General Election and Government Formation Megathread (see post #1)

ArmaniJeanss · 28-06-2020 01:44PM

Presumably the Junior Ministries will be more evenly spread geographically.
And to be honest these are a lot more important for the ability to get funds to constituencies.
Like Dublin Central will gain pretty much nothing from having the Minister for Finance for another term, as there's little he can do to target funds specifically to one area. Same would apply regardless of what constituency he was from.

But a Junior Minister at Arts or Tourism or Industry with a nice 8 figure budget to distribute is a more valuable prize for a constituency.

So to me seems to be people getting upset over something that doesn't matter.

Chips Lovell · 28-06-2020 01:48PM

Deleted User wrote: »

It shouldn't, buy nearly always does. Your forgetting FF are back in government.

It would be an incredibly short-sighted approach this time around. Given the tripartite nature of the new government, each party has a fairly limited number of cabinet seats. If ministers begin showing largesse to their own constituencies, the party will be punished by the (far more numerous) voters in other constituencies.

There are lots of situations in politics where, whatever you do, someone is going to criticise you. If they'd done the opposite and divvied out the cabinet seats on the basis of geography, they'd have been accused pandering to parish politics rather than selecting the best people for the job, all in the middle of a grave crisis.

In situations like this, where criticism is inevitable, you may as well just do the right thing.

28-06-2020 02:19PM

https://westernpeople.ie/2020/06/28/a-cabinet-fit-for-cromwell/#.XviY0G1KjX5
A CABINET FIT FOR CROMWELL, not an unexpected headline.... maybe a bit dramatic.

jmayo · 28-06-2020 02:56PM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

There's a difference between a printer that can print 100 A4 pages double sided, and a printer that can print a 200 page booklet on glossy paper with a hard cover
and bind it.

Yeah we know the printer that was bought for Leinster House was an industrial scale printer.
Total overkill and a complete fooking joke.
Why oh why do I think someone somewhere did ok out of that little deal.

Deleted User wrote: »

https://westernpeople.ie/2020/06/28/a-cabinet-fit-for-cromwell/#.XviY0G1KjX5
A CABINET FIT FOR CROMWELL, not an unexpected headline.... maybe a bit dramatic.

They do have point that over 1 million people in a region of two major cities, 4 airports, half the size of Ireland has no voting power at cabinet.
And because this is Ireland that is important.

But I guess the two Connacht people at the cabinet meetings can sit there and swallow any decisions that have negative bearing on their region.

Also find it incomprehensible you would not alone shaft your deputy leader, but also give them opportunity to be one enforcing discipline as chief whip.

Would anyone wonder how hard Calleary will work to enforce his leaders will if the cr** is hitting the fan.

Roanmore · 28-06-2020 03:53PM

jmayo wrote: »

sinn fein must be licking their lips as it leaves huge chunk of country with no ministerial post.
And it isn't just about Mayo, it is about entire Western seaboard, bar Kerry, right into Offaly with no one.
It is about population of over 1 million without any minister to represent any of their areas.

Why would SF be licking their lips? They're not in Government so it's not like they can do anything for those regions?
Sure they can turn around and say there are no Ministers in the area but that's going to sound tired after a while.

jmayo · 28-06-2020 04:01PM

Roanmore wrote: »

Why would SF be licking their lips? They're not in Government so it's not like they can do anything for those regions?
Sure they can turn around and say there are no Ministers in the area but that's going to sound tired after a while.

Because they will use argument that it is no use voting for FF or indeed FG, because they don't care about you.
sf was a protest vote for some and it could become a protest vote for even more.

Then add in fact the region with no minister will be one of the ones severely hit by any of the new green taxes that will be dreamt up to try fill government coffers in the years ahead.

Expect FF and FG to get hammering in any election in near future in the West, and that includes all the way from Limerick to Donegal.

Added to that mix is fact leadership of two main parties now are not going to be popular within their own party in whole swath of the country.

AndrewJRenko · 28-06-2020 05:01PM

jmayo wrote: »

Yeah we know the printer that was bought for Leinster House was an industrial scale printer.
Total overkill and a complete fooking joke.
Why oh why do I think someone somewhere did ok out of that little deal.

.

How exactly did you work out that it was total overkill?

Sam Russell · 28-06-2020 05:26PM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

How exactly did you work out that it was total overkill?

Did not Sinn Fein spend a fortune on ink cartridges to print the leaflets? This printer will allow TDs, and Senators to print calendars for all their constituents and it will cost them nothing.

Expect huge amounts of junk mail from your local politician full of Local News, Social Welfare advice, The new tax laws, News about local projects, protest campaigns about new charges, etc etc etc.

This printer can churn them out by the million.

AndrewJRenko · 28-06-2020 10:10PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

Did not Sinn Fein spend a fortune on ink cartridges to print the leaflets? This printer will allow TDs, and Senators to print calendars for all their constituents and it will cost them nothing.

Expect huge amounts of junk mail from your local politician full of Local News, Social Welfare advice, The new tax laws, News about local projects, protest campaigns about new charges, etc etc etc.

This printer can churn them out by the million.

The Sinn Fein toner cartidges is a bit dated at this stage.

As I understand it, the new printer was specced to do the same printing as the old, obsolete printer at lower running cost.

Now we can have a long debate about whether TDs should be printing leaflets, but that's really a different question.

Sam Russell · 28-06-2020 10:46PM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The Sinn Fein toner cartidges is a bit dated at this stage.

It was dated but it was a lot of money wasted. €50,000 on printer cartridges is a lot of cartridges - so I doubt they were for normal TDs use.

awec · 28-06-2020 11:10PM

Don't know if it was already posted but read elsewhere that there is unhappiness in the FF ranks that Calleary got no ministerial position while Donnelly got Health.

Reckon Donnelly was promised a position in exchange for coming aboard?

Water John · 28-06-2020 11:15PM

Calleary is at the Cabinet table. If you sulk like O'Callaghan, you lose.

il gatto · 29-06-2020 06:31AM

hardybuck wrote: »

I think there has to be a realisation that SF didn't appear to enter Government formation talks with anyone, nor where they genuinely interested in doing so. FG led a minority Government for the last four years so they could have done similar.

You can't blame FG and FF for having an objection to SF, both on a policy level and in terms of the darkness which they can't quite shake, and seemingly don't want to. Some of that has to lie at SF's door.

And for all the “biggest party” stuff, they got a vote share well below what the opposition party normally gets. We’ve had FF and FG get 40% and be in opposition. Their messaging has convinced a lot of people because the standard of journalism is abysmal.

il gatto · 29-06-2020 06:54AM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

All the more reason to not give a crap about a particular region for a ministry and break the cycle.

How does it break the cycle? Dublin ministers are just as culpable for pork barrel politics as any other. It just seems to an issue when the ministers are from the sticks. All this will do is make people even more demanding of ministers the next time round.
It shouldn’t matter but it does. Ministers look after their own patch better and not having one for decades retards investment and growth.

29-06-2020 08:54AM

il gatto wrote: »

How does it break the cycle? Dublin ministers are just as culpable for pork barrel politics as any other. It just seems to an issue when the ministers are from the sticks. All this will do is make people even more demanding of ministers the next time round.
It shouldn’t matter but it does. Ministers look after their own patch better and not having one for decades retards investment and growth.

Your faith in politicians and the decisions they make effecting investment and growth in an area is touching.

Things happen despite politicians not because of them, a good example would be when home workign becomes the norm for some individual or at least part home working it may help with reviewing rural decline, it evolved naturally as technology developed and has nothing to do with politicians.

No doubt you will still get politicians demanding a visit from the IDA and new roads because it goes down will with the local base.

29-06-2020 10:03AM

awec wrote: »

Don't know if it was already posted but read elsewhere that there is unhappiness in the FF ranks that Calleary got no ministerial position while Donnelly got Health.

Reckon Donnelly was promised a position in exchange for coming aboard?

Not a good way to start a new government. Regardless of how he feels, he should have kept this quiet for now when speaking to “colleagues” who have been liberally quoted in today’s papers, without names obviously.

Is he considered a future leader and is this MM’s way of keeping him down or is it that he’s skills lie firmly as a “back room boy” and doesn’t have the qualities required for full ministry? Given his longevity and previous junior minister experience and obvious geographic location in west Ireland, it does seem a strange decision

crossman47 · 29-06-2020 10:10AM

I think Donnelly has been given a poisoned chalice. Watch him sink without trace. He has no experience and will be targetted by SF, Soc Dems and Labour.

Wanderer78 · 29-06-2020 10:13AM

crossman47 wrote:

I think Donnelly has been given a poisoned chalice. Watch him sink without trace. He has no experience and will be targetted by SF, Soc Dems and Labour.

Ah he ll be grand

29-06-2020 10:21AM

On reflection, I think the cabinet appointees has been mainly about putting forward a clean slate- it’s not about capability. It’s all about creating distance from previous administrations - new faces means “change”- at least that’s their rationale I’d say- while Calleary only held a junior ministry under Cowan, there’s “history” there of a govt MM certainly doesn’t want to be reminded of- ironic considering his own past history in that government.

We do need though to train up the leaders of the future too- that’s politics and it’s a difficult time so “change” , purely for the optics alone, is probably the key factor in the appointments

awec · 29-06-2020 10:35AM

crossman47 wrote: »

I think Donnelly has been given a poisoned chalice. Watch him sink without trace. He has no experience and will be targetted by SF, Soc Dems and Labour.

Donnelly has certainly talked up a good game on health.

I think FG have played a blinder in landing FF with both the Housing and Health portfolios.

jmayo · 29-06-2020 10:44AM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

How exactly did you work out that it was total overkill?

I should have known you would be along to excuse public funds wastage. :rolleyes:

I do wonder what part of public service you work in.

As was discussed actually on here, the printer bought is for industralised printing.
The type of printing a print shop would be doing, not the houses of the oireachtas.
But carry on telling us what value we get for our taxes.

Water John wrote: »

Calleary is at the Cabinet table. If you sulk like O'Callaghan, you lose.

Wippe he gets to go to the meetings.

He gets to sit at cabinet, hasn't a vote and has no ministry.
He might as well be the note taker.

It is a total slap in the face for him.
And even worse he seems to be given the gig as junior minister at department of an taoiseach.
I hate to use this analogy, but he is now like the King's cupbearer out of Game of Thrones.

Although if Calleary is smart and a real politician he could use his chief whip status to royally shaft Martin down the road.

Then again I don't know if Calleary is that capable. :rolleyes:

blanch152 · 29-06-2020 11:25AM

jmayo wrote: »

I should have known you would be along to excuse public funds wastage. :rolleyes:

I do wonder what part of public service you work in.

As was discussed actually on here, the printer bought is for industralised printing.
The type of printing a print shop would be doing, not the houses of the oireachtas.
But carry on telling us what value we get for our taxes.

Wippe he gets to go to the meetings.

He gets to sit at cabinet, hasn't a vote and has no ministry.
He might as well be the note taker.

It is a total slap in the face for him.
And even worse he seems to be given the gig as junior minister at department of an taoiseach.
I hate to use this analogy, but he is now like the King's cupbearer out of Game of Thrones.

Although if Calleary is smart and a real politician he could use his chief whip status to royally shaft Martin down the road.

Then again I don't know if Calleary is that capable. :rolleyes:

Having a vote isn't as important as you think at the cabinet table, but having a voice, which he does, most certainly is.

jmayo · 29-06-2020 12:00PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Having a vote isn't as important as you think at the cabinet table, but having a voice, which he does, most certainly is.

So does your wan from Galway, but it still isn't the same.
Optics can mean a lot.

You can try spin any way you want, or any way that FG wants

, it is a slap in the face for Calleary.

FFS he is the junior in Martin's department.

How much more humiliating than that can you get.

If Calleary has a backbone he will knife Martin first chance he gets.

BTW seen as you seem to be in the know, what departmental supports does Chief Whip get?
Other ministers get advisers, their own personal ones, other departments have a whole slew of civil servants.
What does the Chief Whip get?

29-06-2020 12:10PM

https://westernpeople.ie/2020/06/29/emotional-calleary-recounts-very-difficult-conversation-with-micheal-martin/#.XvnMDG1KjX4

He was interviewed on local radio this morning.

Very bad start for MM, the knives are out for him already in almost half the country and thats just FF supporters.

Seth Brundle · 29-06-2020 12:20PM

I'd say Leo and FG are delighted that FF have walked themselves into an internal dispute over who gets the top jobs

Bass Reeves · 29-06-2020 01:49PM

awec wrote: »

Don't know if it was already posted but read elsewhere that there is unhappiness in the FF ranks that Calleary got no ministerial position while Donnelly got Health.

Reckon Donnelly was promised a position in exchange for coming aboard?

Calleary is one of a number of FF TD's that cost the party seats. They polled too strong and did not split there vote with running mates add Niall Collins and O'Dea to this list in this election and the last one. Until FF start to be ruthless with these individuals who consider there constituency's as personnel fifedoms then they will always struggle to maximize there vote to seats ratio

maynooth_rules · 29-06-2020 01:54PM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

I'd say Leo and FG are delighted that FF have walked themselves into an internal dispute over who gets the top jobs

Particularly when it easily should have been FG in this position. Leo had to essentially sack half the cabinet, Martin has an open goal.
My guess is to prevent the sexism card, he picked Foley when he should have had Calleary

jmayo · 29-06-2020 02:37PM

maynooth_rules wrote: »

Particularly when it easily should have been FG in this position. Leo had to essentially sack half the cabinet, Martin has an open goal.
My guess is to prevent the sexism card, he picked Foley when he should have had Calleary

It might play well to the medja and on twitter, but it alienates a lot of grass roots and not just in Mayo.
The second in command, the guy a TD for 13 years including holding his seat in slaughter of 2011, the guy who was part of the negotiating team for the formation of government left out so that someone that is in the Dail for a few months gets the kick.

I guess it just shows Martin for the muppet he is.

Himself and Leo will make a great pair altogether.

Leonard Hofstadter · 29-06-2020 03:58PM

maynooth_rules wrote: »

Particularly when it easily should have been FG in this position. Leo had to essentially sack half the cabinet, Martin has an open goal.
My guess is to prevent the sexism card, he picked Foley when he should have had Calleary

He should have picked Rabbitte if that was his concern, would deal with the 'no Senior Minister West of the Shannon' issue straight away. It's even more surprising when she was one of the FF negotiators for the programme for Government.

Itssoeasy · 29-06-2020 04:23PM

jmayo wrote: »

So does your wan from Galway, but it still isn't the same.
Optics can mean a lot.

You can try spin any way you want, or any way that FG wants , it is a slap in the face for Calleary.

FFS he is the junior in Martin's department.

How much more humiliating than that can you get.

If Calleary has a backbone he will knife Martin first chance he gets.

BTW seen as you seem to be in the know, what departmental supports does Chief Whip get?
Other ministers get advisers, their own personal ones, other departments have a whole slew of civil servants.
What does the Chief Whip get?

Why would FG need to spin something that MM made a balls of. Watching Dara Calleary in the convention centre on Saturday evening, you could tell by the body language and head on him that he was pissed. I mean you'd have to wonder how a deputy leader of FF isn't a government minister. I don't normally feel sorry of politicians but even I felt sorry for him.

General Election and Government Formation Megathread (see post #1)

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