04:05PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

The lads that bray the loudest for anti-cyclical Government spending during a recession are the same ones that would turf any government out that didn't give them enough sweeties in a boom.

They are economic illiterates and the country is unfortunately riddled with them.

If we stopped teaching Irish and religion in school and made Economics compulsory, we be in much better shape as a country and have better quality politicians elected.

The new mantra of spending our way out of the coming recession is the same old 'can't someone else pay for it' argument with the 'someone else' being our kids and grandkids.

So it’s better to take a billion out of the economy now than essentially get free money as inflation and economic growth will decrease the real valve of what we repay to less than we borrowed. Interest rates rising is not a valid argument either as if they do it’s because of global recovery or inflation both of which improve our ability to repay

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - Read OP for Mod Warnings