FF/FG/Green Next Government

Shefwedfan · 27-06-2020 02:08PM

fr336 wrote: »

It'd be like when David Cameron used to cycle to parliament to prove his environmental credentials before his car carrying his paperwork followed 5 minutes later.

I think you find no matter what transport the politicians use they have have a proterction car behind them. So instead of 2 cars they only have 1, they are not allowed travel in same vehicle either for obvious reasons

27-06-2020 02:08PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/election-2020-miche%C3%A1l-martin-rules-out-fianna-f%C3%A1il-fine-gael-grand-coalition-1.4149063

Don’t see any faithful pledge there.

ExMachina1000 · 27-06-2020 02:09PM

Do irish Parton announce plans for what they will do once in power to do they just tumble along from one failure and scandal to the next?

Any plans? Any word?

Shefwedfan · 27-06-2020 02:10PM

This is it wrote: »

You have a low threshold for humor.

Anyway. Not overjoyed with MM in the hot seat, I believe Leo did a good job and look forward to seeing him back there soon. There are obvious things that need fixing in the country and I hope all parties, government and opposition can work to sort out the likes of housing and health, amongst others.

Thays the plan I would think

Shefwedfan · 27-06-2020 02:11PM

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Do irish Parton announce plans for what they will do once in power to do they just tumble along from one failure and scandal to the next?

Any plans? Any word?

Theuy released a 100+ page documemt called program for governmemt

Mortelaro · 27-06-2020 02:13PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

TBF to everyone...people knew in January he was lying.

You cannot lie about the future because it hasn't happened yet

ExMachina1000 · 27-06-2020 02:13PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Theuy released a 100+ page documemt called program for governmemt

Anything realistic?

Remember the time fg announced the Ireland 2040 plan. Also not realistic

FrancieBrady · 27-06-2020 02:16PM

Mortelaro wrote: »

You cannot lie about the future because it hasn't happened yet

You keep saying this. And it is evidence that you are so used to being lied to that you have come up with ridiculous excuses for it.

Martin lied, we all knew at the time it was a lie and a lie it was. He is now in coalition with FG.

Loafing Oaf · 27-06-2020 02:17PM

Mortelaro wrote: »

You cannot lie about the future because it hasn't happened yet

Ruling something out in any and all circumstances and then going ahead and doing it is a form of lying in most people's eyes.

Shefwedfan · 27-06-2020 02:18PM

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Anything realistic?

Remember the time fg announced the Ireland 2040 plan. Also not realistic

lots of good things, only a few hours in so hard to tell how successful it will be

ExMachina1000 · 27-06-2020 02:20PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

lots of good things, only a few hours in so hard to tell how successful it will be

Right fair enough. I take it Ireland 2040 project is abandoned so. New plan.

Snow Garden · 27-06-2020 02:23PM

The Fine Gael New Politics document from 2011 is always a great read

Fine Gael’s starting point is simple: political failure lies at the heart of Ireland’s economic collapse. The finger of responsibility must, in the first instance, point directly to the massive policy failures of the recent Fianna-Fail led Governments and their willingness to promote the interests of a so-called “Golden Circle” over the interests of the Citizen. Under Fianna Fail a political culture developed which ensured that the bankers and the developers were not dealt with before it was too late. A culture which tolerates cosy cartels and high costs in the private sector and ignores the need for radical reform in the public sector.

However, it is also clear that several key weaknesses in Ireland’s political system facilitated the failures of the last twelve years. In particular:

• A proliferation of State agencies and Quangos that answer to no one and a model of Social Partnership which effectively excluded the Dáil; and

Fine Gael’s New Politics tackles all of these weaknesses head-on and will restore people’s trust in the political process by delivering real, tangible change.

As part of the New Politics Fine Gael will deliver:
• A single chamber Oireachtas with no Second House.
• A reduction in the number of TDs in the Dáil by 20.
• A significantly strengthened Dáil committee system that holds Government to account

The expressions “Golden Circle”, “Crony Government” and “Cosy Capitalism” all describe the same thing: The abduction of our Republic by both public and private sector vested interests, aided and abetted by the present Government.

Professor Moriarty · 27-06-2020 02:23PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You keep saying this. And it is evidence that you are so used to being lied to that you have come up with ridiculous excuses for it.

Martin lied, we all knew at the time it was a lie and a lie it was. He is now in coalition with FG.

Everybody lied. Everybody's manifesto was unicorns and rainbows. The world has changed utterly since the election. Martin is doing the right thing by going into government in a coalition that will bring the stability this country needs. Especially as Ireland deals with a pandemic, Brexit and an economic crash.

Shefwedfan · 27-06-2020 02:24PM

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Right fair enough. I take it Ireland 2040 project is abandoned so. New plan.

I don’t know

Some programs will continue, Irish not as stupid as US and throw out all the work done by previous government

ExMachina1000 · 27-06-2020 02:25PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I don’t know

Some programs will continue, Irish not as stupid as US and throw out all the work done by previous government

The budget doesn't cover multiple plans. Cant go in different directions. Plan abandoned

FrancieBrady · 27-06-2020 02:26PM

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Ruling something out in any and all circumstances and then going ahead and doing it is a form of lying in most people's eyes.

Imagine using Mort's phrase as an excuse for not paying your mortgage.

The judge:

judge-looking-incredulous-picture-id537861442?k=6&m=537861442&s=170667a&w=0&h=vit1PspLVk3CHifO9KL9mCAD0mVraz1Drxmoa3iT5E4=

namloc1980 · 27-06-2020 02:27PM

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Ruling something out in any and all circumstances and then going ahead and doing it is a form of lying in most people's eyes.

That's just silly. Most people who deal with others in working life or socially say things that they ultimately need to compromise on. This notion that politicians must be bound to what they said at some point in the past and cannot move their position is just extremely silly and massively naive.

namloc1980 · 27-06-2020 02:28PM

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

The budget doesn't cover multiple plans. Cant go in different directions. Plan abandoned

The government isn't even formed fully yet. :rolleyes: Some very silly takes on here at the moment.

FrancieBrady · 27-06-2020 02:29PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

That's just silly. Most people who deal with others in working life or socially say things that they ultimately need to compromise on. This notion that politicians must be bound to what they said at some point in the past and cannot move their position is just extremely silly and massively naive.

Most honest politician's don't say what Martin said for that reason.

Martin lied about SF and FG. He would have done a deal with either if it was politically expedient.

ExMachina1000 · 27-06-2020 02:32PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

The government isn't even formed fully yet. :rolleyes: Some very silly takes on here at the moment.

Is Ireland 2040 mentioned in the program for government?
I haven't read it

Professor Moriarty · 27-06-2020 02:33PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Most honest politician's don't say what Martin said for that reason.

Martin lied about SF and FG. He would have done a deal with either if it was politically expedient.

The world has changed completely since the election. To quote Keynes, when the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do?

FrancieBrady · 27-06-2020 02:36PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

The world has changed completely since the election. To quote Keynes, when the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do?

Look, you can pretend all you like that this kind of lying doesn't go on before every election.

It was a lie to gain votes. We knew it at the time and we know it for certain now.

It's annoying because his similar vow 'to not go in with SF' is touted as some sort of moral code he has.

He opened the door to them when he thought he had enough seats to ensure he got the the Taoiseach gig first.

He lied...stop using a pandemic to excuse it.

namloc1980 · 27-06-2020 02:39PM

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Is Ireland 2040 mentioned in the program for government?
I haven't read it

Yes multiple times. Why are you making big sweeping statements about the PfG and then saying you actually haven't read it?! :pac:

ExMachina1000 · 27-06-2020 02:40PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

Yes multiple times. Why are you making big sweeping statements about the PfG and then saying you actually haven't read it?! :pac:

Oh ok. Can you link me to the mention of Ireland 2040 in the programme. Thanks

Bannasidhe · 27-06-2020 02:40PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

And the numbers didn't work out and the crisis we're in was unforeseen. Personally I prefer politicians who can reflect on reality and compromise their position, as opposed to those who dogmatically insist on immoveable ideology.

Which would have included talking to SF.
So in some instances the ideology was immovable and dogmatically insisted upon.

If they had talked and been unable to reach an agreement fair enough. But refusing outright to enter negotiations combined with guff about SF being 'unfit' was dogmatic ideology at its worst and an insult to the mandate which, like it or not, SF received from the electorate.

FF and FG do not get to decide who is and is not 'fit' - especially when they seek the support of the likes of Lowry. If they can accept Lowry has a mandate- they can accept SF have one. And going on number of seats a stronger one than FG.

And once again before the 'shinnerbot' BS starts I did not give SF even a preference vote. I did give the Greens one and even though not elected that candidate spoke out against the PfG.

Professor Moriarty · 27-06-2020 02:45PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Look, you can pretend all you like that this kind of lying doesn't go on before every election.

It was a lie to gain votes. We knew it at the time and we know it for certain now.

It's annoying because his similar vow 'to not go in with SF' is touted as some sort of moral code he has.

He opened the door to them when he thought he had enough seats to ensure he got the the Taoiseach gig first.

He lied...stop using a pandemic to excuse it.

SF promised to build 100,000 council houses over five years at a cost of 6.5 billion. Good intentions just like Martin's good intentions. Had they got into government, that wasn't going to happen. Especially after the pandemic. So that would have been a lie. See how it works?

ExMachina1000 · 27-06-2020 02:47PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

SF promised to build 100,000 council houses over five years at a cost of 6.5 billion. Good intentions just like Martin's good intentions. Had they got into government, that wasn't going to happen. Especially after the pandemic. So that would have been a lie. See how it works?

The greens want to spend 1.8 billion over 5 years on cycling.

That 1.8 billion would be better spent on housing

Professor Moriarty · 27-06-2020 02:49PM

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

The greens want to spend 1.8 billion over 5 years on cycling.

That 1.8 billion would be better spent on housing

Depends on how important you think climate change is versus housing.

is_that_so · 27-06-2020 02:49PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Which would have included talking to SF.
So in some instances the ideology was immovable and dogmatically insisted upon.

If they had talked and been unable to reach an agreement fair enough. But refusing outright to enter negotiations combined with guff about SF being 'unfit' was dogmatic ideology at its worst and an insult to the mandate which, like it or not, SF received from the electorate.

FF and FG do not get to decide who is and is not 'fit' - especially when they seek the support of the likes of Lowry. If they can accept Lowry has a mandate- they can accept SF have one. And going on number of seats a stronger one than FG.

And once again before the 'shinnerbot' BS starts I did not give SF even a preference vote. I did give the Greens one and even though not elected that candidate spoke out against the PfG.

No party is obliged to consider or talk to another one as a potential Coalition partner. FG with SF would neither work nor be approved so there's no point indulging in the pretence of being all-inclusive. Labour and SDs declined to get involved and for all the the victimisation claims from SF they couldn't get the numbers is why they are in opposition.

Loafing Oaf · 27-06-2020 02:50PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Most honest politician's don't say what Martin said for that reason.

Martin lied about SF and FG.

Pat Rabbitte showed how to walk this line in the runup to the 2007 general election. He needed to leave the door ajar to an FF-Labour deal as it was widely expected to be the only feasible government lineup after the election. So he absolutely lambasted FF in every interview, without ever - quite - ruling out going into government with them. The voters got the message. If he was a man of integrity Martin would have found a way to do the same re one or both of FG and SF.

FF/FG/Green Next Government

Comments