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P2P Lending

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    #1082
    Peter File
    Registered Users Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭Peter File


    Another lender in trouble on mintos today. Capital services a b rated lender


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    #1083
    dotsman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,635 ✭✭✭dotsman


    Anybody having trouble with fastinvest?

    I have been waiting over a month for them to process a withdrawal. Unlike Grupeer etc which is stating they are suspending transactions during pandemic, Fastinvest support is just saying that they are experiencing minor delays (taking a day or 2 to process is a "minor delay", a week is a long time, but a month and still nothing processed is just fraud). All the while they are increasing their interest rates, and have doubled down on the marketing.


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    #1084
    littlevillage
    Registered Users Posts: 2,868 ✭✭✭littlevillage


    New lending Volumes continue to crash thru the floor

    https://www.p2p-banking.com/tag/loan-volume/

    I got out of Mintos completely .... think I have about €10 still there in late loans now....from a high of €30k in July last year. Just by sheer good fortune, I started shutting my investment down in Dec 2019. phew!! ��

    Still have a bit of cash in DoFinance ...they have had a few webinars and been upfront about having liquidity problems, their solution is to drip feed a % of all payout requests during Covid-19 in order to save the business from going under.

    Its not ideal.... but we are where we are, I suppose ? I think they have so far given me back about 20% of my outstanding balance ....in 1 & 2 % payouts over the last Month


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    #1085
    littlevillage
    Registered Users Posts: 2,868 ✭✭✭littlevillage


    For anybody feeling sorry for themselves, have a read of Jørgen's travails :-(

    https://financiallyfree.eu/portfolio-update-april-2020/#more-6276


    I think he'll basically have to go back to work when Covid-19 is over as he'll be wiped out !


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    #1086
    retalivity
    Registered Users Posts: 14,067 ✭✭✭✭retalivity


    My mintos repayments are still coming through steady enough, ive turned off the auto-invest and withdraw when it gets over €100 or so, I have further reduced my mintos portfolio to about 55% of what it was a few months ago, will continue to dripfeed money out of it.
    The only other platform I am invested in is grupeer...thats not looking good at all, everything frozen and taking about 'return to stability' in 2 years. Smells like another Envestio/Keutzal...


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    #1087
    littlevillage
    Registered Users Posts: 2,868 ✭✭✭littlevillage


    Yeah, Jørgen talks about Grupeer and Fastinvest in his April news round up


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    #1088
    dotsman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,635 ✭✭✭dotsman


    littlevillage wrote: »
    Yeah, Jørgen talks about Grupeer and Fastinvest in his April news round up

    For now, he is simply describing it as a delay. But I have been waiting for over a month now.

    Looks more and more like a scam.


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    #1089
    Wegian
    Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭Wegian


    littlevillage wrote: »
    New lending Volumes continue to crash thru the floor

    https://www.p2p-banking.com/tag/loan-volume/

    I got out of Mintos completely .... think I have about €10 still there in late loans now....from a high of €30k in July last year. Just by sheer good fortune, I started shutting my investment down in Dec 2019. phew!! ��

    Still have a bit of cash in DoFinance ...they have had a few webinars and been upfront about having liquidity problems, their solution is to drip feed a % of all payout requests during Covid-19 in order to save the business from going under.

    Its not ideal.... but we are where we are, I suppose ? I think they have so far given me back about 20% of my outstanding balance ....in 1 & 2 % payouts over the last Month

    That’s an incredibly well timed exit strategy

    I see Mr Financially Free is putting money into the Mintos Secondary market

    Mintos seem to be paying out in a very timely manner thankfully


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    #1090
    littlevillage
    Registered Users Posts: 2,868 ✭✭✭littlevillage


    Wegian wrote: »
    That’s an incredibly well timed exit strategy

    I see Mr Financially Free is putting money into the Mintos Secondary market

    Mintos seem to be paying out in a very timely manner thankfully

    Yeah, I had to sell some loans on the Secondary market with a decent (-10 to -15%) discount.... But just glad to get out.

    Think Jorgen is asking for trouble buying on the Mintos secondary market. Its looks tempting because of discounts but the risk of defaults by Borrower/loan Originator/Mintos themselves ... is just too high


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    #1091
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,047 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Wegian wrote: »
    I see Mr Financially Free is putting money into the Mintos Secondary market

    Have you got independent confirmation of that or is it just his waffle? Now is the time for a clear head and clinical decisions not listening to a bunch of talking heads.


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    #1092
    Wegian
    Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭Wegian


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    Have you got independent confirmation of that or is it just his waffle? Now is the time for a clear head and clinical decisions not listening to a bunch of talking heads.

    Just his waffle


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    #1093
    Wegian
    Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭Wegian


    littlevillage wrote: »
    Yeah, I had to sell some loans on the Secondary market with a decent (-10 to -15%) discount.... But just glad to get out.

    Think Jorgen is asking for trouble buying on the Mintos secondary market. Its looks tempting because of discounts but the risk of defaults by Borrower/loan Originator/Mintos themselves ... is just too high

    Likewise I took a 5 to 7% discount on the overdue loans but glad to be fully out now


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    #1094
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,047 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Wegian wrote: »
    Just his waffle

    Unlike the stock picker newsletter stuff there really is no regulation in this area... So no way to reliably check anything.


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    #1095
    macannrb
    Registered Users Posts: 311 ✭✭macannrb


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    Have you got independent confirmation of that or is it just his waffle? Now is the time for a clear head and clinical decisions not listening to a bunch of talking heads.

    Not sure if someone else investing now is a any better than talking heads.

    The fundamentals is that the obligors are basically lenders to the weakest in society. The same weakest have been hit hardest as they haven’t been able to work in the gig economy, haven’t been able to get tips and possibly haven’t been able to qualify for social welfare in the countries that these lenders operate in.

    And we are talking about unsecured lending. Some level of security would make a big difference on the recovery rates.

    The other issue with these payday lenders is that as the interest rates are so high, if someone goes into default it is very tough to get back on track. So delinquency rates will be sky high across the obligors lending books.

    Buying in to something that has all the hall marks of its last gasps of air should be something you base a decision on because someone else invests in it, regardless of whether that person is Warren Buffett.


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    #1096
    dotsman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,635 ✭✭✭dotsman


    Fast Invest have eventually acknowledged the massive delays in withdrawals (I'm waiting 6 weeks for mine).

    https://www.fastinvest.com/en/blog/remuneration-for-over-pending-payouts

    Not sure what to make of it. There's still no transparency or reason offered for the ridiculous delays. Just more fancy marketing and attempt to make things appear relatively fine.


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    #1097
    jams100
    Registered Users Posts: 771 ✭✭✭jams100


    I have been using linked finance over the past 2 years, things seem relatively fine. About 50% of the loans are on a payment break which makes sense, hopefully with construction etc starting up again that'll improve but no issues re withdrawing :)


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    #1098
    RevenueLand
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭RevenueLand


    Fastinvest has never disclosed its loan originators. There are more transparent platforms and especially in times like these it is better to stay away from smaller and mysterious P2Ps in my opinion.


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    #1099
    Kevhog1988
    Registered Users Posts: 3,972 ✭✭✭Kevhog1988


    Is now the time to avoid p2p lending with the uncertainty of covid?


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    #1100
    RevenueLand
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭RevenueLand


    P2p lending is rightly included in the list of rather risky investments.
    Fortunately, sometimes the returns are also well adjusted to the risk.
    I think that if I do not invest "also" in P2P lending during this (or the next) crisis, I am going to reduce my total diversification. If I avoid P2P I will focus more on financial markets, ETFs, Bonds and other instruments that still bring a degree of risk and volatility to my global portfolio.
    So, no, I don't think that during a crisis (this one like many others to come) I should stop investing in loans. I''d rather reduce the more daring P2Ps and focus on what I believe has a reasonable risk/return ratio.


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    #1101
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,047 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    RevenueLand wrote: »
    P2p lending is rightly included in the list of rather risky investments.
    Fortunately, sometimes the returns are also well adjusted to the risk.
    I think that if I do not invest "also" in P2P lending during this (or the next) crisis, I am going to reduce my total diversification. If I avoid P2P I will focus more on financial markets, ETFs, Bonds and other instruments that still bring a degree of risk and volatility to my global portfolio.
    So, no, I don't think that during a crisis (this one like many others to come) I should stop investing in loans. I''d rather reduce the more daring P2Ps and focus on what I believe has a reasonable risk/return ratio.

    Except you are not investing in anything, you are an amateur lending your money to subprime borrowers, people the professionals don’t want to touch. You’ve got limited information about the borrower, no ability to enforce the debt, no ability to set the rules and you are the only one of the three players who stand to loose....

    The odds are stacked against you.


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    #1102
    RevenueLand
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭RevenueLand


    Your point of view is interesting, but I don't agree with everything.
    Some European platforms are quite transparent about borrowers and intermediaries.
    I try (with the limited means at my disposal as a private investor) to invest with common sense also in certain P2P lending.
    I succeed with profit and minimal losses for more than 4 years, I don't "claim victory", but I recognize that it's not going bad at all.
    After all, this is a limited part of my global portfolio.

    I enjoy it, even if the odds are ...stacked against me.


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    #1103
    RevenueLand
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭RevenueLand


    Since I don't like late loans I scanned the loan book on Estateguru.

    What I've found out is that some loan types in some counties have been performing better than other.

    The best performing loans by country are:

    Latvia is slightly better for development and business loans
    Estonia is good for Bridge and development loans
    Finland is good for Bridge and development loans
    Lithuania is my best for bridge and business loans

    As I said I'm just an investor, so take what I share with a grain of salt.

    I may be wrong and the study is not scientific.

    ⭕️ The full Estateguru review is on RevenueLand and is updated to 2020


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    #1104
    retalivity
    Registered Users Posts: 14,067 ✭✭✭✭retalivity


    Grupeer resolved their "technical issues" and started crediting investors again, but still cant withdraw. The potential legal action seems to have lit a fire under them


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    #1105
    RevenueLand
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭RevenueLand


    That's good news. I believe (and hope) that a large part of the non-Russian investments are recoverable. The site is still online, if they wanted to escape with the money they would have done it already.


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    #1106
    sKeith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,404 ✭✭✭✭sKeith


    Robocash increases their max deposit limit from €10,000 total to €15,000 per month or €180,000 per year.

    More info: https://bit.ly/2Y6UGjM


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    #1107
    FFVII
    Registered Users Posts: 1,382 ✭✭✭FFVII


    sKeith wrote: »
    Robocash increases their max deposit limit from €10,000 total to €15,000 per month or €180,000 per year.

    More info: https://bit.ly/2Y6UGjM
    hehehe. Not many gonna be going near that.


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    #1108
    Noob Investor
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭Noob Investor


    Kevhog1988 wrote: »
    Is now the time to avoid p2p lending with the uncertainty of covid?

    No, I don't think so. To my knowledge, the lending business model is very agile, which means that they are able to adjust to the demand for loans. Maybe some more loans will default, but I don't think it will be by a game-changing amount.

    Most of the European p2p lending platforms (reference) have been able to scale down operations to match the current environment.


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    #1109
    mountgomery burns
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,148 ✭✭✭mountgomery burns


    Anyone familiar with IBAN wallet?

    I have a family member contemplating using their service. The concern they had was around privacy and sending their identification to them, though I would expect this all falls under GDPR legislation. Would the CBI be able to identify the EMI the platform uses?

    I'm skeptical about P2P lending though these are at least collateralised loans. I am a bit wary of the lack of transparency however as the money is held at an unidentified EMI who in turn use 3rd party underwriters for lending. On the surface doesn't seem like there is a high degree of visibility for the consumer as to where there money ultimately ends up.


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    #1110
    RevenueLand
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭RevenueLand


    One thing I did not like is that last year they moved to Croatia (robocash) without any explanation. Another thing that I do not like is that they do not present statistics (at least to me who am not registered) and that the site is neither in Croatian nor Latvian. I prefer platforms that also offer loans in the language of the countries where they are registered.


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    #1111
    RevenueLand
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭RevenueLand


    mountgomery burns wrote: »
    Anyone familiar with IBAN wallet?

    I have a family member contemplating using their service. The concern they had was around privacy and sending their identification to them, though I would expect this all falls under GDPR legislation. Would the CBI be able to identify the EMI the platform uses?

    I'm skeptical about P2P lending though these are at least collateralised loans. I am a bit wary of the lack of transparency however as the money is held at an unidentified EMI who in turn use 3rd party underwriters for lending. On the surface doesn't seem like there is a high degree of visibility for the consumer as to where there money ultimately ends up.

    ⭕️They say they use P2P loans but they did not disclose yet what loans and who is issuing those loans.
    So you a re right, there is a lack of transparency.
    It's a pity, because lots of investors would use such service to invest hands-free.
    One more issue is the managing team. I've asked to have the LinkedIn accounts of the CEO, COO.
    No answer yet.

    So I went to Lursoft to search for "New Generation Market SIA" (which is supposedly I.W.) and the owner appears to be a french afghan guy.
    Too many mysteries.

    The safeguard fund is also a mystery in size and shape.

    Recently I wrote an extensive ibanwallet review on RevenueLand.

    ⭕️I will wait until I have these answers before performing my test.

    I don't know about privacy question you ask. If you a re worried about if they report to your country or not I'd say "virtually yes", in truth I don't think so.


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